Violence in Kindergarten- Sligo Creek Elementary

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I work at a different nearby elementary, and I can believe this all occurred. The thing is, the vast majority of our kindergartners and 1st graders are great. There are just a handful — maybe a couple in some classes, none in others — with serious emotional issues or undiagnosed disabilities. Yes, it’s more than we used to see. It’s hard.

I agree. There was a girl in our K who was out of control—threw a heavy object at the teacher who had to go to the hospital as a result, explosive tantrums, threw metal water bottle (missed the student in this case), physically attacking other students. So all the same behaviors on this thread, though a different ES. The principal in this case however handled this situation well and the girl is no longer terrorizing the school. I like the girl and the family but she needs intervention. The principal can make a difference in how these cases are dealt with.

A full metal water bottle is like a kettlebell.

What did the principal do that you felt was effective? It’s very hard for parents to respond to the principal’s vague reassurance she is “handling it” and doing everything she can when we hear about these incidents over and over. Most of us don’t have the sort of in-depth knowledge of MCPS’s Byzantine system that would be required to know whether that’s pure BS or something is actually being done. I understand that privacy rules mean she can’t say much more, but it leaves us in a position of feeling like our only solution for *our kid* is to flee the system.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This reminds me of the Newport News kindergartener who kept escalating until he shot his teacher.

https://apnews.com/article/virginia-school-shooting-boy-6-zwerner-richneck-eeeac96418220aee71cdd296c0089821

Fortunately Maryland has better gun laws.

What are our laws about hitting people in the head with water bottles? Pretty sure we’re a strong no on that, yet it occurred.

Ostriches.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I work at a different nearby elementary, and I can believe this all occurred. The thing is, the vast majority of our kindergartners and 1st graders are great. There are just a handful — maybe a couple in some classes, none in others — with serious emotional issues or undiagnosed disabilities. Yes, it’s more than we used to see. It’s hard.

I agree. There was a girl in our K who was out of control—threw a heavy object at the teacher who had to go to the hospital as a result, explosive tantrums, threw metal water bottle (missed the student in this case), physically attacking other students. So all the same behaviors on this thread, though a different ES. The principal in this case however handled this situation well and the girl is no longer terrorizing the school. I like the girl and the family but she needs intervention. The principal can make a difference in how these cases are dealt with.

A full metal water bottle is like a kettlebell.

What did the principal do that you felt was effective? It’s very hard for parents to respond to the principal’s vague reassurance she is “handling it” and doing everything she can when we hear about these incidents over and over. Most of us don’t have the sort of in-depth knowledge of MCPS’s Byzantine system that would be required to know whether that’s pure BS or something is actually being done. I understand that privacy rules mean she can’t say much more, but it leaves us in a position of feeling like our only solution for *our kid* is to flee the system.

The principal is very professional, communicative, and handles any serious problem themself instead of handing it to the AP never to be heard from. With this student, there were many incidents and now she is at a different school. So it is possible.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I work at a different nearby elementary, and I can believe this all occurred. The thing is, the vast majority of our kindergartners and 1st graders are great. There are just a handful — maybe a couple in some classes, none in others — with serious emotional issues or undiagnosed disabilities. Yes, it’s more than we used to see. It’s hard.

I agree. There was a girl in our K who was out of control—threw a heavy object at the teacher who had to go to the hospital as a result, explosive tantrums, threw metal water bottle (missed the student in this case), physically attacking other students. So all the same behaviors on this thread, though a different ES. The principal in this case however handled this situation well and the girl is no longer terrorizing the school. I like the girl and the family but she needs intervention. The principal can make a difference in how these cases are dealt with.

A full metal water bottle is like a kettlebell.

What did the principal do that you felt was effective? It’s very hard for parents to respond to the principal’s vague reassurance she is “handling it” and doing everything she can when we hear about these incidents over and over. Most of us don’t have the sort of in-depth knowledge of MCPS’s Byzantine system that would be required to know whether that’s pure BS or something is actually being done. I understand that privacy rules mean she can’t say much more, but it leaves us in a position of feeling like our only solution for *our kid* is to flee the system.

The principal is very professional, communicative, and handles any serious problem themself instead of handing it to the AP never to be heard from. With this student, there were many incidents and now she is at a different school. So it is possible.

Not the original PP who said they saw a principal handle this well, but...

I'm a SCES parent and have seen a bit of how this is being handled. We also moved from elsewhere in MCPS, so I saw a similar situation at our former school, also with a kid in early elementary.

The SCES principal is not super new, but she has the same "eduspeak" defensiveness that a lot of newer MCPS principals have. Everything they say sounds like it makes sense, but you walk away without actually knowing anything. Not just about this particular case (where the general parent community doesn't need to know anything) but about related issues like the lack of a special education specialist. The messaging is all shiny and focused grouped, but not informative.

What I saw work at a previous school may only have been possible with an older principal. He spoke to parents like we were all in it together, without defensiveness. He refused to talk about specific kids, but explained the expectations for behavior for all kids, as well as how kids who need more help get it. He walked us through his commitment to keeping everyone safe, including kids who were having trouble regulating their emotions, as well as staff. Finally, he encouraged us to "go over his head" if we felt it necessary, and hinted that it might help.

It was a combination of working the system, not getting defensive, and engaging parents as allies that felt different. But, again, maybe he had the latitude to do that as a result of age and time in the system.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wow OP, I had no idea this was happening. I was hoping my child would get a spot in their French immersion, but now I'm not so sure.

Unfortunately, this can happen at any MCPS ES. Current conditions have led to an uptick in violence in our schools and nobody in a leadership position wants to fix the issues or implement solid discipline (because of equity issues).

What exactly are those "current conditions" ?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I work at a different nearby elementary, and I can believe this all occurred. The thing is, the vast majority of our kindergartners and 1st graders are great. There are just a handful — maybe a couple in some classes, none in others — with serious emotional issues or undiagnosed disabilities. Yes, it’s more than we used to see. It’s hard.

I agree. There was a girl in our K who was out of control—threw a heavy object at the teacher who had to go to the hospital as a result, explosive tantrums, threw metal water bottle (missed the student in this case), physically attacking other students. So all the same behaviors on this thread, though a different ES. The principal in this case however handled this situation well and the girl is no longer terrorizing the school. I like the girl and the family but she needs intervention. The principal can make a difference in how these cases are dealt with.

A full metal water bottle is like a kettlebell.

What did the principal do that you felt was effective? It’s very hard for parents to respond to the principal’s vague reassurance she is “handling it” and doing everything she can when we hear about these incidents over and over. Most of us don’t have the sort of in-depth knowledge of MCPS’s Byzantine system that would be required to know whether that’s pure BS or something is actually being done. I understand that privacy rules mean she can’t say much more, but it leaves us in a position of feeling like our only solution for *our kid* is to flee the system.

The principal is very professional, communicative, and handles any serious problem themself instead of handing it to the AP never to be heard from. With this student, there were many incidents and now she is at a different school. So it is possible.

Not the original PP who said they saw a principal handle this well, but...

I'm a SCES parent and have seen a bit of how this is being handled. We also moved from elsewhere in MCPS, so I saw a similar situation at our former school, also with a kid in early elementary.

The SCES principal is not super new, but she has the same "eduspeak" defensiveness that a lot of newer MCPS principals have. Everything they say sounds like it makes sense, but you walk away without actually knowing anything. Not just about this particular case (where the general parent community doesn't need to know anything) but about related issues like the lack of a special education specialist. The messaging is all shiny and focused grouped, but not informative.

What I saw work at a previous school may only have been possible with an older principal. He spoke to parents like we were all in it together, without defensiveness. He refused to talk about specific kids, but explained the expectations for behavior for all kids, as well as how kids who need more help get it. He walked us through his commitment to keeping everyone safe, including kids who were having trouble regulating their emotions, as well as staff. Finally, he encouraged us to "go over his head" if we felt it necessary, and hinted that it might help.

It was a combination of working the system, not getting defensive, and engaging parents as allies that felt different. But, again, maybe he had the latitude to do that as a result of age and time in the system.

I’m the PP who asked the question and “eduspeak defensiveness” is such a good description. She comes across as quite competent (unlike the previous principal) and I have been rooting for her, but it has become apparent that she’s more skilled in deflection than getting things done. This seems to be a common type among MCPS admin.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And the person who was injured yesterday and has staples in her head is a paraeducator, not a classroom teacher.

Then she wasn't doing her job, assuming she was in room to help with that student.

If, of course, any part of this story is true at all.

What in the f?

Why would you assume she was in the room as a 1:1 to that student?

Why would you assume that someone doing their job as a 1:1 aide can’t be harmed by a kid?

Are we all living on the same planet where a 6 year old shot a teacher last year or were you at your home base on Mars for that?

Why? Because MCPS's standard for getting a 1:1 is far less than what has been described in this thread.

And an adult that is paying attention should be more than capable of preventing a 6 year old from obtaining and throwing an apparently heavy object. Again, if this story is actually a true story, which seems less and less likely.

You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. You think it is so easy that you stand next to the child and say -no, please stop, go back to your seat - and the out of control child automatically follows your directions?

That’s not how it works -you are trying to block getting bitten, kicked and hit at the same time to you are trying to prevent other kids from being attacked. You can’t physically restrain the out of control child like you could your own son or daughter. You really can’t touch the out of control child either. How do you prevent the child from obtaining heavy objects when the room is literally full of heavy objects. So the kid picks up a chair and you grab the chair, then get kicked in the shins at the same time and try not to fall over or get kicked again or stomped on. Meanwhile the kid rushes away from you and grabs a stapler and chucks it. Or a water bottle or heavy book. Or a pencil and tries to poke another kid.

It’s ridiculous you think it is so easy and keep denying teachers and staff members are being seriously assaulted all over the country by elementary aged students.

Very creative. But again, we're talking about a kindergartener. An adult assigned to a child should be able to prevent that child from obtaining and throwing an object like a water bottle. And a good paraeducator would be able to guide the child to calming strategies before a situation escalates to that level. That's literally the job.

Since it’s so easy you try it.

I didn't say it was easy-- I said it was the job. Unfortunately, MCPS does a terrible job training paraeducators, and makes minimal efforts to appropriately pair paraeducators with students based on their skills and needs.

Why are you so determined to underplay this, or blame the victims? I'm flummoxed about your motivations here.

I'm not underplaying it. But the fault here rests with MCPS not providing appropriate supports in the classroom, not with the 6-year-old child that some have been demonizing.

No, the fault lies in that MCPS has not provided the appropriate placement for the child. Gen Ed is not the appropriate placement for a child that injured staff to the point of needing stitches. Merely providing an aide is not enough either. A self contained, fully staffed special education classroom for those with disabilities is the appropriate placement.

You can't reasonably jump to that conclusion without knowing more about the child's needs, and what strategies have succeeded or failed. Many of the risks are the same between the gen-ed and self-contained environments, ans many the same supports and services can be employed in both.

Uh-huh. Ok. Sure.

[Anonymous]

I’m the PP who asked the question and “eduspeak defensiveness” is such a good description. She comes across as quite competent (unlike the previous principal) and I have been rooting for her, but it has become apparent that she’s more skilled in deflection than getting things done. This seems to be a common type among MCPS admin.

What is it about MCPS culture that fosters this ("eduspeak defensiveness" *is* an excellent term!), do you think? If you talk with the principal one-on-one and she knows you and is comfortable with you, she'll be real. And I think that's what every parent wants, to have their admin team be real with them. It should be okay to say, "this thing that happened today, it was bad" and not downplay it with "a student got irritated and an educator was very slightly injured" -- which was the gist of the note kindergarten parents received. Taming it down with "a student got irritated" and someone was "very slightly injured" leaves people questioning whether they can trust what you say, when the kids and other grownups at school saw blood pouring down someone's face and were scared. We've all been rooting for her, particularly after the previous situation, but this deflection and lack of solid information really is frustrating. I hope it doesn't take years in the system to allow someone to speak honestly about what's happening at their school (while still maintaining student privacy) and to approach the parents in the community as allies.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wow OP, I had no idea this was happening. I was hoping my child would get a spot in their French immersion, but now I'm not so sure.

Unfortunately, this can happen at any MCPS ES. Current conditions have led to an uptick in violence in our schools and nobody in a leadership position wants to fix the issues or implement solid discipline (because of equity issues).

What exactly are those "current conditions" ?

The current belief that integrating disturbed, disruptive, and violent children with non-disruptive, well behaved children will magically improve outcomes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wow OP, I had no idea this was happening. I was hoping my child would get a spot in their French immersion, but now I'm not so sure.

Unfortunately, this can happen at any MCPS ES. Current conditions have led to an uptick in violence in our schools and nobody in a leadership position wants to fix the issues or implement solid discipline (because of equity issues).

What exactly are those "current conditions" ?

The current belief that integrating disturbed, disruptive, and violent children with non-disruptive, well behaved children will magically improve outcomes.

Silly laws protecting kids with disabilities. Why don't we just send them straight to prison?

[Anonymous]

Sligo Creek principal and cluster supervisor - where are you? Why aren't you addressing the unhinged parents on this thread who are vilifying some of your families?

[Anonymous]

I have a hard time believing most kindergarteners have the strength to throw a full metal water bottle to the height of a teacher

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have a hard time believing most kindergarteners have the strength to throw a full metal water bottle to the height of a teacher

While I wouldn't go that far, I think it is pretty clear that we're getting a skewed view of events by people resentful of kids with disabilities. They just want to warehouse them somewhere away from themselves or their kids, rather than actually making sure they're getting the education and support they need.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And the person who was injured yesterday and has staples in her head is a paraeducator, not a classroom teacher.

Then she wasn't doing her job, assuming she was in room to help with that student.

If, of course, any part of this story is true at all.

What in the f?

Why would you assume she was in the room as a 1:1 to that student?

Why would you assume that someone doing their job as a 1:1 aide can’t be harmed by a kid?

Are we all living on the same planet where a 6 year old shot a teacher last year or were you at your home base on Mars for that?

Why? Because MCPS's standard for getting a 1:1 is far less than what has been described in this thread.

And an adult that is paying attention should be more than capable of preventing a 6 year old from obtaining and throwing an apparently heavy object. Again, if this story is actually a true story, which seems less and less likely.

You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. You think it is so easy that you stand next to the child and say -no, please stop, go back to your seat - and the out of control child automatically follows your directions?

That’s not how it works -you are trying to block getting bitten, kicked and hit at the same time to you are trying to prevent other kids from being attacked. You can’t physically restrain the out of control child like you could your own son or daughter. You really can’t touch the out of control child either. How do you prevent the child from obtaining heavy objects when the room is literally full of heavy objects. So the kid picks up a chair and you grab the chair, then get kicked in the shins at the same time and try not to fall over or get kicked again or stomped on. Meanwhile the kid rushes away from you and grabs a stapler and chucks it. Or a water bottle or heavy book. Or a pencil and tries to poke another kid.

It’s ridiculous you think it is so easy and keep denying teachers and staff members are being seriously assaulted all over the country by elementary aged students.

Very creative. But again, we're talking about a kindergartener. An adult assigned to a child should be able to prevent that child from obtaining and throwing an object like a water bottle. And a good paraeducator would be able to guide the child to calming strategies before a situation escalates to that level. That's literally the job.

You never answered the question how the adult prevents the child from obtaining an object. You can't restrain the child in any way, so don't include that in your answer. Teachers have been seriously injured by kindergarten and first grade students. you magically think someone getting paid $18 an hour is a kindergarten whisperer who is going to calm the student down when no one else can? You have very obviously never seen a raging out of control student and/or you are an administrator who does an awful job or parent who thinks your child can do no wrong.

This is the type of gaslighting from administrators and parents of out of control kids that make special education teachers and general education teachers quit
Administrators who tell teachers-
if you only build a relationship with the kid, he or she wouldn't have bashed you in the head with a water bottle, so the 8 staples in your head is basically your fault.
Oh it's just a kindergarten student, they don't kick that hard or bite that deeply.
What did you do to make the student so upset? You should let him have whatever he wants.
Why aren't you calming the student down, you should be able to do that before the student escalates
Why aren't you providing the student with rewards (of course they are never provided by the school, the teacher has to spend his or her own money)?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have a hard time believing most kindergarteners have the strength to throw a full metal water bottle to the height of a teacher

As if all teachers are 6 feet tall. Our para was a 4’10” petite lady. Sitting down, if she was hit by a metal water bottle, it would do some damage.