Is it me or are test scores now more important than ever?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I swear I heard the Dartmouth guy (Lee coffin?) saying that when, after admissions cycle ended, they solicited from College Board the scores for TO applicants who had taken the test, and saw a clear linear correlation between test scores and GPA. Very rarely did they diverge, so the SATs only backed up why they were already seeing without the scores. Did anyone else hear that conversation? Am I misremembering? Might have been on Your College Bound Kid. Maybe 4-5 months ago?

Thinking out loud, if the relationship were always that linear, they wouldn't be angling toward test-recommended.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I swear I heard the Dartmouth guy (Lee coffin?) saying that when, after admissions cycle ended, they solicited from College Board the scores for TO applicants who had taken the test, and saw a clear linear correlation between test scores and GPA. Very rarely did they diverge, so the SATs only backed up why they were already seeing without the scores. Did anyone else hear that conversation? Am I misremembering? Might have been on Your College Bound Kid. Maybe 4-5 months ago?

This doesn't make any sense. Assumably the test optional matriculants had high GPAs. And that Dartmouth subsequently learned that they also had high SAT scores that they just didn't submit?

Why would these kids have not submitted their high scores?

None of this makes sense.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I swear I heard the Dartmouth guy (Lee coffin?) saying that when, after admissions cycle ended, they solicited from College Board the scores for TO applicants who had taken the test, and saw a clear linear correlation between test scores and GPA. Very rarely did they diverge, so the SATs only backed up why they were already seeing without the scores. Did anyone else hear that conversation? Am I misremembering? Might have been on Your College Bound Kid. Maybe 4-5 months ago?

+1 Not sure if it was on YCBK or Dartmouth's podcast. I think the confusion is that he had a similar discussion with the AO from Yale.

Just to clarify, he was speaking within the context of test optional and academic performance at Dartmouth. He said a few things of relevance to this discussion:

1) last academic year, Dartmouth had the highest number of students on academic probation, which he attributed to TO.
2) Students should submit scores, even if they are within the 25-50th percentile because their research shows that the scores validate the GPAs. Also, students at under-resourced schools should also submit scores even if the scores are under 25th percentile because it could validate the grades. He implied that Dartmouth has the data to determine the cutoff score to succeed at Dartmouth, e.g., 1300.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I swear I heard the Dartmouth guy (Lee coffin?) saying that when, after admissions cycle ended, they solicited from College Board the scores for TO applicants who had taken the test, and saw a clear linear correlation between test scores and GPA. Very rarely did they diverge, so the SATs only backed up why they were already seeing without the scores. Did anyone else hear that conversation? Am I misremembering? Might have been on Your College Bound Kid. Maybe 4-5 months ago?

This doesn't make any sense. Assumably the test optional matriculants had high GPAs. And that Dartmouth subsequently learned that they also had high SAT scores that they just didn't submit?

Why would these kids have not submitted their high scores?

None of this makes sense.

I posted below (12:27) to clarify the OP. The students are not submitting high scores because they don't think the scores are high enough. In other words, students are not submitting, or else their score is at least within the 50-75 percentile and, in many cases, above the 75th, which is increasing the average at Dartmouth and peer schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I swear I heard the Dartmouth guy (Lee coffin?) saying that when, after admissions cycle ended, they solicited from College Board the scores for TO applicants who had taken the test, and saw a clear linear correlation between test scores and GPA. Very rarely did they diverge, so the SATs only backed up why they were already seeing without the scores. Did anyone else hear that conversation? Am I misremembering? Might have been on Your College Bound Kid. Maybe 4-5 months ago?

+1 Not sure if it was on YCBK or Dartmouth's podcast. I think the confusion is that he had a similar discussion with the AO from Yale.

Just to clarify, he was speaking within the context of test optional and academic performance at Dartmouth. He said a few things of relevance to this discussion:

1) last academic year, Dartmouth had the highest number of students on academic probation, which he attributed to TO.
2) Students should submit scores, even if they are within the 25-50th percentile because their research shows that the scores validate the GPAs. Also, students at under-resourced schools should also submit scores even if the scores are under 25th percentile because it could validate the grades. He implied that Dartmouth has the data to determine the cutoff score to succeed at Dartmouth, e.g., 1300.

oops:

**Just to clarify, he was speaking within the context of test optional, grade inflation, and academic performance at Dartmouth.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I swear I heard the Dartmouth guy (Lee coffin?) saying that when, after admissions cycle ended, they solicited from College Board the scores for TO applicants who had taken the test, and saw a clear linear correlation between test scores and GPA. Very rarely did they diverge, so the SATs only backed up why they were already seeing without the scores. Did anyone else hear that conversation? Am I misremembering? Might have been on Your College Bound Kid. Maybe 4-5 months ago?

Then--why not submit? If they had an 'in-range' GPA for Dartmouth--then, given what you said, their test scores should also have been 'in-range'.

I never heard that from Dartmouth, personally. But, I did hear them say the bit about how the data they collected showed that TO correlated with more students on academic probation in the school's history (students were primarily TO admits).

[Anonymous]

I have a current Senior.

He's my firstborn, so I listened to A LOT of talks by AOs and advisors.

This is what was the conclusion amongst them:

If you are from a wealthy area/good school district: they expect to see scores.
If you have a high GPA and no scores: they proceed with caution.

I heard several times in these talks: who isn't submitting a 35 ACT or 1500+ SAT. (this was primarily for T1-25 schools).

[Anonymous]

I’m the PP who is remembering or misremembering the conversation. The (possibly apocryphal) convo stuck with me bc due to some health issues and hospitalization, my own kid had a GPA that, relative to her scores, was on the low side, and that’s apparently atypical.

Just did some searching and PPs are correct that Lee Coffin has said Dartmouth values scores, bc scores + grades give the fullest picture. (Maybe it wasn’t him?)

If someone remembers what I’m remembering, I’d love to know. Otherwise all should ignore my comment bc I really can’t back it up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’m the PP who is remembering or misremembering the conversation. The (possibly apocryphal) convo stuck with me bc due to some health issues and hospitalization, my own kid had a GPA that, relative to her scores, was on the low side, and that’s apparently atypical.

Just did some searching and PPs are correct that Lee Coffin has said Dartmouth values scores, bc scores + grades give the fullest picture. (Maybe it wasn’t him?)

If someone remembers what I’m remembering, I’d love to know. Otherwise all should ignore my comment bc I really can’t back it up.

Of course they do. The more info you can provide about your IQ, ability to do college level work, self, etc.--the better.

I'll go as far to say showing 4-5s on all AP courses is another indicator, with ACT/SAT and GPA. Add a college credit too, etc.

Of course, the more you can show the better picture they have of your ability.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’m the PP who is remembering or misremembering the conversation. The (possibly apocryphal) convo stuck with me bc due to some health issues and hospitalization, my own kid had a GPA that, relative to her scores, was on the low side, and that’s apparently atypical.

Just did some searching and PPs are correct that Lee Coffin has said Dartmouth values scores, bc scores + grades give the fullest picture. (Maybe it wasn’t him?)

If someone remembers what I’m remembering, I’d love to know. Otherwise all should ignore my comment bc I really can’t back it up.

I'm sorry about your child's health issues. I hope they are doing well now.

Be sure she/he mentioned it in the common app section (and/or in counselor letter)--to give context to lower gpa relative to scores.

[Anonymous]

Bumping up for TO discussion and schools mentioned here that may value TO applicants more than others.

[Anonymous]

If you shoot for top 10, absolutely go TO if SAT < 1550.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If you shoot for top 10, absolutely go TO if SAT < 1550.

Gosh.. really? How did my kid's 1540 get them into MIT?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have a current Senior.

He's my firstborn, so I listened to A LOT of talks by AOs and advisors.

This is what was the conclusion amongst them:

If you are from a wealthy area/good school district: they expect to see scores.
If you have a high GPA and no scores: they proceed with caution.

I heard several times in these talks: who isn't submitting a 35 ACT or 1500+ SAT. (this was primarily for T1-25 schools).

Our school district is huge with big disparities, school well-rated but not top school and area MC. Will it matter? My DS got a 1210...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you shoot for top 10, absolutely go TO if SAT < 1550.

Gosh.. really? How did my kid's 1540 get them into MIT?

when did that happen?