2 Year Old Dragged into Water by Gator at Disney Resort

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:[quo=Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I agree that this is not going to trial. Disney will settle out of court, and in fact, has probably already reached out to the family offering to do so. While I don't think that this is Disney's "fault", or anyone's fault except possibly the alligator's, I do think that Disney is liable for things that happen on their property. I also think that the cost of lost business due to publicity will be a huge factor in their decision to settle.

Having said all that, I do think that Disney's alligator management program is pretty strong if it's prevented all deaths except this one. For comparison, during the same period at least 3 kids have drowned in Disney's pools, and no one is calling for them to rethink the decision to have swimming pools.

Yes, and no. If they had a sign up that said "Stay out of the water b/c there are alligators in there," you can bet that the kid wouldn't have been in the water. But informing their guests of this would perhaps make them think twice of staying at the resort, so of course, they don't say anything.

This is a ridiculous line of argument.

Sounds pretty accurate to me.

No its ridiculous. Your premise is that Disney would rather risk that single resort (a famed 'original five' luxury Disney resort) suddenly tanking or becoming somewhat less attractive to guests (which is ludicrous per my other parenthetical) than the pr nightmare of this apparently completely anticipated alligator attack on a toddler. The nightmare that in addition to costing this boy his life will cost Disney A LOT of money in likely lost revenue and in that hotel for sure suffering now. Seriously?

The mouse is a lot of things, that terrible at risk management is not one of them.

Yet here we are.

Were here with am unforseen tragedy having just occurred and you feeling like there has to be some evil person cackling in the background having masterminded it?

No but I think as time goes on and more reports come in, it will be confirmed that Disney cast members were told about gators and did zero. Zip. Zilch. There's thousands of cast members. Many are college program kids who come to work there 6 months and then leave. It's disorganized.

Ah yes I hear a lot of people say that about Disney, it's so disorganized

[Anonymous]

This link shows the signs and temporary fencing Disney put up at the Grand Floridian today. It also gives you a good look at that water -- one look at that, I knew to stay out of it in Florida.

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/business/tourism/os-disney-grand-floridian-fence-sign-20160617-story.html

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:[quo=Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I agree that this is not going to trial. Disney will settle out of court, and in fact, has probably already reached out to the family offering to do so. While I don't think that this is Disney's "fault", or anyone's fault except possibly the alligator's, I do think that Disney is liable for things that happen on their property. I also think that the cost of lost business due to publicity will be a huge factor in their decision to settle.

Having said all that, I do think that Disney's alligator management program is pretty strong if it's prevented all deaths except this one. For comparison, during the same period at least 3 kids have drowned in Disney's pools, and no one is calling for them to rethink the decision to have swimming pools.

Yes, and no. If they had a sign up that said "Stay out of the water b/c there are alligators in there," you can bet that the kid wouldn't have been in the water. But informing their guests of this would perhaps make them think twice of staying at the resort, so of course, they don't say anything.

This is a ridiculous line of argument.

Sounds pretty accurate to me.

No its ridiculous. Your premise is that Disney would rather risk that single resort (a famed 'original five' luxury Disney resort) suddenly tanking or becoming somewhat less attractive to guests (which is ludicrous per my other parenthetical) than the pr nightmare of this apparently completely anticipated alligator attack on a toddler. The nightmare that in addition to costing this boy his life will cost Disney A LOT of money in likely lost revenue and in that hotel for sure suffering now. Seriously?

The mouse is a lot of things, that terrible at risk management is not one of them.

Yet here we are.

Were here with am unforseen tragedy having just occurred and you feeling like there has to be some evil person cackling in the background having masterminded it?

Not the PP, but definitely believe it was a calculated risk that Disney took with full knowledge. I haven't been to Disney since 1973 and the prevalence of reptiles in all parts of Florida is pretty well known. Not at all unforseen.

It makes sense that Disney would want its patrons to believe that all was safe, but there is no way in hell they were unaware of the possibility. The body of water around this hotel was manmade, but it was open to other waters.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:Look, ultimately, it was an accident. The parents should not be blamed. Disney should not be blamed. They will pay, which they should, but this was an incredibly unusual, freak accident. Sometimes, nobody is at fault.

How can you say, at this point, that Disney should not be blamed?

Because they cannot control mother nature, and had no reason to assume any child would be attacked and eaten by a gator on their property since it has never happened in the history of the park. And because there WERE no swimming signs. But since it did happen on their property, they should and will pay the family some damages. Held entirely to blame? No. They didn't have any foresight that this was an expected thing to happen.

It seems proven at this point that Disney knew there were alligators in that water. If that is the case, the "No Swimming" signs should have read something along the lines of "Do not go in the water. Alligators present. Swim/wade at your own risk." I great up on the East Coast and I've been to Florida several times so I know there are alligators there. But never in a million years would I have expected that alligators would be present in a man-made body of water on Disney's property. And I don't think swimming and wading are the same things either. So the signage should make it clear to stay completely away from the water.

I studied abroad in Australia in the 90s and there were crocodile warning signs all over the place. On one guided trip our tour guide had us swim through a channel in order to get to a waterfall. The channel had crocodile warning signs but the guide assured us they weren't actually in there because it was the dry season. I can assure you I was terrified the entire swim but I knew very clearly that I was swimming at my own risk.

The parents of this poor child should have had the benefit of a warning that alligators were present. I bet their son would be alive right now if that were the case.

Exactly. Another issue Disney will face, if this ever goes to court which I can't imagine that it will, is that the signs didn't just say "no swimming" - they said "steep drop off, deep water, no swimming" - by giving a reason for the "no swimming" being a steep drop off and deep water, it gives the impression that being present at the water's edge would not pose much if any danger. Disney would have had a better argument actually if it literally just said "no swimming" and didn't give reasons.

Sigh. The picture everyone is referring to was taken during construction of the grand Floridian villas many years ago. There is no drop off now. I've said it 20 times. It looks like any other beach with zero entry look.

But the water is so gross and sketchy looking! Even in the picture posted by that other mom in FB saying her child was in the same spot 30 minutes earlier. The water IN HER PICTURE looks nasty. Alligators or not, you wouldn't catch me in there!

Okay, but then you wouldn't go in the water because it looks nasty. Not because of risk of an alligator eating your child.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Not the PP, but definitely believe it was a calculated risk that Disney took with full knowledge. I haven't been to Disney since 1973 and the prevalence of reptiles in all parts of Florida is pretty well known. Not at all unforseen.

It makes sense that Disney would want its patrons to believe that all was safe, but there is no way in hell they were unaware of the possibility. The body of water around this hotel was manmade, but it was open to other waters.

In Disney or in the rest of Florida, gator attacks aren't common (getting struck by lightning happens much more frequently) and gator deaths are extremely rare. It makes sense that Disney didn't think the risk was very high. Now they are making changes to reduce the risk more.

[Anonymous]

I worked at Disney briefly in college. I saw the manager once the whole time I worked there. They were all in a trailer behind the scenes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My family thinks the parents drowned the kid.

Oh geeze. Here come the alligator truthers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My family thinks the parents drowned the kid.

huh? What is the basis for that? I thought there were other witnesses that saw the alligator grab the kid.

DP. The basis for that is that no one else saw anything. Or at least as far as I can tell. A busy crowded beach with children and families everywhere (including in the water?) but there.

We can only trust the ME that this did not happen.

[Anonymous]

I think just like Disney has a duty to perform maintenance on its rides, it also has a duty to maintain its grounds in a safe manner.

In order to not be negligent, Disney is required to take reasonable measures to avoid foreseeable harm. This doesn't mean removing every alligator from a lake, but based on recent sightings near the lake and reports of guests feeding alligators nearby (facts only Disney had and not this family), I would say they did not meet that duty. Especially when the action of posting signs is a fairly low burden on the company and the risk, while small, had the potential for something horrific to happen.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm going on record to say I feel bad for the people who work at Disney. (I also feel bad for the parents, but that's obvious.) People rant that Disney only cares about money; I don't think so. I think to work at such a child-centered company, even if you're in the corporate office, you have to really like children at an above-average level. Kind of like being a teacher and having a child die in your classroom. I bet the employees who were nearby on that beach feel absolutely terrible.

You're on record alright-- for being naive.

[Anonymous]

FYI regarding water mocassin venomous snakes at Disney/FL: child was bitten by deadly water mocassin on dry land near bus path.

http://www.disboards.com/threads/don-t-let-this-happen-to-your-family.2277822/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My family thinks the parents drowned the kid.

huh? What is the basis for that? I thought there were other witnesses that saw the alligator grab the kid.

DP. The basis for that is that no one else saw anything. Or at least as far as I can tell. A busy crowded beach with children and families everywhere (including in the water?) but there.

We can only trust the ME that this did not happen.

Well, wouldn't the ME be able to confirm where the alligator grabbed the child? There would be some sort of mark on the child's skin. He wasn't in the water long enough for that to not be noticeable.

If it's foul play, the ME would know, and I'm sure it would come out in the news eventually.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think just like Disney has a duty to perform maintenance on its rides, it also has a duty to maintain its grounds in a safe manner.

In order to not be negligent, Disney is required to take reasonable measures to avoid foreseeable harm. This doesn't mean removing every alligator from a lake, but based on recent sightings near the lake and reports of guests feeding alligators nearby (facts only Disney had and not this family), I would say they did not meet that duty. Especially when the action of posting signs is a fairly low burden on the company and the risk, while small, had the potential for something horrific to happen.

I agree that Disney has a duty to (a) post signs to beware of alligators and (b) post signs not to feed alligators and post a fine.

They get people from all over the country and world.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My family thinks the parents drowned the kid.

huh? What is the basis for that? I thought there were other witnesses that saw the alligator grab the kid.

DP. The basis for that is that no one else saw anything. Or at least as far as I can tell. A busy crowded beach with children and families everywhere (including in the water?) but there.

We can only trust the ME that this did not happen.

Well, wouldn't the ME be able to confirm where the alligator grabbed the child? There would be some sort of mark on the child's skin. He wasn't in the water long enough for that to not be noticeable.

If it's foul play, the ME would know, and I'm sure it would come out in the news eventually.

The medical examiner said the child dies from trauma and drowning.

[Anonymous]

https://www.yahoo.com/news/disturbing-video-shows-disney-employee-204600656.html

Yikes. Video of small gator next to boats full of Splash Mountain riders.