Millennial men pitched themselves as equal partners. What happened?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is a very privileged conversation. If this is the kind of thing that families with top flight professionals with HHI of $300k+ are going through, what the hell are the nannies, housekeepers, and contractors who work for these people experiencing in their own roles as mothers, fathers, and spouses?

A lot of times, those folks live near their families and rely on them for help.

We pay a huge price delaying childbearing until grandparents are too old/sick to help + moving far away from them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I say this as a woman who breastfed (for a while): If you do exclusive breastfeeding you are setting yourself up for a "Mom does everything" dynamic from the get-go.

This right here.

In terms of “what happened?” I’d argue a push to breastfeed is one of main drivers of inequality. The mom is the only one who can feed the baby and is in charge of feeding the baby. Meaning she takes on the emotional labor of when to feed.

This is such BS. As Ive stated before, if you are nursing then Dad can do everything else. But most men don't - why? Its not because of breastfeeding.

Because the hardest and most time consuming job is breastfeeding. Breastfeeding a newborn can take hours and hours every day and throughout the night. It’s all consuming the first few weeks and maybe months. Not the same as changing diapers or whatever else there is to do. Even if dad IS doing other stuff in the house, it’s enforced that mom is in charge of the baby. It’s mom’s baby. Surely you understand that only the mom knows when her breast feels full and that the baby wants mom in order to eat, right?

It’s awesome if you’re someone who was able to breastfeed and not be the primary parent. But most moms cannot pull that off.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I say this as a woman who breastfed (for a while): If you do exclusive breastfeeding you are setting yourself up for a "Mom does everything" dynamic from the get-go.

This right here.

In terms of “what happened?” I’d argue a push to breastfeed is one of main drivers of inequality. The mom is the only one who can feed the baby and is in charge of feeding the baby. Meaning she takes on the emotional labor of when to feed.

This is such BS. As Ive stated before, if you are nursing then Dad can do everything else. But most men don't - why? Its not because of breastfeeding.

I tried the "Dad does everything else" approach and changing diapers, cleaning pump parts etc. is simply NOT the same amount of physically taxing as breastfeeding, sorry. If you want a truly egalitarian partnership from the get-go you have to be flexible on feeding. Just my 2 cents.

+10000

I didn’t breastfeed the second baby and my husband commented multiple times how much harder it was for him since he also was on the hook for feeding the baby. Besides the obvious ability of me to leave the house for extended periods of time and leave him with the baby with no preparations.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My husband is an equal partner. I've never downshifted my career.

Who raised the children? Daycares or nannies?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:IMO It’s because people are specifically socialized *out of* traditional relationships and buy into utopic visions of egalitarianism. Then real life hits and nature reveals herself to be uncompromising, thus the gender roles revert to the old fashioned no-fun way that things have been for thousands of years.

What a steaming pile of nonsense. Take this crap back to 1955 where it belongs, fossil.

[Anonymous]

You're not mad because they don't help more.

You're mad because they don't earn more.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:IMO It’s because people are specifically socialized *out of* traditional relationships and buy into utopic visions of egalitarianism. Then real life hits and nature reveals herself to be uncompromising, thus the gender roles revert to the old fashioned no-fun way that things have been for thousands of years.

What a steaming pile of nonsense. Take this crap back to 1955 where it belongs, fossil.

DP. It’s true if you think about it. There was NO push for equality until birth control became wildly accessible.

Now it seems there is equality until kids come along. There’s no magic pill that can force men to desire to do things that are against their very nature. Yes there are outliers but most men don’t operate like women. None of this matters until kids come into the picture.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You're not mad because they don't help more.

You're mad because they don't earn more.

I do think a lot of women think they want equality. Then they have kids and want a man who earns more. This is hard to admit and accept. Two friends have confided these thoughts with me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My husband is an equal partner. I've never downshifted my career.

Who raised the children? Daycares or nannies?

Do you...know how long kids are in day care for? Do you think kids are raised by 3?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Gen X says hold my beer.
Did I use that right? Probably not, I’m old. Anyway, we also definitely were sold the same bill of goods by guys who purported to be feminists who were looking for career women who would be equal partners yada yada. Fast forward 20 years and they still don’t know where to put away the colander or check the school schedule to find out which days the kids will be off, or know how to check the kids grades online.
From where I sit, you millennials aren’t doing somewhat better. Each generation is a slow grind towards progress.

Amen! Exactly.

When we had a two month old (who I stayed home with) my Gen X husband told our friends he wished he could stay at home with her so he could PLAY HIS ELECTRIC GUITAR ALL DAY. The fact that he had been a father of a newborn for two months living in a little rambler and still thought he would have been able to play his loud guitar a lot made me want to burn his guitar in the fireplace.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I say this as a woman who breastfed (for a while): If you do exclusive breastfeeding you are setting yourself up for a "Mom does everything" dynamic from the get-go.

This right here.

In terms of “what happened?” I’d argue a push to breastfeed is one of main drivers of inequality. The mom is the only one who can feed the baby and is in charge of feeding the baby. Meaning she takes on the emotional labor of when to feed.

I completely disagree. Y'all just married terrible husbands and come from dysfunctional families. OMG!

I EBF for 9 months and breastfed for 3 yrs. My DH was my rock who took care of most of the household chores for the longest time, arranged the outsourcing etc, on a very tight budget, so that I could breastfeed. I pumped one feed so that he could do the 4am feed in the morning and could sleep in. I am shocked to hear ho little DHs are helping. Yikes. Also I am a sahm. Only women disparage my choice. Not only the choice to be a sahm, but they are usually pissed that my DH helps at home a lot.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I say this as a woman who breastfed (for a while): If you do exclusive breastfeeding you are setting yourself up for a "Mom does everything" dynamic from the get-go.

This right here.

In terms of “what happened?” I’d argue a push to breastfeed is one of main drivers of inequality. The mom is the only one who can feed the baby and is in charge of feeding the baby. Meaning she takes on the emotional labor of when to feed.

I completely disagree. Y'all just married terrible husbands and come from dysfunctional families. OMG!

I EBF for 9 months and breastfed for 3 yrs. My DH was my rock who took care of most of the household chores for the longest time, arranged the outsourcing etc, on a very tight budget, so that I could breastfeed. I pumped one feed so that he could do the 4am feed in the morning and could sleep in. I am shocked to hear ho little DHs are helping. Yikes. Also I am a sahm. Only women disparage my choice. Not only the choice to be a sahm, but they are usually pissed that my DH helps at home a lot.

PP. who said my husband didn’t do the same thing you’re did? Sorry but unless you’ve EBF one baby and FF another, you don’t really understand the difference. You’re not in a position to understand what a burden breastfeeding is on a mom because you’ve never FF. It’s comical that you’re bragging about your DH doing household chores.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Gen X says hold my beer.
Did I use that right? Probably not, I’m old. Anyway, we also definitely were sold the same bill of goods by guys who purported to be feminists who were looking for career women who would be equal partners yada yada. Fast forward 20 years and they still don’t know where to put away the colander or check the school schedule to find out which days the kids will be off, or know how to check the kids grades online.
From where I sit, you millennials aren’t doing somewhat better. Each generation is a slow grind towards progress.

Amen! Exactly.

When we had a two month old (who I stayed home with) my Gen X husband told our friends he wished he could stay at home with her so he could PLAY HIS ELECTRIC GUITAR ALL DAY. The fact that he had been a father of a newborn for two months living in a little rambler and still thought he would have been able to play his loud guitar a lot made me want to burn his guitar in the fireplace.

There it is: “little rambler”

The real complaint always comes out, even when not intended.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You're not mad because they don't help more.

You're mad because they don't earn more.

I wrote the OP and it’s very bluntly about men who earn well. What are you talking about?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Maybe men do a ton, an equal share let’s say, but are simply less vocal about their contributions and, especially, their complaints. Women, biologically, are programmed to be more emotional. They’re more chatty. They initiate 70% of divorces and 90% if they’re college educated. They’re more flighty, and variant in temperament, and neurotic in general as has been reported by top scientists. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3149680/

So a woman might complain a lot about feeling the emotional burden of parenthood, and a career, but perhaps that’s just her subjective, emotion-based, rather than a fact-based, objective assessment of her situation, we’re outside observers able to quantify her particular case.

They initiate 70% of divorces because men suck and women tire of putting up with their BS, but then, you already knew that.