No, test optional isn’t the reason your kid didn’t get in.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There's a basic rule in admissions, now and in the past: "If your grades are the most interesting thing about you, you're not that interesting". People want to keep denying this and talk about merit and objective measures and such, but that's how admissions people think when they look at applications. Scores are a baseline, what did you do with all those smarts? After years of looking at applications, 80% of students look like the same parent-programmed, "I checked these boxes to get into college but I don't really care about any of these things" people. Sorry, but the A minus or B student --or even just the OTHER A plus student - who did something more compelling or at least unique, is going to get the nod every time.

Kids job in high school is academics first. They should have other outlets. But, come on? What did a 15-year old do with his smarts? Answer: he studied hard and got good grades and test scores. Volunteering and being kind doesn't require smarts. Having mom and dad set-up a non-profit to look good on your apps doesn't require smarts. Having paid experiences at universities in the summer is not smarts.

This 'uniqueness' crap is ridiculous. This is not an audition for an improv class or a talk show host spot---this is admission to elite universities with rigorous academics.

There is a reason the US is ranked so low in the world when it comes to education:

The top 10 countries with the best education are:

1. Germany – 0.94
2. Finland – 0.93
3. Iceland – 0.93
4. New Zealand – 0.93
5. Norway – 0.93
6. United Kingdom – 0.93
7. Australia – 0.92
8. Denmark – 0.92
9. Ireland – 0.92
10. Singapore – 0.92

https://wisevoter.com/country-rankings/education-rankings-by-country/

Colleges get to decide what they value

That's what they thought, and we are facing a Supreme Court case

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For all this hand-wringing about diversity, look at a sports roster, especially in a women’s sport, at an Ivy/NESCAC/Centennial/UAA/Patriotic League school. Zero diversity.

This is true, but I think people are missing the real purpose of DEI/holistic admissions which is to defend white seats at these institutions from Asians. It’s a deflection. Sure, a few extra percentage points of the student body may go to black students. But the real goal is to make sure 50-75 percent of all seats don’t go to Asian students, which could be the case if SAT and GPA were the only or the dominant criteria. DEI paradigms shift the focus to black and Hispanic access while preserving systems that advantage whites over Asians (sports and legacy). However, increasingly, Asians are doing well in sports, at least ones that don’t require being physically large.

How would anyone know how every college defines "the real purpose" of holistic admission

Inference. There is no other way to analyze any of this. But consider that schools are basically controlled by white people (administration, trustees, etc). And what has been the most significant development over the past 25 years within the student bodies? The dramatic rise of Asian students

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There's a basic rule in admissions, now and in the past: "If your grades are the most interesting thing about you, you're not that interesting". People want to keep denying this and talk about merit and objective measures and such, but that's how admissions people think when they look at applications. Scores are a baseline, what did you do with all those smarts? After years of looking at applications, 80% of students look like the same parent-programmed, "I checked these boxes to get into college but I don't really care about any of these things" people. Sorry, but the A minus or B student --or even just the OTHER A plus student - who did something more compelling or at least unique, is going to get the nod every time.

LOL yea right WTF
Expect 15 years to do something compelling.
Getting mostly As and 1550 SAT seems very compelling.

It’s not at all. 8300 kids/year score a 1550 or higher on the SAT. That’s not even counting the number of kids who scored the ACT equivalent of that or higher, or the fact that colleges have a score threshold of “good enough.” Colleges don’t differentiate between a 1520, 1530, a 1540, a 1550, a 1570 and a 1580.

Basically everybody has straight As. Sorry.

Every kid applying to college went to school for 15 years prior.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's a ZERO SUM GAME.

If a lower score kid got lucky and got in with TO when otherwise wouldn't have even applied, there's another kid with higher score didn't get in.

Exactly.

Just because one kid had a higher test score doesn't mean they were overall a better applicant.

Higher score kids are usually overall a better applicant.

Where was this study researched?

MIT research and UC research but you can easily see.

Check out the test scores for competitive elites schools and mediocre schools.

Big difference in test scores. Why do you think it's that?

And yet UC application has removed all SAT/ACT scores from consideration

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There's a basic rule in admissions, now and in the past: "If your grades are the most interesting thing about you, you're not that interesting". People want to keep denying this and talk about merit and objective measures and such, but that's how admissions people think when they look at applications. Scores are a baseline, what did you do with all those smarts? After years of looking at applications, 80% of students look like the same parent-programmed, "I checked these boxes to get into college but I don't really care about any of these things" people. Sorry, but the A minus or B student --or even just the OTHER A plus student - who did something more compelling or at least unique, is going to get the nod every time.

Kids job in high school is academics first. They should have other outlets. But, come on? What did a 15-year old do with his smarts? Answer: he studied hard and got good grades and test scores. Volunteering and being kind doesn't require smarts. Having mom and dad set-up a non-profit to look good on your apps doesn't require smarts. Having paid experiences at universities in the summer is not smarts.

This 'uniqueness' crap is ridiculous. This is not an audition for an improv class or a talk show host spot---this is admission to elite universities with rigorous academics.

There is a reason the US is ranked so low in the world when it comes to education:

The top 10 countries with the best education are:

1. Germany – 0.94
2. Finland – 0.93
3. Iceland – 0.93
4. New Zealand – 0.93
5. Norway – 0.93
6. United Kingdom – 0.93
7. Australia – 0.92
8. Denmark – 0.92
9. Ireland – 0.92
10. Singapore – 0.92

https://wisevoter.com/country-rankings/education-rankings-by-country/

Why is the US not part of the rankings?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There's a basic rule in admissions, now and in the past: "If your grades are the most interesting thing about you, you're not that interesting". People want to keep denying this and talk about merit and objective measures and such, but that's how admissions people think when they look at applications. Scores are a baseline, what did you do with all those smarts? After years of looking at applications, 80% of students look like the same parent-programmed, "I checked these boxes to get into college but I don't really care about any of these things" people. Sorry, but the A minus or B student --or even just the OTHER A plus student - who did something more compelling or at least unique, is going to get the nod every time.

LOL yea right WTF
Expect 15 years to do something compelling.
Getting mostly As and 1550 SAT seems very compelling.

“Mostly As” if your kid is applying to a top school from a high school that isn’t an elite (i.e. Phillips Exeter Academy or Stuyvesant), they better have all As without exception. No excuse not to.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There's a basic rule in admissions, now and in the past: "If your grades are the most interesting thing about you, you're not that interesting". People want to keep denying this and talk about merit and objective measures and such, but that's how admissions people think when they look at applications. Scores are a baseline, what did you do with all those smarts? After years of looking at applications, 80% of students look like the same parent-programmed, "I checked these boxes to get into college but I don't really care about any of these things" people. Sorry, but the A minus or B student --or even just the OTHER A plus student - who did something more compelling or at least unique, is going to get the nod every time.

Kids job in high school is academics first. They should have other outlets. But, come on? What did a 15-year old do with his smarts? Answer: he studied hard and got good grades and test scores. Volunteering and being kind doesn't require smarts. Having mom and dad set-up a non-profit to look good on your apps doesn't require smarts. Having paid experiences at universities in the summer is not smarts.

This 'uniqueness' crap is ridiculous. This is not an audition for an improv class or a talk show host spot---this is admission to elite universities with rigorous academics.

There is a reason the US is ranked so low in the world when it comes to education:

The top 10 countries with the best education are:

1. Germany – 0.94
2. Finland – 0.93
3. Iceland – 0.93
4. New Zealand – 0.93
5. Norway – 0.93
6. United Kingdom – 0.93
7. Australia – 0.92
8. Denmark – 0.92
9. Ireland – 0.92
10. Singapore – 0.92

https://wisevoter.com/country-rankings/education-rankings-by-country/

LOL those countries all have social safety nets. Here, we have 15 year olds working at McDonald’s 20 hours/week to support their families & pay their own expenses.

Google the resources that Finland gives kids at every single school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There's a basic rule in admissions, now and in the past: "If your grades are the most interesting thing about you, you're not that interesting". People want to keep denying this and talk about merit and objective measures and such, but that's how admissions people think when they look at applications. Scores are a baseline, what did you do with all those smarts? After years of looking at applications, 80% of students look like the same parent-programmed, "I checked these boxes to get into college but I don't really care about any of these things" people. Sorry, but the A minus or B student --or even just the OTHER A plus student - who did something more compelling or at least unique, is going to get the nod every time.

Kids job in high school is academics first. They should have other outlets. But, come on? What did a 15-year old do with his smarts? Answer: he studied hard and got good grades and test scores. Volunteering and being kind doesn't require smarts. Having mom and dad set-up a non-profit to look good on your apps doesn't require smarts. Having paid experiences at universities in the summer is not smarts.

This 'uniqueness' crap is ridiculous. This is not an audition for an improv class or a talk show host spot---this is admission to elite universities with rigorous academics.

There is a reason the US is ranked so low in the world when it comes to education:

The top 10 countries with the best education are:

1. Germany – 0.94
2. Finland – 0.93
3. Iceland – 0.93
4. New Zealand – 0.93
5. Norway – 0.93
6. United Kingdom – 0.93
7. Australia – 0.92
8. Denmark – 0.92
9. Ireland – 0.92
10. Singapore – 0.92

https://wisevoter.com/country-rankings/education-rankings-by-country/

Maybe in the countries you listed where kids aren’t distracting by having to save for their own college tuition, at risk of eviction, in violent neighborhoods, etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There's a basic rule in admissions, now and in the past: "If your grades are the most interesting thing about you, you're not that interesting". People want to keep denying this and talk about merit and objective measures and such, but that's how admissions people think when they look at applications. Scores are a baseline, what did you do with all those smarts? After years of looking at applications, 80% of students look like the same parent-programmed, "I checked these boxes to get into college but I don't really care about any of these things" people. Sorry, but the A minus or B student --or even just the OTHER A plus student - who did something more compelling or at least unique, is going to get the nod every time.

Kids job in high school is academics first. They should have other outlets. But, come on? What did a 15-year old do with his smarts? Answer: he studied hard and got good grades and test scores. Volunteering and being kind doesn't require smarts. Having mom and dad set-up a non-profit to look good on your apps doesn't require smarts. Having paid experiences at universities in the summer is not smarts.

This 'uniqueness' crap is ridiculous. This is not an audition for an improv class or a talk show host spot---this is admission to elite universities with rigorous academics.

There is a reason the US is ranked so low in the world when it comes to education:

The top 10 countries with the best education are:

1. Germany – 0.94
2. Finland – 0.93
3. Iceland – 0.93
4. New Zealand – 0.93
5. Norway – 0.93
6. United Kingdom – 0.93
7. Australia – 0.92
8. Denmark – 0.92
9. Ireland – 0.92
10. Singapore – 0.92

https://wisevoter.com/country-rankings/education-rankings-by-country/

LOL those countries all have social safety nets. Here, we have 15 year olds working at McDonald’s 20 hours/week to support their families & pay their own expenses.

Google the resources that Finland gives kids at every single school.

Finland has a law that every school has exactly the same funding and is not allowed to accept more funding of any kind for any reason. If that was the case, schools in DC (that are already given way more money per student than other states by literally thousands per year - e.g. 20k+ per year per student compared to Florida’s 9k) would plummet even further in performance. So it really doesn’t seem like you should be holding Finland as an example in terms of finding or resources.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There's a basic rule in admissions, now and in the past: "If your grades are the most interesting thing about you, you're not that interesting". People want to keep denying this and talk about merit and objective measures and such, but that's how admissions people think when they look at applications. Scores are a baseline, what did you do with all those smarts? After years of looking at applications, 80% of students look like the same parent-programmed, "I checked these boxes to get into college but I don't really care about any of these things" people. Sorry, but the A minus or B student --or even just the OTHER A plus student - who did something more compelling or at least unique, is going to get the nod every time.

Kids job in high school is academics first. They should have other outlets. But, come on? What did a 15-year old do with his smarts? Answer: he studied hard and got good grades and test scores. Volunteering and being kind doesn't require smarts. Having mom and dad set-up a non-profit to look good on your apps doesn't require smarts. Having paid experiences at universities in the summer is not smarts.

This 'uniqueness' crap is ridiculous. This is not an audition for an improv class or a talk show host spot---this is admission to elite universities with rigorous academics.

There is a reason the US is ranked so low in the world when it comes to education:

The top 10 countries with the best education are:

1. Germany – 0.94
2. Finland – 0.93
3. Iceland – 0.93
4. New Zealand – 0.93
5. Norway – 0.93
6. United Kingdom – 0.93
7. Australia – 0.92
8. Denmark – 0.92
9. Ireland – 0.92
10. Singapore – 0.92

https://wisevoter.com/country-rankings/education-rankings-by-country/

The US educates & tests *everyone* from k-12. Including ESOL, disabled & low-income students. Those countries don’t.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There's a basic rule in admissions, now and in the past: "If your grades are the most interesting thing about you, you're not that interesting". People want to keep denying this and talk about merit and objective measures and such, but that's how admissions people think when they look at applications. Scores are a baseline, what did you do with all those smarts? After years of looking at applications, 80% of students look like the same parent-programmed, "I checked these boxes to get into college but I don't really care about any of these things" people. Sorry, but the A minus or B student --or even just the OTHER A plus student - who did something more compelling or at least unique, is going to get the nod every time.

Kids job in high school is academics first. They should have other outlets. But, come on? What did a 15-year old do with his smarts? Answer: he studied hard and got good grades and test scores. Volunteering and being kind doesn't require smarts. Having mom and dad set-up a non-profit to look good on your apps doesn't require smarts. Having paid experiences at universities in the summer is not smarts.

This 'uniqueness' crap is ridiculous. This is not an audition for an improv class or a talk show host spot---this is admission to elite universities with rigorous academics.

There is a reason the US is ranked so low in the world when it comes to education:

The top 10 countries with the best education are:

1. Germany – 0.94
2. Finland – 0.93
3. Iceland – 0.93
4. New Zealand – 0.93
5. Norway – 0.93
6. United Kingdom – 0.93
7. Australia – 0.92
8. Denmark – 0.92
9. Ireland – 0.92
10. Singapore – 0.92

https://wisevoter.com/country-rankings/education-rankings-by-country/

Maybe in the countries you listed where kids aren’t distracting by having to save for their own college tuition, at risk of eviction, in violent neighborhoods, etc.

No, but education works differently in those countries. For example, Germany tracks all students starting around age 10. You can move between the tracks but it’s not that common. They also force all immigrants to pass a German language test before joining schools in Germany.

Finland has no racial diversity and the kids all come to school reading and writing at age 7 by the time they start school. Schools don’t need to do any parenting because the actual parents do that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There's a basic rule in admissions, now and in the past: "If your grades are the most interesting thing about you, you're not that interesting". People want to keep denying this and talk about merit and objective measures and such, but that's how admissions people think when they look at applications. Scores are a baseline, what did you do with all those smarts? After years of looking at applications, 80% of students look like the same parent-programmed, "I checked these boxes to get into college but I don't really care about any of these things" people. Sorry, but the A minus or B student --or even just the OTHER A plus student - who did something more compelling or at least unique, is going to get the nod every time.

Kids job in high school is academics first. They should have other outlets. But, come on? What did a 15-year old do with his smarts? Answer: he studied hard and got good grades and test scores. Volunteering and being kind doesn't require smarts. Having mom and dad set-up a non-profit to look good on your apps doesn't require smarts. Having paid experiences at universities in the summer is not smarts.

This 'uniqueness' crap is ridiculous. This is not an audition for an improv class or a talk show host spot---this is admission to elite universities with rigorous academics.

There is a reason the US is ranked so low in the world when it comes to education:

The top 10 countries with the best education are:

1. Germany – 0.94
2. Finland – 0.93
3. Iceland – 0.93
4. New Zealand – 0.93
5. Norway – 0.93
6. United Kingdom – 0.93
7. Australia – 0.92
8. Denmark – 0.92
9. Ireland – 0.92
10. Singapore – 0.92

https://wisevoter.com/country-rankings/education-rankings-by-country/

Maybe in the countries you listed where kids aren’t distracting by having to save for their own college tuition, at risk of eviction, in violent neighborhoods, etc.

https://www.cnn.com/2023/05/04/us/nations-report-card-us-history-civics/index.html

We have long had an educational problem in this country and our elections show the ignorance and stupidity of the general population.

It's not getting better:

https://www.cnn.com/2023/05/04/us/nations-report-card-us-history-civics/index.html

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There's a basic rule in admissions, now and in the past: "If your grades are the most interesting thing about you, you're not that interesting". People want to keep denying this and talk about merit and objective measures and such, but that's how admissions people think when they look at applications. Scores are a baseline, what did you do with all those smarts? After years of looking at applications, 80% of students look like the same parent-programmed, "I checked these boxes to get into college but I don't really care about any of these things" people. Sorry, but the A minus or B student --or even just the OTHER A plus student - who did something more compelling or at least unique, is going to get the nod every time.

Kids job in high school is academics first. They should have other outlets. But, come on? What did a 15-year old do with his smarts? Answer: he studied hard and got good grades and test scores. Volunteering and being kind doesn't require smarts. Having mom and dad set-up a non-profit to look good on your apps doesn't require smarts. Having paid experiences at universities in the summer is not smarts.

This 'uniqueness' crap is ridiculous. This is not an audition for an improv class or a talk show host spot---this is admission to elite universities with rigorous academics.

There is a reason the US is ranked so low in the world when it comes to education:

The top 10 countries with the best education are:

1. Germany – 0.94
2. Finland – 0.93
3. Iceland – 0.93
4. New Zealand – 0.93
5. Norway – 0.93
6. United Kingdom – 0.93
7. Australia – 0.92
8. Denmark – 0.92
9. Ireland – 0.92
10. Singapore – 0.92

https://wisevoter.com/country-rankings/education-rankings-by-country/

Maybe in the countries you listed where kids aren’t distracting by having to save for their own college tuition, at risk of eviction, in violent neighborhoods, etc.

https://www.cnn.com/2023/05/04/us/nations-report-card-us-history-civics/index.html

We have long had an educational problem in this country and our elections show the ignorance and stupidity of the general population.

It's not getting better:

https://www.cnn.com/2023/05/04/us/nations-report-card-us-history-civics/index.html

^ Cited article
Test scores for 8th-grade students decline in US history and civics following prior declines in math and reading, report says

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There's a basic rule in admissions, now and in the past: "If your grades are the most interesting thing about you, you're not that interesting". People want to keep denying this and talk about merit and objective measures and such, but that's how admissions people think when they look at applications. Scores are a baseline, what did you do with all those smarts? After years of looking at applications, 80% of students look like the same parent-programmed, "I checked these boxes to get into college but I don't really care about any of these things" people. Sorry, but the A minus or B student --or even just the OTHER A plus student - who did something more compelling or at least unique, is going to get the nod every time.

Kids job in high school is academics first. They should have other outlets. But, come on? What did a 15-year old do with his smarts? Answer: he studied hard and got good grades and test scores. Volunteering and being kind doesn't require smarts. Having mom and dad set-up a non-profit to look good on your apps doesn't require smarts. Having paid experiences at universities in the summer is not smarts.

This 'uniqueness' crap is ridiculous. This is not an audition for an improv class or a talk show host spot---this is admission to elite universities with rigorous academics.

There is a reason the US is ranked so low in the world when it comes to education:

The top 10 countries with the best education are:

1. Germany – 0.94
2. Finland – 0.93
3. Iceland – 0.93
4. New Zealand – 0.93
5. Norway – 0.93
6. United Kingdom – 0.93
7. Australia – 0.92
8. Denmark – 0.92
9. Ireland – 0.92
10. Singapore – 0.92

https://wisevoter.com/country-rankings/education-rankings-by-country/

Maybe in the countries you listed where kids aren’t distracting by having to save for their own college tuition, at risk of eviction, in violent neighborhoods, etc.

https://www.cnn.com/2023/05/04/us/nations-report-card-us-history-civics/index.html

We have long had an educational problem in this country and our elections show the ignorance and stupidity of the general population.

It's not getting better:

https://www.cnn.com/2023/05/04/us/nations-report-card-us-history-civics/index.html

^ Cited article
Test scores for 8th-grade students decline in US history and civics following prior declines in math and reading, report says

The majority of US citizens cannot identify the US on a World Map. Not knowing US history and Civics results in things like Jan. 6th.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There's a basic rule in admissions, now and in the past: "If your grades are the most interesting thing about you, you're not that interesting". People want to keep denying this and talk about merit and objective measures and such, but that's how admissions people think when they look at applications. Scores are a baseline, what did you do with all those smarts? After years of looking at applications, 80% of students look like the same parent-programmed, "I checked these boxes to get into college but I don't really care about any of these things" people. Sorry, but the A minus or B student --or even just the OTHER A plus student - who did something more compelling or at least unique, is going to get the nod every time.

Kids job in high school is academics first. They should have other outlets. But, come on? What did a 15-year old do with his smarts? Answer: he studied hard and got good grades and test scores. Volunteering and being kind doesn't require smarts. Having mom and dad set-up a non-profit to look good on your apps doesn't require smarts. Having paid experiences at universities in the summer is not smarts.

This 'uniqueness' crap is ridiculous. This is not an audition for an improv class or a talk show host spot---this is admission to elite universities with rigorous academics.

There is a reason the US is ranked so low in the world when it comes to education:

The top 10 countries with the best education are:

1. Germany – 0.94
2. Finland – 0.93
3. Iceland – 0.93
4. New Zealand – 0.93
5. Norway – 0.93
6. United Kingdom – 0.93
7. Australia – 0.92
8. Denmark – 0.92
9. Ireland – 0.92
10. Singapore – 0.92

https://wisevoter.com/country-rankings/education-rankings-by-country/

LOL those countries all have social safety nets. Here, we have 15 year olds working at McDonald’s 20 hours/week to support their families & pay their own expenses.

Google the resources that Finland gives kids at every single school.

Yep. Not to mention those countries all have universal healthcare