Anonymous wrote:OP there are lots of people on this board who simply hate greek life and can't imagine why anyone would do it. Got news for you, many of them don't even have kids in college and once they do, their kid may well be interested themselves. Why? because it's a way to make a large college smaller, to find "your people" which we are always talking about on this board. It's much easier to find your people in a group of 200 sorority sisters, as opposed to 15,000 under grads.
It's also just fun. They have an active social life, lots of parties and activities including charity events, and there are lots of leadership opportunities.
And again, there is a huge emphasis on diversity in greek life these days. These are not white blond girls anymore, though I can't speak for the SEC schools. My DDs house represents every ethnicity on campus and is a home for all their members, from the studious to the party girl and everyone in between. She has met a group of girls that she really enjoys being around (especially the older girls) and never would have met them had it not been for her sorority.
In reality, it's not much different than any other social club or even sports, or academic etc. Yes the rush process is tough, and that's because there are SO many people interested. When you have 15 houses and a thousand people interested, you are going to have to have a selection process.
Actually, my kids have always steered clear of groups and organizations that cause drama, treat people unfairly, and judge others based on superficial traits. They have done this since ES, when they quickly realized the Queen Bees were downright mean to many kids and excluded them and made fun of them. While my kid was not excluded, they were smart enough to realize this was wrong and didn't join those groups. Similarly in MS and HS, steered clear of the "mean girls" and "popular crowd" where your status could change daily. She watched a good friend go thru it in HS and just supported her; watched the friend wander around alone at Homecoming because she'd been ditched by the "popular friends" yet wouldn't/couldn't talk to her other group of friends 4 of them for fear of being further excluded from the popular group. My kid is nice enough to remain good friends with this girl, and just be there when she "has the time for her and that group of friends", but they all hurt watching the friend deal with the ups/downs/meanness of the popular group and wish she could see she doesn't have to do that to herself.
I wonder if your kids inherited your superiority complex? The women in my sorority weren’t half as judgmental as you demonstrated yourself to be in one post.
Nothing judgmental at all. These are simply the facts of what was happening. And yes, HS students who would ditch a person from their group if they "talk/associate" with kids who are not part of the "popular crowd" are nasty, mean kids. My kid and their friends literally watched their good friend wandering around ALONE at Homecoming but too afraid to associate with them, despite their best attempts. They witness this everyday at school as well, but yet this friend will Hang with them outside school (when schedule allows), went on a "senior getaway" with them, just not during the prized senior week. Sorry for you if you view this as normal, but it's not.
Similarly, if you think the queen bees who start controlling groups and being downright mean by excluding other girls in ES are normal, then you have issues. My kids were taught to be inclusive and kind. Not everyone is apparently.
Holy lack of self awareness!
Can you expand upon your criticism of pp's comment? Is it that you want more tolerance of intolerance? Less judging of a judgmental process? Not to put words in your mouth but would like to understand.
Anyone who broadly stereotypes based on perceived social group is judgmental. Pp continues to insist that her children are perfect and any child who is popular is mean and exclusionary. It doesn’t take much emotional intelligence to see this in her posts. Life simply isn’t that black and white, and even if it was, I personally find her need to put down other children while describing her own as perfect odd. Adults shouldn’t be so invested in the k-12 social scene.
You need better reading comprehension.
Never did I say my kid is "perfect", far from it. However, if my kid were to be mean to others I would work hard to put a stop to it, by educating my kid/having discussions. It is not acceptable to allow your 2nd/3rd grader to be mean to others and exclude others, encourage others to not play with/associate with another 2nd/3rd grader. My kids knew they didn't have to like everyone, but that being mean is not acceptable. We worked hard to teach our kids to try to include everyone. I also witnessed these events/behaviors while actively volunteering during ES, so it's not just a 7yo story or a stereotype, I've witnessed it. It's called parenting. If you think those behaviors are acceptable and just a normal part of life, then I feel sorry for your kids.
Also I never said any child who is popular is "mean and exclusionary". However, providing details of real life facts of what my kids have witnessed is not "judgmental". It's facts, and not a stereotype.
When my daughter and 2 of her 3 best friends come home from homecoming and spend an hour discussing how sad they were for the 3rd friend who seemed so sad/miserable at homecoming (was crying at homecoming and left to wander alone and wouldn't join them), I will listen to the discussion. Yes, I know that my kid and the other 2 friends would never ditch another friend at any event, no matter what happened. That isn't me saying my kid is perfect (she's not). It's me stating my teen/young adult has grown up with empathy and the ability to be nice. If that bothers you so much, maybe you need to look deep and try to understand why it does.
FWIW, I don't care if my kid is "popular" or not. What matters most to me is that my kid is a genuinely nice person with empathy for others, even when it's not the "easy choice". So yes, I am proud that time and time again, when my kid has witnessed drama (my kid is a competitive dancer, so that ramps up the potential for drama on a daily basis), she has almost always just stayed out of it and happily supported those who were being "pushed aside". So yes, I am proud that I've helped raise a genuinely nice, empathetic young adult who is a joy to be around (well most of the time, as long as it's past noon )
Go back and read your prior posts again.
This is the same lady that said her daughter and her friend watched another friend wander around alone at homecoming and did nothing....but now she says she's proud of her daughter's kindness and empathy while also being judgmental and lacking empathy. Amusing.
Once again, they didn't do nothing. They tried to get friend to hang out with them, but the friend wouldn't because that would ruin any future with this "popular group"---she pushed them away. So they can't force her to join them. It had been like this at HS since 9th grade...friend won't associate with anyone outside of the "crowd" while at school/school events.
PP what does this have to do with being in a sorority? If I were to compare my DD (in a sorority) to yours, I could tell you they are probably VERY similar. My DD was not in the popular group, nor even the second popular group, and she did not care at all. She had a small group of friends that were well liked and known to be nice and smart, but not invited to the HS parties really until summer after graduation. They are really good, smart, sweet girls who would never exclude anyone, and who have dealt with mean girls themselves. So what you're trying to say is that because my DD is in a sorority, she is not as good of a person as yours? She is not a nice, sweet smart girl who tries to be a friend to all? How do you know this?
What you do not understand is that there is a WIDE range of girls who join sororities. Yes, some wealthy white girls absolutely but there are all diversities in many of the houses. Of 15 options at UVA for instance, there are probably 4-5 that would be a great fit for your DD. There is literally a house for every type of person. My DS is in a fraternity, and had literally never been drunk (even buzzed) until May of his freshman year when HE decided he wanted to know what it felt like. Does that sound like the typical "frat boy"? He has also had a GF for over two years who he intends to marry. But based off your judgment, he is not a good person. Do you see why what you're saying is wrong?
I went to a big SEC school in the South in the '80s. I went to rush on a lark, just to see what it was all about. I hoped to meet people along the way. I had few expectations I would be picked. I was just average looking, but had great grades and graduated in the top 10 of my 900 person high school class. I was a bit quiet.
To my surprise, I found the perfect match for me. And it is one of the best known sororities in the U.S. I loved it and have lifelong friends from the time. There were a few rough spots dealing with 100 other strong personalities, but overall I found it such a welcoming community and it gave me a home base among the almost 35,000 students. I hung out with Greeks and non-Greeks. There was no exclusion. But there was endless support and a whole lot of great times spending time with very talented, smart women. These women are now doctors, journalists, university professors, teachers, lawyers, etc.
I was able to network with this group my whole life. When I moved to new cities, I found the alum group, and quickly had a home base of local people who could guide me to schools, doctors, dentists, etc.
One of the best choices I made in life, it turns out.
Yet this positive, logical and thoughtful response will be met with ire and vitriol with all of the usual tropes that go with that, it's a shame.
One person’s experience in the 80s.
Yet those of us with negative experiences are dismissed as trope. I lived the trope. It’s painful as hell to watch your daughter hurt at a time that should be full of fun and excitement. And rather than believe people have different experiences, you insult mine.
No one dismissed you as "trope" whatever that means, only that people have negative experiences in life which was your daughter's by the way not yours. Doesn't make the whole community bad...and you proved the point by bringing negativity into the conversation. See how that works? You played the game as expected.
Anonymous wrote:Rush is startlingly similar to the law firm on campus interview (OCI) process.
no it isn’t. And I was a Sorority President and went to Yale Law.
Look everyone, we have a real Elle Woods here! How's Bruiser doing? You still have the "Bend and Snap" down?
Wait, you think sorority women are the mean girls?
+1,000,000
+1
I was never in a sorority and have a rising freshman who may or may not decide to rush - but this thread and the rabid sorority haters has been eye-opening.
Anonymous wrote:OP there are lots of people on this board who simply hate greek life and can't imagine why anyone would do it. Got news for you, many of them don't even have kids in college and once they do, their kid may well be interested themselves. Why? because it's a way to make a large college smaller, to find "your people" which we are always talking about on this board. It's much easier to find your people in a group of 200 sorority sisters, as opposed to 15,000 under grads.
It's also just fun. They have an active social life, lots of parties and activities including charity events, and there are lots of leadership opportunities.
And again, there is a huge emphasis on diversity in greek life these days. These are not white blond girls anymore, though I can't speak for the SEC schools. My DDs house represents every ethnicity on campus and is a home for all their members, from the studious to the party girl and everyone in between. She has met a group of girls that she really enjoys being around (especially the older girls) and never would have met them had it not been for her sorority.
In reality, it's not much different than any other social club or even sports, or academic etc. Yes the rush process is tough, and that's because there are SO many people interested. When you have 15 houses and a thousand people interested, you are going to have to have a selection process.
Actually, my kids have always steered clear of groups and organizations that cause drama, treat people unfairly, and judge others based on superficial traits. They have done this since ES, when they quickly realized the Queen Bees were downright mean to many kids and excluded them and made fun of them. While my kid was not excluded, they were smart enough to realize this was wrong and didn't join those groups. Similarly in MS and HS, steered clear of the "mean girls" and "popular crowd" where your status could change daily. She watched a good friend go thru it in HS and just supported her; watched the friend wander around alone at Homecoming because she'd been ditched by the "popular friends" yet wouldn't/couldn't talk to her other group of friends 4 of them for fear of being further excluded from the popular group. My kid is nice enough to remain good friends with this girl, and just be there when she "has the time for her and that group of friends", but they all hurt watching the friend deal with the ups/downs/meanness of the popular group and wish she could see she doesn't have to do that to herself.
I wonder if your kids inherited your superiority complex? The women in my sorority weren’t half as judgmental as you demonstrated yourself to be in one post.
Nothing judgmental at all. These are simply the facts of what was happening. And yes, HS students who would ditch a person from their group if they "talk/associate" with kids who are not part of the "popular crowd" are nasty, mean kids. My kid and their friends literally watched their good friend wandering around ALONE at Homecoming but too afraid to associate with them, despite their best attempts. They witness this everyday at school as well, but yet this friend will Hang with them outside school (when schedule allows), went on a "senior getaway" with them, just not during the prized senior week. Sorry for you if you view this as normal, but it's not.
Similarly, if you think the queen bees who start controlling groups and being downright mean by excluding other girls in ES are normal, then you have issues. My kids were taught to be inclusive and kind. Not everyone is apparently.
Holy lack of self awareness!
Can you expand upon your criticism of pp's comment? Is it that you want more tolerance of intolerance? Less judging of a judgmental process? Not to put words in your mouth but would like to understand.
Anyone who broadly stereotypes based on perceived social group is judgmental. Pp continues to insist that her children are perfect and any child who is popular is mean and exclusionary. It doesn’t take much emotional intelligence to see this in her posts. Life simply isn’t that black and white, and even if it was, I personally find her need to put down other children while describing her own as perfect odd. Adults shouldn’t be so invested in the k-12 social scene.
You need better reading comprehension.
Never did I say my kid is "perfect", far from it. However, if my kid were to be mean to others I would work hard to put a stop to it, by educating my kid/having discussions. It is not acceptable to allow your 2nd/3rd grader to be mean to others and exclude others, encourage others to not play with/associate with another 2nd/3rd grader. My kids knew they didn't have to like everyone, but that being mean is not acceptable. We worked hard to teach our kids to try to include everyone. I also witnessed these events/behaviors while actively volunteering during ES, so it's not just a 7yo story or a stereotype, I've witnessed it. It's called parenting. If you think those behaviors are acceptable and just a normal part of life, then I feel sorry for your kids.
Also I never said any child who is popular is "mean and exclusionary". However, providing details of real life facts of what my kids have witnessed is not "judgmental". It's facts, and not a stereotype.
When my daughter and 2 of her 3 best friends come home from homecoming and spend an hour discussing how sad they were for the 3rd friend who seemed so sad/miserable at homecoming (was crying at homecoming and left to wander alone and wouldn't join them), I will listen to the discussion. Yes, I know that my kid and the other 2 friends would never ditch another friend at any event, no matter what happened. That isn't me saying my kid is perfect (she's not). It's me stating my teen/young adult has grown up with empathy and the ability to be nice. If that bothers you so much, maybe you need to look deep and try to understand why it does.
FWIW, I don't care if my kid is "popular" or not. What matters most to me is that my kid is a genuinely nice person with empathy for others, even when it's not the "easy choice". So yes, I am proud that time and time again, when my kid has witnessed drama (my kid is a competitive dancer, so that ramps up the potential for drama on a daily basis), she has almost always just stayed out of it and happily supported those who were being "pushed aside". So yes, I am proud that I've helped raise a genuinely nice, empathetic young adult who is a joy to be around (well most of the time, as long as it's past noon )
Go back and read your prior posts again.
This is the same lady that said her daughter and her friend watched another friend wander around alone at homecoming and did nothing....but now she says she's proud of her daughter's kindness and empathy while also being judgmental and lacking empathy. Amusing.
Once again, they didn't do nothing. They tried to get friend to hang out with them, but the friend wouldn't because that would ruin any future with this "popular group"---she pushed them away. So they can't force her to join them. It had been like this at HS since 9th grade...friend won't associate with anyone outside of the "crowd" while at school/school events.
PP what does this have to do with being in a sorority? If I were to compare my DD (in a sorority) to yours, I could tell you they are probably VERY similar. My DD was not in the popular group, nor even the second popular group, and she did not care at all. She had a small group of friends that were well liked and known to be nice and smart, but not invited to the HS parties really until summer after graduation. They are really good, smart, sweet girls who would never exclude anyone, and who have dealt with mean girls themselves. So what you're trying to say is that because my DD is in a sorority, she is not as good of a person as yours? She is not a nice, sweet smart girl who tries to be a friend to all? How do you know this?
What you do not understand is that there is a WIDE range of girls who join sororities. Yes, some wealthy white girls absolutely but there are all diversities in many of the houses. Of 15 options at UVA for instance, there are probably 4-5 that would be a great fit for your DD. There is literally a house for every type of person. My DS is in a fraternity, and had literally never been drunk (even buzzed) until May of his freshman year when HE decided he wanted to know what it felt like. Does that sound like the typical "frat boy"? He has also had a GF for over two years who he intends to marry. But based off your judgment, he is not a good person. Do you see why what you're saying is wrong?
I went to a big SEC school in the South in the '80s. I went to rush on a lark, just to see what it was all about. I hoped to meet people along the way. I had few expectations I would be picked. I was just average looking, but had great grades and graduated in the top 10 of my 900 person high school class. I was a bit quiet.
To my surprise, I found the perfect match for me. And it is one of the best known sororities in the U.S. I loved it and have lifelong friends from the time. There were a few rough spots dealing with 100 other strong personalities, but overall I found it such a welcoming community and it gave me a home base among the almost 35,000 students. I hung out with Greeks and non-Greeks. There was no exclusion. But there was endless support and a whole lot of great times spending time with very talented, smart women. These women are now doctors, journalists, university professors, teachers, lawyers, etc.
I was able to network with this group my whole life. When I moved to new cities, I found the alum group, and quickly had a home base of local people who could guide me to schools, doctors, dentists, etc.
One of the best choices I made in life, it turns out.
Yet this positive, logical and thoughtful response will be met with ire and vitriol with all of the usual tropes that go with that, it's a shame.
One person’s experience in the 80s.
Yet those of us with negative experiences are dismissed as trope. I lived the trope. It’s painful as hell to watch your daughter hurt at a time that should be full of fun and excitement. And rather than believe people have different experiences, you insult mine.
NP. Isn't that just life? Greek life was not for you. That's OK. It was a great experience for me. We're all different. You know what wasn't for me? The nursing major. It was painful. I had little in common with my classmates. The instructors showed no mercy! I dreaded the academic content and the work. So I dropped it and switched to something that fit me better. No drama, no hang wringing. I'm sure it was "painful as hell" for my mom to watch me hurt. But again...that's just part of life.
Anonymous wrote:OP there are lots of people on this board who simply hate greek life and can't imagine why anyone would do it. Got news for you, many of them don't even have kids in college and once they do, their kid may well be interested themselves. Why? because it's a way to make a large college smaller, to find "your people" which we are always talking about on this board. It's much easier to find your people in a group of 200 sorority sisters, as opposed to 15,000 under grads.
It's also just fun. They have an active social life, lots of parties and activities including charity events, and there are lots of leadership opportunities.
And again, there is a huge emphasis on diversity in greek life these days. These are not white blond girls anymore, though I can't speak for the SEC schools. My DDs house represents every ethnicity on campus and is a home for all their members, from the studious to the party girl and everyone in between. She has met a group of girls that she really enjoys being around (especially the older girls) and never would have met them had it not been for her sorority.
In reality, it's not much different than any other social club or even sports, or academic etc. Yes the rush process is tough, and that's because there are SO many people interested. When you have 15 houses and a thousand people interested, you are going to have to have a selection process.
Actually, my kids have always steered clear of groups and organizations that cause drama, treat people unfairly, and judge others based on superficial traits. They have done this since ES, when they quickly realized the Queen Bees were downright mean to many kids and excluded them and made fun of them. While my kid was not excluded, they were smart enough to realize this was wrong and didn't join those groups. Similarly in MS and HS, steered clear of the "mean girls" and "popular crowd" where your status could change daily. She watched a good friend go thru it in HS and just supported her; watched the friend wander around alone at Homecoming because she'd been ditched by the "popular friends" yet wouldn't/couldn't talk to her other group of friends 4 of them for fear of being further excluded from the popular group. My kid is nice enough to remain good friends with this girl, and just be there when she "has the time for her and that group of friends", but they all hurt watching the friend deal with the ups/downs/meanness of the popular group and wish she could see she doesn't have to do that to herself.
I wonder if your kids inherited your superiority complex? The women in my sorority weren’t half as judgmental as you demonstrated yourself to be in one post.
Nothing judgmental at all. These are simply the facts of what was happening. And yes, HS students who would ditch a person from their group if they "talk/associate" with kids who are not part of the "popular crowd" are nasty, mean kids. My kid and their friends literally watched their good friend wandering around ALONE at Homecoming but too afraid to associate with them, despite their best attempts. They witness this everyday at school as well, but yet this friend will Hang with them outside school (when schedule allows), went on a "senior getaway" with them, just not during the prized senior week. Sorry for you if you view this as normal, but it's not.
Similarly, if you think the queen bees who start controlling groups and being downright mean by excluding other girls in ES are normal, then you have issues. My kids were taught to be inclusive and kind. Not everyone is apparently.
Holy lack of self awareness!
Can you expand upon your criticism of pp's comment? Is it that you want more tolerance of intolerance? Less judging of a judgmental process? Not to put words in your mouth but would like to understand.
Anyone who broadly stereotypes based on perceived social group is judgmental. Pp continues to insist that her children are perfect and any child who is popular is mean and exclusionary. It doesn’t take much emotional intelligence to see this in her posts. Life simply isn’t that black and white, and even if it was, I personally find her need to put down other children while describing her own as perfect odd. Adults shouldn’t be so invested in the k-12 social scene.
You need better reading comprehension.
Never did I say my kid is "perfect", far from it. However, if my kid were to be mean to others I would work hard to put a stop to it, by educating my kid/having discussions. It is not acceptable to allow your 2nd/3rd grader to be mean to others and exclude others, encourage others to not play with/associate with another 2nd/3rd grader. My kids knew they didn't have to like everyone, but that being mean is not acceptable. We worked hard to teach our kids to try to include everyone. I also witnessed these events/behaviors while actively volunteering during ES, so it's not just a 7yo story or a stereotype, I've witnessed it. It's called parenting. If you think those behaviors are acceptable and just a normal part of life, then I feel sorry for your kids.
Also I never said any child who is popular is "mean and exclusionary". However, providing details of real life facts of what my kids have witnessed is not "judgmental". It's facts, and not a stereotype.
When my daughter and 2 of her 3 best friends come home from homecoming and spend an hour discussing how sad they were for the 3rd friend who seemed so sad/miserable at homecoming (was crying at homecoming and left to wander alone and wouldn't join them), I will listen to the discussion. Yes, I know that my kid and the other 2 friends would never ditch another friend at any event, no matter what happened. That isn't me saying my kid is perfect (she's not). It's me stating my teen/young adult has grown up with empathy and the ability to be nice. If that bothers you so much, maybe you need to look deep and try to understand why it does.
FWIW, I don't care if my kid is "popular" or not. What matters most to me is that my kid is a genuinely nice person with empathy for others, even when it's not the "easy choice". So yes, I am proud that time and time again, when my kid has witnessed drama (my kid is a competitive dancer, so that ramps up the potential for drama on a daily basis), she has almost always just stayed out of it and happily supported those who were being "pushed aside". So yes, I am proud that I've helped raise a genuinely nice, empathetic young adult who is a joy to be around (well most of the time, as long as it's past noon )
Go back and read your prior posts again.
This is the same lady that said her daughter and her friend watched another friend wander around alone at homecoming and did nothing....but now she says she's proud of her daughter's kindness and empathy while also being judgmental and lacking empathy. Amusing.
Once again, they didn't do nothing. They tried to get friend to hang out with them, but the friend wouldn't because that would ruin any future with this "popular group"---she pushed them away. So they can't force her to join them. It had been like this at HS since 9th grade...friend won't associate with anyone outside of the "crowd" while at school/school events.
PP what does this have to do with being in a sorority? If I were to compare my DD (in a sorority) to yours, I could tell you they are probably VERY similar. My DD was not in the popular group, nor even the second popular group, and she did not care at all. She had a small group of friends that were well liked and known to be nice and smart, but not invited to the HS parties really until summer after graduation. They are really good, smart, sweet girls who would never exclude anyone, and who have dealt with mean girls themselves. So what you're trying to say is that because my DD is in a sorority, she is not as good of a person as yours? She is not a nice, sweet smart girl who tries to be a friend to all? How do you know this?
What you do not understand is that there is a WIDE range of girls who join sororities. Yes, some wealthy white girls absolutely but there are all diversities in many of the houses. Of 15 options at UVA for instance, there are probably 4-5 that would be a great fit for your DD. There is literally a house for every type of person. My DS is in a fraternity, and had literally never been drunk (even buzzed) until May of his freshman year when HE decided he wanted to know what it felt like. Does that sound like the typical "frat boy"? He has also had a GF for over two years who he intends to marry. But based off your judgment, he is not a good person. Do you see why what you're saying is wrong?
I went to a big SEC school in the South in the '80s. I went to rush on a lark, just to see what it was all about. I hoped to meet people along the way. I had few expectations I would be picked. I was just average looking, but had great grades and graduated in the top 10 of my 900 person high school class. I was a bit quiet.
To my surprise, I found the perfect match for me. And it is one of the best known sororities in the U.S. I loved it and have lifelong friends from the time. There were a few rough spots dealing with 100 other strong personalities, but overall I found it such a welcoming community and it gave me a home base among the almost 35,000 students. I hung out with Greeks and non-Greeks. There was no exclusion. But there was endless support and a whole lot of great times spending time with very talented, smart women. These women are now doctors, journalists, university professors, teachers, lawyers, etc.
I was able to network with this group my whole life. When I moved to new cities, I found the alum group, and quickly had a home base of local people who could guide me to schools, doctors, dentists, etc.
One of the best choices I made in life, it turns out.
Yet this positive, logical and thoughtful response will be met with ire and vitriol with all of the usual tropes that go with that, it's a shame.
One person’s experience in the 80s.
Yet those of us with negative experiences are dismissed as trope. I lived the trope. It’s painful as hell to watch your daughter hurt at a time that should be full of fun and excitement. And rather than believe people have different experiences, you insult mine.
NP. Isn't that just life? Greek life was not for you. That's OK. It was a great experience for me. We're all different. You know what wasn't for me? The nursing major. It was painful. I had little in common with my classmates. The instructors showed no mercy! I dreaded the academic content and the work. So I dropped it and switched to something that fit me better. No drama, no hang wringing. I'm sure it was "painful as hell" for my mom to watch me hurt. But again...that's just part of life.
Anonymous wrote:OP there are lots of people on this board who simply hate greek life and can't imagine why anyone would do it. Got news for you, many of them don't even have kids in college and once they do, their kid may well be interested themselves. Why? because it's a way to make a large college smaller, to find "your people" which we are always talking about on this board. It's much easier to find your people in a group of 200 sorority sisters, as opposed to 15,000 under grads.
It's also just fun. They have an active social life, lots of parties and activities including charity events, and there are lots of leadership opportunities.
And again, there is a huge emphasis on diversity in greek life these days. These are not white blond girls anymore, though I can't speak for the SEC schools. My DDs house represents every ethnicity on campus and is a home for all their members, from the studious to the party girl and everyone in between. She has met a group of girls that she really enjoys being around (especially the older girls) and never would have met them had it not been for her sorority.
In reality, it's not much different than any other social club or even sports, or academic etc. Yes the rush process is tough, and that's because there are SO many people interested. When you have 15 houses and a thousand people interested, you are going to have to have a selection process.
Actually, my kids have always steered clear of groups and organizations that cause drama, treat people unfairly, and judge others based on superficial traits. They have done this since ES, when they quickly realized the Queen Bees were downright mean to many kids and excluded them and made fun of them. While my kid was not excluded, they were smart enough to realize this was wrong and didn't join those groups. Similarly in MS and HS, steered clear of the "mean girls" and "popular crowd" where your status could change daily. She watched a good friend go thru it in HS and just supported her; watched the friend wander around alone at Homecoming because she'd been ditched by the "popular friends" yet wouldn't/couldn't talk to her other group of friends 4 of them for fear of being further excluded from the popular group. My kid is nice enough to remain good friends with this girl, and just be there when she "has the time for her and that group of friends", but they all hurt watching the friend deal with the ups/downs/meanness of the popular group and wish she could see she doesn't have to do that to herself.
I wonder if your kids inherited your superiority complex? The women in my sorority weren’t half as judgmental as you demonstrated yourself to be in one post.
Nothing judgmental at all. These are simply the facts of what was happening. And yes, HS students who would ditch a person from their group if they "talk/associate" with kids who are not part of the "popular crowd" are nasty, mean kids. My kid and their friends literally watched their good friend wandering around ALONE at Homecoming but too afraid to associate with them, despite their best attempts. They witness this everyday at school as well, but yet this friend will Hang with them outside school (when schedule allows), went on a "senior getaway" with them, just not during the prized senior week. Sorry for you if you view this as normal, but it's not.
Similarly, if you think the queen bees who start controlling groups and being downright mean by excluding other girls in ES are normal, then you have issues. My kids were taught to be inclusive and kind. Not everyone is apparently.
Holy lack of self awareness!
Can you expand upon your criticism of pp's comment? Is it that you want more tolerance of intolerance? Less judging of a judgmental process? Not to put words in your mouth but would like to understand.
Anyone who broadly stereotypes based on perceived social group is judgmental. Pp continues to insist that her children are perfect and any child who is popular is mean and exclusionary. It doesn’t take much emotional intelligence to see this in her posts. Life simply isn’t that black and white, and even if it was, I personally find her need to put down other children while describing her own as perfect odd. Adults shouldn’t be so invested in the k-12 social scene.
You need better reading comprehension.
Never did I say my kid is "perfect", far from it. However, if my kid were to be mean to others I would work hard to put a stop to it, by educating my kid/having discussions. It is not acceptable to allow your 2nd/3rd grader to be mean to others and exclude others, encourage others to not play with/associate with another 2nd/3rd grader. My kids knew they didn't have to like everyone, but that being mean is not acceptable. We worked hard to teach our kids to try to include everyone. I also witnessed these events/behaviors while actively volunteering during ES, so it's not just a 7yo story or a stereotype, I've witnessed it. It's called parenting. If you think those behaviors are acceptable and just a normal part of life, then I feel sorry for your kids.
Also I never said any child who is popular is "mean and exclusionary". However, providing details of real life facts of what my kids have witnessed is not "judgmental". It's facts, and not a stereotype.
When my daughter and 2 of her 3 best friends come home from homecoming and spend an hour discussing how sad they were for the 3rd friend who seemed so sad/miserable at homecoming (was crying at homecoming and left to wander alone and wouldn't join them), I will listen to the discussion. Yes, I know that my kid and the other 2 friends would never ditch another friend at any event, no matter what happened. That isn't me saying my kid is perfect (she's not). It's me stating my teen/young adult has grown up with empathy and the ability to be nice. If that bothers you so much, maybe you need to look deep and try to understand why it does.
FWIW, I don't care if my kid is "popular" or not. What matters most to me is that my kid is a genuinely nice person with empathy for others, even when it's not the "easy choice". So yes, I am proud that time and time again, when my kid has witnessed drama (my kid is a competitive dancer, so that ramps up the potential for drama on a daily basis), she has almost always just stayed out of it and happily supported those who were being "pushed aside". So yes, I am proud that I've helped raise a genuinely nice, empathetic young adult who is a joy to be around (well most of the time, as long as it's past noon )
Go back and read your prior posts again.
This is the same lady that said her daughter and her friend watched another friend wander around alone at homecoming and did nothing....but now she says she's proud of her daughter's kindness and empathy while also being judgmental and lacking empathy. Amusing.
Once again, they didn't do nothing. They tried to get friend to hang out with them, but the friend wouldn't because that would ruin any future with this "popular group"---she pushed them away. So they can't force her to join them. It had been like this at HS since 9th grade...friend won't associate with anyone outside of the "crowd" while at school/school events.
PP what does this have to do with being in a sorority? If I were to compare my DD (in a sorority) to yours, I could tell you they are probably VERY similar. My DD was not in the popular group, nor even the second popular group, and she did not care at all. She had a small group of friends that were well liked and known to be nice and smart, but not invited to the HS parties really until summer after graduation. They are really good, smart, sweet girls who would never exclude anyone, and who have dealt with mean girls themselves. So what you're trying to say is that because my DD is in a sorority, she is not as good of a person as yours? She is not a nice, sweet smart girl who tries to be a friend to all? How do you know this?
What you do not understand is that there is a WIDE range of girls who join sororities. Yes, some wealthy white girls absolutely but there are all diversities in many of the houses. Of 15 options at UVA for instance, there are probably 4-5 that would be a great fit for your DD. There is literally a house for every type of person. My DS is in a fraternity, and had literally never been drunk (even buzzed) until May of his freshman year when HE decided he wanted to know what it felt like. Does that sound like the typical "frat boy"? He has also had a GF for over two years who he intends to marry. But based off your judgment, he is not a good person. Do you see why what you're saying is wrong?
I went to a big SEC school in the South in the '80s. I went to rush on a lark, just to see what it was all about. I hoped to meet people along the way. I had few expectations I would be picked. I was just average looking, but had great grades and graduated in the top 10 of my 900 person high school class. I was a bit quiet.
To my surprise, I found the perfect match for me. And it is one of the best known sororities in the U.S. I loved it and have lifelong friends from the time. There were a few rough spots dealing with 100 other strong personalities, but overall I found it such a welcoming community and it gave me a home base among the almost 35,000 students. I hung out with Greeks and non-Greeks. There was no exclusion. But there was endless support and a whole lot of great times spending time with very talented, smart women. These women are now doctors, journalists, university professors, teachers, lawyers, etc.
I was able to network with this group my whole life. When I moved to new cities, I found the alum group, and quickly had a home base of local people who could guide me to schools, doctors, dentists, etc.
One of the best choices I made in life, it turns out.
Yet this positive, logical and thoughtful response will be met with ire and vitriol with all of the usual tropes that go with that, it's a shame.
One person’s experience in the 80s.
Yet those of us with negative experiences are dismissed as trope. I lived the trope. It’s painful as hell to watch your daughter hurt at a time that should be full of fun and excitement. And rather than believe people have different experiences, you insult mine.
NP. Isn't that just life? Greek life was not for you. That's OK. It was a great experience for me. We're all different. You know what wasn't for me? The nursing major. It was painful. I had little in common with my classmates. The instructors showed no mercy! I dreaded the academic content and the work. So I dropped it and switched to something that fit me better. No drama, no hang wringing. I'm sure it was "painful as hell" for my mom to watch me hurt. But again...that's just part of life.
And somehow, you aren't here to run down all nurses as terrible people. Go figure!
"I was able to network with this group my whole life. When I moved to new cities, I found the alum group, and quickly had a home base of local people who could guide me to schools, doctors, dentists, etc.
One of the best choices I made in life, it turns out."
This is the sort of thing that I'll never understand. Why would anybody think that you need a Greek organization to have this? I have friends that I made through normal college activities to call on for things like this. In a pinch I could connect with my alumni association's local branch. But then again, I graduated from a college that pulls students from all across the country. I suppose if I'd gone to a state school where almost everyone was from Ohio and would live there after college, that wouldn't work when moving to Chicago.
Anonymous wrote:OP there are lots of people on this board who simply hate greek life and can't imagine why anyone would do it. Got news for you, many of them don't even have kids in college and once they do, their kid may well be interested themselves. Why? because it's a way to make a large college smaller, to find "your people" which we are always talking about on this board. It's much easier to find your people in a group of 200 sorority sisters, as opposed to 15,000 under grads.
It's also just fun. They have an active social life, lots of parties and activities including charity events, and there are lots of leadership opportunities.
And again, there is a huge emphasis on diversity in greek life these days. These are not white blond girls anymore, though I can't speak for the SEC schools. My DDs house represents every ethnicity on campus and is a home for all their members, from the studious to the party girl and everyone in between. She has met a group of girls that she really enjoys being around (especially the older girls) and never would have met them had it not been for her sorority.
In reality, it's not much different than any other social club or even sports, or academic etc. Yes the rush process is tough, and that's because there are SO many people interested. When you have 15 houses and a thousand people interested, you are going to have to have a selection process.
Actually, my kids have always steered clear of groups and organizations that cause drama, treat people unfairly, and judge others based on superficial traits. They have done this since ES, when they quickly realized the Queen Bees were downright mean to many kids and excluded them and made fun of them. While my kid was not excluded, they were smart enough to realize this was wrong and didn't join those groups. Similarly in MS and HS, steered clear of the "mean girls" and "popular crowd" where your status could change daily. She watched a good friend go thru it in HS and just supported her; watched the friend wander around alone at Homecoming because she'd been ditched by the "popular friends" yet wouldn't/couldn't talk to her other group of friends 4 of them for fear of being further excluded from the popular group. My kid is nice enough to remain good friends with this girl, and just be there when she "has the time for her and that group of friends", but they all hurt watching the friend deal with the ups/downs/meanness of the popular group and wish she could see she doesn't have to do that to herself.
I wonder if your kids inherited your superiority complex? The women in my sorority weren’t half as judgmental as you demonstrated yourself to be in one post.
Nothing judgmental at all. These are simply the facts of what was happening. And yes, HS students who would ditch a person from their group if they "talk/associate" with kids who are not part of the "popular crowd" are nasty, mean kids. My kid and their friends literally watched their good friend wandering around ALONE at Homecoming but too afraid to associate with them, despite their best attempts. They witness this everyday at school as well, but yet this friend will Hang with them outside school (when schedule allows), went on a "senior getaway" with them, just not during the prized senior week. Sorry for you if you view this as normal, but it's not.
Similarly, if you think the queen bees who start controlling groups and being downright mean by excluding other girls in ES are normal, then you have issues. My kids were taught to be inclusive and kind. Not everyone is apparently.
Holy lack of self awareness!
Can you expand upon your criticism of pp's comment? Is it that you want more tolerance of intolerance? Less judging of a judgmental process? Not to put words in your mouth but would like to understand.
Anyone who broadly stereotypes based on perceived social group is judgmental. Pp continues to insist that her children are perfect and any child who is popular is mean and exclusionary. It doesn’t take much emotional intelligence to see this in her posts. Life simply isn’t that black and white, and even if it was, I personally find her need to put down other children while describing her own as perfect odd. Adults shouldn’t be so invested in the k-12 social scene.
You need better reading comprehension.
Never did I say my kid is "perfect", far from it. However, if my kid were to be mean to others I would work hard to put a stop to it, by educating my kid/having discussions. It is not acceptable to allow your 2nd/3rd grader to be mean to others and exclude others, encourage others to not play with/associate with another 2nd/3rd grader. My kids knew they didn't have to like everyone, but that being mean is not acceptable. We worked hard to teach our kids to try to include everyone. I also witnessed these events/behaviors while actively volunteering during ES, so it's not just a 7yo story or a stereotype, I've witnessed it. It's called parenting. If you think those behaviors are acceptable and just a normal part of life, then I feel sorry for your kids.
Also I never said any child who is popular is "mean and exclusionary". However, providing details of real life facts of what my kids have witnessed is not "judgmental". It's facts, and not a stereotype.
When my daughter and 2 of her 3 best friends come home from homecoming and spend an hour discussing how sad they were for the 3rd friend who seemed so sad/miserable at homecoming (was crying at homecoming and left to wander alone and wouldn't join them), I will listen to the discussion. Yes, I know that my kid and the other 2 friends would never ditch another friend at any event, no matter what happened. That isn't me saying my kid is perfect (she's not). It's me stating my teen/young adult has grown up with empathy and the ability to be nice. If that bothers you so much, maybe you need to look deep and try to understand why it does.
FWIW, I don't care if my kid is "popular" or not. What matters most to me is that my kid is a genuinely nice person with empathy for others, even when it's not the "easy choice". So yes, I am proud that time and time again, when my kid has witnessed drama (my kid is a competitive dancer, so that ramps up the potential for drama on a daily basis), she has almost always just stayed out of it and happily supported those who were being "pushed aside". So yes, I am proud that I've helped raise a genuinely nice, empathetic young adult who is a joy to be around (well most of the time, as long as it's past noon )
Go back and read your prior posts again.
This is the same lady that said her daughter and her friend watched another friend wander around alone at homecoming and did nothing....but now she says she's proud of her daughter's kindness and empathy while also being judgmental and lacking empathy. Amusing.
Once again, they didn't do nothing. They tried to get friend to hang out with them, but the friend wouldn't because that would ruin any future with this "popular group"---she pushed them away. So they can't force her to join them. It had been like this at HS since 9th grade...friend won't associate with anyone outside of the "crowd" while at school/school events.
PP what does this have to do with being in a sorority? If I were to compare my DD (in a sorority) to yours, I could tell you they are probably VERY similar. My DD was not in the popular group, nor even the second popular group, and she did not care at all. She had a small group of friends that were well liked and known to be nice and smart, but not invited to the HS parties really until summer after graduation. They are really good, smart, sweet girls who would never exclude anyone, and who have dealt with mean girls themselves. So what you're trying to say is that because my DD is in a sorority, she is not as good of a person as yours? She is not a nice, sweet smart girl who tries to be a friend to all? How do you know this?
What you do not understand is that there is a WIDE range of girls who join sororities. Yes, some wealthy white girls absolutely but there are all diversities in many of the houses. Of 15 options at UVA for instance, there are probably 4-5 that would be a great fit for your DD. There is literally a house for every type of person. My DS is in a fraternity, and had literally never been drunk (even buzzed) until May of his freshman year when HE decided he wanted to know what it felt like. Does that sound like the typical "frat boy"? He has also had a GF for over two years who he intends to marry. But based off your judgment, he is not a good person. Do you see why what you're saying is wrong?
I went to a big SEC school in the South in the '80s. I went to rush on a lark, just to see what it was all about. I hoped to meet people along the way. I had few expectations I would be picked. I was just average looking, but had great grades and graduated in the top 10 of my 900 person high school class. I was a bit quiet.
To my surprise, I found the perfect match for me. And it is one of the best known sororities in the U.S. I loved it and have lifelong friends from the time. There were a few rough spots dealing with 100 other strong personalities, but overall I found it such a welcoming community and it gave me a home base among the almost 35,000 students. I hung out with Greeks and non-Greeks. There was no exclusion. But there was endless support and a whole lot of great times spending time with very talented, smart women. These women are now doctors, journalists, university professors, teachers, lawyers, etc.
I was able to network with this group my whole life. When I moved to new cities, I found the alum group, and quickly had a home base of local people who could guide me to schools, doctors, dentists, etc.
One of the best choices I made in life, it turns out.
Yet this positive, logical and thoughtful response will be met with ire and vitriol with all of the usual tropes that go with that, it's a shame.
One person’s experience in the 80s.
Yet those of us with negative experiences are dismissed as trope. I lived the trope. It’s painful as hell to watch your daughter hurt at a time that should be full of fun and excitement. And rather than believe people have different experiences, you insult mine.
I am this PP.
I went to a reunion of my sorority sisters about 5 years ago, so about 25 years after we graduated. Almost 100 women showed up of within a 6 year time frame of when I was there. So it wasn't my experience alone. We had a diverse group, and we had each other's backs. It was a good experience. There's a lot of grace to be learned in getting along with others.
Anonymous wrote:"I was able to network with this group my whole life. When I moved to new cities, I found the alum group, and quickly had a home base of local people who could guide me to schools, doctors, dentists, etc.
One of the best choices I made in life, it turns out."
This is the sort of thing that I'll never understand. Why would anybody think that you need a Greek organization to have this? I have friends that I made through normal college activities to call on for things like this. In a pinch I could connect with my alumni association's local branch. But then again, I graduated from a college that pulls students from all across the country. I suppose if I'd gone to a state school where almost everyone was from Ohio and would live there after college, that wouldn't work when moving to Chicago.
Yeah, you just don't get it. It's a whole other level of connection.
Anonymous wrote:"I was able to network with this group my whole life. When I moved to new cities, I found the alum group, and quickly had a home base of local people who could guide me to schools, doctors, dentists, etc.
One of the best choices I made in life, it turns out."
This is the sort of thing that I'll never understand. Why would anybody think that you need a Greek organization to have this? I have friends that I made through normal college activities to call on for things like this. In a pinch I could connect with my alumni association's local branch. But then again, I graduated from a college that pulls students from all across the country. I suppose if I'd gone to a state school where almost everyone was from Ohio and would live there after college, that wouldn't work when moving to Chicago.
You don't understand it because you are a simpleton. Both circumstances can lead to positive outcomes. Why is that so hard for you to understand unless you lack critical thinking skills and basic social acumen? PP said different cities so your clueless attempt at a dig just makes you seem petty, insecure and weak. Do better.
I’m glad people have had nice experiences, but don’t those connections perpetuate a lack of diversity leading to stagnating inequalities in society? I get it that this happens regardless, but there’s something about how blatant this is that doesn’t sit well with me.
Anonymous wrote:I’m glad people have had nice experiences, but don’t those connections perpetuate a lack of diversity leading to stagnating inequalities in society? I get it that this happens regardless, but there’s something about how blatant this is that doesn’t sit well with me.
Anonymous wrote:I’m glad people have had nice experiences, but don’t those connections perpetuate a lack of diversity leading to stagnating inequalities in society? I get it that this happens regardless, but there’s something about how blatant this is that doesn’t sit well with me.
How do you feel about the lack of diversity in historically black sororities?
Anonymous wrote:"I was able to network with this group my whole life. When I moved to new cities, I found the alum group, and quickly had a home base of local people who could guide me to schools, doctors, dentists, etc.
One of the best choices I made in life, it turns out."
This is the sort of thing that I'll never understand. Why would anybody think that you need a Greek organization to have this? I have friends that I made through normal college activities to call on for things like this. In a pinch I could connect with my alumni association's local branch. But then again, I graduated from a college that pulls students from all across the country. I suppose if I'd gone to a state school where almost everyone was from Ohio and would live there after college, that wouldn't work when moving to Chicago.
DP. I guess you're unaware that U of Chicago has greek life? And also pulls students from all across the country. Live and learn, PP!
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