FL schools to teach that "Blacks benefited from slavery" and "massacres had reasons"

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:African-Americans are the most forgiving and resilient people on the planet. All they want is equality and acknowledgment of their history and the South can't even do that.

Do you expect the people of DC to apologize for DC's history of slavery?

Are the people of DC saying that there were benefits bestowed on some of the slaves by the forced acquisition of skills?

No. But neither are the people of any state but Florida. Why do people in South Carolina owe you an apology?

IF they are saying that there were benefits to slavery for the slaves, I think they need to correct that.

What I'm responding to is the tsk-tsk about why people who live in the south today haven't apologized about slavery. I'm confused about why we're giving DC and Maryland a pass. I am also confused about why if you live in the south, you're more responsible for this historic injustice than anyone else in the US. I'm not from the south, but I live in the south now. A year ago I didn't owe you an apology, but now I do. Make this make sense.

I dont know where this apology stuff is coming from. This thread is about offensive parts of the Florida educational standards.

Read the thread. People are complaining that southerners don't walk around apologizing to northerners about slavery. I presume this arose because Florida is in the south, and as another poster noted, the south had never been "put down" the way it should have. It seems that the posters on this thread would like the region that has more black people than any other region to live under the boot of northerners, offering apologies at random.

You know, if you want to see something interesting, Google maps that depict where BLM protests in 2020 occurred. You'd think it would be like the 1960s when black southerners resisted in order to force the end of Jim Crow, etc. You'd expect all kinds of activity in the south. Right?

You realize people fly confederate flags in plenty of northern states now, including PA, MT, ID etc, right? Because the Confederates and the south were not fully put down after the Union Army victory, we are paying a price today.

Then I think you owe me an apology for the north being complicit in the continued specter of slavery. They didn't fully put it down when they could have, because they wanted to benefit from perpetuating a system of white supremacy. I hope you make amends.

[Anonymous]

Why limit this “benefit” to slavery? After slavery, sharecroppers learned farming skills, but that doesn’t mean it was a benefit for them to be contracted to work some rich a**holes land on the rich a**holes terms rather than being allowed to work their own farm or to leave the farm for other opportunities. This “benefit” point is such paternalistic nonsense. Just say they worked hard and became skilled at what they did, but every part of their lives was controlled by their owners.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:African-Americans are the most forgiving and resilient people on the planet. All they want is equality and acknowledgment of their history and the South can't even do that.

Do you expect the people of DC to apologize for DC's history of slavery?

Are the people of DC saying that there were benefits bestowed on some of the slaves by the forced acquisition of skills?

No. But neither are the people of any state but Florida. Why do people in South Carolina owe you an apology?

IF they are saying that there were benefits to slavery for the slaves, I think they need to correct that.

What I'm responding to is the tsk-tsk about why people who live in the south today haven't apologized about slavery. I'm confused about why we're giving DC and Maryland a pass. I am also confused about why if you live in the south, you're more responsible for this historic injustice than anyone else in the US. I'm not from the south, but I live in the south now. A year ago I didn't owe you an apology, but now I do. Make this make sense.

DP. As someone who has lived in the South, the West, and now the Mid-Atlantic, which is a bit Northern and a bit Southern, I think these posters are just very sheltered. And have not seen very much of this big beautiful country.

+1 and likely many of them very young and haven't studied the part about history where cotton grown in the south was sent for manufacturing purposes, which benefited greatly the manufacturers, their homes, universities, and lifestyles.

Speak for your own state. We were absolutely taught about the northern states role in perpetuating slavery. And were never thought that that depraved system was somehow beneficial to some of the slaves.

I noticed that you failed to apologize for your role in slavery.

I notice you want to change the point of this thread to something else that fixing the inaccurate educational curriculum of Florida. You think there were benefits to the slaves from slavery.

+1. Florida is not asking the students to apologize for anything. that is not in the standards.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:African-Americans are the most forgiving and resilient people on the planet. All they want is equality and acknowledgment of their history and the South can't even do that.

Do you expect the people of DC to apologize for DC's history of slavery?

Are the people of DC saying that there were benefits bestowed on some of the slaves by the forced acquisition of skills?

No. But neither are the people of any state but Florida. Why do people in South Carolina owe you an apology?

IF they are saying that there were benefits to slavery for the slaves, I think they need to correct that.

What I'm responding to is the tsk-tsk about why people who live in the south today haven't apologized about slavery. I'm confused about why we're giving DC and Maryland a pass. I am also confused about why if you live in the south, you're more responsible for this historic injustice than anyone else in the US. I'm not from the south, but I live in the south now. A year ago I didn't owe you an apology, but now I do. Make this make sense.

I dont know where this apology stuff is coming from. This thread is about offensive parts of the Florida educational standards.

Read the thread. People are complaining that southerners don't walk around apologizing to northerners about slavery. I presume this arose because Florida is in the south, and as another poster noted, the south had never been "put down" the way it should have. It seems that the posters on this thread would like the region that has more black people than any other region to live under the boot of northerners, offering apologies at random.

You know, if you want to see something interesting, Google maps that depict where BLM protests in 2020 occurred. You'd think it would be like the 1960s when black southerners resisted in order to force the end of Jim Crow, etc. You'd expect all kinds of activity in the south. Right?

You realize people fly confederate flags in plenty of northern states now, including PA, MT, ID etc, right? Because the Confederates and the south were not fully put down after the Union Army victory, we are paying a price today.

Then I think you owe me an apology for the north being complicit in the continued specter of slavery. They didn't fully put it down when they could have, because they wanted to benefit from perpetuating a system of white supremacy. I hope you make amends.

What state is teaching that the north was not complicit in slavery?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:African-Americans are the most forgiving and resilient people on the planet. All they want is equality and acknowledgment of their history and the South can't even do that.

Do you expect the people of DC to apologize for DC's history of slavery?

Are the people of DC saying that there were benefits bestowed on some of the slaves by the forced acquisition of skills?

No. But neither are the people of any state but Florida. Why do people in South Carolina owe you an apology?

IF they are saying that there were benefits to slavery for the slaves, I think they need to correct that.

What I'm responding to is the tsk-tsk about why people who live in the south today haven't apologized about slavery. I'm confused about why we're giving DC and Maryland a pass. I am also confused about why if you live in the south, you're more responsible for this historic injustice than anyone else in the US. I'm not from the south, but I live in the south now. A year ago I didn't owe you an apology, but now I do. Make this make sense.

DP. NO ONE is asking you for an apology. This isn't about YOU! The only thing we are asking for is for the FL curriculum not to require teaching that there was any positive spin to acquiring job skills while being a slave. Is that so hard to understand?! Why are you people doubling down so hard on this?

DP. Why are you arguing that there should be no acknowledgement of the positives that some slaves, or enslaved persons, made of their lives and their legacy?

Saying that it was ALL BAD for them is both inaccurate and a bad lesson for students. And disrespectful to the stories of their lives.

I can't tell if you're trolling or being purposefully obtuse. Think about what you just wrote: "Saying that it was ALL BAD for them is both inaccurate and a bad lesson for students." Really think about it.

I am thinking about the message that you prefer - that their lives had no value or meaning, that they benefitted from nothing, did nothing, had no legacy.

I do not prefer that. I do not think that is a good or accurate message.

Just stop with the straw man argument. When you have to resort to that, it just shows you know you are wrong. We are saying slaves did plenty, they built America, just not for their own benefit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:African-Americans are the most forgiving and resilient people on the planet. All they want is equality and acknowledgment of their history and the South can't even do that.

Do you expect the people of DC to apologize for DC's history of slavery?

Are the people of DC saying that there were benefits bestowed on some of the slaves by the forced acquisition of skills?

No. But neither are the people of any state but Florida. Why do people in South Carolina owe you an apology?

IF they are saying that there were benefits to slavery for the slaves, I think they need to correct that.

What I'm responding to is the tsk-tsk about why people who live in the south today haven't apologized about slavery. I'm confused about why we're giving DC and Maryland a pass. I am also confused about why if you live in the south, you're more responsible for this historic injustice than anyone else in the US. I'm not from the south, but I live in the south now. A year ago I didn't owe you an apology, but now I do. Make this make sense.

DP. As someone who has lived in the South, the West, and now the Mid-Atlantic, which is a bit Northern and a bit Southern, I think these posters are just very sheltered. And have not seen very much of this big beautiful country.

+1 and likely many of them very young and haven't studied the part about history where cotton grown in the south was sent for manufacturing purposes, which benefited greatly the manufacturers, their homes, universities, and lifestyles.

Speak for your own state. We were absolutely taught about the northern states role in perpetuating slavery. And were never thought that that depraved system was somehow beneficial to some of the slaves.

PP here. I was never taught this line of thinking either. I still say that many DCUM posters' comments reflect their ignorance on the subject of the role of the inhabitants of northern states. Southern states had to sell their cotton somewhere for the system to even exist.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I still want to understand the difference between Germany and the American south. Why are the Germans so much better at acknowledging the evil they did? Why are Americans so resistant to it? I have to say I admire the Germans.

Have today's people of Georgetown apologized for being home to a major slave trading port? Or the people of Annapolis? Why not?

Georgetown University gives some preferential admission treatment to those descendants of slaves that were sold by GU. I think the school also established a scholarship fund for same.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If a woman was kidnapped and raped for years, would you ask her whether she picked up any good cooking skills or recipes during that period? For balance?
Would you try to use that defense argument with a jury?

OF COURSE NOT, because it is so disingenuous.

AND so disrespectful of the price she paid.

Great example.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:African-Americans are the most forgiving and resilient people on the planet. All they want is equality and acknowledgment of their history and the South can't even do that.

Do you expect the people of DC to apologize for DC's history of slavery?

Are the people of DC saying that there were benefits bestowed on some of the slaves by the forced acquisition of skills?

No. But neither are the people of any state but Florida. Why do people in South Carolina owe you an apology?

IF they are saying that there were benefits to slavery for the slaves, I think they need to correct that.

What I'm responding to is the tsk-tsk about why people who live in the south today haven't apologized about slavery. I'm confused about why we're giving DC and Maryland a pass. I am also confused about why if you live in the south, you're more responsible for this historic injustice than anyone else in the US. I'm not from the south, but I live in the south now. A year ago I didn't owe you an apology, but now I do. Make this make sense.

DP. As someone who has lived in the South, the West, and now the Mid-Atlantic, which is a bit Northern and a bit Southern, I think these posters are just very sheltered. And have not seen very much of this big beautiful country.

+1 and likely many of them very young and haven't studied the part about history where cotton grown in the south was sent for manufacturing purposes, which benefited greatly the manufacturers, their homes, universities, and lifestyles.

Speak for your own state. We were absolutely taught about the northern states role in perpetuating slavery. And were never thought that that depraved system was somehow beneficial to some of the slaves.

PP here. I was never taught this line of thinking either. I still say that many DCUM posters' comments reflect their ignorance on the subject of the role of the inhabitants of northern states. Southern states had to sell their cotton somewhere for the system to even exist.

I have not read a single post claiming the north was not complicit or that any students are being taught that the north was not part of this system.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I wasn't really paying attention to this news story because it appeared to be so obviously BS that it wasn't worth reading. Then I realized that was the wrong way to go, because if we quit paying attention to potential abuses of power, we won't notice them when they happen.

So I looked into this story and, well, it was intentionally misconstrued to smear Florida. I don't know why I bother.

Oh well by all means, share your proof with the class.

It’s still a dumb thing to say and a dumb way to say it. Were they more likely to earn a trade if they were slaves than if they were free? Hell No. So slavery didn’t give them skills. Working gave them skills and occasionally their aptitude was recognized and their owners rented them out as tradesmen, for the benefit of their owner. They would have learned more skills and benefited more from their skills if they were free. It’s not a “benefit” of slavery. If Florida can name the slaves who learned skilled trades, there weren’t very damn many of them. After the Civil War, there immediately were many more Black skilled tradesmen in many more industries than there had been in slavery because slavery had intentionally kept most of them ignorant and isolated as captive field hands.

Can you read? Do you have a brain and any understanding of what children can learn, both good and bad?

I wish I could say I'm surprised that you would argue about this ... but I'm not. SMH

Just how did these skills "benefit" the enslaved person who had them? What a bizarre things to say.

Of course it's fine to discuss how some enslaved people were highly skilled in various artisan fields, despite being held in bondage. To say they "benefited" from this is ahistorical. A person who is born enslaved and dies enslaved, never having experienced freedom, has never benefited from anything.

This statement is breathtaking.

246 years is a lot of heartbreak.

PP said that a person who is born enslaved and dies enslaved, never having experienced freedom, has never benefited from anything. Has never lived.

That's a terrible statement that these historians are pushing back against. PP cannot even see it. Doesn't realize it.

DP... What benefit? Being given a bare subsistence while being worked to death for no wages? Being kept as chattel property and not being ever allowed to make any of your own decisions? Being kept from being allowed to pursue any other life? That was the actual historical fact. If "these historians" aren't acknowledging that then either they aren't historians, or are liar.

Do YOU not even see it? Do YOU not realize it?

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/27/opinion/sugar-land-texas-graves-slavery.html#:~:text=Slaves%20in%20the%20Louisiana%20sugar%20cane%20world%20lived,feared%20being%20sold%20into%20bondage%20in%20sugar%20fields.

Exactly. And in Louisiana and Florida the lifespan of a slave was seven-years. Slaves who did not accept their fate of being chattel were "sold down the river", meaning further south. That was the fear of slaves and was used to keep them in line. Seven-year life span, but yeah DeSantis wants to say slavery had their benefits. Damn disgusting. Let somebody separate him and the school board from their children and family and then subject them to servitude to be treated worse than they treated their dogs.

+1

Also, consider that most African Americans carry European DNA, how do you think that happened?

Have you ever seen a US government census slave schedule before? Here's a page of one from 1860. They couldn't even bother to list these HUMAN BEINGS by their names - just age, sex and "color" (look at all those mulattos - where did they come from?)

Why isn't this a "benchmark" to be taught in Florida?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:African-Americans are the most forgiving and resilient people on the planet. All they want is equality and acknowledgment of their history and the South can't even do that.

Do you expect the people of DC to apologize for DC's history of slavery?

Are the people of DC saying that there were benefits bestowed on some of the slaves by the forced acquisition of skills?

No. But neither are the people of any state but Florida. Why do people in South Carolina owe you an apology?

IF they are saying that there were benefits to slavery for the slaves, I think they need to correct that.

What I'm responding to is the tsk-tsk about why people who live in the south today haven't apologized about slavery. I'm confused about why we're giving DC and Maryland a pass. I am also confused about why if you live in the south, you're more responsible for this historic injustice than anyone else in the US. I'm not from the south, but I live in the south now. A year ago I didn't owe you an apology, but now I do. Make this make sense.

DP. NO ONE is asking you for an apology. This isn't about YOU! The only thing we are asking for is for the FL curriculum not to require teaching that there was any positive spin to acquiring job skills while being a slave. Is that so hard to understand?! Why are you people doubling down so hard on this?

DP. Why are you arguing that there should be no acknowledgement of the positives that some slaves, or enslaved persons, made of their lives and their legacy?

Saying that it was ALL BAD for them is both inaccurate and a bad lesson for students. And disrespectful to the stories of their lives.

Humans carry strengths and abilities inside of them. They are not the product of whatever torture they are enduring.

Some Holocaust victims made music during their confinement, or wrote poems. That is not a BENEFIT of the Holocaust.

[Anonymous]

I was actually given the sort of education about slavery that the left is advocating for. And as a result, I didn't have a very rich or detailed understanding of what slavery was actually like, and why it was so difficult to reverse. I learned these things from black historians as an adult, and it sparked a lot of interest in black history that I didn't previously have.

I don't think that the term "benefit" was the best word for what they were trying to communicate, but I also think that having a kind of "bare essentials" understanding of slaves as being completely beholden to their owners, and lacking in a life or community outside of that, didn't help me understand or empathize with slaves. These were people with skills, lives, even some choices and complicated relationships. So I know there is a big push on the left to strip out all context and just let people know what was good and what was bad, but I think that will have the opposite effect.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I was actually given the sort of education about slavery that the left is advocating for. And as a result, I didn't have a very rich or detailed understanding of what slavery was actually like, and why it was so difficult to reverse. I learned these things from black historians as an adult, and it sparked a lot of interest in black history that I didn't previously have.

I don't think that the term "benefit" was the best word for what they were trying to communicate, but I also think that having a kind of "bare essentials" understanding of slaves as being completely beholden to their owners, and lacking in a life or community outside of that, didn't help me understand or empathize with slaves. These were people with skills, lives, even some choices and complicated relationships. So I know there is a big push on the left to strip out all context and just let people know what was good and what was bad, but I think that will have the opposite effect.

my goodness. It sound like you are talking about African American studies or some woke nonsense like that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:African-Americans are the most forgiving and resilient people on the planet. All they want is equality and acknowledgment of their history and the South can't even do that.

Do you expect the people of DC to apologize for DC's history of slavery?

Are the people of DC saying that there were benefits bestowed on some of the slaves by the forced acquisition of skills?

No. But neither are the people of any state but Florida. Why do people in South Carolina owe you an apology?

IF they are saying that there were benefits to slavery for the slaves, I think they need to correct that.

What I'm responding to is the tsk-tsk about why people who live in the south today haven't apologized about slavery. I'm confused about why we're giving DC and Maryland a pass. I am also confused about why if you live in the south, you're more responsible for this historic injustice than anyone else in the US. I'm not from the south, but I live in the south now. A year ago I didn't owe you an apology, but now I do. Make this make sense.

DP. As someone who has lived in the South, the West, and now the Mid-Atlantic, which is a bit Northern and a bit Southern, I think these posters are just very sheltered. And have not seen very much of this big beautiful country.

+1 and likely many of them very young and haven't studied the part about history where cotton grown in the south was sent for manufacturing purposes, which benefited greatly the manufacturers, their homes, universities, and lifestyles.

Speak for your own state. We were absolutely taught about the northern states role in perpetuating slavery. And were never thought that that depraved system was somehow beneficial to some of the slaves.

PP here. I was never taught this line of thinking either. I still say that many DCUM posters' comments reflect their ignorance on the subject of the role of the inhabitants of northern states. Southern states had to sell their cotton somewhere for the system to even exist.

I have not read a single post claiming the north was not complicit or that any students are being taught that the north was not part of this system.

They think today's southerners should bear the shame of slavery, though. That kind of implies that they either don't know or don't care about the norths role.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I still want to understand the difference between Germany and the American south. Why are the Germans so much better at acknowledging the evil they did? Why are Americans so resistant to it? I have to say I admire the Germans.

The Germans who perpetrated the horrors were beaten into total submission, tried in a court, and hung from the gallows.

Those who perpetrated slavery were allowed to rejoin Congress and run their state government. Further, the same economic system that allowed slavery is still in use today: unchecked capitalism.

Yep. Nothing changed for an additional 100 years at the end of slavery. After Lincoln was assassinated and Andrew Johnson took office, he repealed all of Lincoln's plans and refused to enforce the 40 acres and a mule to allow former slaves a beginning. The south went from overt slavery to covert share-cropping slavery and Jim Crow. So from 1863 to 1964, things in these United States remained the same for Black folks in America, and longer in the south as many schools remained segregated well into the 70's. Heck, did not Prince William County Virginia get rid of public schools to avoid integrating them. Of course, the county used the money to give stipends to good, white folks to send their children to parochial and private schools.