Millennial men pitched themselves as equal partners. What happened?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:In UMC white-collar households everything is outsourced for various reasons. In the household I grew up, my dad did 100% of repairs & renovations (built the house I grew up) and I never stepped foot in a daycare. One set of grandparents was daycare. I grew up in my parents’ hometown, which is where all of my grandparents, aunts, uncles and cousins were born & raised too. Lots of social, cultural & economic trends since then.

In my UMC neighborhood “male” chores are heavily outsourced (landscaping, car repairs, home repairs) and “female” chores are less so (every other week cleaning service and some takeout sure but laundry, most dishes, most cleaning are not).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I say this as a woman who breastfed (for a while): If you do exclusive breastfeeding you are setting yourself up for a "Mom does everything" dynamic from the get-go.

This right here.

In terms of “what happened?” I’d argue a push to breastfeed is one of main drivers of inequality. The mom is the only one who can feed the baby and is in charge of feeding the baby. Meaning she takes on the emotional labor of when to feed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Solidly millennial here (35) and I can only think of one person in my orbit that is a SAHM.

The men I know pull their weight within their relationships and with the kids, and both sides of the couple have jobs that are fairly equal (I would say most of us are at about $400k HHI.)

I worked my tail off for my career and my husband and I earn about the same. Why would I give that up? I couldn't be with someone who expected me to downshift my career or step away from the workforce... which is fine... because there are plenty of people with different outlooks on the situation and are better suited for each other.

Solidly millennial male (41) here, and opposite for me. Most in my circle have SAHW. Of the two that don’t: one wife works a couple of shifts at the hospital a week. The incremental money is important to that household. The second wife has some high GS job where she still makes less than 20% what her husband makes. The husband doesn’t get it from a *financial aspect*, but he shrugs his shoulders as that was the deal they made.

I think this is really an assortative mating issue. People who want a a SAH arrangement sort into those circles much earlier and date from that perspective because SAH is correlated with other identities people find important. FWIW, my wife told me on our second date that she would work if the family needed it, but she felt it was her calling to be a mother and we’ve been fortunate enough to live that out.

You are the oldest Millennial.

Very true. I was born in the summer of 1981. I have a good friend with a 1980 birthdate that has been an equity partner at an AMLaw 50 firm for nearly a decade. Millennials firmly entering middle age and our kids will be going off to college soon.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why are millennials (men or women) having kids at all if all they are going to do is fight over who has to take care of them? Really! Why do you have kids? This thread makes me so sad for all these kids.

Your reading comprehension is less than desirable. It is about childcare plus household management and for most of us, plus having dual-income marriages. All three need to be balanced in order to work. Even if one person has a job and the other doesn't to take care of the children means that household stuff is still needing to be balanced. The balance is not childcare + house and working. If two people work and their childcare is outsourced to daycare, then childcare and house need to be taken care of by both outside of working hours.

I would love to work my 8.5 hours and then be with my kid in the morning and afternoon until bed 100% but that means that the cooking, laundry, cleaning, organizing, grocery shopping, etc. all needs to be done 100% by my partner. And then we each have individual time and married time from after kid bedtime - our own bedtimes. What most people are complaining about is the situation where a working mom is doing 90% of the childcare before and after work plus 50% of the housework (or more).

Strongly disagree with this and I think this is a major flaw in modern parenting in liberal circles. The children should be involved in most of this. You can most certainly spend time with your kids while they also help clean, prepare dinner, tidy up etc. You don’t need to entertain your kids like so many modern parents do.

But that gets back to the "why have kids in the first place?!" I had kids because I wanted to play with them, teach them, spend time with them. I want to entertain them.

And yes, I think this is a very modern view on parenting and it's why so many of us are failing. Our parents and grandparents had better work life balances and quality of life because they didn't entertain and play with kids.

I absolutely do not want to entertain my children. Spend time with them and teach them, absolutely. But I think entertaining kids makes for entitled children. It’s much more important to teach your kids to help run the household. This is especially true for the middle class, where there’s no money left for outsourcing.

[Anonymous]

Data doesnt show this.

Most men do not have stay at home moms.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Everyone:

If you are reading this thread, or especially if you responded to it, you really need to consider this article / thread on “most young men are single. Most young men are not.”

https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/1115034.page

The thread is actually "most young men are single. Most young *women* are not." (I haven't read that thread, but PP's typo really confused me!)

The premise of the article was debunked

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Solidly millennial here (35) and I can only think of one person in my orbit that is a SAHM.

The men I know pull their weight within their relationships and with the kids, and both sides of the couple have jobs that are fairly equal (I would say most of us are at about $400k HHI.)

I worked my tail off for my career and my husband and I earn about the same. Why would I give that up? I couldn't be with someone who expected me to downshift my career or step away from the workforce... which is fine... because there are plenty of people with different outlooks on the situation and are better suited for each other.

Solidly millennial male (41) here, and opposite for me. Most in my circle have SAHW. Of the two that don’t: one wife works a couple of shifts at the hospital a week. The incremental money is important to that household. The second wife has some high GS job where she still makes less than 20% what her husband makes. The husband doesn’t get it from a *financial aspect*, but he shrugs his shoulders as that was the deal they made.

I think this is really an assortative mating issue. People who want a a SAH arrangement sort into those circles much earlier and date from that perspective because SAH is correlated with other identities people find important. FWIW, my wife told me on our second date that she would work if the family needed it, but she felt it was her calling to be a mother and we’ve been fortunate enough to live that out.

You are the oldest Millennial.

Very true. I was born in the summer of 1981. I have a good friend with a 1980 birthdate that has been an equity partner at an AMLaw 50 firm for nearly a decade. Millennials firmly entering middle age and our kids will be going off to college soon.

Many milliennials’ kids, yes, but I would be shocked if DCUM millennials fall into that category. No babies before 35 is the standard on here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Data doesnt show this.

Most men do not have stay at home moms.

No one said that?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Data doesnt show this.

Most men do not have stay at home moms.

Most households don’t have a fully SAHM (although a lot do especially with babies and preschool age kids) but there’s a lot of women who are “in and out” of the workforce, going from not working to working full time, then back to part time, independent contracting, etc. This is much more common - maybe not amongst the DCUM top 1% of all earners/top careers but for everyone else, yes.

[Anonymous]

Someone earlier posted that she was a latchkey and babysitter and her childhood would be considered abusive today.

I was born in 1970 and was a latchkey from age 7 when my 10 year old brother supervised me after school until our mom got home. I started babysitting aged 12 for the next door neighbor’s young child (still in diapers when we started), and I was a cottage industry in my community until age 16 when I retired in favor of extracurricular activities in school and also just more time with friends.

My years babysitting were wonderful and taught me SO much - especially about why I wanted to wait to have kids! Before I started babysitting I earned the Girl Scout babysitter badge, and the first year I babysat only for my next door neighbor so my mom was literally a shoot away if I met with any situation I couldn’t handle myself. By age 13 I was fine by myself and on many occasions babysat for a multiple kid family in range of ages from infant to 7/8 years old.

I experienced abuse in my childhood, but babysitting ages 12-16 was one of the best experiences of my life and taught me so much responsibility, plus it let me get a glimpse into how kids were raised in other families which I really needed to see to see beyond my own family’s dynamic.

Do folks here really think it is abusive to let your kids babysit in their preteens and teens?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Data doesnt show this.

Most men do not have stay at home moms.

Most households don’t have a fully SAHM (although a lot do especially with babies and preschool age kids) but there’s a lot of women who are “in and out” of the workforce, going from not working to working full time, then back to part time, independent contracting, etc. This is much more common - maybe not amongst the DCUM top 1% of all earners/top careers but for everyone else, yes.

+1

[Anonymous]

This went way off topic

Again women ask the men to step up and do more if that's what you want

These conversation should be occurring during dating and definitely before kids

Two high powered careers only works if you outsource everything

Two folks can work as long as at least one parent tracks and has time to do more domestically/kid side and. The big point is this does not have to be the woman.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is a very privileged conversation. If this is the kind of thing that families with top flight professionals with HHI of $300k+ are going through, what the hell are the nannies, housekeepers, and contractors who work for these people experiencing in their own roles as mothers, fathers, and spouses?

They are doing shift work, don’t have young kids or are married to someone who does shift work.

This. They also don’t tend to move away from their entire support network.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I say this as a woman who breastfed (for a while): If you do exclusive breastfeeding you are setting yourself up for a "Mom does everything" dynamic from the get-go.

This right here.

In terms of “what happened?” I’d argue a push to breastfeed is one of main drivers of inequality. The mom is the only one who can feed the baby and is in charge of feeding the baby. Meaning she takes on the emotional labor of when to feed.

This is such BS. As Ive stated before, if you are nursing then Dad can do everything else. But most men don't - why? Its not because of breastfeeding.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I say this as a woman who breastfed (for a while): If you do exclusive breastfeeding you are setting yourself up for a "Mom does everything" dynamic from the get-go.

This right here.

In terms of “what happened?” I’d argue a push to breastfeed is one of main drivers of inequality. The mom is the only one who can feed the baby and is in charge of feeding the baby. Meaning she takes on the emotional labor of when to feed.

This is such BS. As Ive stated before, if you are nursing then Dad can do everything else. But most men don't - why? Its not because of breastfeeding.

I tried the "Dad does everything else" approach and changing diapers, cleaning pump parts etc. is simply NOT the same amount of physically taxing as breastfeeding, sorry. If you want a truly egalitarian partnership from the get-go you have to be flexible on feeding. Just my 2 cents.