I am confused between Stuart Hobson Middle School vs. Deal Middle School

[Anonymous]

There is too much emphasis on schools, kids with good work ethics and involved parents would do well at any school. My med school friends came from all levels of schools and colleges.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t see how having a bunch of 16 year olds in 7th grade helps anyone, anywhere. That’s what “end social promotion” means, in practical terms. It’s a terrible, terrible, terrible idea.

Some of the other rich countries have much better ways of dealing with academic stragglers than the equity obsessed US.

I recently visited a highly diverse government primary school in London England where upper grades students who tested a year+ behind grade level were pulled out of mainstream classrooms for intensive instruction in core subjects. The kids who were behind were taught separately in small group settings for half the school day. These kids were required to attend after school and Sat morning tutoring and were only permitted to return to mainstream classes once they could test at grade level. Was that such a horrible arrangement? Such a thoughtful system to support academic stragglers would obviously take money, organization, political will to implement, but why not do it here in DC? The arrangement seemed to be working very well for all concerned in the UK.

Everything you describe would be descried as "racist" and against "equity". The loop in DC is: minority kids don't have a fair shake because of systemic racism (which I happen to thin k is true) >> we cannot make them feel different or separate them >> the only possible solution is to bring everyone else down to their level.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why not just copy NYC and offer free test prep in every ward, starting in 6th or 7th grade? Students eligible for free or reduced meals could have a few extra points added to their scores if they turned up for the prep. Done. There are no shortcuts on the math prep. The kids either learn the math to cope with the curriculum or the curriculum invariably gets watered down to cater to kids who didn't get the requisite prep.

So I think the reason this wouldn't solve the problem in DC is that even with this, you'd still wind up with far fewer kids in Wards 7/8 passing the test than elsewhere.

So because a possible solution that would allow some kids to get a better opportunity wouldn't solve the entire problem we shouldn't do anything? People like you are part of the problem, not the solution. There's also an element to this that requires kids nd their families to want to help themselves. You infantilize the people you purport to defend when you assume they cannot advocate for or take advantage of opportunities presented.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t see how having a bunch of 16 year olds in 7th grade helps anyone, anywhere. That’s what “end social promotion” means, in practical terms. It’s a terrible, terrible, terrible idea.

Some of the other rich countries have much better ways of dealing with academic stragglers than the equity obsessed US.

I recently visited a highly diverse government primary school in London England where upper grades students who tested a year+ behind grade level were pulled out of mainstream classrooms for intensive instruction in core subjects. The kids who were behind were taught separately in small group settings for half the school day. These kids were required to attend after school and Sat morning tutoring and were only permitted to return to mainstream classes once they could test at grade level. Was that such a horrible arrangement? Such a thoughtful system to support academic stragglers would obviously take money, organization, political will to implement, but why not do it here in DC? The arrangement seemed to be working very well for all concerned in the UK.

Everything you describe would be descried as "racist" and against "equity". The loop in DC is: minority kids don't have a fair shake because of systemic racism (which I happen to thin k is true) >> we cannot make them feel different or separate them >> the only possible solution is to bring everyone else down to their level.

Not sure if that it's all racism and equity. DC probably has the most educated AA population in the country. Won't touch DCPS and barely will trust charters. I asked my neighbors who have been here forever what happened to DCPS. No one seems to have a straight answer. I've heard crack destroyed the fabric of the system, funding was pulled, corruption, etc. I'm sure someone can give context but it's a great mystery.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t see how having a bunch of 16 year olds in 7th grade helps anyone, anywhere. That’s what “end social promotion” means, in practical terms. It’s a terrible, terrible, terrible idea.

Some of the other rich countries have much better ways of dealing with academic stragglers than the equity obsessed US.

I recently visited a highly diverse government primary school in London England where upper grades students who tested a year+ behind grade level were pulled out of mainstream classrooms for intensive instruction in core subjects. The kids who were behind were taught separately in small group settings for half the school day. These kids were required to attend after school and Sat morning tutoring and were only permitted to return to mainstream classes once they could test at grade level. Was that such a horrible arrangement? Such a thoughtful system to support academic stragglers would obviously take money, organization, political will to implement, but why not do it here in DC? The arrangement seemed to be working very well for all concerned in the UK.

Everything you describe would be descried as "racist" and against "equity". The loop in DC is: minority kids don't have a fair shake because of systemic racism (which I happen to thin k is true) >> we cannot make them feel different or separate them >> the only possible solution is to bring everyone else down to their level.

In NYC and the UK, ed leaders want to level the playing field by ensuring that kids are given the support they need to perform at grade level in racially and socioeconomically diverse schools, however that works.

In the District, ed leaders are happy to settle for the optics/pretense that needy kids are getting the support they need to work at grade level, without those who work at or above grade level being harmed in the process. This blatant falsehood can be perpetuated election cycle after election cycle because most DC voters are either willing to settle for it for it or aren't interested in the state of DC public schools.

Are things getting better? Ask yourself why honors English has been axed at Stuart Hobson, after more than a decade of the school offering it from 6th-8th grade.

[Anonymous]

Racism and segregation are way worse in NYC, not better. The school system is much more segregated and Black schools are much more underfunded.

We should not be looking to NYC for how to reform schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why not just copy NYC and offer free test prep in every ward, starting in 6th or 7th grade? Students eligible for free or reduced meals could have a few extra points added to their scores if they turned up for the prep. Done. There are no shortcuts on the math prep. The kids either learn the math to cope with the curriculum or the curriculum invariably gets watered down to cater to kids who didn't get the requisite prep.

So I think the reason this wouldn't solve the problem in DC is that even with this, you'd still wind up with far fewer kids in Wards 7/8 passing the test than elsewhere.

So because a possible solution that would allow some kids to get a better opportunity wouldn't solve the entire problem we shouldn't do anything? People like you are part of the problem, not the solution. There's also an element to this that requires kids nd their families to want to help themselves. You infantilize the people you purport to defend when you assume they cannot advocate for or take advantage of opportunities presented.

I never said we shouldn't do anything and I even like this suggestion. I'm just saying that when DC implements solutions like this, it never solves the actual problem they are trying to solve, because most of them are bandaids.

If you give kids in other parts of the city test prep for magnet schools (and actually have real magnet schools, which DC doesn't really at the moment especially for MS) but then all the magnet schools ar located in parts of the city that you need resources to live near or commute to, what have you solved?

What I'm saying is that "access to test prep" is not actually the problem. It's access to actual schools. There are not enough good MS and HS in DC, and the ones we have are all located in one part of the city that is not that accessible to people living in other parts of the city. What does the kid in Ward 8, or even Ward 5 or 6 for that matter, do if he gets this test prep, gets into Walls, and then has no feasible way of getting there?

Walls is not the solution to the problem. To be honest, I'm about ready to suggest that the actual solution to the problem might be to give BASIS, Latin, and DCI a bunch of money and the chance to take over several MSs HSs on the East side of town. Not kidding. We simply do not have enough functioning schools outside of NW and helping a small number of kids stand a better shot of getting into one or two application high schools is not going to cut it.

[Anonymous]

Put BASIS in ward 7 and the kids who currently pick KIPP over their DCPS will keep picking it, the small minority of kids who go to their zoned schools will keep going there, and the new BASIS will still be heavily UMC kids. The charters in that area are there because they are popular among the people who live there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t see how having a bunch of 16 year olds in 7th grade helps anyone, anywhere. That’s what “end social promotion” means, in practical terms. It’s a terrible, terrible, terrible idea.

Some of the other rich countries have much better ways of dealing with academic stragglers than the equity obsessed US.

I recently visited a highly diverse government primary school in London England where upper grades students who tested a year+ behind grade level were pulled out of mainstream classrooms for intensive instruction in core subjects. The kids who were behind were taught separately in small group settings for half the school day. These kids were required to attend after school and Sat morning tutoring and were only permitted to return to mainstream classes once they could test at grade level. Was that such a horrible arrangement? Such a thoughtful system to support academic stragglers would obviously take money, organization, political will to implement, but why not do it here in DC? The arrangement seemed to be working very well for all concerned in the UK.

Isn’t this already DCPS policy? It’s what they did for my kid, anyway. Pretty bewildering to come on here and read that they should do it, but never will, when you’ve already lived it …

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There is too much emphasis on schools, kids with good work ethics and involved parents would do well at any school. My med school friends came from all levels of schools and colleges.

Doubt it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t see how having a bunch of 16 year olds in 7th grade helps anyone, anywhere. That’s what “end social promotion” means, in practical terms. It’s a terrible, terrible, terrible idea.

Some of the other rich countries have much better ways of dealing with academic stragglers than the equity obsessed US.

I recently visited a highly diverse government primary school in London England where upper grades students who tested a year+ behind grade level were pulled out of mainstream classrooms for intensive instruction in core subjects. The kids who were behind were taught separately in small group settings for half the school day. These kids were required to attend after school and Sat morning tutoring and were only permitted to return to mainstream classes once they could test at grade level. Was that such a horrible arrangement? Such a thoughtful system to support academic stragglers would obviously take money, organization, political will to implement, but why not do it here in DC? The arrangement seemed to be working very well for all concerned in the UK.

Everything you describe would be descried as "racist" and against "equity". The loop in DC is: minority kids don't have a fair shake because of systemic racism (which I happen to thin k is true) >> we cannot make them feel different or separate them >> the only possible solution is to bring everyone else down to their level.

Which crazily hurts the bright black kids probably more than any single group. Look at every school in DCPS - no matter how poorly performing, there are some PARCC 4s and a handful of 5s. Those kids need to be lifted up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Put BASIS in ward 7 and the kids who currently pick KIPP over their DCPS will keep picking it, the small minority of kids who go to their zoned schools will keep going there, and the new BASIS will still be heavily UMC kids. The charters in that area are there because they are popular among the people who live there.

I would like to see Basis or Kipp take over all the failing DCPS high schools, actually.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t see how having a bunch of 16 year olds in 7th grade helps anyone, anywhere. That’s what “end social promotion” means, in practical terms. It’s a terrible, terrible, terrible idea.

Some of the other rich countries have much better ways of dealing with academic stragglers than the equity obsessed US.

I recently visited a highly diverse government primary school in London England where upper grades students who tested a year+ behind grade level were pulled out of mainstream classrooms for intensive instruction in core subjects. The kids who were behind were taught separately in small group settings for half the school day. These kids were required to attend after school and Sat morning tutoring and were only permitted to return to mainstream classes once they could test at grade level. Was that such a horrible arrangement? Such a thoughtful system to support academic stragglers would obviously take money, organization, political will to implement, but why not do it here in DC? The arrangement seemed to be working very well for all concerned in the UK.

Isn’t this already DCPS policy? It’s what they did for my kid, anyway. Pretty bewildering to come on here and read that they should do it, but never will, when you’ve already lived it …

Your kid was pulled from gen ed, taught in small groups half the day, and rquired to go to Saturday school, and not allowed to rejoin until they got their scores up? I don't think so. Even with kids with significant learning disabilities, pull-outs are like 1-2 hrs/day and not on the weekends.

[Anonymous]

In other countries, there is differentiation within same school. You don't have to send your kids to schools all over town, because you have one large local school that has many different levels on offer, so that all kids can be placed appropriately?

Will this work perfectly? No, because traditionally differentiation was used to segregate. But if you work on making the system better, and from an earlier age, it could work.

The same schools should offer above-grade-level and remediation services. Yes, schools would have to be fairly large and be run efficiently. But everyone would get the education that they need and are capable of.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:In other countries, there is differentiation within same school. You don't have to send your kids to schools all over town, because you have one large local school that has many different levels on offer, so that all kids can be placed appropriately?

Will this work perfectly? No, because traditionally differentiation was used to segregate. But if you work on making the system better, and from an earlier age, it could work.

The same schools should offer above-grade-level and remediation services. Yes, schools would have to be fairly large and be run efficiently. But everyone would get the education that they need and are capable of.

DCPS's unwillingness to accept this is why IB schools will never actually integrate here. Complete fantasy that "honors for all" is what will remedy inequality.