NCS college admissions if kid is not a legacy, URM, or athletic recruit

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The problem with private school and top college admissions is that colleges are going to take the top academic kids from each school. So if you are middle of the pack at private you are behind the top public school kids in the pecking order. And by the time admissions goes through the top public school kids all of the seats are allocated. So the bottom 70% of private school kids are at a disadvantage. I think that is the issue in a nutshell.

No, did the read the OP? Audi missed the point entirely
The issue is that the top academic kids at NCS (this year) year are not getting spots in top 30 or top 40 schools, The top spots are going entirely (or 95%) to athletes, legacy and URM. There is of course some overlap of course (athletes, legacies or URN with top academics) but if you're not one of these categories, you're not getting in to a top college from NCS--even if you are a TOP academic student. OP was asking where the top 20 academic kids can apply because the top colleges are off the table if you don't have a hook

I actually don’t think this statement is true - The kids who gained admission at those schools ARE the top kids (for the most points) and they all also happen to benefit from a hook. I look at that list and I can only think of maybe 2 kids where I am surprised at the placement. The issue is the other maybe 2-3 top kids, truly top cum laude, terminal math in advanced calculus etc. are not getting into top 30 colleges. The kids at the BU/BC/Tulane/WM are more the “top 40%” kids who at NCS are still exceptional. 10 years ago that group would be at UMich, Tufts etc. 5 years ago Tufts, Davidson, Wake etc. and now it’s like the B+\A- kids are BU/BC level which to some seems less impressive.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The problem with private school and top college admissions is that colleges are going to take the top academic kids from each school. So if you are middle of the pack at private you are behind the top public school kids in the pecking order. And by the time admissions goes through the top public school kids all of the seats are allocated. So the bottom 70% of private school kids are at a disadvantage. I think that is the issue in a nutshell.

I have a kid in a Big 3, so I say this against interest, but the top kids at the top public high schools in this area (and there are at least a dozen), including the magnets like Blair/Poolesville SMCS/CAP, TJ, RMIB, etc., are going to be more than competitive against the "middle of the pack at private." Why people think it should be otherwise is beyond me. Those top public school kids as a group (and it's a large group) are going to be competitive against the top kids at the top privates, including the one our kid attends. And plenty of them have as many hooks.

I wish it were otherwise, but every year I interview for my HYP alma mater, and I am blown away by the qualifications of the kids who do not get in.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The problem with private school and top college admissions is that colleges are going to take the top academic kids from each school. So if you are middle of the pack at private you are behind the top public school kids in the pecking order. And by the time admissions goes through the top public school kids all of the seats are allocated. So the bottom 70% of private school kids are at a disadvantage. I think that is the issue in a nutshell.

No, did the read the OP? Audi missed the point entirely
The issue is that the top academic kids at NCS (this year) year are not getting spots in top 30 or top 40 schools, The top spots are going entirely (or 95%) to athletes, legacy and URM. There is of course some overlap of course (athletes, legacies or URN with top academics) but if you're not one of these categories, you're not getting in to a top college from NCS--even if you are a TOP academic student. OP was asking where the top 20 academic kids can apply because the top colleges are off the table if you don't have a hook

I actually don’t think this statement is true - The kids who gained admission at those schools ARE the top kids (for the most points) and they all also happen to benefit from a hook. I look at that list and I can only think of maybe 2 kids where I am surprised at the placement. The issue is the other maybe 2-3 top kids, truly top cum laude, terminal math in advanced calculus etc. are not getting into top 30 colleges. The kids at the BU/BC/Tulane/WM are more the “top 40%” kids who at NCS are still exceptional. 10 years ago that group would be at UMich, Tufts etc. 5 years ago Tufts, Davidson, Wake etc. and now it’s like the B+\A- kids are BU/BC level which to some seems less impressive.

I would say that there is about 75% overlap. A decent 25% of the kids graduating as top academic kids are not getting into top 30 schools because they lack a hook. Some other things I would like to mention:
1)legacy is also not just ordinary legacy at NCS, especially this year. It's big donor legacy or 2-3 generation legacy. Plenty of legacy grads do not (and did not) get in, even with very good stats.
2)I know that NO kid is guaranteed a spot in a top 30 school but it's pretty crazy that you can graduate with an A-/B+ average at NCS and not crack the top 40 schools. I have a daughter at NCS and also have a public school graduate and can say that the work load, discipline, and shear smarts required to get A-/B+ average at NCS is 5 times what it required my
public school kid to get for straight As. My kid does not attend NCS for a boost in college admissions but this is sobering (? not sure that is word I'm looking for) none-the-less.

[Anonymous]

The other adjustment needed is the idea that there is something special or essential about the rankings in USNWR.

Until people accept that hundreds of colleges have stellar students getting a stellar eduction from stellar professors and going on to have stellar careers, this anxiety producing nonsense about only 10-20 colleges being acceptable for strong students will not end.

If your top student is attending a school ranked 60, that school has a fantastic student who will go on to do great things -- likely better things than a hundred kids from Harvard. The workforce makes this obvious; look around you. On top of that, that top-ranked kid from your school might not even be the top student at that 60th ranked college. Yours isn't the only super bright kid attending those schools ranked in the 40-120 range. Do you really think there aren't any geniuses at 117-ranked RIT? There are.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The problem with private school and top college admissions is that colleges are going to take the top academic kids from each school. So if you are middle of the pack at private you are behind the top public school kids in the pecking order. And by the time admissions goes through the top public school kids all of the seats are allocated. So the bottom 70% of private school kids are at a disadvantage. I think that is the issue in a nutshell.

No, did the read the OP? Audi missed the point entirely
The issue is that the top academic kids at NCS (this year) year are not getting spots in top 30 or top 40 schools, The top spots are going entirely (or 95%) to athletes, legacy and URM. There is of course some overlap of course (athletes, legacies or URN with top academics) but if you're not one of these categories, you're not getting in to a top college from NCS--even if you are a TOP academic student. OP was asking where the top 20 academic kids can apply because the top colleges are off the table if you don't have a hook

I actually don’t think this statement is true - The kids who gained admission at those schools ARE the top kids (for the most points) and they all also happen to benefit from a hook. I look at that list and I can only think of maybe 2 kids where I am surprised at the placement. The issue is the other maybe 2-3 top kids, truly top cum laude, terminal math in advanced calculus etc. are not getting into top 30 colleges. The kids at the BU/BC/Tulane/WM are more the “top 40%” kids who at NCS are still exceptional. 10 years ago that group would be at UMich, Tufts etc. 5 years ago Tufts, Davidson, Wake etc. and now it’s like the B+\A- kids are BU/BC level which to some seems less impressive.

I would say that there is about 75% overlap. A decent 25% of the kids graduating as top academic kids are not getting into top 30 schools because they lack a hook. Some other things I would like to mention:
1)legacy is also not just ordinary legacy at NCS, especially this year. It's big donor legacy or 2-3 generation legacy. Plenty of legacy grads do not (and did not) get in, even with very good stats.
2)I know that NO kid is guaranteed a spot in a top 30 school but it's pretty crazy that you can graduate with an A-/B+ average at NCS and not crack the top 40 schools. I have a daughter at NCS and also have a public school graduate and can say that the work load, discipline, and shear smarts required to get A-/B+ average at NCS is 5 times what it required my
public school kid to get for straight As. My kid does not attend NCS for a boost in college admissions but this is sobering (? not sure that is word I'm looking for) none-the-less.

How are you defining “top academic kids?” Are you defining that as Cum Laude society, or something broader? And how are you defining Top 40? Coming up with any sort of Top 40 is sort of arbitrary. Not every kid wants every school. Some kids don’t want SLACs. Some don’t want to leave the East Coast or attend a UC other than UCLA or Berkeley even though, for example, UCSB and UCSD are great schools. Some kids might have been looking for great Merit Aid, even at NCS. That’s the problem with making these generalizations when you don’t really know why people made the decisions they made. And the idea that its a material difference in outcome if some attends Tufts instead of BC or BU seems based on outdated thinking based on what admissions was like for us, not for our kids. I agree that NCS often seems overly rigorous. My DD just got through what was probably the toughest stretch of her NCS experience, and it is remarkably difficult to maintain the type of high average needed to get into some top schools. But there are also so many great options for these girls, and they seem to understand that better than their parents do. My DD knows so many stories of parents putting insane pressure on their kids about college. Does it not give you pause that the school feels the need to give a session for Junior Parents reminding them to love their daughters no matter where they get into college? Did that not embarrass you at all?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The problem with private school and top college admissions is that colleges are going to take the top academic kids from each school. So if you are middle of the pack at private you are behind the top public school kids in the pecking order. And by the time admissions goes through the top public school kids all of the seats are allocated. So the bottom 70% of private school kids are at a disadvantage. I think that is the issue in a nutshell.

I have a kid in a Big 3, so I say this against interest, but the top kids at the top public high schools in this area (and there are at least a dozen), including the magnets like Blair/Poolesville SMCS/CAP, TJ, RMIB, etc., are going to be more than competitive against the "middle of the pack at private." Why people think it should be otherwise is beyond me. Those top public school kids as a group (and it's a large group) are going to be competitive against the top kids at the top privates, including the one our kid attends. And plenty of them have as many hooks.

I wish it were otherwise, but every year I interview for my HYP alma mater, and I am blown away by the qualifications of the kids who do not get in.

This!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The problem with private school and top college admissions is that colleges are going to take the top academic kids from each school. So if you are middle of the pack at private you are behind the top public school kids in the pecking order. And by the time admissions goes through the top public school kids all of the seats are allocated. So the bottom 70% of private school kids are at a disadvantage. I think that is the issue in a nutshell.

No, did the read the OP? Audi missed the point entirely
The issue is that the top academic kids at NCS (this year) year are not getting spots in top 30 or top 40 schools, The top spots are going entirely (or 95%) to athletes, legacy and URM. There is of course some overlap of course (athletes, legacies or URN with top academics) but if you're not one of these categories, you're not getting in to a top college from NCS--even if you are a TOP academic student. OP was asking where the top 20 academic kids can apply because the top colleges are off the table if you don't have a hook

I actually don’t think this statement is true - The kids who gained admission at those schools ARE the top kids (for the most points) and they all also happen to benefit from a hook. I look at that list and I can only think of maybe 2 kids where I am surprised at the placement. The issue is the other maybe 2-3 top kids, truly top cum laude, terminal math in advanced calculus etc. are not getting into top 30 colleges. The kids at the BU/BC/Tulane/WM are more the “top 40%” kids who at NCS are still exceptional. 10 years ago that group would be at UMich, Tufts etc. 5 years ago Tufts, Davidson, Wake etc. and now it’s like the B+\A- kids are BU/BC level which to some seems less impressive.

I would say that there is about 75% overlap. A decent 25% of the kids graduating as top academic kids are not getting into top 30 schools because they lack a hook. Some other things I would like to mention:
1)legacy is also not just ordinary legacy at NCS, especially this year. It's big donor legacy or 2-3 generation legacy. Plenty of legacy grads do not (and did not) get in, even with very good stats.
2)I know that NO kid is guaranteed a spot in a top 30 school but it's pretty crazy that you can graduate with an A-/B+ average at NCS and not crack the top 40 schools. I have a daughter at NCS and also have a public school graduate and can say that the work load, discipline, and shear smarts required to get A-/B+ average at NCS is 5 times what it required my
public school kid to get for straight As. My kid does not attend NCS for a boost in college admissions but this is sobering (? not sure that is word I'm looking for) none-the-less.

How are you defining “top academic kids?” Are you defining that as Cum Laude society, or something broader? And how are you defining Top 40? Coming up with any sort of Top 40 is sort of arbitrary. Not every kid wants every school. Some kids don’t want SLACs. Some don’t want to leave the East Coast or attend a UC other than UCLA or Berkeley even though, for example, UCSB and UCSD are great schools. Some kids might have been looking for great Merit Aid, even at NCS. That’s the problem with making these generalizations when you don’t really know why people made the decisions they made. And the idea that its a material difference in outcome if some attends Tufts instead of BC or BU seems based on outdated thinking based on what admissions was like for us, not for our kids. I agree that NCS often seems overly rigorous. My DD just got through what was probably the toughest stretch of her NCS experience, and it is remarkably difficult to maintain the type of high average needed to get into some top schools. But there are also so many great options for these girls, and they seem to understand that better than their parents do. My DD knows so many stories of parents putting insane pressure on their kids about college. Does it not give you pause that the school feels the need to give a session for Junior Parents reminding them to love their daughters no matter where they get into college? Did that not embarrass you at all?

That is embarrassing. Our daughter will be at NCS next year and this thread has been interesting to read. I took a look at the Instagram posts discussed and many are headed to highly selective schools. I am wondering too, given that NCS has a wonderful amount of FA to give, if some college decisions are made based on cost or scholarships awarded. Not all girls can afford full tuition at NCS or full tuition at college. I was impressed with so many of the outcomes and a few I’m sure are not athletic hooks (like Harvey Mudd, which requires stats higher and extracurriculars than some Ivy League schools these days). There are many paths to a highly successful life and I’m sure all these girls have an advantage having gone to NCS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This board seems to agree that the quality of education at NCS provides a superior preparatory education -- couldn't we then argue that the quality of education at elite colleges may be similarly superior, and we would therefore want that for our kids?

What makes you think that the quality of education at the so-called "elite colleges" is actually "similarly superior" and not available elsewhere?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is especially true in the humanities and social sciences where students must produce written work that is on a PHD level to earn an A.

This is either crazy hyperbole or you are grossly underestimating what it takes to do PHD level work.

OP may not entirely accurate in comparing the writing standards with PhDs, but not that far either. An A requires extremely high quality work where papers are being judged by teacher who, for most part, appear to have lost track of the fact that they are evaluating high school students.

I have daughters at NCS and I routinely say that the writing standards in high school are beyond what was expected at my university. I went to a top 30 college FWIW.

Three cheers for overkill. Unf doing it in the sports field has better results than for junior year literature and writing class.

True. When top schools prioritize sports over academic skills...

Was referring to where a student may spend their time. Getting better at your sport and trying out for state or national team.
Or doing hour 4 or 5 homework for your prima donna literature teacher who only gives out Bs.

What’s better for your sanity, life and college portfolio/application.

The school doesn’t prioritize sports, they can barely cobble together teams and their smal sizes. All the good athletes at private and public do top travel teams or state teams or compete solo in east coast tournaments. Their high school sports team is not the highlight of their athletic accomplishments whatsoever. So no, school doesn’t help there.

[Anonymous]

Except for crew

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The problem with private school and top college admissions is that colleges are going to take the top academic kids from each school. So if you are middle of the pack at private you are behind the top public school kids in the pecking order. And by the time admissions goes through the top public school kids all of the seats are allocated. So the bottom 70% of private school kids are at a disadvantage. I think that is the issue in a nutshell.

No, did the read the OP? Audi missed the point entirely
The issue is that the top academic kids at NCS (this year) year are not getting spots in top 30 or top 40 schools, The top spots are going entirely (or 95%) to athletes, legacy and URM. There is of course some overlap of course (athletes, legacies or URN with top academics) but if you're not one of these categories, you're not getting in to a top college from NCS--even if you are a TOP academic student. OP was asking where the top 20 academic kids can apply because the top colleges are off the table if you don't have a hook

I actually don’t think this statement is true - The kids who gained admission at those schools ARE the top kids (for the most points) and they all also happen to benefit from a hook. I look at that list and I can only think of maybe 2 kids where I am surprised at the placement. The issue is the other maybe 2-3 top kids, truly top cum laude, terminal math in advanced calculus etc. are not getting into top 30 colleges. The kids at the BU/BC/Tulane/WM are more the “top 40%” kids who at NCS are still exceptional. 10 years ago that group would be at UMich, Tufts etc. 5 years ago Tufts, Davidson, Wake etc. and now it’s like the B+\A- kids are BU/BC level which to some seems less impressive.

Wrong. Look at the list of schools most are in the top 40. I don’t think you’ve looked at a list of college rankings in a long time take a look and come back to us.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The problem with private school and top college admissions is that colleges are going to take the top academic kids from each school. So if you are middle of the pack at private you are behind the top public school kids in the pecking order. And by the time admissions goes through the top public school kids all of the seats are allocated. So the bottom 70% of private school kids are at a disadvantage. I think that is the issue in a nutshell.

No, did the read the OP? Audi missed the point entirely
The issue is that the top academic kids at NCS (this year) year are not getting spots in top 30 or top 40 schools, The top spots are going entirely (or 95%) to athletes, legacy and URM. There is of course some overlap of course (athletes, legacies or URN with top academics) but if you're not one of these categories, you're not getting in to a top college from NCS--even if you are a TOP academic student. OP was asking where the top 20 academic kids can apply because the top colleges are off the table if you don't have a hook

I actually don’t think this statement is true - The kids who gained admission at those schools ARE the top kids (for the most points) and they all also happen to benefit from a hook. I look at that list and I can only think of maybe 2 kids where I am surprised at the placement. The issue is the other maybe 2-3 top kids, truly top cum laude, terminal math in advanced calculus etc. are not getting into top 30 colleges. The kids at the BU/BC/Tulane/WM are more the “top 40%” kids who at NCS are still exceptional. 10 years ago that group would be at UMich, Tufts etc. 5 years ago Tufts, Davidson, Wake etc. and now it’s like the B+\A- kids are BU/BC level which to some seems less impressive.

Omg what is your issue!? You sound so neurotic I’m so worried for your children seriously. You’ve put way too much thought into this calculating top averages and percentages. What is your point? It’s this way at all schools everywhere. Get a grip. What is your point seriously I would like to know? If NCS is so bad and you’re there then leave. More applicants are applying to college than ever before in the history of our country. True fact. Things have changed. It’s this way everywhere things have changed and they will continue to change. You better brace yourself.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The problem with private school and top college admissions is that colleges are going to take the top academic kids from each school. So if you are middle of the pack at private you are behind the top public school kids in the pecking order. And by the time admissions goes through the top public school kids all of the seats are allocated. So the bottom 70% of private school kids are at a disadvantage. I think that is the issue in a nutshell.

I have a kid in a Big 3, so I say this against interest, but the top kids at the top public high schools in this area (and there are at least a dozen), including the magnets like Blair/Poolesville SMCS/CAP, TJ, RMIB, etc., are going to be more than competitive against the "middle of the pack at private." Why people think it should be otherwise is beyond me. Those top public school kids as a group (and it's a large group) are going to be competitive against the top kids at the top privates, including the one our kid attends. And plenty of them have as many hooks.

I wish it were otherwise, but every year I interview for my HYP alma mater, and I am blown away by the qualifications of the kids who do not get in.

But but but what are we paying all this money for at NCS?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The problem with private school and top college admissions is that colleges are going to take the top academic kids from each school. So if you are middle of the pack at private you are behind the top public school kids in the pecking order. And by the time admissions goes through the top public school kids all of the seats are allocated. So the bottom 70% of private school kids are at a disadvantage. I think that is the issue in a nutshell.

I have a kid in a Big 3, so I say this against interest, but the top kids at the top public high schools in this area (and there are at least a dozen), including the magnets like Blair/Poolesville SMCS/CAP, TJ, RMIB, etc., are going to be more than competitive against the "middle of the pack at private." Why people think it should be otherwise is beyond me. Those top public school kids as a group (and it's a large group) are going to be competitive against the top kids at the top privates, including the one our kid attends. And plenty of them have as many hooks.

I wish it were otherwise, but every year I interview for my HYP alma mater, and I am blown away by the qualifications of the kids who do not get in.

But but but what are we paying all this money for at NCS?

So much. Beautiful facilities and campus, involved and like minded parents, class trips, sports travel trips for spring break, small classes, one on one time with advisors 10-1 ratio, cathedral services, college like athletic facilities, no metal detectors to get into campus, Being in class with students pretty much on the same academic level, where being smart is cool, and so much more. The academics and writing are top notch and our public school in dc is riddled with violence and kids doing drugs at school in the bathroom. Yes it’s true several friends left because of it. No comparison here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The problem with private school and top college admissions is that colleges are going to take the top academic kids from each school. So if you are middle of the pack at private you are behind the top public school kids in the pecking order. And by the time admissions goes through the top public school kids all of the seats are allocated. So the bottom 70% of private school kids are at a disadvantage. I think that is the issue in a nutshell.

I have a kid in a Big 3, so I say this against interest, but the top kids at the top public high schools in this area (and there are at least a dozen), including the magnets like Blair/Poolesville SMCS/CAP, TJ, RMIB, etc., are going to be more than competitive against the "middle of the pack at private." Why people think it should be otherwise is beyond me. Those top public school kids as a group (and it's a large group) are going to be competitive against the top kids at the top privates, including the one our kid attends. And plenty of them have as many hooks.

I wish it were otherwise, but every year I interview for my HYP alma mater, and I am blown away by the qualifications of the kids who do not get in.

But but but what are we paying all this money for at NCS?

So much. Beautiful facilities and campus, involved and like minded parents, class trips, sports travel trips for spring break, small classes, one on one time with advisors 10-1 ratio, cathedral services, college like athletic facilities, no metal detectors to get into campus, Being in class with students pretty much on the same academic level, where being smart is cool, and so much more. The academics and writing are top notch and our public school in dc is riddled with violence and kids doing drugs at school in the bathroom. Yes it’s true several friends left because of it. No comparison here.

Because it is an elite school + the women will be leaders of tomorrow instead of taking a back seat to the boys in public + private schools. If all you want is an "Mrs."- stick with something easier.