Violence in Kindergarten- Sligo Creek Elementary

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And the person who was injured yesterday and has staples in her head is a paraeducator, not a classroom teacher.

Then she wasn't doing her job, assuming she was in room to help with that student.

If, of course, any part of this story is true at all.

What in the f?

Why would you assume she was in the room as a 1:1 to that student?

Why would you assume that someone doing their job as a 1:1 aide can’t be harmed by a kid?

Are we all living on the same planet where a 6 year old shot a teacher last year or were you at your home base on Mars for that?

Why? Because MCPS's standard for getting a 1:1 is far less than what has been described in this thread.

And an adult that is paying attention should be more than capable of preventing a 6 year old from obtaining and throwing an apparently heavy object. Again, if this story is actually a true story, which seems less and less likely.

You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. You think it is so easy that you stand next to the child and say -no, please stop, go back to your seat - and the out of control child automatically follows your directions?

That’s not how it works -you are trying to block getting bitten, kicked and hit at the same time to you are trying to prevent other kids from being attacked. You can’t physically restrain the out of control child like you could your own son or daughter. You really can’t touch the out of control child either. How do you prevent the child from obtaining heavy objects when the room is literally full of heavy objects. So the kid picks up a chair and you grab the chair, then get kicked in the shins at the same time and try not to fall over or get kicked again or stomped on. Meanwhile the kid rushes away from you and grabs a stapler and chucks it. Or a water bottle or heavy book. Or a pencil and tries to poke another kid.

It’s ridiculous you think it is so easy and keep denying teachers and staff members are being seriously assaulted all over the country by elementary aged students.

Very creative. But again, we're talking about a kindergartener. An adult assigned to a child should be able to prevent that child from obtaining and throwing an object like a water bottle. And a good paraeducator would be able to guide the child to calming strategies before a situation escalates to that level. That's literally the job.

You never answered the question how the adult prevents the child from obtaining an object. You can't restrain the child in any way, so don't include that in your answer. Teachers have been seriously injured by kindergarten and first grade students. you magically think someone getting paid $18 an hour is a kindergarten whisperer who is going to calm the student down when no one else can? You have very obviously never seen a raging out of control student and/or you are an administrator who does an awful job or parent who thinks your child can do no wrong.

This is the type of gaslighting from administrators and parents of out of control kids that make special education teachers and general education teachers quit
Administrators who tell teachers-
if you only build a relationship with the kid, he or she wouldn't have bashed you in the head with a water bottle, so the 8 staples in your head is basically your fault.
Oh it's just a kindergarten student, they don't kick that hard or bite that deeply.
What did you do to make the student so upset? You should let him have whatever he wants.
Why aren't you calming the student down, you should be able to do that before the student escalates
Why aren't you providing the student with rewards (of course they are never provided by the school, the teacher has to spend his or her own money)?

Really?

You grab it before they do. Or take it away from them before they throw it.

It's time for you to retire.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And the person who was injured yesterday and has staples in her head is a paraeducator, not a classroom teacher.

Then she wasn't doing her job, assuming she was in room to help with that student.

If, of course, any part of this story is true at all.

What in the f?

Why would you assume she was in the room as a 1:1 to that student?

Why would you assume that someone doing their job as a 1:1 aide can’t be harmed by a kid?

Are we all living on the same planet where a 6 year old shot a teacher last year or were you at your home base on Mars for that?

Why? Because MCPS's standard for getting a 1:1 is far less than what has been described in this thread.

And an adult that is paying attention should be more than capable of preventing a 6 year old from obtaining and throwing an apparently heavy object. Again, if this story is actually a true story, which seems less and less likely.

You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. You think it is so easy that you stand next to the child and say -no, please stop, go back to your seat - and the out of control child automatically follows your directions?

That’s not how it works -you are trying to block getting bitten, kicked and hit at the same time to you are trying to prevent other kids from being attacked. You can’t physically restrain the out of control child like you could your own son or daughter. You really can’t touch the out of control child either. How do you prevent the child from obtaining heavy objects when the room is literally full of heavy objects. So the kid picks up a chair and you grab the chair, then get kicked in the shins at the same time and try not to fall over or get kicked again or stomped on. Meanwhile the kid rushes away from you and grabs a stapler and chucks it. Or a water bottle or heavy book. Or a pencil and tries to poke another kid.

It’s ridiculous you think it is so easy and keep denying teachers and staff members are being seriously assaulted all over the country by elementary aged students.

Very creative. But again, we're talking about a kindergartener. An adult assigned to a child should be able to prevent that child from obtaining and throwing an object like a water bottle. And a good paraeducator would be able to guide the child to calming strategies before a situation escalates to that level. That's literally the job.

You never answered the question how the adult prevents the child from obtaining an object. You can't restrain the child in any way, so don't include that in your answer. Teachers have been seriously injured by kindergarten and first grade students. you magically think someone getting paid $18 an hour is a kindergarten whisperer who is going to calm the student down when no one else can? You have very obviously never seen a raging out of control student and/or you are an administrator who does an awful job or parent who thinks your child can do no wrong.

This is the type of gaslighting from administrators and parents of out of control kids that make special education teachers and general education teachers quit
Administrators who tell teachers-
if you only build a relationship with the kid, he or she wouldn't have bashed you in the head with a water bottle, so the 8 staples in your head is basically your fault.
Oh it's just a kindergarten student, they don't kick that hard or bite that deeply.
What did you do to make the student so upset? You should let him have whatever he wants.
Why aren't you calming the student down, you should be able to do that before the student escalates
Why aren't you providing the student with rewards (of course they are never provided by the school, the teacher has to spend his or her own money)?

Just to underscore, a kid without an IEP also doesn't have a restraint and seclusion plan. No one can touch the child without one, even to protect the child from himself.

[Anonymous]

But if you grab it from them, you might hurt their arm. And it’s “just” a water bottle, which is property, and we are not supposed to intervene until someone is in physical danger. So the kid has to swing/throw the thing to trigger the condition allowing us to grab it, at which point we have to have superhero reflexes to put ourselves between the bottle and whatever it’s being hurled/swung at.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wow OP, I had no idea this was happening. I was hoping my child would get a spot in their French immersion, but now I'm not so sure.

Unfortunately, this can happen at any MCPS ES. Current conditions have led to an uptick in violence in our schools and nobody in a leadership position wants to fix the issues or implement solid discipline (because of equity issues).

What exactly are those "current conditions" ?

The current belief that integrating disturbed, disruptive, and violent children with non-disruptive, well behaved children will magically improve outcomes.

Silly laws protecting kids with disabilities. Why don't we just send them straight to prison?

If you were the parent of a neurotypical student on the receiving end of violence you would stop spouting off like this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wow OP, I had no idea this was happening. I was hoping my child would get a spot in their French immersion, but now I'm not so sure.

Unfortunately, this can happen at any MCPS ES. Current conditions have led to an uptick in violence in our schools and nobody in a leadership position wants to fix the issues or implement solid discipline (because of equity issues).

What exactly are those "current conditions" ?

The current belief that integrating disturbed, disruptive, and violent children with non-disruptive, well behaved children will magically improve outcomes.

Silly laws protecting kids with disabilities. Why don't we just send them straight to prison?

They need to be sent somewhere.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:But if you grab it from them, you might hurt their arm. And it’s “just” a water bottle, which is property, and we are not supposed to intervene until someone is in physical danger. So the kid has to swing/throw the thing to trigger the condition allowing us to grab it, at which point we have to have superhero reflexes to put ourselves between the bottle and whatever it’s being hurled/swung at.

Sure, Jan. Or you could retire, since you clearly lack the common sense necessary to be around kids.

[Anonymous]

I truly cannot understand the patent defense of violent children- disabled or not- throughout this thread.

As a special education teacher I can promise you, the ‘everyone in gen Ed’ model is not only failing students, it’s creating real and lifelong trauma. To the student and their peers.

What a gross oversimplification to think that putting those kids in a more restrictive program is comparable to prison or that if only their needs were met, or mental health provided- that this would get better.

It won’t. Real harm is happening. and all these keyboard warriors who have never taught, or been on a crisis team, should spend less time typing and more time volunteering at their kids schools. Or better yet- go volunteer at a title I school, where families can’t afford an advocate and so students don’t even have a chance at receiving appropriate services and supports.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And the person who was injured yesterday and has staples in her head is a paraeducator, not a classroom teacher.

Then she wasn't doing her job, assuming she was in room to help with that student.

If, of course, any part of this story is true at all.

What in the f?

Why would you assume she was in the room as a 1:1 to that student?

Why would you assume that someone doing their job as a 1:1 aide can’t be harmed by a kid?

Are we all living on the same planet where a 6 year old shot a teacher last year or were you at your home base on Mars for that?

Why? Because MCPS's standard for getting a 1:1 is far less than what has been described in this thread.

And an adult that is paying attention should be more than capable of preventing a 6 year old from obtaining and throwing an apparently heavy object. Again, if this story is actually a true story, which seems less and less likely.

You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. You think it is so easy that you stand next to the child and say -no, please stop, go back to your seat - and the out of control child automatically follows your directions?

That’s not how it works -you are trying to block getting bitten, kicked and hit at the same time to you are trying to prevent other kids from being attacked. You can’t physically restrain the out of control child like you could your own son or daughter. You really can’t touch the out of control child either. How do you prevent the child from obtaining heavy objects when the room is literally full of heavy objects. So the kid picks up a chair and you grab the chair, then get kicked in the shins at the same time and try not to fall over or get kicked again or stomped on. Meanwhile the kid rushes away from you and grabs a stapler and chucks it. Or a water bottle or heavy book. Or a pencil and tries to poke another kid.

It’s ridiculous you think it is so easy and keep denying teachers and staff members are being seriously assaulted all over the country by elementary aged students.

Very creative. But again, we're talking about a kindergartener. An adult assigned to a child should be able to prevent that child from obtaining and throwing an object like a water bottle. And a good paraeducator would be able to guide the child to calming strategies before a situation escalates to that level. That's literally the job.

You never answered the question how the adult prevents the child from obtaining an object. You can't restrain the child in any way, so don't include that in your answer. Teachers have been seriously injured by kindergarten and first grade students. you magically think someone getting paid $18 an hour is a kindergarten whisperer who is going to calm the student down when no one else can? You have very obviously never seen a raging out of control student and/or you are an administrator who does an awful job or parent who thinks your child can do no wrong.

This is the type of gaslighting from administrators and parents of out of control kids that make special education teachers and general education teachers quit
Administrators who tell teachers-
if you only build a relationship with the kid, he or she wouldn't have bashed you in the head with a water bottle, so the 8 staples in your head is basically your fault.
Oh it's just a kindergarten student, they don't kick that hard or bite that deeply.
What did you do to make the student so upset? You should let him have whatever he wants.
Why aren't you calming the student down, you should be able to do that before the student escalates
Why aren't you providing the student with rewards (of course they are never provided by the school, the teacher has to spend his or her own money)?

Really?

You grab it before they do. Or take it away from them before they throw it.

It's time for you to retire.

Best-case scenario, you’re a troll. Worst case, you’re the parent of one of these chair-throwers and inclined to blame the teachers for it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I truly cannot understand the patent defense of violent children- disabled or not- throughout this thread.

As a special education teacher I can promise you, the ‘everyone in gen Ed’ model is not only failing students, it’s creating real and lifelong trauma. To the student and their peers.

What a gross oversimplification to think that putting those kids in a more restrictive program is comparable to prison or that if only their needs were met, or mental health provided- that this would get better.

It won’t. Real harm is happening. and all these keyboard warriors who have never taught, or been on a crisis team, should spend less time typing and more time volunteering at their kids schools. Or better yet- go volunteer at a title I school, where families can’t afford an advocate and so students don’t even have a chance at receiving appropriate services and supports.

And those kids are going to be even worse off in a self-contained program where the teachers don't even try to teach the curriculum and where they regularly refuse meetings with the IEP team. At least in gen-ed there are others that have an incentive to address the problem.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I truly cannot understand the patent defense of violent children- disabled or not- throughout this thread.

As a special education teacher I can promise you, the ‘everyone in gen Ed’ model is not only failing students, it’s creating real and lifelong trauma. To the student and their peers.

What a gross oversimplification to think that putting those kids in a more restrictive program is comparable to prison or that if only their needs were met, or mental health provided- that this would get better.

It won’t. Real harm is happening. and all these keyboard warriors who have never taught, or been on a crisis team, should spend less time typing and more time volunteering at their kids schools. Or better yet- go volunteer at a title I school, where families can’t afford an advocate and so students don’t even have a chance at receiving appropriate services and supports.

New to the thread
Your last sentence is key. Don’t send your kids to title 1 if you can avoid it.
Ask me how I know.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I truly cannot understand the patent defense of violent children- disabled or not- throughout this thread.

As a special education teacher I can promise you, the ‘everyone in gen Ed’ model is not only failing students, it’s creating real and lifelong trauma. To the student and their peers.

What a gross oversimplification to think that putting those kids in a more restrictive program is comparable to prison or that if only their needs were met, or mental health provided- that this would get better.

It won’t. Real harm is happening. and all these keyboard warriors who have never taught, or been on a crisis team, should spend less time typing and more time volunteering at their kids schools. Or better yet- go volunteer at a title I school, where families can’t afford an advocate and so students don’t even have a chance at receiving appropriate services and supports.

Who is more culpable? The 6-year-old child with disabilities? Or the school system with a $3.2 billion budget that refuses to provide the necessary supports to create a safe and effective educational environment?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And the person who was injured yesterday and has staples in her head is a paraeducator, not a classroom teacher.

Then she wasn't doing her job, assuming she was in room to help with that student.

If, of course, any part of this story is true at all.

What in the f?

Why would you assume she was in the room as a 1:1 to that student?

Why would you assume that someone doing their job as a 1:1 aide can’t be harmed by a kid?

Are we all living on the same planet where a 6 year old shot a teacher last year or were you at your home base on Mars for that?

Why? Because MCPS's standard for getting a 1:1 is far less than what has been described in this thread.

And an adult that is paying attention should be more than capable of preventing a 6 year old from obtaining and throwing an apparently heavy object. Again, if this story is actually a true story, which seems less and less likely.

You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. You think it is so easy that you stand next to the child and say -no, please stop, go back to your seat - and the out of control child automatically follows your directions?

That’s not how it works -you are trying to block getting bitten, kicked and hit at the same time to you are trying to prevent other kids from being attacked. You can’t physically restrain the out of control child like you could your own son or daughter. You really can’t touch the out of control child either. How do you prevent the child from obtaining heavy objects when the room is literally full of heavy objects. So the kid picks up a chair and you grab the chair, then get kicked in the shins at the same time and try not to fall over or get kicked again or stomped on. Meanwhile the kid rushes away from you and grabs a stapler and chucks it. Or a water bottle or heavy book. Or a pencil and tries to poke another kid.

It’s ridiculous you think it is so easy and keep denying teachers and staff members are being seriously assaulted all over the country by elementary aged students.

Very creative. But again, we're talking about a kindergartener. An adult assigned to a child should be able to prevent that child from obtaining and throwing an object like a water bottle. And a good paraeducator would be able to guide the child to calming strategies before a situation escalates to that level. That's literally the job.

Since it’s so easy you try it.

I didn't say it was easy-- I said it was the job. Unfortunately, MCPS does a terrible job training paraeducators, and makes minimal efforts to appropriately pair paraeducators with students based on their skills and needs.

Why are you so determined to underplay this, or blame the victims? I'm flummoxed about your motivations here.

I can only imagine it is the parent of such a child. The parent refuses to fully accept that their child has serious problems and should not be in a mainstream class. They believe their kid should be in a mainstream class because they don’t want their kid in a special school with “those types of kids”. They do t accept their kid is one of “those types of kids”. They’ll blame everyone but themselves and their kid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And the person who was injured yesterday and has staples in her head is a paraeducator, not a classroom teacher.

Then she wasn't doing her job, assuming she was in room to help with that student.

If, of course, any part of this story is true at all.

What in the f?

Why would you assume she was in the room as a 1:1 to that student?

Why would you assume that someone doing their job as a 1:1 aide can’t be harmed by a kid?

Are we all living on the same planet where a 6 year old shot a teacher last year or were you at your home base on Mars for that?

Why? Because MCPS's standard for getting a 1:1 is far less than what has been described in this thread.

And an adult that is paying attention should be more than capable of preventing a 6 year old from obtaining and throwing an apparently heavy object. Again, if this story is actually a true story, which seems less and less likely.

You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. You think it is so easy that you stand next to the child and say -no, please stop, go back to your seat - and the out of control child automatically follows your directions?

That’s not how it works -you are trying to block getting bitten, kicked and hit at the same time to you are trying to prevent other kids from being attacked. You can’t physically restrain the out of control child like you could your own son or daughter. You really can’t touch the out of control child either. How do you prevent the child from obtaining heavy objects when the room is literally full of heavy objects. So the kid picks up a chair and you grab the chair, then get kicked in the shins at the same time and try not to fall over or get kicked again or stomped on. Meanwhile the kid rushes away from you and grabs a stapler and chucks it. Or a water bottle or heavy book. Or a pencil and tries to poke another kid.

It’s ridiculous you think it is so easy and keep denying teachers and staff members are being seriously assaulted all over the country by elementary aged students.

Very creative. But again, we're talking about a kindergartener. An adult assigned to a child should be able to prevent that child from obtaining and throwing an object like a water bottle. And a good paraeducator would be able to guide the child to calming strategies before a situation escalates to that level. That's literally the job.

Since it’s so easy you try it.

I didn't say it was easy-- I said it was the job. Unfortunately, MCPS does a terrible job training paraeducators, and makes minimal efforts to appropriately pair paraeducators with students based on their skills and needs.

Why are you so determined to underplay this, or blame the victims? I'm flummoxed about your motivations here.

I can only imagine it is the parent of such a child. The parent refuses to fully accept that their child has serious problems and should not be in a mainstream class. They believe their kid should be in a mainstream class because they don’t want their kid in a special school with “those types of kids”. They do t accept their kid is one of “those types of kids”. They’ll blame everyone but themselves and their kid.

Complain all you want, but until and unless the self-contained programs significantly improve, parents of kids with special needs will continue to want their kids in gen-ed. And the law is on their side.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And the person who was injured yesterday and has staples in her head is a paraeducator, not a classroom teacher.

Then she wasn't doing her job, assuming she was in room to help with that student.

If, of course, any part of this story is true at all.

What in the f?

Why would you assume she was in the room as a 1:1 to that student?

Why would you assume that someone doing their job as a 1:1 aide can’t be harmed by a kid?

Are we all living on the same planet where a 6 year old shot a teacher last year or were you at your home base on Mars for that?

Why? Because MCPS's standard for getting a 1:1 is far less than what has been described in this thread.

And an adult that is paying attention should be more than capable of preventing a 6 year old from obtaining and throwing an apparently heavy object. Again, if this story is actually a true story, which seems less and less likely.

You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. You think it is so easy that you stand next to the child and say -no, please stop, go back to your seat - and the out of control child automatically follows your directions?

That’s not how it works -you are trying to block getting bitten, kicked and hit at the same time to you are trying to prevent other kids from being attacked. You can’t physically restrain the out of control child like you could your own son or daughter. You really can’t touch the out of control child either. How do you prevent the child from obtaining heavy objects when the room is literally full of heavy objects. So the kid picks up a chair and you grab the chair, then get kicked in the shins at the same time and try not to fall over or get kicked again or stomped on. Meanwhile the kid rushes away from you and grabs a stapler and chucks it. Or a water bottle or heavy book. Or a pencil and tries to poke another kid.

It’s ridiculous you think it is so easy and keep denying teachers and staff members are being seriously assaulted all over the country by elementary aged students.

Very creative. But again, we're talking about a kindergartener. An adult assigned to a child should be able to prevent that child from obtaining and throwing an object like a water bottle. And a good paraeducator would be able to guide the child to calming strategies before a situation escalates to that level. That's literally the job.

You never answered the question how the adult prevents the child from obtaining an object. You can't restrain the child in any way, so don't include that in your answer. Teachers have been seriously injured by kindergarten and first grade students. you magically think someone getting paid $18 an hour is a kindergarten whisperer who is going to calm the student down when no one else can? You have very obviously never seen a raging out of control student and/or you are an administrator who does an awful job or parent who thinks your child can do no wrong.

This is the type of gaslighting from administrators and parents of out of control kids that make special education teachers and general education teachers quit
Administrators who tell teachers-
if you only build a relationship with the kid, he or she wouldn't have bashed you in the head with a water bottle, so the 8 staples in your head is basically your fault.
Oh it's just a kindergarten student, they don't kick that hard or bite that deeply.
What did you do to make the student so upset? You should let him have whatever he wants.
Why aren't you calming the student down, you should be able to do that before the student escalates
Why aren't you providing the student with rewards (of course they are never provided by the school, the teacher has to spend his or her own money)?

Really?

You grab it before they do. Or take it away from them before they throw it.

It's time for you to retire.

NP. Surely you're aware that there are ~25 kids in these classrooms. There's no way a teacher is grabbing something away if she's across the room. Are you always this obtuse? I suggest you spend some time volunteering in the classroom to see what the realities are.

Oh, and as teachers retire, there isn't a fresh crop to replace them. Think about that for a minute.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have a hard time believing most kindergarteners have the strength to throw a full metal water bottle to the height of a teacher

I find this skepticism surprising. I have a neurotypical kindergartener who fortunately is not prone to violence, but I have zero doubt she would be physically capable of this.