Disruptive student in class

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a former MCPS admin who resigned from my elementary school position because I couldn't deal with how tied my hands were when trying to lead a school building. Our schools look so much different now than they did ten years ago. The disruptive behavior and defiance are taking a toll on all of our educators and the students who are there to learn. We place too much emphasis on schools to solve our societal issues. The fact that I would have to call my director to get permission to suspend a kid for hitting a teacher was the straw that broke the camel's back. When you go through your admin program MCPS tells you that they pay us for our judgement. The reality is, optics are everything and they will do whatever they can to keep those suspension numbers down. I spent most of my day babysitting kids who couldn't stay safe in their classes.
I've noticed a lot of people who post on here are quick to jump on the IEP train but don't realize that there's a timeline for all of that and you can't just have a student be placed in an alternative program two weeks after starting the process. I had a student who was coded with emotional disabilities but central office kept the child at our school rather than our neighboring SESES program. Code doesn't drive a student's placement. I give credit to all of the MCPS staff who are sticking with it but it just wasn't worth it any more.

It’s pretty disturbing that a former principal doesn’t seem to know what LRE means.

They are right, though -- code doesn't drive placement. If it did, my student would be in an autism program. He is not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a former MCPS admin who resigned from my elementary school position because I couldn't deal with how tied my hands were when trying to lead a school building. Our schools look so much different now than they did ten years ago. The disruptive behavior and defiance are taking a toll on all of our educators and the students who are there to learn. We place too much emphasis on schools to solve our societal issues. The fact that I would have to call my director to get permission to suspend a kid for hitting a teacher was the straw that broke the camel's back. When you go through your admin program MCPS tells you that they pay us for our judgement. The reality is, optics are everything and they will do whatever they can to keep those suspension numbers down. I spent most of my day babysitting kids who couldn't stay safe in their classes.
I've noticed a lot of people who post on here are quick to jump on the IEP train but don't realize that there's a timeline for all of that and you can't just have a student be placed in an alternative program two weeks after starting the process. I had a student who was coded with emotional disabilities but central office kept the child at our school rather than our neighboring SESES program. Code doesn't drive a student's placement. I give credit to all of the MCPS staff who are sticking with it but it just wasn't worth it any more.

It’s pretty disturbing that a former principal doesn’t seem to know what LRE means.

LRE doesn't mean allowing disruptive and/or violent, aggressive students to remain in a classroom and continuing to hurt others.

No, but it certainly doesn't mean you'd expect a student with special needs to be pulled out of a general education classroom as a first step. You are only supposed to remove students when services/supports don't work in the general education setting.

And certainly you wouldn't expect the code to be the primary factor driving placement.

PP here. I get it. Have worked in this field for years. Doesn't mean a child like the one in Newport News should be allowed to harm others. Sometimes there are situations where waiting for something to happen isn't the best option for the child in question or his/her classmates.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a former MCPS admin who resigned from my elementary school position because I couldn't deal with how tied my hands were when trying to lead a school building. Our schools look so much different now than they did ten years ago. The disruptive behavior and defiance are taking a toll on all of our educators and the students who are there to learn. We place too much emphasis on schools to solve our societal issues. The fact that I would have to call my director to get permission to suspend a kid for hitting a teacher was the straw that broke the camel's back. When you go through your admin program MCPS tells you that they pay us for our judgement. The reality is, optics are everything and they will do whatever they can to keep those suspension numbers down. I spent most of my day babysitting kids who couldn't stay safe in their classes.
I've noticed a lot of people who post on here are quick to jump on the IEP train but don't realize that there's a timeline for all of that and you can't just have a student be placed in an alternative program two weeks after starting the process. I had a student who was coded with emotional disabilities but central office kept the child at our school rather than our neighboring SESES program. Code doesn't drive a student's placement. I give credit to all of the MCPS staff who are sticking with it but it just wasn't worth it any more.

It’s pretty disturbing that a former principal doesn’t seem to know what LRE means.

They are right, though -- code doesn't drive placement. If it did, my student would be in an autism program. He is not.

No, the problem was that the tone of the message indicated that she thought the code should have driven placement into a special program.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If you are who I think you are then you have a terrible reputation in MCPS, admin. Your answer to every special needs kid was to try to ship them out of your school and you violated laws numerous times by trying to do that. the compliance office was investigating you but then you left.

Sounds like she'd be DCUM's favorite principal. Among parents of NT kids, anyway.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:When did public school turn into some sort of mental health / disability treatment facility?

+1 schools are not the correct place for this

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a former MCPS admin who resigned from my elementary school position because I couldn't deal with how tied my hands were when trying to lead a school building. Our schools look so much different now than they did ten years ago. The disruptive behavior and defiance are taking a toll on all of our educators and the students who are there to learn. We place too much emphasis on schools to solve our societal issues. The fact that I would have to call my director to get permission to suspend a kid for hitting a teacher was the straw that broke the camel's back. When you go through your admin program MCPS tells you that they pay us for our judgement. The reality is, optics are everything and they will do whatever they can to keep those suspension numbers down. I spent most of my day babysitting kids who couldn't stay safe in their classes.
I've noticed a lot of people who post on here are quick to jump on the IEP train but don't realize that there's a timeline for all of that and you can't just have a student be placed in an alternative program two weeks after starting the process. I had a student who was coded with emotional disabilities but central office kept the child at our school rather than our neighboring SESES program. Code doesn't drive a student's placement. I give credit to all of the MCPS staff who are sticking with it but it just wasn't worth it any more.

It’s pretty disturbing that a former principal doesn’t seem to know what LRE means.

12:05 here - very familiar with LRE as I taught in SESES. Nice try couch warrior.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When did public school turn into some sort of mental health / disability treatment facility?

+1 schools are not the correct place for this

This is a true statement. Do you have an alternative idea of who should help these kids? Remember, some have parents that don't believe an issue exists, some have parents that do not have the time or money to take a child to a mental health practitioner, and some are trying but are finding obstacles every where they turn.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When did public school turn into some sort of mental health / disability treatment facility?

+1 schools are not the correct place for this

This is a true statement. Do you have an alternative idea of who should help these kids? Remember, some have parents that don't believe an issue exists, some have parents that do not have the time or money to take a child to a mental health practitioner, and some are trying but are finding obstacles every where they turn.

You do you assume that people feel like they need help? If they can't control themselves enough to be around other kids, then they have no business being around other kids

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When did public school turn into some sort of mental health / disability treatment facility?

+1 schools are not the correct place for this

This is a true statement. Do you have an alternative idea of who should help these kids? Remember, some have parents that don't believe an issue exists, some have parents that do not have the time or money to take a child to a mental health practitioner, and some are trying but are finding obstacles every where they turn.

You do you assume that people feel like they need help? If they can't control themselves enough to be around other kids, then they have no business being around other kids

Again, what is your solution? Okay--they can't control themselves. They are under 18 and are required to be educated/in school. It's not the kids fault they can't control themselves. It's either something wrong with the parenting or there is a disability issue. But an 8 yr old is not responsible for the fact that they either don't know how or can't behave.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When did public school turn into some sort of mental health / disability treatment facility?

+1 schools are not the correct place for this

This is a true statement. Do you have an alternative idea of who should help these kids? Remember, some have parents that don't believe an issue exists, some have parents that do not have the time or money to take a child to a mental health practitioner, and some are trying but are finding obstacles every where they turn.

You do you assume that people feel like they need help? If they can't control themselves enough to be around other kids, then they have no business being around other kids

Again, what is your solution? Okay--they can't control themselves. They are under 18 and are required to be educated/in school. It's not the kids fault they can't control themselves. It's either something wrong with the parenting or there is a disability issue. But an 8 yr old is not responsible for the fact that they either don't know how or can't behave.

Repeat after me: "Poor behavior is not a recognized disability". Yes, it can be viewed as communication of needs/wants/frustrations. However, poor behavior should not be accepted or tolerated. It should be replaced with appropriate skills for success.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When did public school turn into some sort of mental health / disability treatment facility?

+1 schools are not the correct place for this

This is a true statement. Do you have an alternative idea of who should help these kids? Remember, some have parents that don't believe an issue exists, some have parents that do not have the time or money to take a child to a mental health practitioner, and some are trying but are finding obstacles every where they turn.

You do you assume that people feel like they need help? If they can't control themselves enough to be around other kids, then they have no business being around other kids

Again, what is your solution? Okay--they can't control themselves. They are under 18 and are required to be educated/in school. It's not the kids fault they can't control themselves. It's either something wrong with the parenting or there is a disability issue. But an 8 yr old is not responsible for the fact that they either don't know how or can't behave.

Repeat after me: "Poor behavior is not a recognized disability". Yes, it can be viewed as communication of needs/wants/frustrations. However, poor behavior should not be accepted or tolerated. It should be replaced with appropriate skills for success.

But poor behavior can be the result of a disability, requiring special education services and supports to allow the child to develop the appropriate and necessary skills.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When did public school turn into some sort of mental health / disability treatment facility?

+1 schools are not the correct place for this

This is a true statement. Do you have an alternative idea of who should help these kids? Remember, some have parents that don't believe an issue exists, some have parents that do not have the time or money to take a child to a mental health practitioner, and some are trying but are finding obstacles every where they turn.

You do you assume that people feel like they need help? If they can't control themselves enough to be around other kids, then they have no business being around other kids

Again, what is your solution? Okay--they can't control themselves. They are under 18 and are required to be educated/in school. It's not the kids fault they can't control themselves. It's either something wrong with the parenting or there is a disability issue. But an 8 yr old is not responsible for the fact that they either don't know how or can't behave.

Repeat after me: "Poor behavior is not a recognized disability". Yes, it can be viewed as communication of needs/wants/frustrations. However, poor behavior should not be accepted or tolerated. It should be replaced with appropriate skills for success.

I think the key question is "How?" How do you replace poor behavior with success, in the confines of a public education classroom, and with a child who does not technically qualify for services? Is your answer "magic?"

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Every class has THAT kid. That’s why we ended up at private. Mainstreaming has been a failure.

Private is worse. My child was literally groped by another kid and they are all like "oh, it's the kids having issues with boundaries since the pandemic". Yeah STFU. These are 2nd gradrs btw.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a former MCPS admin who resigned from my elementary school position because I couldn't deal with how tied my hands were when trying to lead a school building. Our schools look so much different now than they did ten years ago. The disruptive behavior and defiance are taking a toll on all of our educators and the students who are there to learn. We place too much emphasis on schools to solve our societal issues. The fact that I would have to call my director to get permission to suspend a kid for hitting a teacher was the straw that broke the camel's back. When you go through your admin program MCPS tells you that they pay us for our judgement. The reality is, optics are everything and they will do whatever they can to keep those suspension numbers down. I spent most of my day babysitting kids who couldn't stay safe in their classes.
I've noticed a lot of people who post on here are quick to jump on the IEP train but don't realize that there's a timeline for all of that and you can't just have a student be placed in an alternative program two weeks after starting the process. I had a student who was coded with emotional disabilities but central office kept the child at our school rather than our neighboring SESES program. Code doesn't drive a student's placement. I give credit to all of the MCPS staff who are sticking with it but it just wasn't worth it any more.

It’s pretty disturbing that a former principal doesn’t seem to know what LRE means.

12:05 here - very familiar with LRE as I taught in SESES. Nice try couch warrior.

That only makes it more disturbing that you don't understand it. I'm glad you left the system. You shouldn't be anywhere near kids with special needs.

Actually, YOU don't appear to understand. The rest of us understand about LRE. It's a very basic component of special education support. It seems that you're trying to enlighten educators who are fully aware of the regs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a former MCPS admin who resigned from my elementary school position because I couldn't deal with how tied my hands were when trying to lead a school building. Our schools look so much different now than they did ten years ago. The disruptive behavior and defiance are taking a toll on all of our educators and the students who are there to learn. We place too much emphasis on schools to solve our societal issues. The fact that I would have to call my director to get permission to suspend a kid for hitting a teacher was the straw that broke the camel's back. When you go through your admin program MCPS tells you that they pay us for our judgement. The reality is, optics are everything and they will do whatever they can to keep those suspension numbers down. I spent most of my day babysitting kids who couldn't stay safe in their classes.
I've noticed a lot of people who post on here are quick to jump on the IEP train but don't realize that there's a timeline for all of that and you can't just have a student be placed in an alternative program two weeks after starting the process. I had a student who was coded with emotional disabilities but central office kept the child at our school rather than our neighboring SESES program. Code doesn't drive a student's placement. I give credit to all of the MCPS staff who are sticking with it but it just wasn't worth it any more.

It’s pretty disturbing that a former principal doesn’t seem to know what LRE means.

12:05 here - very familiar with LRE as I taught in SESES. Nice try couch warrior.

That only makes it more disturbing that you don't understand it. I'm glad you left the system. You shouldn't be anywhere near kids with special needs.

Actually, YOU don't appear to understand. The rest of us understand about LRE. It's a very basic component of special education support. It seems that you're trying to enlighten educators who are fully aware of the regs.

No one that understands LRE should be surprised when a code doesn't lead to placement in a special program.