ECNL moving to school year not calendar

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Mlsn isn’t changing 26/27. They won’t feel the effects until tryouts 27/28 imo. 26/27 they’re still recruiting from by rosters. As the years progress the by kid will be lower in the totem pole on the rosters they recruit from. I can see them changing 1 or 2 years after. They cant remain the top boys league while recruiting that 5th and under best kid on their ulittle teams.

And no they won’t just bioband every q4

The effects of what?

I’m a SY proponent. And also totally OK with MLSN and GA staying BY. Who cares?! But what are these magical “effects”?

ECNL girls is dominant. ECNL boys isn’t. On the boys side this is like ECNL not liking the way the teams were picked, and leaving the playground to go play with the little kids. What is MORE likely in that scenario is ECNL losing kids that want to keep playing on the playground. What is unlikely is the kids on the other team agreeing, and quiting their “unfairly stacked” team, and going to play with the little kids with ECNL.

The effect of Rae

Indisputable that the current top rosters skew q1 and q2, even more so with the ulittles. Think we can all agree the change to school year is going to flip to 8-12 for the ulittles.

And if there’s one thing that’s certain, the majority of parents are going to do whatever they can for any advantage

Exactly if you think the 2nd and 3rd teams at ulittle ages are getting the same quality of training as the 1st teams then sure there will be no issues. For a year or two not aligning will have little impact. After that it will matter.

So youre saying that the top teams control who plays and for everyone else it doesnt matter.

Isn't this exactly what MLSN is already doing?

If MLS club tournaments stay BY and they dont participate in ECNL tournaments. Wouldn't ECNL be forced to play up against players 6 months older in MLS tournamants?

No I'm saying at ulittle ages clubs give the top teams better coaches more practices ect. That adds up over time. If the ulittle leagues are going to start favoring Q4's they are going to be the majority of the more developed players. Sure if you have money and pay for all the extras and accept a lower ulittle team you can make it through. But the majority of top team ulittle teams are going to become Q4 and Q1 instead of the current Q1 and Q2 make up today. Unless our culture changes to treat all u littles equally or the ulittle leagues become even more fractured with different age cutoffs the effects will matter.

OK I hear what you're saying but what I said still applies. The top clubs are BY this means if they stay BY the SY clubs will have to play at a 6 month disadvantage when participating in BY club tournaments.

You have it backwards. Mlsn will have to play up in tournament play

And the top clubs are not staying by, everyone but mlsn is going sy.

If a BY club hosts a BY tournament please explain to me which age grouping SY clubs will register in?

I'll talk you through it.

2010 BY means 1/1 cutoff. The only SY team that will be able to play in this level will be a 2011 SY team with an 8/1 cutoff. See how it works? The 2011 SY can bring older players 1/1 - 8/1 but these will be from the SY 2010 team. Which for most clubs will be too much of a PITA so only the SY 2011s will be playing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Mlsn isn’t changing 26/27. They won’t feel the effects until tryouts 27/28 imo. 26/27 they’re still recruiting from by rosters. As the years progress the by kid will be lower in the totem pole on the rosters they recruit from. I can see them changing 1 or 2 years after. They cant remain the top boys league while recruiting that 5th and under best kid on their ulittle teams.

And no they won’t just bioband every q4

The effects of what?

I’m a SY proponent. And also totally OK with MLSN and GA staying BY. Who cares?! But what are these magical “effects”?

ECNL girls is dominant. ECNL boys isn’t. On the boys side this is like ECNL not liking the way the teams were picked, and leaving the playground to go play with the little kids. What is MORE likely in that scenario is ECNL losing kids that want to keep playing on the playground. What is unlikely is the kids on the other team agreeing, and quiting their “unfairly stacked” team, and going to play with the little kids with ECNL.

The effect of Rae

Indisputable that the current top rosters skew q1 and q2, even more so with the ulittles. Think we can all agree the change to school year is going to flip to 8-12 for the ulittles.

And if there’s one thing that’s certain, the majority of parents are going to do whatever they can for any advantage

Exactly if you think the 2nd and 3rd teams at ulittle ages are getting the same quality of training as the 1st teams then sure there will be no issues. For a year or two not aligning will have little impact. After that it will matter.

So youre saying that the top teams control who plays and for everyone else it doesnt matter.

Isn't this exactly what MLSN is already doing?

If MLS club tournaments stay BY and they dont participate in ECNL tournaments. Wouldn't ECNL be forced to play up against players 6 months older in MLS tournamants?

No I'm saying at ulittle ages clubs give the top teams better coaches more practices ect. That adds up over time. If the ulittle leagues are going to start favoring Q4's they are going to be the majority of the more developed players. Sure if you have money and pay for all the extras and accept a lower ulittle team you can make it through. But the majority of top team ulittle teams are going to become Q4 and Q1 instead of the current Q1 and Q2 make up today. Unless our culture changes to treat all u littles equally or the ulittle leagues become even more fractured with different age cutoffs the effects will matter.

OK I hear what you're saying but what I said still applies. The top clubs are BY this means if they stay BY the SY clubs will have to play at a 6 month disadvantage when participating in BY club tournaments.

You have it backwards. Mlsn will have to play up in tournament play

And the top clubs are not staying by, everyone but mlsn is going sy.

If a BY club hosts a BY tournament please explain to me which age grouping SY clubs will register in?

I'll talk you through it.

2010 BY means 1/1 cutoff. The only SY team that will be able to play in this level will be a 2011 SY team with an 8/1 cutoff. See how it works? The 2011 SY can bring older players 1/1 - 8/1 but these will be from the SY 2010 team. Which for most clubs will be too much of a PITA so only the SY 2011s will be playing.

For the boys what this means is as long as MLSN Acadamies have a connection to MLS teams they'll have an advantage staying BY. MLSN can even say that they invite ECNL to their events but they either never show up or lose. (Carefully omitting that ECNL teams are giving up 6 months of development because of SY groupings.)

If GA connected with NWSL and stayed BY they'd have the same 6 month advantage at BY events over ECNL clubs.

On the other side of the coin if MLSN + GA stayed BY what would happen is neither would play in SY (ECNL) tournaments because they'd be giving uo 6 months of development.

[Anonymous]

Still trying to get my arms around the original rationale for USA to go BY in the first place. Is it simply because of that 6 month benefit at U17/U19? Which, according to most, RAE goes away by then. Except for Gadwell Canadian hockey dynamic, which is a coaching and discovery issue, not a birth date issue.

If going back to SY increases the pool it probably cancels itself out, right?

Again, most pro/elite level players are playing up to begin with so just don’t see the issue. Get participation up and eliminate trapped issues seems like a win/win unless you are Q1 bubble player.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Mlsn isn’t changing 26/27. They won’t feel the effects until tryouts 27/28 imo. 26/27 they’re still recruiting from by rosters. As the years progress the by kid will be lower in the totem pole on the rosters they recruit from. I can see them changing 1 or 2 years after. They cant remain the top boys league while recruiting that 5th and under best kid on their ulittle teams.

And no they won’t just bioband every q4

The effects of what?

I’m a SY proponent. And also totally OK with MLSN and GA staying BY. Who cares?! But what are these magical “effects”?

ECNL girls is dominant. ECNL boys isn’t. On the boys side this is like ECNL not liking the way the teams were picked, and leaving the playground to go play with the little kids. What is MORE likely in that scenario is ECNL losing kids that want to keep playing on the playground. What is unlikely is the kids on the other team agreeing, and quiting their “unfairly stacked” team, and going to play with the little kids with ECNL.

The effect of Rae

Indisputable that the current top rosters skew q1 and q2, even more so with the ulittles. Think we can all agree the change to school year is going to flip to 8-12 for the ulittles.

And if there’s one thing that’s certain, the majority of parents are going to do whatever they can for any advantage

Exactly if you think the 2nd and 3rd teams at ulittle ages are getting the same quality of training as the 1st teams then sure there will be no issues. For a year or two not aligning will have little impact. After that it will matter.

So youre saying that the top teams control who plays and for everyone else it doesnt matter.

Isn't this exactly what MLSN is already doing?

If MLS club tournaments stay BY and they dont participate in ECNL tournaments. Wouldn't ECNL be forced to play up against players 6 months older in MLS tournamants?

No I'm saying at ulittle ages clubs give the top teams better coaches more practices ect. That adds up over time. If the ulittle leagues are going to start favoring Q4's they are going to be the majority of the more developed players. Sure if you have money and pay for all the extras and accept a lower ulittle team you can make it through. But the majority of top team ulittle teams are going to become Q4 and Q1 instead of the current Q1 and Q2 make up today. Unless our culture changes to treat all u littles equally or the ulittle leagues become even more fractured with different age cutoffs the effects will matter.

OK I hear what you're saying but what I said still applies. The top clubs are BY this means if they stay BY the SY clubs will have to play at a 6 month disadvantage when participating in BY club tournaments.

You have it backwards. Mlsn will have to play up in tournament play

And the top clubs are not staying by, everyone but mlsn is going sy.

If a BY club hosts a BY tournament please explain to me which age grouping SY clubs will register in?

I'll talk you through it.

2010 BY means 1/1 cutoff. The only SY team that will be able to play in this level will be a 2011 SY team with an 8/1 cutoff. See how it works? The 2011 SY can bring older players 1/1 - 8/1 but these will be from the SY 2010 team. Which for most clubs will be too much of a PITA so only the SY 2011s will be playing.

For the boys what this means is as long as MLSN Acadamies have a connection to MLS teams they'll have an advantage staying BY. MLSN can even say that they invite ECNL to their events but they either never show up or lose. (Carefully omitting that ECNL teams are giving up 6 months of development because of SY groupings.)

If GA connected with NWSL and stayed BY they'd have the same 6 month advantage at BY events over ECNL clubs.

On the other side of the coin if MLSN + GA stayed BY what would happen is neither would play in SY (ECNL) tournaments because they'd be giving uo 6 months of development.

I understand what you’re saying but what youre missing is that there are not any by clubs. They’re SY clubs with a handful of by teams playing mlsn. Doing you really think a club like Albion is going to do by tournaments while 95 percent of the teams there are SY?

The big interplay tournaments in SoCal are going to be sy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Mlsn isn’t changing 26/27. They won’t feel the effects until tryouts 27/28 imo. 26/27 they’re still recruiting from by rosters. As the years progress the by kid will be lower in the totem pole on the rosters they recruit from. I can see them changing 1 or 2 years after. They cant remain the top boys league while recruiting that 5th and under best kid on their ulittle teams.

And no they won’t just bioband every q4

The effects of what?

I’m a SY proponent. And also totally OK with MLSN and GA staying BY. Who cares?! But what are these magical “effects”?

ECNL girls is dominant. ECNL boys isn’t. On the boys side this is like ECNL not liking the way the teams were picked, and leaving the playground to go play with the little kids. What is MORE likely in that scenario is ECNL losing kids that want to keep playing on the playground. What is unlikely is the kids on the other team agreeing, and quiting their “unfairly stacked” team, and going to play with the little kids with ECNL.

The effect of Rae

Indisputable that the current top rosters skew q1 and q2, even more so with the ulittles. Think we can all agree the change to school year is going to flip to 8-12 for the ulittles.

And if there’s one thing that’s certain, the majority of parents are going to do whatever they can for any advantage

Exactly if you think the 2nd and 3rd teams at ulittle ages are getting the same quality of training as the 1st teams then sure there will be no issues. For a year or two not aligning will have little impact. After that it will matter.

So youre saying that the top teams control who plays and for everyone else it doesnt matter.

Isn't this exactly what MLSN is already doing?

If MLS club tournaments stay BY and they dont participate in ECNL tournaments. Wouldn't ECNL be forced to play up against players 6 months older in MLS tournamants?

No I'm saying at ulittle ages clubs give the top teams better coaches more practices ect. That adds up over time. If the ulittle leagues are going to start favoring Q4's they are going to be the majority of the more developed players. Sure if you have money and pay for all the extras and accept a lower ulittle team you can make it through. But the majority of top team ulittle teams are going to become Q4 and Q1 instead of the current Q1 and Q2 make up today. Unless our culture changes to treat all u littles equally or the ulittle leagues become even more fractured with different age cutoffs the effects will matter.

OK I hear what you're saying but what I said still applies. The top clubs are BY this means if they stay BY the SY clubs will have to play at a 6 month disadvantage when participating in BY club tournaments.

You have it backwards. Mlsn will have to play up in tournament play

And the top clubs are not staying by, everyone but mlsn is going sy.

If a BY club hosts a BY tournament please explain to me which age grouping SY clubs will register in?

I'll talk you through it.

2010 BY means 1/1 cutoff. The only SY team that will be able to play in this level will be a 2011 SY team with an 8/1 cutoff. See how it works? The 2011 SY can bring older players 1/1 - 8/1 but these will be from the SY 2010 team. Which for most clubs will be too much of a PITA so only the SY 2011s will be playing.

For the boys what this means is as long as MLSN Acadamies have a connection to MLS teams they'll have an advantage staying BY. MLSN can even say that they invite ECNL to their events but they either never show up or lose. (Carefully omitting that ECNL teams are giving up 6 months of development because of SY groupings.)

If GA connected with NWSL and stayed BY they'd have the same 6 month advantage at BY events over ECNL clubs.

On the other side of the coin if MLSN + GA stayed BY what would happen is neither would play in SY (ECNL) tournaments because they'd be giving uo 6 months of development.

I understand what you’re saying but what youre missing is that there are not any by clubs. They’re SY clubs with a handful of by teams playing mlsn. Doing you really think a club like Albion is going to do by tournaments while 95 percent of the teams there are SY?

The big interplay tournaments in SoCal are going to be sy.

What clubs like Albion will do is just not participate in SY tournaments. They'll host BY tournaments (inviting SY clubs) and only BY teams (mostly) will attend.

MLSN BY teams will stay at the top of the ratings because they have all the best players and only play each other.

If theres a BY/SY split the rankings app guy will likely need to break them out into different views. This would make ECNL boys teams look good because they'd be the top SY teams and MLSN would dominate the BY grouping.

[Anonymous]

Not sure when it will be announced but starting in January ECNL will allow clubs ti reshuffle rosters and allow 4 Aug to Dec players to join the team for league play, showcases, and nationals.

I was told they are considering a late fall press release but no exact date has been decided.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Not sure when it will be announced but starting in January ECNL will allow clubs ti reshuffle rosters and allow 4 Aug to Dec players to join the team for league play, showcases, and nationals.

I was told they are considering a late fall press release but no exact date has been decided.

So basically you know nothing and are wish-casting what you want to happen.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Mlsn isn’t changing 26/27. They won’t feel the effects until tryouts 27/28 imo. 26/27 they’re still recruiting from by rosters. As the years progress the by kid will be lower in the totem pole on the rosters they recruit from. I can see them changing 1 or 2 years after. They cant remain the top boys league while recruiting that 5th and under best kid on their ulittle teams.

And no they won’t just bioband every q4

The effects of what?

I’m a SY proponent. And also totally OK with MLSN and GA staying BY. Who cares?! But what are these magical “effects”?

ECNL girls is dominant. ECNL boys isn’t. On the boys side this is like ECNL not liking the way the teams were picked, and leaving the playground to go play with the little kids. What is MORE likely in that scenario is ECNL losing kids that want to keep playing on the playground. What is unlikely is the kids on the other team agreeing, and quiting their “unfairly stacked” team, and going to play with the little kids with ECNL.

The effect of Rae

Indisputable that the current top rosters skew q1 and q2, even more so with the ulittles. Think we can all agree the change to school year is going to flip to 8-12 for the ulittles.

And if there’s one thing that’s certain, the majority of parents are going to do whatever they can for any advantage

Exactly if you think the 2nd and 3rd teams at ulittle ages are getting the same quality of training as the 1st teams then sure there will be no issues. For a year or two not aligning will have little impact. After that it will matter.

So youre saying that the top teams control who plays and for everyone else it doesnt matter.

Isn't this exactly what MLSN is already doing?

If MLS club tournaments stay BY and they dont participate in ECNL tournaments. Wouldn't ECNL be forced to play up against players 6 months older in MLS tournamants?

No I'm saying at ulittle ages clubs give the top teams better coaches more practices ect. That adds up over time. If the ulittle leagues are going to start favoring Q4's they are going to be the majority of the more developed players. Sure if you have money and pay for all the extras and accept a lower ulittle team you can make it through. But the majority of top team ulittle teams are going to become Q4 and Q1 instead of the current Q1 and Q2 make up today. Unless our culture changes to treat all u littles equally or the ulittle leagues become even more fractured with different age cutoffs the effects will matter.

OK I hear what you're saying but what I said still applies. The top clubs are BY this means if they stay BY the SY clubs will have to play at a 6 month disadvantage when participating in BY club tournaments.

You have it backwards. Mlsn will have to play up in tournament play

And the top clubs are not staying by, everyone but mlsn is going sy.

If a BY club hosts a BY tournament please explain to me which age grouping SY clubs will register in?

I'll talk you through it.

2010 BY means 1/1 cutoff. The only SY team that will be able to play in this level will be a 2011 SY team with an 8/1 cutoff. See how it works? The 2011 SY can bring older players 1/1 - 8/1 but these will be from the SY 2010 team. Which for most clubs will be too much of a PITA so only the SY 2011s will be playing.

For the boys what this means is as long as MLSN Acadamies have a connection to MLS teams they'll have an advantage staying BY. MLSN can even say that they invite ECNL to their events but they either never show up or lose. (Carefully omitting that ECNL teams are giving up 6 months of development because of SY groupings.)

If GA connected with NWSL and stayed BY they'd have the same 6 month advantage at BY events over ECNL clubs.

On the other side of the coin if MLSN + GA stayed BY what would happen is neither would play in SY (ECNL) tournaments because they'd be giving uo 6 months of development.

I understand what you’re saying but what youre missing is that there are not any by clubs. They’re SY clubs with a handful of by teams playing mlsn. Doing you really think a club like Albion is going to do by tournaments while 95 percent of the teams there are SY?

The big interplay tournaments in SoCal are going to be sy.

What clubs like Albion will do is just not participate in SY tournaments. They'll host BY tournaments (inviting SY clubs) and only BY teams (mostly) will attend.

MLSN BY teams will stay at the top of the ratings because they have all the best players and only play each other.

If theres a BY/SY split the rankings app guy will likely need to break them out into different views. This would make ECNL boys teams look good because they'd be the top SY teams and MLSN would dominate the BY grouping.

So what your saying is the cater to their 5 by teams and cut their tournament revenue by 80%?

[Anonymous]

So in clubs where the top team is one MLSN2 team and the rest of their levels are definitely switching to SY, that club will lose any kid that doesn't make the top team to a different club, especially if they are Q3/Q4. At the MLSN2 club, the best players from the year below (aka SY peers) would be on MLSN2 birth year down, so those kids would essentially be dropping two levels of play. (Unless they bioband.)

[Anonymous]

They will lose their better Q3/Q4 kids who might be getting less optimal playing time/positions just because of RAE. It comes full circle....

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Still trying to get my arms around the original rationale for USA to go BY in the first place. Is it simply because of that 6 month benefit at U17/U19? Which, according to most, RAE goes away by then. Except for Gadwell Canadian hockey dynamic, which is a coaching and discovery issue, not a birth date issue.

If going back to SY increases the pool it probably cancels itself out, right?

Again, most pro/elite level players are playing up to begin with so just don’t see the issue. Get participation up and eliminate trapped issues seems like a win/win unless you are Q1 bubble player.

You need to go back several hundred pages. There are many reasons, but you're missing one of the biggest ones - trapped years/recruiting years being off sync with teams composed of multiple grade years (eg 8th graders and sophs/juniors - mostly on the girls side).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Still trying to get my arms around the original rationale for USA to go BY in the first place. Is it simply because of that 6 month benefit at U17/U19? Which, according to most, RAE goes away by then. Except for Gadwell Canadian hockey dynamic, which is a coaching and discovery issue, not a birth date issue.

If going back to SY increases the pool it probably cancels itself out, right?

Again, most pro/elite level players are playing up to begin with so just don’t see the issue. Get participation up and eliminate trapped issues seems like a win/win unless you are Q1 bubble player.

You need to go back several hundred pages. There are many reasons, but you're missing one of the biggest ones - trapped years/recruiting years being off sync with teams composed of multiple grade years (eg 8th graders and sophs/juniors - mostly on the girls side).

my bad - ignore what i said and i'm dumb for not reading your full post!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So in clubs where the top team is one MLSN2 team and the rest of their levels are definitely switching to SY, that club will lose any kid that doesn't make the top team to a different club, especially if they are Q3/Q4. At the MLSN2 club, the best players from the year below (aka SY peers) would be on MLSN2 birth year down, so those kids would essentially be dropping two levels of play. (Unless they bioband.)

Maybe, maybe not.

As highlighted MLSN doesnt need to switch to SY. It does make sense for MLSN2 to switch to SY if theyre going to allow playing in HS. But this is all rumors. Likely made up by ECNL parents.

[Anonymous]

Notice how the ECNL hat in this thread isnt getting the feedback that he wanted. So he created a new thread highlighting his boner for ECNL called "US Youth Soccer Pyramid"?

This is why people dont like ECNL.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Notice how the ECNL hat in this thread isnt getting the feedback that he wanted. So he created a new thread highlighting his boner for ECNL called "US Youth Soccer Pyramid"?

This is why people dont like ECNL.

Do people like GA?