Anyone else educated by FCPS and sees the decline?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think the older generations are always doom and gloom about school. My dad is livid that kids aren't learning cursive anymore. I couldn't be happier that it's gone.

I understand the suspicion of quality of snippets, materials cobbled together from online sources, etc., but the reality is that with electronic media there is often no reason to have a textbook. As a college professor, I have moved in the last 15 years from relying primarily on a very popular textbook to teaching my class without a textbook. I've read all 8 or so well-known textbooks in the field and I feel that, through powerpoints and assigned brief readings, I am able to outperform any textbook on the topic (students seem to agree). There is no benefit to reading a 50 page chapter in a bloated book that gets key principles incorrect or has not been updated to reflect changing theories or evidence.

I'd also point out that, in response to someone's comment about reading an abridged version of the Odyssey, this happened at both a public AND private school that I attended in the 90s, so this is not new unless you classify the mid-90s as "new."

Finally, while I have been skeptical of the changes to learning, I don't observe that my oldest son is behind where I and my peers were (in an advanced program) in terms of reading, writing, and math. It seems that students can learn to spell and write without memorizing vocabulary/spelling lists for hours every month. I say this is a wonderful development.

I am not sure what field you are in, but as a Humanities professor, I can say that a shocking number of students these days are extremely weak writers. The lack of explicitly grammar and writing instruction has had a profound effect. Yes, some kids can learn to spell simply by reading but many cannot. And I would argue that most kids cannot earn to write well without being taught. Writing instruction should be organized and systematic and start at the elementary level. I personally don't care about cursive or even much about neatness but teaching grammar, vocabulary, how to construct a sentence, then a paragraph-these are very basic building blocks. Putting a blank paper in front of a third grader, handing him a rubric, and saying it's poetry week is not teaching writing!

I can believe that you may be able to outperform all of the available textbooks, but can all the teachers?? Of course, not. Also, there used to be a value to having a text to go back to and reread, even if it was just s to have all the formulas in one place, all the dates easily accessible, all the verb forms and tenses well-organized. I don't know how kids study these days.

I wasn't educated in FCPS-I went to a private school in Massachusetts. But the education I received was immeasurably superior. The demands were greater, the expectations higher. To give a silly example, my highschooler in honors history has taken only multiple choice tests this year. What a waste of an opportunity to teach a kid to think and write critically, in addition to learn the material. Of course it's a lot easier to correct multiple choice and if you have 30 plus kids in every class, you do what you can to survive.

The biggest failing in FCPS (I can't compare to elsewhere). The writing (and reading, frankly) instructions is really bad. I've worked to fill in some of the gaps but it is still a failing. One big reason is that the teachers do not give writing feedback. They give a grade, they hand over a rubric, and expect kids to know what they did wrong. There's no written feedback, no redlining. As someone who did, and does, a lot of writing in school and in my profession, that sort of feedback is critical. It is the single best way to learn to write well. And it's not being done. (Read through other posts and teachers acknowledge this).

I'm sorry, it's shamefully unacceptable. This is a fundamental skill that kids are not being properly taught.

This has just happened to my DS. He's had his first ever English writing assignment in his 9th grade honors class at Langley. His essay was not corrected, and he's not sure how he could have improved his grade (B+). The teacher told the class that last year's class had written four essays by this point, so I assume that the curriculum has changed.

[Anonymous]

FCPS graduate.

Tried FCPS for oldest from K-1. It was as at a well regarded elementary school. K was back in the day of 1/2 day kindergarten - so not much really achieved there. 1st grade was a disaster. Some brilliant admin thought it would be a great idea to give a brand new teacher 16 boys and 7 girls in a class.

Ended up sending the 3 DCs to private school for K-8. We have switched them back to public school for HS. Worked well for oldest and he breezed through high school becoming self sufficient. Second is in high school now, with freshman year being the COVID online year. It was a hard transition, but I chalk that up to COVID and his maturity more than anything. 3rd DC hasn’t gotten to high school yet

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am beginning to welcome our new equity overloads. As standards continue to lower, my kids, with our support, will continue to distance themselves.

Parents who didn’t care enough to support their kids during inequitable times will continue to not care and those in the middle will just get dumber.

I can fill in the gaps for my kids and know they will be ok academically. But I do not welcome a dumber society bc it impacts all of us. Dumb people vote.

And they administer medication, repair cars and airplanes, drive cars, and the list goes on…

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One data point:

My child in Honors 9th grade English at Langley is reading an abridged version of the Odyssey. It’s about 1/3 the length of the original book and the language is simplified.

I read the full book when I was in 9th grade in FCPS and her older cousin also read the full book about 10 years ago in another FCPS high school.

Wow! My 6th grader is reading 2 versions of the Odyssey. She's reading the long version I read in highschool and a graphic novel. She has to write a compare and contrast essay. She's in a private episcopal school.

The Episcopal schools are excellent. Unfortunately they are much more expensive than Catholic schools (no Vatican subsidies) and they cannot offer financial aid to everyone.

[Anonymous]

When did you guys graduate from FCPS? I graduated in the late 2000s and it was already taxpayer-funded babysitting then, and I went to one of the "better" schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We are deeply disappointed with McLean high, even though it was a highly rated school it appears to have fallen over the last few years and it's updated score truly does reflect that it is no longer the 10/10 school it once was. I attribute it to unsupportive school board who are busy taking funding from McLean and putting it towards struggling schools. McLean is a shell of what it once was and the disgusting building and trailers from overcrowding only being to tell the story of it's decline. Sad.

The amount of misunderstanding you're displaying here is astounding. By all measures the White, Asian, and affluent students at McLean are still performing at the top of the district. The updated GS score is absolutely meaningless. West Springfield HS has a 9/10 but the SAT and AP scores out of there are literally below the county average. McLean's AP scores are leading the county besides TJ, and SAT scores fall just short of Langley (also ignoring TJ).

I am writing this to express my deep disappointment and disgust with the state of McLean High School. It is truly disheartening to see the downfall of a once great institution, and I am placing the blame squarely on the decisions made by the school board.

The overcrowding at McLean High School is unacceptable. Students are crammed into classrooms like sardines, with no room to move or learn comfortably. The fact that trailers are being used beyond their lifespan is a disgrace. It is disgusting to see students being taught in conditions that are not only uncomfortable, but also potentially unsafe.

Furthermore, the school itself is falling apart. The facilities are outdated, and the maintenance is subpar. The bathrooms are often in disrepair, and the cafeteria is often unsanitary. These conditions are not only unacceptable but also detrimental to the health and well-being of the students.

Perhaps most concerning is the fact that McLean High School is below state level for algebra 1. This is a major red flag and an indication of the school's downfall. The lack of resources and funding has clearly had a negative impact on the education provided at this school.

It is truly shameful that the school board and FCPS have stolen money away from McLean High School to build shiny new facilities for other schools with more diverse student bodies. This is a clear case of discrimination and neglect towards the students of McLean High School.

I implore the school board and FCPS to take action immediately to rectify these issues. The students of McLean High School deserve better than this. They deserve a safe and comfortable learning environment, with access to the resources and facilities necessary to succeed. It is time for the school board to take responsibility for the downfall of McLean High School and make the necessary changes to ensure that it once again becomes a beacon of excellence.

As parents, we are ashamed of the state of McLean High School, and we have decided to take our children out of the school and enroll them in a private institution. It is a sad day when we must take such drastic measures to ensure our children receive the education they deserve.

You don't understand the data. So many students take algebra 1 in MS in that area that the only people who take the HS algebra state test are the most remedial students.

You are correct

[Anonymous]

DH and I are both FCPS graduates from the mid 1980s.

Parents of FCPS students from 2005-present.

DH was one of the early GT program participants, as was one of my siblings. GT program was initially a pull out enrichment and quasi socialization opportunity for the then often socially maligned bright students to form friendships and be challenged academically - together. GT teachers enjoyed their relatively small group of 5th-6th grade students. GT students met for a class period to work on enrichment projects and accept challenging homework projects.

FCPS thought was that these highly intelligent students would be so utterly bored in upper ES that they’d begin to act out and completely lose interest and pursue a life of delinquency or just about as terrible, not attend college.

Overlay all with a steep population decline particularly in older suburbs, leading to formerly “neighborhood” ES (all walked) and suddenly FCPS had to confront closing schools.

Some did close or get converted to admin or municipal offices.

But circa late 1980s, there was a wave of boundary changes and every ES formerly on chopping block needed a “hook” to boost population and keep the infrastructure viable. Examples include GT/AAP Centers (and levels), TJHSST, Head Start, academies, language immersion, AP v. IB.

I’ve been called overly dramatic when I’ve PP on similar threads, but clearly FCPS newest initiative to view schools through an equity lens means that academic excellence is no longer important; becoming world citizens or other such blather is emphasized. Read a few principal-written mission statements on the official school websites and tell me I’m wrong.

[Anonymous]

PP. I went to college fully prepared, since I had written research papers and did extensive expository writing assignments in English/Government and even elective Theatre Arts classes. I recall long weekends in the local library and typing up my work, citing sources, some crying over missing something fun because I had a deadline.

My DCs have never written a research paper or long form anything.

One DC circa 2020 made a poster board w/ hand written illustrations for a senior year class assignment. Also submitted a YouTube video.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think the older generations are always doom and gloom about school. My dad is livid that kids aren't learning cursive anymore. I couldn't be happier that it's gone.

I understand the suspicion of quality of snippets, materials cobbled together from online sources, etc., but the reality is that with electronic media there is often no reason to have a textbook. As a college professor, I have moved in the last 15 years from relying primarily on a very popular textbook to teaching my class without a textbook. I've read all 8 or so well-known textbooks in the field and I feel that, through powerpoints and assigned brief readings, I am able to outperform any textbook on the topic (students seem to agree). There is no benefit to reading a 50 page chapter in a bloated book that gets key principles incorrect or has not been updated to reflect changing theories or evidence.

I'd also point out that, in response to someone's comment about reading an abridged version of the Odyssey, this happened at both a public AND private school that I attended in the 90s, so this is not new unless you classify the mid-90s as "new."

Finally, while I have been skeptical of the changes to learning, I don't observe that my oldest son is behind where I and my peers were (in an advanced program) in terms of reading, writing, and math. It seems that students can learn to spell and write without memorizing vocabulary/spelling lists for hours every month. I say this is a wonderful development.

I am not sure what field you are in, but as a Humanities professor, I can say that a shocking number of students these days are extremely weak writers. The lack of explicitly grammar and writing instruction has had a profound effect. Yes, some kids can learn to spell simply by reading but many cannot. And I would argue that most kids cannot earn to write well without being taught. Writing instruction should be organized and systematic and start at the elementary level. I personally don't care about cursive or even much about neatness but teaching grammar, vocabulary, how to construct a sentence, then a paragraph-these are very basic building blocks. Putting a blank paper in front of a third grader, handing him a rubric, and saying it's poetry week is not teaching writing!

I can believe that you may be able to outperform all of the available textbooks, but can all the teachers?? Of course, not. Also, there used to be a value to having a text to go back to and reread, even if it was just s to have all the formulas in one place, all the dates easily accessible, all the verb forms and tenses well-organized. I don't know how kids study these days.

I wasn't educated in FCPS-I went to a private school in Massachusetts. But the education I received was immeasurably superior. The demands were greater, the expectations higher. To give a silly example, my highschooler in honors history has taken only multiple choice tests this year. What a waste of an opportunity to teach a kid to think and write critically, in addition to learn the material. Of course it's a lot easier to correct multiple choice and if you have 30 plus kids in every class, you do what you can to survive.

The biggest failing in FCPS (I can't compare to elsewhere). The writing (and reading, frankly) instructions is really bad. I've worked to fill in some of the gaps but it is still a failing. One big reason is that the teachers do not give writing feedback. They give a grade, they hand over a rubric, and expect kids to know what they did wrong. There's no written feedback, no redlining. As someone who did, and does, a lot of writing in school and in my profession, that sort of feedback is critical. It is the single best way to learn to write well. And it's not being done. (Read through other posts and teachers acknowledge this).

I'm sorry, it's shamefully unacceptable. This is a fundamental skill that kids are not being properly taught.

This has just happened to my DS. He's had his first ever English writing assignment in his 9th grade honors class at Langley. His essay was not corrected, and he's not sure how he could have improved his grade (B+). The teacher told the class that last year's class had written four essays by this point, so I assume that the curriculum has changed.

I guess the issue is inconsistency. My kid is at Kilmer MS (AAP) and her English teacher most definitely corrects her essays.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am beginning to welcome our new equity overloads. As standards continue to lower, my kids, with our support, will continue to distance themselves.

Parents who didn’t care enough to support their kids during inequitable times will continue to not care and those in the middle will just get dumber.

I can fill in the gaps for my kids and know they will be ok academically. But I do not welcome a dumber society bc it impacts all of us. Dumb people vote.

And they administer medication, repair cars and airplanes, drive cars, and the list goes on…

Administer medications? Any by the way some of these trade people are not dumb, they have a different set of skills. I went to grad school but I’m not “smart” enough to be an electrician and not burn someone’s house down.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:DH and I are both FCPS graduates from the mid 1980s.

Parents of FCPS students from 2005-present.

DH was one of the early GT program participants, as was one of my siblings. GT program was initially a pull out enrichment and quasi socialization opportunity for the then often socially maligned bright students to form friendships and be challenged academically - together. GT teachers enjoyed their relatively small group of 5th-6th grade students. GT students met for a class period to work on enrichment projects and accept challenging homework projects.

FCPS thought was that these highly intelligent students would be so utterly bored in upper ES that they’d begin to act out and completely lose interest and pursue a life of delinquency or just about as terrible, not attend college.

Overlay all with a steep population decline particularly in older suburbs, leading to formerly “neighborhood” ES (all walked) and suddenly FCPS had to confront closing schools.

Some did close or get converted to admin or municipal offices.

But circa late 1980s, there was a wave of boundary changes and every ES formerly on chopping block needed a “hook” to boost population and keep the infrastructure viable. Examples include GT/AAP Centers (and levels), TJHSST, Head Start, academies, language immersion, AP v. IB.

I’ve been called overly dramatic when I’ve PP on similar threads, but clearly FCPS newest initiative to view schools through an equity lens means that academic excellence is no longer important; becoming world citizens or other such blather is emphasized. Read a few principal-written mission statements on the official school websites and tell me I’m wrong.

This is what gifted was for me too - in Florida in the 90s. I don't remember ever getting any sort of advanced coursework in regular classes but once a week, every week, we'd go to the gifted room and do brain teasers, enrichment projects, Odyssey of the Mind, etc. It's actually interesting that they've shifted from that to providing advanced work in actual core subjects - I don't know which is "better" - but is there a reason so many school districts shifted away from this model?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DH and I are both FCPS graduates from the mid 1980s.

Parents of FCPS students from 2005-present.

DH was one of the early GT program participants, as was one of my siblings. GT program was initially a pull out enrichment and quasi socialization opportunity for the then often socially maligned bright students to form friendships and be challenged academically - together. GT teachers enjoyed their relatively small group of 5th-6th grade students. GT students met for a class period to work on enrichment projects and accept challenging homework projects.

FCPS thought was that these highly intelligent students would be so utterly bored in upper ES that they’d begin to act out and completely lose interest and pursue a life of delinquency or just about as terrible, not attend college.

Overlay all with a steep population decline particularly in older suburbs, leading to formerly “neighborhood” ES (all walked) and suddenly FCPS had to confront closing schools.

Some did close or get converted to admin or municipal offices.

But circa late 1980s, there was a wave of boundary changes and every ES formerly on chopping block needed a “hook” to boost population and keep the infrastructure viable. Examples include GT/AAP Centers (and levels), TJHSST, Head Start, academies, language immersion, AP v. IB.

I’ve been called overly dramatic when I’ve PP on similar threads, but clearly FCPS newest initiative to view schools through an equity lens means that academic excellence is no longer important; becoming world citizens or other such blather is emphasized. Read a few principal-written mission statements on the official school websites and tell me I’m wrong.

This is what gifted was for me too - in Florida in the 90s. I don't remember ever getting any sort of advanced coursework in regular classes but once a week, every week, we'd go to the gifted room and do brain teasers, enrichment projects, Odyssey of the Mind, etc. It's actually interesting that they've shifted from that to providing advanced work in actual core subjects - I don't know which is "better" - but is there a reason so many school districts shifted away from this model?

DP. This was our GT program too, although it varied each year from one period of pull out groups to one day bused to a central school for a whole day of GT pull out programming. I think this is still the way most GT programs are - the AAP center school implementation is pretty unusual.

[Anonymous]

The downfall is the focus on equity instead of academic excellence. FcpS will fund the undesirable schools lucratively but choke off the better schools. it's a form of reverse bussing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The downfall is the focus on equity instead of academic excellence. FcpS will fund the undesirable schools lucratively but choke off the better schools. it's a form of reverse bussing.

You want school systems to stop putting so much emphasis on equity? You need to change federal law and how funding works. You fools keep screaming about the school board but this goes way above the SB or FCPS. You want a school system that doesn’t have to worry about equity? Move to a white UMC area with a small/town system. Boom. Problem solved.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The downfall is the focus on equity instead of academic excellence. FcpS will fund the undesirable schools lucratively but choke off the better schools. it's a form of reverse bussing.

You want school systems to stop putting so much emphasis on equity? You need to change federal law and how funding works. You fools keep screaming about the school board but this goes way above the SB or FCPS. You want a school system that doesn’t have to worry about equity? Move to a white UMC area with a small/town system. Boom. Problem solved.

DP. Worrying about equity by dumbing down classes, making classes easier and graduation requirements lower, lowering standards when some students do not do the work (that's why there's no more homework), etc. is not good for anyone. A school district can focus on both excellence and equity, one does not need to be sacrificed for the other. That's foolish.