schools w/ no merit aid

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Long story short: we will not get any financial aid. We make too much for help but don't make enough to go full pay at a private in a way that leaves any wiggle room.

We are just starting this process, and child is an athlete that is in the midst of recruiting (only D3 at this point b/c of NCAA limits- and FTR I don't care if DC plays a sport or not but she does). I'm looking at the finances of the various schools and was shocked to learn that some of the schools she's been talking to give NO MERIT aid. DC has excellent grades, community service, ECs, and athletics.

I get she's one of many like man others . . . and I know at DC there are no athletic scholarships. But, how are people affording places like Wellesley? Their website and what I'm finding says they give ZERO aid on the basis that, essentially, "everyone there is special."

Yes, she can look elsewhere. And she is. But it is so sad to have to shut down a possibility that would, honestly, be such a perfect fit for her in every way. With room and board, etc. the cost per year is nearly $80K!!!! Two years would eat up more than our 529 has in it. Super bummed to have to limit her.

They are either poor enough to get a lot of aid, rich enough to not need it, or had parents putting away a lot of money from conception.

Well it is no shock that top schools would cost ~$80K/year when my kid would enter college. So we did plan for that and sock away as much as we could from an early age, as we knew we wouldn't qualify for any FA. Had we not been able to do that, our kid would have had to search out more affordable schools.

Congratulations on making enough money to save 320k per kid?

No, it's congratulation on planning. Anyone smart enough to save $160K should be smart enough to know that college will be up to $80K/year in 2022. SO if attending those "Top schools" is important you plan accordingly.
Had we not been able to save enough, I would have set the mindset with my kids that while you can apply to T40 schools, we might not be able to afford them. So, you need to have a balanced list of college choices. To me, the most important part is finding great schools that are affordable to YOU. And there are many, many, many choices available for everyone. The OP has ~$40K/year saved for DD. There are literally hundreds of amazing options that will allow DD to graduate debt free. If only the OP would change their mindset and focus on what's available instead of complaining.

Similarly, I don't buy a house/car/vacation that I can't afford. I live within my means, or deal with the consequences. I don't expect others to compensate me for my lack of planning. OP could likely now cash flow another $10K+/year if they wanted to, based on their statements. So if the Top college is that important, they can do that and take parent loans and pay them off now that they have a higher income. (not saying I'd recommend that, as I actually think that's a bad idea----no school is worth going into debt for). But there are options. Smartest option (IMO) is to find a great school list that is affordable....and many many exist, just not T20 schools.

OP here. I guess I should have been smart enough not to acquire nearly $150K in medical bills due to cancer, as well?

Why don't you just stop with the speculation about what I should have done. We did all we could. And we saved a lot, notwithstanding that.

I never said my child did not have other options and wasn't considering other options. As I said, I grew up dirt poor and went to a non-elite school. I simply lamented HAVING to cross off schools -which are a perfect fit for her- solely based on finances. Especially when we saved aggressively for it. It sounds like people in the middle (too much money, but not enough) just can't go to these schools.

Put that info into css. Health expenses are deducted. Even if it wasn't the base tax year, you can always add a statement of special circumstances.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Long story short: we will not get any financial aid. We make too much for help but don't make enough to go full pay at a private in a way that leaves any wiggle room.

We are just starting this process, and child is an athlete that is in the midst of recruiting (only D3 at this point b/c of NCAA limits- and FTR I don't care if DC plays a sport or not but she does). I'm looking at the finances of the various schools and was shocked to learn that some of the schools she's been talking to give NO MERIT aid. DC has excellent grades, community service, ECs, and athletics.

I get she's one of many like man others . . . and I know at DC there are no athletic scholarships. But, how are people affording places like Wellesley? Their website and what I'm finding says they give ZERO aid on the basis that, essentially, "everyone there is special."

Yes, she can look elsewhere. And she is. But it is so sad to have to shut down a possibility that would, honestly, be such a perfect fit for her in every way. With room and board, etc. the cost per year is nearly $80K!!!! Two years would eat up more than our 529 has in it. Super bummed to have to limit her.

They are either poor enough to get a lot of aid, rich enough to not need it, or had parents putting away a lot of money from conception.

Well it is no shock that top schools would cost ~$80K/year when my kid would enter college. So we did plan for that and sock away as much as we could from an early age, as we knew we wouldn't qualify for any FA. Had we not been able to do that, our kid would have had to search out more affordable schools.

Congratulations on making enough money to save 320k per kid?

No, it's congratulation on planning. Anyone smart enough to save $160K should be smart enough to know that college will be up to $80K/year in 2022. SO if attending those "Top schools" is important you plan accordingly.
Had we not been able to save enough, I would have set the mindset with my kids that while you can apply to T40 schools, we might not be able to afford them. So, you need to have a balanced list of college choices. To me, the most important part is finding great schools that are affordable to YOU. And there are many, many, many choices available for everyone. The OP has ~$40K/year saved for DD. There are literally hundreds of amazing options that will allow DD to graduate debt free. If only the OP would change their mindset and focus on what's available instead of complaining.

Similarly, I don't buy a house/car/vacation that I can't afford. I live within my means, or deal with the consequences. I don't expect others to compensate me for my lack of planning. OP could likely now cash flow another $10K+/year if they wanted to, based on their statements. So if the Top college is that important, they can do that and take parent loans and pay them off now that they have a higher income. (not saying I'd recommend that, as I actually think that's a bad idea----no school is worth going into debt for). But there are options. Smartest option (IMO) is to find a great school list that is affordable....and many many exist, just not T20 schools.

This is such an uber-American, "personal responsibility" thought pattern. So when college costs $200K/year in the future, anyone who didn't "plan" should just be shut out? How about when it gets to a million dollars a year? Are we all good with it only being for the children of Elon Musk and the like and if we can't do it, well then the fault is somehow our own?

It has not always been like this. Private schools have always been more expensive than public, but not to the degree they are now.



Instead of pointing fingers at people for "lack of planning" by saving $300K+ / child, why aren't we demanding to know why the costs are so outrageously impossible for even wealthy people to handle?

You are NOT SHUT OUT. You are simply shut out of the “luxury” product version of college. You feel entitled to a Louis Vuitton degree for your kid on your Coach budget. I’m sorry that you’ve bought into the idea that admissions are the ultimate arbiter of your kids’ merit but there are plenty of affordable options including community college.

That is your reaction to these graphics?

I'm not the PP, but basically yes. College costs are crazy and, being a former FAFSA kid, I'm kinda shocked that OP, who also claims to have been on FA in college, didn't realize that the costs were outpacing inflation and wasn't setting expectations accordingly with their DCs. The number of parents who get to their kids' junior or senior years and have absolutely no idea on how financing college works is stunning.

OP, you have enough money set aside that your DC can land a merit scholarship, attend a great school, and graduate debt free. That would be so great for your kid and an opportunity neither you nor your husband were able to have. Rather than focusing on what probably cannot happen, lean in to the fabulous opportunities your DC can have that many kids are not able to experience.

GL to your DC!

Just my observation, people who were themselves on FA feel the most entitled to aid and are the most blindsided to find out they’re supposed to be able to afford sticker.

Yes, I fall into that category. I think it is because we paid for our own down payments on houses, supporting our elderly parents, expecting no “generational transfer of wealth,” while we see the majority of our DC friends and colleagues not in that situation at all.

But who should be paying this for you? The government? The government needs to allocate its scarce resources to the highest need. The school? The school also needs to consider what is good stewardship of its funds. Merit is by definition not based on need. If all students are meritorious (‘meaning you don’t have to buy higher stats kids with merit aid), what is the good reason to give merit aid to some and not others. Schools like Duke have a few scholarships, UVA has Echols, UNC Chapel Hill has Morehouse, but these are for tippy top academic students. Some student on another thread got a full ride at University of Chicago, probably an exceptional student among exceptional students. But the discounting you hear about, that is to lure desirable (relative the the general student body) students to attend schools most would consider safety or likely schools for those students.

I did not have a generational transfer of wealth other than my parents paid for my undergraduate education at a state school. You can do that for your kids. That is an amazing gift.

It should not cost so much. Tuition rises should not be exceeding inflation.

It’s wrong.

As I already said in this thread, that reflects growing income inequality. The top 10% can afford much more tuition than they could when your parents were paying for college.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
(and FYI, merit money and FA do not come out of other students' tuition so settle down there on that point).

Of course merit money and FA come out of the tuition that others are paying. Where else would the money come from? At most schools, tuition is the main component of the operating budget. Very few schools have the kind of endowment that can cover all the need-based financial aid they give, and those schools are usually ones that don’t give merit aid.

I sympathize with the OP’s frustrations, but the folks who have said that competitive elite schools are luxury goods are correct. It’s best just to think of them that way and move on.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:See also



And no one is supposed to complain or be outraged? We are all just supposed to "plan" for this?

The reality is a family of four making $65k will get great aid. It’s the strivers, the job slaves with newish cars and houses within a decent commute to DC that will be expected to pay $80k a year out of a $170k salary.

OP managed to save $160K or so for one child. They clearly have a very high income.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
(and FYI, merit money and FA do not come out of other students' tuition so settle down there on that point).

Of course merit money and FA come out of the tuition that others are paying. Where else would the money come from? At most schools, tuition is the main component of the operating budget. Very few schools have the kind of endowment that can cover all the need-based financial aid they give, and those schools are usually ones that don’t give merit aid.

I sympathize with the OP’s frustrations, but the folks who have said that competitive elite schools are luxury goods are correct. It’s best just to think of them that way and move on.

https://www.acenet.edu/Documents/Understanding-College-and-University-Endowments.pdf

How are endowments used?
For private nonprofit colleges and universities—and increasingly for public institutions—endowments provide stability, flexibility, and a degree of confidence for the future. … The reliable long-term support from an endowment enables institutions to increase student financial aid, make commitments to senior faculty, initiate pioneering research, develop stronger teaching programs, invest in new technologies, and maintain their libraries, laboratories, and other physical assets.
According to NACUBO, institutions are overwhelmingly spending their endowments on supporting their students; for fiscal year 2020, 65 percent of spending was on student financial aid and academic programs.

https://www.usnews.com/news/education-news/articles/2019-01-31/half-of-all-endowment-spending-by-colleges-supports-financial-aid

Amid a national outcry for higher education institutions to do more to increase access for poor students – especially elite schools with billion-dollar endowments – new data show that nearly half of all endowment spending by colleges and universities supports financial aid.

"This was the largest single area of endowment spending," Susan Whealler Johnston, president and CEO of the National Association of College and University Business Officers, said this week in a call with reporters. "This clearly demonstrates the deep commitment colleges and universities make to support financial aid and student success."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
(and FYI, merit money and FA do not come out of other students' tuition so settle down there on that point).

Of course merit money and FA come out of the tuition that others are paying. Where else would the money come from? At most schools, tuition is the main component of the operating budget. Very few schools have the kind of endowment that can cover all the need-based financial aid they give, and those schools are usually ones that don’t give merit aid.

I sympathize with the OP’s frustrations, but the folks who have said that competitive elite schools are luxury goods are correct. It’s best just to think of them that way and move on.

https://www.acenet.edu/Documents/Understanding-College-and-University-Endowments.pdf

How are endowments used?
For private nonprofit colleges and universities—and increasingly for public institutions—endowments provide stability, flexibility, and a degree of confidence for the future. … The reliable long-term support from an endowment enables institutions to increase student financial aid, make commitments to senior faculty, initiate pioneering research, develop stronger teaching programs, invest in new technologies, and maintain their libraries, laboratories, and other physical assets.
According to NACUBO, institutions are overwhelmingly spending their endowments on supporting their students; for fiscal year 2020, 65 percent of spending was on student financial aid and academic programs.

https://www.usnews.com/news/education-news/articles/2019-01-31/half-of-all-endowment-spending-by-colleges-supports-financial-aid

Amid a national outcry for higher education institutions to do more to increase access for poor students – especially elite schools with billion-dollar endowments – new data show that nearly half of all endowment spending by colleges and universities supports financial aid.

"This was the largest single area of endowment spending," Susan Whealler Johnston, president and CEO of the National Association of College and University Business Officers, said this week in a call with reporters. "This clearly demonstrates the deep commitment colleges and universities make to support financial aid and student success."

PP here. This quote says that universities use their endowments for financial aid, but it doesn’t say that they cover all of their financial aid spending through their endowments. I would bet that very few universities are able to do that. Except for the schools at the very top of the endowment heap, every university is tuition-dependent. At most private universities, people paying full tuition are subsidizing people who are paying less. And at public universities, people paying out-of-state tuition are subsidizing in-state students.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Long story short: we will not get any financial aid. We make too much for help but don't make enough to go full pay at a private in a way that leaves any wiggle room.

We are just starting this process, and child is an athlete that is in the midst of recruiting (only D3 at this point b/c of NCAA limits- and FTR I don't care if DC plays a sport or not but she does). I'm looking at the finances of the various schools and was shocked to learn that some of the schools she's been talking to give NO MERIT aid. DC has excellent grades, community service, ECs, and athletics.

I get she's one of many like man others . . . and I know at DC there are no athletic scholarships. But, how are people affording places like Wellesley? Their website and what I'm finding says they give ZERO aid on the basis that, essentially, "everyone there is special."

Yes, she can look elsewhere. And she is. But it is so sad to have to shut down a possibility that would, honestly, be such a perfect fit for her in every way. With room and board, etc. the cost per year is nearly $80K!!!! Two years would eat up more than our 529 has in it. Super bummed to have to limit her.

They are either poor enough to get a lot of aid, rich enough to not need it, or had parents putting away a lot of money from conception.

Well it is no shock that top schools would cost ~$80K/year when my kid would enter college. So we did plan for that and sock away as much as we could from an early age, as we knew we wouldn't qualify for any FA. Had we not been able to do that, our kid would have had to search out more affordable schools.

Congratulations on making enough money to save 320k per kid?

No, it's congratulation on planning. Anyone smart enough to save $160K should be smart enough to know that college will be up to $80K/year in 2022. SO if attending those "Top schools" is important you plan accordingly.
Had we not been able to save enough, I would have set the mindset with my kids that while you can apply to T40 schools, we might not be able to afford them. So, you need to have a balanced list of college choices. To me, the most important part is finding great schools that are affordable to YOU. And there are many, many, many choices available for everyone. The OP has ~$40K/year saved for DD. There are literally hundreds of amazing options that will allow DD to graduate debt free. If only the OP would change their mindset and focus on what's available instead of complaining.

Similarly, I don't buy a house/car/vacation that I can't afford. I live within my means, or deal with the consequences. I don't expect others to compensate me for my lack of planning. OP could likely now cash flow another $10K+/year if they wanted to, based on their statements. So if the Top college is that important, they can do that and take parent loans and pay them off now that they have a higher income. (not saying I'd recommend that, as I actually think that's a bad idea----no school is worth going into debt for). But there are options. Smartest option (IMO) is to find a great school list that is affordable....and many many exist, just not T20 schools.

This is such an uber-American, "personal responsibility" thought pattern. So when college costs $200K/year in the future, anyone who didn't "plan" should just be shut out? How about when it gets to a million dollars a year? Are we all good with it only being for the children of Elon Musk and the like and if we can't do it, well then the fault is somehow our own?

It has not always been like this. Private schools have always been more expensive than public, but not to the degree they are now.



Instead of pointing fingers at people for "lack of planning" by saving $300K+ / child, why aren't we demanding to know why the costs are so outrageously impossible for even wealthy people to handle?

You are NOT SHUT OUT. You are simply shut out of the “luxury” product version of college. You feel entitled to a Louis Vuitton degree for your kid on your Coach budget. I’m sorry that you’ve bought into the idea that admissions are the ultimate arbiter of your kids’ merit but there are plenty of affordable options including community college.

That is your reaction to these graphics?

My reaction to the graphics is that they’re stupid because they compare low income kids to sticker tuition. We all know that’s not the beef on DCUM. The complaint is that high income people are supposed to fork over their wealth. We all know low income people are getting majorly subsidized by the DCUM set so their incomes are irrelevant.

These graphs are also just another way of showing growing income inequality and how schools have fully seized the opportunity to take from the wealthy. Due to the inequality, they know there’s more money to take, and they are taking it.

That's not what they depict. It's not about low-income kids and sticker tuition. It's about tuition relative to HHI (in all classes). High income people have always forked over their wealth; it just wasn't as much in the past (yes, including for private schools).

The point of this thread is that college tuition raises have so greatly outstripped inflation and salary growth that it's priced out many people who otherwise could have afforded full tuition in the past. Colleges are not BMWs or Maseratis or Hondas. They are institutions of higher education. It's become a real burden for most working families, whether upper middle or lower middle class, to pay for higher education. Not being able to afford a luxury car is not a burden, but for many people, not being able to afford a college that our grandparents (who made less money, adjusted for inflation) could have paid for easily is a burden.

In my generation (I'm 61yo), the cost of attendance could be covered from savings, current income, the student's summer earnings, work study, and some modest loans. E.g. the expensive private SLAC I attended cost about $8,000 when I started in 1979, and I contributed about 25% of that from my summer work. Proportionally, a student today would have to contribute $20,000 to make the same dent in the same school's costs.

Adjusted for inflation, $8,000.00 in 1979 is equal to $32,838 today in 2023. But that school now costs over $80,000/year.

See also

https://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2014/04/the-myth-of-working-your-way-through-college/359735/

Once upon a time, a summer spent scooping ice cream could pay for a year of college. Today, the average student's annual tuition is equivalent to 991 hours behind the counter.

Yeah well my grandpa drove a truck and my grandma dropped out of high school at 15 to wait tables. My mom also dropped out of high school to work at KFC to fry chicken. I worked year round to pay for a state flagship you clearly look down on. I really have no sympathy for the fact that you feel entitled to your grandparents’ private school but didn’t successfully leverage all that generational privilege to afford. Actually, I’ll be honest. I’m effing thrilled you can’t have it. I hope all your spots go to first gen kids. Now you know. It was never a meritocracy. It was always something your crusty ass relatives were hoarding while pretending they earned it.

Actually, the opposite is true: It's hoarded now. It was not hoarded by anyone a few generations ago.

NP.

You must be a white man.

[Anonymous]

You are seeing it wrong. Merit is not meant to reward a student for their hard work. Merit is used by schools as a strategy to increase yield of students they want at their school. Who these students are is determined by each school. Most typically it is students who are at the top of their applicant pool who would likely get into more prestigious schools. So yes, your daughter might get into Wellesley but they don’t need her to increase yield. Set your budget and plan accordingly. Do your research. That you are just realizing this shows you have not done the work as a parent with a budget to set realistic expectations for your child.

[Anonymous]

If DD really wants this school, there is always ROTC

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
(and FYI, merit money and FA do not come out of other students' tuition so settle down there on that point).

Of course merit money and FA come out of the tuition that others are paying. Where else would the money come from? At most schools, tuition is the main component of the operating budget. Very few schools have the kind of endowment that can cover all the need-based financial aid they give, and those schools are usually ones that don’t give merit aid.

I sympathize with the OP’s frustrations, but the folks who have said that competitive elite schools are luxury goods are correct. It’s best just to think of them that way and move on.

https://www.acenet.edu/Documents/Understanding-College-and-University-Endowments.pdf

How are endowments used?
For private nonprofit colleges and universities—and increasingly for public institutions—endowments provide stability, flexibility, and a degree of confidence for the future. … The reliable long-term support from an endowment enables institutions to increase student financial aid, make commitments to senior faculty, initiate pioneering research, develop stronger teaching programs, invest in new technologies, and maintain their libraries, laboratories, and other physical assets.
According to NACUBO, institutions are overwhelmingly spending their endowments on supporting their students; for fiscal year 2020, 65 percent of spending was on student financial aid and academic programs.

https://www.usnews.com/news/education-news/articles/2019-01-31/half-of-all-endowment-spending-by-colleges-supports-financial-aid

Amid a national outcry for higher education institutions to do more to increase access for poor students – especially elite schools with billion-dollar endowments – new data show that nearly half of all endowment spending by colleges and universities supports financial aid.

"This was the largest single area of endowment spending," Susan Whealler Johnston, president and CEO of the National Association of College and University Business Officers, said this week in a call with reporters. "This clearly demonstrates the deep commitment colleges and universities make to support financial aid and student success."

PP here. This quote says that universities use their endowments for financial aid, but it doesn’t say that they cover all of their financial aid spending through their endowments. I would bet that very few universities are able to do that. Except for the schools at the very top of the endowment heap, every university is tuition-dependent. At most private universities, people paying full tuition are subsidizing people who are paying less. And at public universities, people paying out-of-state tuition are subsidizing in-state students.

These quotes are from press releases. Of course they say that colleges are wonderful and caring. These are promotional advertisements.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Long story short: we will not get any financial aid. We make too much for help but don't make enough to go full pay at a private in a way that leaves any wiggle room.

We are just starting this process, and child is an athlete that is in the midst of recruiting (only D3 at this point b/c of NCAA limits- and FTR I don't care if DC plays a sport or not but she does). I'm looking at the finances of the various schools and was shocked to learn that some of the schools she's been talking to give NO MERIT aid. DC has excellent grades, community service, ECs, and athletics.

I get she's one of many like man others . . . and I know at DC there are no athletic scholarships. But, how are people affording places like Wellesley? Their website and what I'm finding says they give ZERO aid on the basis that, essentially, "everyone there is special."

Yes, she can look elsewhere. And she is. But it is so sad to have to shut down a possibility that would, honestly, be such a perfect fit for her in every way. With room and board, etc. the cost per year is nearly $80K!!!! Two years would eat up more than our 529 has in it. Super bummed to have to limit her.

They are either poor enough to get a lot of aid, rich enough to not need it, or had parents putting away a lot of money from conception.

Well it is no shock that top schools would cost ~$80K/year when my kid would enter college. So we did plan for that and sock away as much as we could from an early age, as we knew we wouldn't qualify for any FA. Had we not been able to do that, our kid would have had to search out more affordable schools.

Congratulations on making enough money to save 320k per kid?

No, it's congratulation on planning. Anyone smart enough to save $160K should be smart enough to know that college will be up to $80K/year in 2022. SO if attending those "Top schools" is important you plan accordingly.
Had we not been able to save enough, I would have set the mindset with my kids that while you can apply to T40 schools, we might not be able to afford them. So, you need to have a balanced list of college choices. To me, the most important part is finding great schools that are affordable to YOU. And there are many, many, many choices available for everyone. The OP has ~$40K/year saved for DD. There are literally hundreds of amazing options that will allow DD to graduate debt free. If only the OP would change their mindset and focus on what's available instead of complaining.

Similarly, I don't buy a house/car/vacation that I can't afford. I live within my means, or deal with the consequences. I don't expect others to compensate me for my lack of planning. OP could likely now cash flow another $10K+/year if they wanted to, based on their statements. So if the Top college is that important, they can do that and take parent loans and pay them off now that they have a higher income. (not saying I'd recommend that, as I actually think that's a bad idea----no school is worth going into debt for). But there are options. Smartest option (IMO) is to find a great school list that is affordable....and many many exist, just not T20 schools.

This is such an uber-American, "personal responsibility" thought pattern. So when college costs $200K/year in the future, anyone who didn't "plan" should just be shut out? How about when it gets to a million dollars a year? Are we all good with it only being for the children of Elon Musk and the like and if we can't do it, well then the fault is somehow our own?

It has not always been like this. Private schools have always been more expensive than public, but not to the degree they are now.



Instead of pointing fingers at people for "lack of planning" by saving $300K+ / child, why aren't we demanding to know why the costs are so outrageously impossible for even wealthy people to handle?

You are NOT SHUT OUT. You are simply shut out of the “luxury” product version of college. You feel entitled to a Louis Vuitton degree for your kid on your Coach budget. I’m sorry that you’ve bought into the idea that admissions are the ultimate arbiter of your kids’ merit but there are plenty of affordable options including community college.

That is your reaction to these graphics?

I'm not the PP, but basically yes. College costs are crazy and, being a former FAFSA kid, I'm kinda shocked that OP, who also claims to have been on FA in college, didn't realize that the costs were outpacing inflation and wasn't setting expectations accordingly with their DCs. The number of parents who get to their kids' junior or senior years and have absolutely no idea on how financing college works is stunning.

OP, you have enough money set aside that your DC can land a merit scholarship, attend a great school, and graduate debt free. That would be so great for your kid and an opportunity neither you nor your husband were able to have. Rather than focusing on what probably cannot happen, lean in to the fabulous opportunities your DC can have that many kids are not able to experience.

GL to your DC!

Just my observation, people who were themselves on FA feel the most entitled to aid and are the most blindsided to find out they’re supposed to be able to afford sticker.

Yes, I fall into that category. I think it is because we paid for our own down payments on houses, supporting our elderly parents, expecting no “generational transfer of wealth,” while we see the majority of our DC friends and colleagues not in that situation at all.

But who should be paying this for you? The government? The government needs to allocate its scarce resources to the highest need. The school? The school also needs to consider what is good stewardship of its funds. Merit is by definition not based on need. If all students are meritorious (‘meaning you don’t have to buy higher stats kids with merit aid), what is the good reason to give merit aid to some and not others. Schools like Duke have a few scholarships, UVA has Echols, UNC Chapel Hill has Morehouse, but these are for tippy top academic students. Some student on another thread got a full ride at University of Chicago, probably an exceptional student among exceptional students. But the discounting you hear about, that is to lure desirable (relative the the general student body) students to attend schools most would consider safety or likely schools for those students.

I did not have a generational transfer of wealth other than my parents paid for my undergraduate education at a state school. You can do that for your kids. That is an amazing gift.

It should not cost so much. Tuition rises should not be exceeding inflation.

It’s wrong.

As I already said in this thread, that reflects growing income inequality. The top 10% can afford much more tuition than they could when your parents were paying for college.

We are in vehement agreement. It's wrong. Studies all show that education is critical to a productive life and economic security just as healthcare, housing, and food are. Comparing it to luxury cars and vacations is a false equivalence.

[Anonymous]

A little tough love.
My perfect house would be a $3 million mini mansion on an acre of land but I'm ok with my 70s split level.
My perfect vacation would be Hawaii, but we're going to Rehoboth instead.

Colleges that you can't afford are NOT "perfect fits." It doesn't mean that you've failed your child by not saving more, but it also doesn't mean that the system is inherently unfair--some things are just out of your price range. There's a reason why the vast majority of students look at their public in-state options.

[Anonymous]

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And no one is supposed to complain or be outraged? We are all just supposed to "plan" for this?

The reality is a family of four making $65k will get great aid. It’s the strivers, the job slaves with newish cars and houses within a decent commute to DC that will be expected to pay $80k a year out of a $170k salary.

OP managed to save $160K or so for one child. They clearly have a very high income.

THIS^^^
That is privilege. They are just upset that others have more than them. They can likely find a way to pay 80K/year with minimal loans with a HHI of 200K+. If they really wanted to. Cash flow 20-25K/year and take the rest in loans and pay it off once kid graduates. Personally, I wouldn't take loans or try to cash flow that much, I'd send my kid to a school I could afford, because there are literally hundreds of excellent schools that met their financial criteria. But if they really desire a "top" school, they could afford it.

[Anonymous]

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(and FYI, merit money and FA do not come out of other students' tuition so settle down there on that point).

Of course merit money and FA come out of the tuition that others are paying. Where else would the money come from? At most schools, tuition is the main component of the operating budget. Very few schools have the kind of endowment that can cover all the need-based financial aid they give, and those schools are usually ones that don’t give merit aid.

I sympathize with the OP’s frustrations, but the folks who have said that competitive elite schools are luxury goods are correct. It’s best just to think of them that way and move on.

https://www.acenet.edu/Documents/Understanding-College-and-University-Endowments.pdf

How are endowments used?
For private nonprofit colleges and universities—and increasingly for public institutions—endowments provide stability, flexibility, and a degree of confidence for the future. … The reliable long-term support from an endowment enables institutions to increase student financial aid, make commitments to senior faculty, initiate pioneering research, develop stronger teaching programs, invest in new technologies, and maintain their libraries, laboratories, and other physical assets.
According to NACUBO, institutions are overwhelmingly spending their endowments on supporting their students; for fiscal year 2020, 65 percent of spending was on student financial aid and academic programs.

https://www.usnews.com/news/education-news/articles/2019-01-31/half-of-all-endowment-spending-by-colleges-supports-financial-aid

Amid a national outcry for higher education institutions to do more to increase access for poor students – especially elite schools with billion-dollar endowments – new data show that nearly half of all endowment spending by colleges and universities supports financial aid.

"This was the largest single area of endowment spending," Susan Whealler Johnston, president and CEO of the National Association of College and University Business Officers, said this week in a call with reporters. "This clearly demonstrates the deep commitment colleges and universities make to support financial aid and student success."

PP here. This quote says that universities use their endowments for financial aid, but it doesn’t say that they cover all of their financial aid spending through their endowments. I would bet that very few universities are able to do that. Except for the schools at the very top of the endowment heap, every university is tuition-dependent. At most private universities, people paying full tuition are subsidizing people who are paying less. And at public universities, people paying out-of-state tuition are subsidizing in-state students.

Exactly! Without the Full Pay students, there would be less merit available at most schools. It's a balancing act of kids who get FA, kids who get only merit and Full Pay kids. Even if we got rid of ED (where many are full pay), schools would still aim to fill X% of their slots with Full pay kids (and it's easy to figure out who will be FP). Universities are a business, their goals will be to function out of the Red.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Long story short: we will not get any financial aid. We make too much for help but don't make enough to go full pay at a private in a way that leaves any wiggle room.

We are just starting this process, and child is an athlete that is in the midst of recruiting (only D3 at this point b/c of NCAA limits- and FTR I don't care if DC plays a sport or not but she does). I'm looking at the finances of the various schools and was shocked to learn that some of the schools she's been talking to give NO MERIT aid. DC has excellent grades, community service, ECs, and athletics.

I get she's one of many like man others . . . and I know at DC there are no athletic scholarships. But, how are people affording places like Wellesley? Their website and what I'm finding says they give ZERO aid on the basis that, essentially, "everyone there is special."

Yes, she can look elsewhere. And she is. But it is so sad to have to shut down a possibility that would, honestly, be such a perfect fit for her in every way. With room and board, etc. the cost per year is nearly $80K!!!! Two years would eat up more than our 529 has in it. Super bummed to have to limit her.

They are either poor enough to get a lot of aid, rich enough to not need it, or had parents putting away a lot of money from conception.

Well it is no shock that top schools would cost ~$80K/year when my kid would enter college. So we did plan for that and sock away as much as we could from an early age, as we knew we wouldn't qualify for any FA. Had we not been able to do that, our kid would have had to search out more affordable schools.

Congratulations on making enough money to save 320k per kid?

No, it's congratulation on planning. Anyone smart enough to save $160K should be smart enough to know that college will be up to $80K/year in 2022. SO if attending those "Top schools" is important you plan accordingly.
Had we not been able to save enough, I would have set the mindset with my kids that while you can apply to T40 schools, we might not be able to afford them. So, you need to have a balanced list of college choices. To me, the most important part is finding great schools that are affordable to YOU. And there are many, many, many choices available for everyone. The OP has ~$40K/year saved for DD. There are literally hundreds of amazing options that will allow DD to graduate debt free. If only the OP would change their mindset and focus on what's available instead of complaining.

Similarly, I don't buy a house/car/vacation that I can't afford. I live within my means, or deal with the consequences. I don't expect others to compensate me for my lack of planning. OP could likely now cash flow another $10K+/year if they wanted to, based on their statements. So if the Top college is that important, they can do that and take parent loans and pay them off now that they have a higher income. (not saying I'd recommend that, as I actually think that's a bad idea----no school is worth going into debt for). But there are options. Smartest option (IMO) is to find a great school list that is affordable....and many many exist, just not T20 schools.

This is such an uber-American, "personal responsibility" thought pattern. So when college costs $200K/year in the future, anyone who didn't "plan" should just be shut out? How about when it gets to a million dollars a year? Are we all good with it only being for the children of Elon Musk and the like and if we can't do it, well then the fault is somehow our own?

It has not always been like this. Private schools have always been more expensive than public, but not to the degree they are now.



Instead of pointing fingers at people for "lack of planning" by saving $300K+ / child, why aren't we demanding to know why the costs are so outrageously impossible for even wealthy people to handle?

You are NOT SHUT OUT. You are simply shut out of the “luxury” product version of college. You feel entitled to a Louis Vuitton degree for your kid on your Coach budget. I’m sorry that you’ve bought into the idea that admissions are the ultimate arbiter of your kids’ merit but there are plenty of affordable options including community college.

That is your reaction to these graphics?

I'm not the PP, but basically yes. College costs are crazy and, being a former FAFSA kid, I'm kinda shocked that OP, who also claims to have been on FA in college, didn't realize that the costs were outpacing inflation and wasn't setting expectations accordingly with their DCs. The number of parents who get to their kids' junior or senior years and have absolutely no idea on how financing college works is stunning.

OP, you have enough money set aside that your DC can land a merit scholarship, attend a great school, and graduate debt free. That would be so great for your kid and an opportunity neither you nor your husband were able to have. Rather than focusing on what probably cannot happen, lean in to the fabulous opportunities your DC can have that many kids are not able to experience.

GL to your DC!

Just my observation, people who were themselves on FA feel the most entitled to aid and are the most blindsided to find out they’re supposed to be able to afford sticker.

Yes, I fall into that category. I think it is because we paid for our own down payments on houses, supporting our elderly parents, expecting no “generational transfer of wealth,” while we see the majority of our DC friends and colleagues not in that situation at all.

But who should be paying this for you? The government? The government needs to allocate its scarce resources to the highest need. The school? The school also needs to consider what is good stewardship of its funds. Merit is by definition not based on need. If all students are meritorious (‘meaning you don’t have to buy higher stats kids with merit aid), what is the good reason to give merit aid to some and not others. Schools like Duke have a few scholarships, UVA has Echols, UNC Chapel Hill has Morehouse, but these are for tippy top academic students. Some student on another thread got a full ride at University of Chicago, probably an exceptional student among exceptional students. But the discounting you hear about, that is to lure desirable (relative the the general student body) students to attend schools most would consider safety or likely schools for those students.

I did not have a generational transfer of wealth other than my parents paid for my undergraduate education at a state school. You can do that for your kids. That is an amazing gift.

It should not cost so much. Tuition rises should not be exceeding inflation.

It’s wrong.

As I already said in this thread, that reflects growing income inequality. The top 10% can afford much more tuition than they could when your parents were paying for college.

We are in vehement agreement. It's wrong. Studies all show that education is critical to a productive life and economic security just as healthcare, housing, and food are. Comparing it to luxury cars and vacations is a false equivalence.

No it's not a false equivalence. Of course education is critical. Nothing is preventing you from getting a great education (except maybe your own false notions). There are LITERALLY Hundreds of excellent schools that do not cost $80K/year. Nobody is stopping your kid from getting an education, except you who sets up the mentality that it's "IVY/Stanford/T20 or bust".

If you have stats for a T20/Top SLAC, you will find plenty of universities that will provide that education at a rate you can afford.