I am confused between Stuart Hobson Middle School vs. Deal Middle School

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Last year, BASIS had under 50 9th graders. This year they have 86.

This is good for BASIS. That's way too small

Maybe more of a challenge than they're ready to handle. Space is already super tight, and more kids staying through HS will have to occupy space somewhere. Doesn't that mean smaller incoming classes going forward? It's not like DC approved their expansion request

Yes, they always flex the 5th grade class to maximize the # of students. So if more kids stay for 9th and up the 5th grade class gets smaller. Of course, the pendulum will swing back eventually because (and please DCUM, stop beating the dead horse) BASIS only admits kids in 5th. At some point the smaller 5th grade classes will yield smaller 9th grade classes and the 5th will get larger again. Which won't make people feel better in 2 years when they are in the 5th grade lottery and BASIS has a 5th grade class of 100 or less instead of the recent 130-140.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The reality is that the commute from the Hill to MacArthur is a real drag during rush hour. The future campus is nowhere near near a Metro stop or a bus route that goes from the Hill. I live near Union Station but used to work near the future campus, where free parking was available to me. Many mornings, it took me nearly an hour to get to work through traffic. Also, Walls is not the safe bet for strong Hill students it once was, now that the entrance exam and PARCC scores have both been dropped in the admissions process. Think twice about a DCPS middle school EotP. Might be better to move.

When was Walls ever a safe bet with waitlist of 100+ kids?

Pre Covid, Walls was quite a safe bet for the strongest 8th graders EotP, coming out of both public and private schools. Before Bowser began pressuring DCPS to admit more low-SES minority students from over the River, and to ditch the entrance exam and standardized test scores requirements (DC-CAS, then PARCC or PSAT or SAT score) the academically able would get in. I've lived on the Hill for 30 years and saw this phenomenon play out over and over, particularly for teens who were very good at math, regardless of race. The Walls entrance exams emphasized fairly tough algebra and geometry. No longer. Admission to Walls has essentially become a lottery in the last several years.

That's a false assumption. There may have been intent to attract more diverse students to Walls, including from EotP, but the school remains overwhelmingly white and/or higher SES and enrolls an extremely small number of students from EotP. Dropping the entrance exam had no impact on the demographics

Exactly, at the end of the day SWW is just difficult to get to from parts of the city. Maintaining a GPA requires a level of consistency and is a better indicator of the caliber of student than test scores. This is even true with all the grade inflation everywhere. None of it is perfect but the thought process seems to be that "my kid is a great test taker" so they deserve to be at Walls.

The really messed up, ugly thing is that when Walls had the entrance test, it wasn't that it admitted the "strongest" students in the city. It admitted the students who were both serious AND attended a middle school that even offered the level of math course they needed to have been exposed to to even place on the Walls test. Guess how many middle schools in DCPS even offered those courses? TWO. Deal and Stuart Hobson.

So the absolute farce is that a student had to a) live in those boundaries $ b) go to a private school $$ c) pay tutors $$$$ or d) come from a charter school--luck, invested parent. So no. That test was not finding the smartest, most deserving students. DCPS, by limiting its math curriculum at most middle schools, and certainly those EOTR, was absolutely limiting the pool of applicants. Whoever got in there in the past--my kid included---got in on the absolute inequity of the DC Public School system. The test was flawed, the current free for all is flawed. So what now?

Well you can absolutely blame the issue above on DCPS and their social promotion. Have you even looked at the data on DCPS middle schools EOTP?

Majority of them have percentages of students on grade level in math 10% or under, above grade level 0-5%. The overwhelmingly majority of kids are not only below grade level in math, but way below grade level. It’s not surprising the schools don’t offer more advance math classes because they don’t have the students for it. It’s astounding that these schools are allowed to continue functioning.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The reality is that the commute from the Hill to MacArthur is a real drag during rush hour. The future campus is nowhere near near a Metro stop or a bus route that goes from the Hill. I live near Union Station but used to work near the future campus, where free parking was available to me. Many mornings, it took me nearly an hour to get to work through traffic. Also, Walls is not the safe bet for strong Hill students it once was, now that the entrance exam and PARCC scores have both been dropped in the admissions process. Think twice about a DCPS middle school EotP. Might be better to move.

When was Walls ever a safe bet with waitlist of 100+ kids?

Pre Covid, Walls was quite a safe bet for the strongest 8th graders EotP, coming out of both public and private schools. Before Bowser began pressuring DCPS to admit more low-SES minority students from over the River, and to ditch the entrance exam and standardized test scores requirements (DC-CAS, then PARCC or PSAT or SAT score) the academically able would get in. I've lived on the Hill for 30 years and saw this phenomenon play out over and over, particularly for teens who were very good at math, regardless of race. The Walls entrance exams emphasized fairly tough algebra and geometry. No longer. Admission to Walls has essentially become a lottery in the last several years.

That's a false assumption. There may have been intent to attract more diverse students to Walls, including from EotP, but the school remains overwhelmingly white and/or higher SES and enrolls an extremely small number of students from EotP. Dropping the entrance exam had no impact on the demographics

Exactly, at the end of the day SWW is just difficult to get to from parts of the city. Maintaining a GPA requires a level of consistency and is a better indicator of the caliber of student than test scores. This is even true with all the grade inflation everywhere. None of it is perfect but the thought process seems to be that "my kid is a great test taker" so they deserve to be at Walls.

The really messed up, ugly thing is that when Walls had the entrance test, it wasn't that it admitted the "strongest" students in the city. It admitted the students who were both serious AND attended a middle school that even offered the level of math course they needed to have been exposed to to even place on the Walls test. Guess how many middle schools in DCPS even offered those courses? TWO. Deal and Stuart Hobson.

So the absolute farce is that a student had to a) live in those boundaries $ b) go to a private school $$ c) pay tutors $$$$ or d) come from a charter school--luck, invested parent. So no. That test was not finding the smartest, most deserving students. DCPS, by limiting its math curriculum at most middle schools, and certainly those EOTR, was absolutely limiting the pool of applicants. Whoever got in there in the past--my kid included---got in on the absolute inequity of the DC Public School system. The test was flawed, the current free for all is flawed. So what now?

My kid took Algebra in 8th at Adams, and the teacher had like 2 weeks of basic geometry classes after school for kids who wanted to take the Walls test. He took those and was admitted, as were many of his friends. The math really isn’t the barrier you’re making it out to be.

[Anonymous]

So a teacher at a DCPS school serving one of the wealthiest parts of DC provided additional math after school free of charge and that’s supposed to help folks realize there was not much of a math barrier to Walls?! That anecdote does nothing for folks of lesser means at middle schools EOTP. Check your privilege. It’s crazy how unequal the DCPS middle school options are with even the best in the wealthiest areas not offering enough. What will it take to raise the standards everywhere? Just because some schools are full of UMC kids does not mean the education is great as another poster mentioned. Just means the parents have the means to take matters more into their own hands…

[Anonymous]

This New Yorker of color is going to state the obvious: the solution definitely isn't dumbing down admissions standards to magnet high schools like DCPS and Bowser have done at Walls.

When I prepped for the test to Brooklyn Tech in the 80s, from my Title 1 middle school, I could take advantage of structured, free and well-resourced test prep programs in my borough funded by the city government. I also had access to reasonably good GT education in NYC public schools from grades 3-8.

As long as DC rejects GT ed, you can shout "check your privilege!" all you want at UMC parents of various races without that making a darn bit of difference.

Don't shoot the messenger, vote for DC politicians who advocate for more rigor and an end to social promotion in K-8 education in our public schools. David Catania used to talk like that on the city council and during his mayoral run. The fact that Stuart Hobson recently dumped honors English doesn't bode well for Ward 6, or Walls for that matter.

[Anonymous]

I don’t see how having a bunch of 16 year olds in 7th grade helps anyone, anywhere. That’s what “end social promotion” means, in practical terms. It’s a terrible, terrible, terrible idea.

[Anonymous]

Every thread that mentions Walls and/or G&T ends up the same. Complaining here will get nothing accomplished. Has there been any attempt to organize and work with the DC Council and/or Mayor's Office to actually implement a G&T program? This city has roughly 27% of kids in private schools. That is just ridiculous and I suspect most can't actually afford it gauging by FA needed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don’t see how having a bunch of 16 year olds in 7th grade helps anyone, anywhere. That’s what “end social promotion” means, in practical terms. It’s a terrible, terrible, terrible idea.

False choice. Stop it. You act like there are only two paths.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This New Yorker of color is going to state the obvious: the solution definitely isn't dumbing down admissions standards to magnet high schools like DCPS and Bowser have done at Walls.

When I prepped for the test to Brooklyn Tech in the 80s, from my Title 1 middle school, I could take advantage of structured, free and well-resourced test prep programs in my borough funded by the city government. I also had access to reasonably good GT education in NYC public schools from grades 3-8.

As long as DC rejects GT ed, you can shout "check your privilege!" all you want at UMC parents of various races without that making a darn bit of difference.

Don't shoot the messenger, vote for DC politicians who advocate for more rigor and an end to social promotion in K-8 education in our public schools. David Catania used to talk like that on the city council and during his mayoral run. The fact that Stuart Hobson recently dumped honors English doesn't bode well for Ward 6, or Walls for that matter.

ITA. I always wonder what will become of the few kids who are getting PARCC 5s while 70-80% of those classmates are failing. They deserve a GT program.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don’t see how having a bunch of 16 year olds in 7th grade helps anyone, anywhere. That’s what “end social promotion” means, in practical terms. It’s a terrible, terrible, terrible idea.

Some of the other rich countries have much better ways of dealing with academic stragglers than the equity obsessed US.

I recently visited a highly diverse government primary school in London England where upper grades students who tested a year+ behind grade level were pulled out of mainstream classrooms for intensive instruction in core subjects. The kids who were behind were taught separately in small group settings for half the school day. These kids were required to attend after school and Sat morning tutoring and were only permitted to return to mainstream classes once they could test at grade level. Was that such a horrible arrangement? Such a thoughtful system to support academic stragglers would obviously take money, organization, political will to implement, but why not do it here in DC? The arrangement seemed to be working very well for all concerned in the UK.

[Anonymous]

this wont be a popular answer. but i think it in theory makes sense for walls and the other dcps application hs to try to emphasize admitting the top performing students from each of the dcps middle schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:this wont be a popular answer. but i think it in theory makes sense for walls and the other dcps application hs to try to emphasize admitting the top performing students from each of the dcps middle schools.

A process that was test-in but had different cutoffs by middle school in order to get the top applicants from each would let parents plan to some degree around it, and you'd be getting a lot of the top-scoring students. DCPS is not interested in this level of transparency.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:this wont be a popular answer. but i think it in theory makes sense for walls and the other dcps application hs to try to emphasize admitting the top performing students from each of the dcps middle schools.

I think EOTP this has to happen - but by opening new schools/programs. We can and should keep the highly rigorous test-in schools, and also give real opportunity to grade level/advancex kids to get out of failing schools.

[Anonymous]

Why not just copy NYC and offer free test prep in every ward, starting in 6th or 7th grade? Students eligible for free or reduced meals could have a few extra points added to their scores if they turned up for the prep. Done. There are no shortcuts on the math prep. The kids either learn the math to cope with the curriculum or the curriculum invariably gets watered down to cater to kids who didn't get the requisite prep.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why not just copy NYC and offer free test prep in every ward, starting in 6th or 7th grade? Students eligible for free or reduced meals could have a few extra points added to their scores if they turned up for the prep. Done. There are no shortcuts on the math prep. The kids either learn the math to cope with the curriculum or the curriculum invariably gets watered down to cater to kids who didn't get the requisite prep.

So I think the reason this wouldn't solve the problem in DC is that even with this, you'd still wind up with far fewer kids in Wards 7/8 passing the test than elsewhere.

A long time ago when I first moved to DC, I had a roommate who was from Brooklyn and she told me that she viewed DC as a bizarrely segregated city compared to NYC. She was like "all the white people live in this one part of town and then the rest of the city is overwhelmingly black -- it is very weird." This was around 2001. I remember kind of dismissing it, thinking "well it feels relatively diverse where I live and work. Which, relatively it was, because we lived in U Street (which was just maybe starting to gentrify then) and I worked downtown.

But over the years living here, and also spending a lot more time in NYC, I have come to think she was totally right. DC is very segregated in a way NYC is not, even outside Manhattan. And it's segregated along BOTH race and class lines. And unlike NYC, it doesn't have a massive interconnected subway system that allows people from any part of the city to relatively easily travel to other parts of the city across these race/class lines. Things like Georgetown having no metro stop and the fundamental challenges in DC of traveling directly East-West (whether by road or metro) are very relevant to the question of whether we could adopt a NYC-type magnet system. Wards 7 and 8 are segregated AND cut off from the city in fundamental ways. And that makes it a lot harder to create a school system that easily moves students where the resources are.

Instead DC has tried to move the resources where the students are. That's theory behind the charter/lottery system, and the reason why most charters are EotP and why such a large number of charters are focused specifically on the needs of the city's black population that is in poverty (there is a reason there are so many Kipp campuses and why they are often popular -- they are designed to meet the needs of this population in a way that is approved by this group). And it just doesn't work that well. DCPS schools EotR just don't seem to get better. The charters might help at the elementary level but we don't have enough charters at the MS/HS level to serve as a replacement for the failing MS and HS on the east side of town (especially in Wards 7/8). And since we also don't have a good way to move students around the city, the charter system largely just benefits families who can live near charters or who can easily travel to them. Heck, you can make a compelling argument that the proliferation of charters in Wards 5 and 6 (or in Ward 6, the all-city schools like SWS or CHMS) have simply accelerated gentrification in those areas by attracting more wealthy families, who also tend to be whiter, and nothing ever really changes for the city's poorest residents in terms of education.

If you really want to get kids in Wards 7/8 access to strong education opportunities, I don't think simply offering test prep centers are going to do it. We need need to think holistically about the entire school system and look at all the ways that the city's poorest kids are impeded in accessing education -- there's an invisible wall in this city and we need to tear the wall down, not install more windows.