Is it me or are test scores now more important than ever?

[Anonymous]

I agree with the TO sentiment but for the privileged but not hooked (i.e. high HHI, highly resourced school, what most of the DMV students who apply to these T20 students fit into) I get the vibe you are expected to submit 50th percentile+ testing to support your worth versus your peers. The score creep is astounding even at the not T20 schools -- middle 50th percentile range at BC is now 1420 - 1530.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I agree with the TO sentiment but for the privileged but not hooked (i.e. high HHI, highly resourced school, what most of the DMV students who apply to these T20 students fit into) I get the vibe you are expected to submit 50th percentile+ testing to support your worth versus your peers. The score creep is astounding even at the not T20 schools -- middle 50th percentile range at BC is now 1420 - 1530.

What schools did you not submit scores for if btw 25th -50th percentile?

My kids score - sometimes in the 25th percentile for top 20 schools - was submitted. If uw GPA was over 3.95, maybe diff story, but DC had to submit given gpa.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I agree with the TO sentiment but for the privileged but not hooked (i.e. high HHI, highly resourced school, what most of the DMV students who apply to these T20 students fit into) I get the vibe you are expected to submit 50th percentile+ testing to support your worth versus your peers. The score creep is astounding even at the not T20 schools -- middle 50th percentile range at BC is now 1420 - 1530.

Really depends on the entire package.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’m the PP who is remembering or misremembering the conversation. The (possibly apocryphal) convo stuck with me bc due to some health issues and hospitalization, my own kid had a GPA that, relative to her scores, was on the low side, and that’s apparently atypical.

Just did some searching and PPs are correct that Lee Coffin has said Dartmouth values scores, bc scores + grades give the fullest picture. (Maybe it wasn’t him?)

If someone remembers what I’m remembering, I’d love to know. Otherwise all should ignore my comment bc I really can’t back it up.

Here is the full interview. In the summary, it says, "Lee answers a question from a listener, and just like in our first interview when Lee broke some new news by talking about how they went from test-optional to test-recommended, Lee breaks some even bigger news in his detailed answer to the question." He does talk about they are testing using AI for the first round of look throughs (or something like that).
https://yourcollegeboundkid.com/2023/12/19/interview-160-lee-coffin-on-understanding-dartmouth/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For the last time, the private T25 schools that accept the most number of TO students - of any background, are:

WashU
Vanderbilt
Cornell

And further down:
Wake
Tulane

This list is a few short:


WashU
Vanderbilt
Cornell
UChicago
USC

And further down:
Wake
TulanE
Northeastern

Hope this will be helpful to others next year. Especially those with higher GPA than test scores.

Private college counselors keep this type of data close to the vest, but it’s actually really easy to find if you look at the schools CDS.

Thanks.
Bookmarking for my junior with great grades and rigor and so far….not so hot test scores

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For the last time, the private T25 schools that accept the most number of TO students - of any background, are:

WashU
Vanderbilt
Cornell

And further down:
Wake
Tulane

This list is a few short:


WashU
Vanderbilt
Cornell
UChicago
USC

And further down:
Wake
TulanE
Northeastern

Hope this will be helpful to others next year. Especially those with higher GPA than test scores.

Private college counselors keep this type of data close to the vest, but it’s actually really easy to find if you look at the schools CDS.

Add:
Swarthmore
Amherst
Williams
Carnegie Mellon

Next tier:
SMU
BU
Villanova
Tufts
Pepperdine

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Agree. With grade inflation, etc., test scores are a way — the only way? — to substantiate a kid’s academic achievements. And the thing about test scores, as I’ve seen with my DS, anyone can get a 1500 if they’re willing to put in the work.

The bolded is incorrect.

+1000
No. Not everyone can get a 750 or both sections, or there about, or an ACT score of 33 by just putting in the work. Only for the small percentage of people (overall) who are capable enough to begin with.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For the last time, the private T25 schools that accept the most number of TO students - of any background, are:

WashU
Vanderbilt
Cornell

And further down:
Wake
Tulane

This list is a few short:


WashU
Vanderbilt
Cornell
UChicago
USC

And further down:
Wake
TulanE
Northeastern

Hope this will be helpful to others next year. Especially those with higher GPA than test scores.

Private college counselors keep this type of data close to the vest, but it’s actually really easy to find if you look at the schools CDS.

Add:
Swarthmore
Amherst
Williams
Carnegie Mellon

Next tier:
SMU
BU
Villanova
Tufts
Pepperdine

Which schools are the reverse? Take kids with “lower” gpas (think 3.6 unweighted) who have rigor (like 12 AP type) and high scores like 99 percentile? How to find this info out?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I agree with the TO sentiment but for the privileged but not hooked (i.e. high HHI, highly resourced school, what most of the DMV students who apply to these T20 students fit into) I get the vibe you are expected to submit 50th percentile+ testing to support your worth versus your peers. The score creep is astounding even at the not T20 schools -- middle 50th percentile range at BC is now 1420 - 1530.

But the AO at BC for example would know of the creep, yes? So you think they just act as if that hasn’t happened due to so many not submitting at all?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For the last time, the private T25 schools that accept the most number of TO students - of any background, are:

WashU
Vanderbilt
Cornell

And further down:
Wake
Tulane

This list is a few short:


WashU
Vanderbilt
Cornell
UChicago
USC

And further down:
Wake
TulanE
Northeastern

Hope this will be helpful to others next year. Especially those with higher GPA than test scores.

Private college counselors keep this type of data close to the vest, but it’s actually really easy to find if you look at the schools CDS.

Add:
Swarthmore
Amherst
Williams
Carnegie Mellon

Next tier:
SMU
BU
Villanova
Tufts
Pepperdine

Which schools are the reverse? Take kids with “lower” gpas (think 3.6 unweighted) who have rigor (like 12 AP type) and high scores like 99 percentile? How to find this info out?

That information is not out there.
And sadly, those are the hardest kids to place.
You need some sort of distinguishing or pointy characteristic.

[Anonymous]

our high school counselor was iffy on DS sending 1530 to top 8 (ish) schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes. It’s seems to be everywhere. So much for test optional. From those schools that provide information, there seems to be a slight bias in favor of kids who submit scores, especially higher scores. I got this info from the Paying for College 101 lady’s presentation.

It's only TO for certain groups. For other groups, if you don't submit, they will assume the score was low.

I used to think that, too, but keep hearing stories about rich kids in rich neighborhoods in “rigorous” (IB and/or lots of APs) programs getting into great schools without submitting scores. Meaning, kids with many advantages who do well in hard programs and therefore “should” have high test scores are applying TO and it doesn’t seem to matter.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For the last time, the private T25 schools that accept the most number of TO students - of any background, are:

WashU
Vanderbilt
Cornell

And further down:
Wake
Tulane

This list is a few short:


WashU
Vanderbilt
Cornell
UChicago
USC

And further down:
Wake
TulanE
Northeastern

Hope this will be helpful to others next year. Especially those with higher GPA than test scores.

Private college counselors keep this type of data close to the vest, but it’s actually really easy to find if you look at the schools CDS.

Add:
Swarthmore
Amherst
Williams
Carnegie Mellon

Next tier:
SMU
BU
Villanova
Tufts
Pepperdine

Which schools are the reverse? Take kids with “lower” gpas (think 3.6 unweighted) who have rigor (like 12 AP type) and high scores like 99 percentile? How to find this info out?

Maybe look for average GPA in the Common Data Set? Not all colleges post it.

The pendulum had swung very far in favor of GPA, but it may be coming back to center. I think policies are in flux at the moment. Test optional applicants should be affirmatively assumed to have a low score rather than a mere missing data point, though it's hard to know which schools operate this way in application review.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For the last time, the private T25 schools that accept the most number of TO students - of any background, are:

WashU
Vanderbilt
Cornell

And further down:
Wake
Tulane

This list is a few short:


WashU
Vanderbilt
Cornell
UChicago
USC

And further down:
Wake
TulanE
Northeastern

Hope this will be helpful to others next year. Especially those with higher GPA than test scores.

Private college counselors keep this type of data close to the vest, but it’s actually really easy to find if you look at the schools CDS.

Add:
Swarthmore
Amherst
Williams
Carnegie Mellon

Next tier:
SMU
BU
Villanova
Tufts
Pepperdine

Which schools are the reverse? Take kids with “lower” gpas (think 3.6 unweighted) who have rigor (like 12 AP type) and high scores like 99 percentile? How to find this info out?

Yes, this is what I suspect a lot of parents and students want to know.

These are the students whose extremely high test scores were more than sufficient to offset their non-extremely high GPAs in the past.

Now, it's apparently acceptable at Top 25 colleges and universities to have a 4.00 UGPA with 7 AP classes (mixture of 3s, 4s, and 5s on tests) and submit test optional, but not OK at these same institutions to have a 3.6 with 14 AP (mixture of 4s and 5s, or all 5s, on tests) and a 1600 on the SAT. What a bizarre system we're working with today ...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For the last time, the private T25 schools that accept the most number of TO students - of any background, are:

WashU
Vanderbilt
Cornell

And further down:
Wake
Tulane

This list is a few short:


WashU
Vanderbilt
Cornell
UChicago
USC

And further down:
Wake
TulanE
Northeastern

Hope this will be helpful to others next year. Especially those with higher GPA than test scores.

Private college counselors keep this type of data close to the vest, but it’s actually really easy to find if you look at the schools CDS.

Add:
Swarthmore
Amherst
Williams
Carnegie Mellon

Next tier:
SMU
BU
Villanova
Tufts
Pepperdine

Which schools are the reverse? Take kids with “lower” gpas (think 3.6 unweighted) who have rigor (like 12 AP type) and high scores like 99 percentile? How to find this info out?

That is not as bad a profile as you are feeling right now. For my kid (applied CS), national schools from 30 down (was told only if ED, but didn't want to ED; so, WL, then offer, for mid 30s to 50; admitted with merit for those in 50s and below - chose one of those and is crazy happy there and doing great). The SLAC schools were basically the same, if ED, then 15 and down are in play, but tough, 30 and down are good to go. I should add that this kid did not apply to any big schools or state schools, so can't help you there. Don't take the numbers as literally as that, it's just that that's where the schools were that were in play (meaning, he obviously didn't apply to all of them). In there end there were nine good options, including some that would probably surprise people on here.