That Brock Allen Turner is a dirtbag

[Anonymous]

It is the very short time frame - the time in between them walking behind those dumpsters, starting to fool around and her passing out and the swedes coming along, roughly 7 minutes - that makes it unclear to me who did what to whom when. The swedes say that they saw him dry humping her, not fingering her. What does that mean? I don't know. But it stands to reason that if she was stupidly and very drunkenly on board going behind those dumpsters and then passing out in the middle of it that she could have appeared willing to be fingered to Brock.

Neither one of them had any business going behind those dumpsters together. It was wrong of them both to go back there - she had no business kissing that drunk teenager and he had no business humping her when she passed out. I am not excusing what Brock did. But I am not about to give the green light to this woman for her appalling behavior, either. It is not right to blame the victim or shame her for being sexually assaulted. But we can most certainly call her out for her own extremely bad behavior.

She describes her decision to go to that "dumb" party as a silly, goofy thing to do. Having 4 shots of whiskey and drinking cups of vodka until you are practically comatose is not funny. And it is not up to to a room full of drunk (yet still functional) younger kids to watch out for your drunk azz and make sure that you are making good decisions for yourself. She does not seem to get that. And people seem to be giving her a pass for that.

I have not heard the drunken messages that she left but I can say that I have seen people who wouldn't have been able to even dial their phones much less leave a message - dancing and kissing.

You are an ass. Just stop.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why is everyone acting like the victim was some old lady adult and the predator was a little boy? He was a MAN at age 19 and she was 23. BOTH young adults.

He was a freshman who had been at school 4 months, she had already been to college and graduated. Not a little boy and an old lady, but still words apart in life experiences.

Think back to when you were a year out of college, working, with a steady SO. A college freshmen was so young, in comparison.

Not that big a difference. And totally irrelevant to the case.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why is everyone acting like the victim was some old lady adult and the predator was a little boy? He was a MAN at age 19 and she was 23. BOTH young adults.

He was a freshman who had been at school 4 months, she had already been to college and graduated. Not a little boy and an old lady, but still words apart in life experiences.

Think back to when you were a year out of college, working, with a steady SO. A college freshmen was so young, in comparison.

Not that big a difference. And totally irrelevant to the case.

Irrelevant to the case, yes. But we're not jurors, just people trying to understand what happened that night. No, the age difference doesn't affect the crime he committed. It's noticeable, that's all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why is everyone acting like the victim was some old lady adult and the predator was a little boy? He was a MAN at age 19 and she was 23. BOTH young adults.

He wasn't a year out of HS when this happened. She had 4 years of college under her belt, a full time job and a steady boyfriend and had been to these parties many, many times. And had the tolerance to prove it.

I do not think that unaffiliated college grads should be going to these college specific parties. A college bar is one thing - there are a variety of ages there. But going to a college specific party where you joke that you will be the oldest one there and then proceeding to get drunk out of your mind around young kids who do not know you - that is wrong. And it puts you into creepy territory. Sorry - not a cougar. Creepy.

If a male college grad had gotten severely plastered and led a somewhat drunken freshman girl behind that dumpster and things happened that he was not completely aware of and he passed out half naked in the act and would not wake up - no one would feel sorry for him. In fact, people would be disgusted by the grossness of his behavior.

[Anonymous]

I don't think it was a party meant just for college freshman, so there would have also been college students of all years, including seniors who could easily be 22-23 years old, so this young woman was not very different in age from many of those at the party. It's not that unusual for college students to be 22 or 23.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why is everyone acting like the victim was some old lady adult and the predator was a little boy? He was a MAN at age 19 and she was 23. BOTH young adults.

He wasn't a year out of HS when this happened. She had 4 years of college under her belt, a full time job and a steady boyfriend and had been to these parties many, many times. And had the tolerance to prove it.

I do not think that unaffiliated college grads should be going to these college specific parties. A college bar is one thing - there are a variety of ages there. But going to a college specific party where you joke that you will be the oldest one there and then proceeding to get drunk out of your mind around young kids who do not know you - that is wrong. And it puts you into creepy territory. Sorry - not a cougar. Creepy.

If a male college grad had gotten severely plastered and led a somewhat drunken freshman girl behind that dumpster and things happened that he was not completely aware of and he passed out half naked in the act and would not wake up - no one would feel sorry for him. In fact, people would be disgusted by the grossness of his behavior.

Of the two involved: Brock had actually been banned from a party previously due to his predatory behavior. Emily-never banned.
Brock-convicted of attempted rape by a jury of his peers--mostly men.
Emily-totally innocent of any wrong doing.
You can slice it /dice it any way you want, but there is only one person at fault.

Which isn't to say that I haven't counseled my own college age daughter to always be cautious at campus parties, don't drink excessively, be wary of drunk men. There are some precautions you can take, but not everyone is going to follow that advice all the time. So maybe Ms. Doe made a mistake by drinking so much, but she did not commit a crime, Brock did. He is the convicted felon, sex offender for life, which is as it should be. She is the innocent victim, whether you like it or not

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don't think it was a party meant just for college freshman, so there would have also been college students of all years, including seniors who could easily be 22-23 years old, so this young woman was not very different in age from many of those at the party. It's not that unusual for college students to be 22 or 23.

Yes - upperclassmen, grad students, recent Stanford grads. People with legitimate ties to the school. Not random older office workers. At the very least Emily should have been coming and going with her sister who did have ties to the school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't think it was a party meant just for college freshman, so there would have also been college students of all years, including seniors who could easily be 22-23 years old, so this young woman was not very different in age from many of those at the party. It's not that unusual for college students to be 22 or 23.

Yes - upperclassmen, grad students, recent Stanford grads. People with legitimate ties to the school. Not random older office workers. At the very least Emily should have been coming and going with her sister who did have ties to the school.

God you're an idiot.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't think it was a party meant just for college freshman, so there would have also been college students of all years, including seniors who could easily be 22-23 years old, so this young woman was not very different in age from many of those at the party. It's not that unusual for college students to be 22 or 23.

Yes - upperclassmen, grad students, recent Stanford grads. People with legitimate ties to the school. Not random older office workers. At the very least Emily should have been coming and going with her sister who did have ties to the school.

God you're an idiot.

Actually I have a point. The very reason that these parties tend to be safer than bars is because the people going in and out of them are a more exclusive group. They are people with ties to the university, they know and recognize each other - if they get out of line they can face discipline and even get kicked out of school.

If I just walk in off the street to a fraternity party at Random University and proceed to help myself to their free alcohol (and undergrads) until I am black out drunk and proceed to stumble around doing stuff until I pass out in a drunken stupor and an ambulance has to be called to take my drunken behind to the hospital. Random University and the fraternity where my heavy out of control drinking happened is left to deal with the fallout. There is nothing they can do to me. I'll just wake up feeling like crap in the morning and go back to my life. Maybe next weekend I'll go to The Other University frat party and do the same thing there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't think it was a party meant just for college freshman, so there would have also been college students of all years, including seniors who could easily be 22-23 years old, so this young woman was not very different in age from many of those at the party. It's not that unusual for college students to be 22 or 23.

Yes - upperclassmen, grad students, recent Stanford grads. People with legitimate ties to the school. Not random older office workers. At the very least Emily should have been coming and going with her sister who did have ties to the school.

God you're an idiot.

Actually I have a point. The very reason that these parties tend to be safer than bars is because the people going in and out of them are a more exclusive group. They are people with ties to the university, they know and recognize each other - if they get out of line they can face discipline and even get kicked out of school.

If I just walk in off the street to a fraternity party at Random University and proceed to help myself to their free alcohol (and undergrads) until I am black out drunk and proceed to stumble around doing stuff until I pass out in a drunken stupor and an ambulance has to be called to take my drunken behind to the hospital. Random University and the fraternity where my heavy out of control drinking happened is left to deal with the fallout. There is nothing they can do to me. I'll just wake up feeling like crap in the morning and go back to my life. Maybe next weekend I'll go to The Other University frat party and do the same thing there.

Um, she went with her sister. So, no, you don't don't have a point.

[Anonymous]

read this comment today elsewhere and agree 100%:

"Turner's action was criminal & terrible. His father makes idiotic statements to the press.

The victim had a horrible experience and according to her letter, she doesn't remember the actual rape due to her state of self-administered excess alcohol consumption. That's lucky for her. I do not believe the melodramatic & emotional outpouring in her 12 page letter was achieved without assistance from her therapist, attorney, ghost writer or p.r. representative. She will eventually recover, if she chooses to do so. I hope she chooses to.

I am female. I was violently raped on a downtown Palo Alto sidewalk when I was 26. Since I was fully conscious & had consumed no alcohol, I do remember my experience. I was walking from a movie theater to my car, a couple of blocks away at 10pm. I hadn't gone to a fraternity party to "visit with my sister"(?) & drink in a noisy environment where excessive drinking is widely known to occur & lots of the "men" are under age.

I do not blame the victim. I do caution women to consider honestly why they choose to go to fraternity parties. It is unlikely to be because they want to enjoy conversation with & company of other women. I caution adult women to avoid the company of drunk teenagers. I caution women not to walk alone at night even if it's pretty early & only a couple of blocks to the car.

I recovered. My scrapes, bruises & torn fingernails healed. My attacker was never caught, although since he also took my wallet & got my driving license, he did phone me later to tell me how much he "enjoyed meeting me" and wanted "to do it again." I feel no guilt or shame, as I did nothing wrong.

Rape is a terrible crime. Perpetrators should be punished & victims should be supported. I'd have more respect for Emily Doe if she'd indicated positive steps she's taking to heal instead of publicly wallowing in her ongoing suffering with 12 pages of o.t.t. soul-baring. Yes, she can be the poster woman for rape victims when she chooses to identify herself & she publishes her book, for which her letter is the preface."

[Anonymous]

How do all you "he didn't rape her" people rationalize that he took pictures of her breasts and texted them to his friends during the assaukt?

[Anonymous]

How do all you "he didn't rape her" people rationalize that he took pictures of her breasts and texted them to his friends during the assaukt?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why is everyone acting like the victim was some old lady adult and the predator was a little boy? He was a MAN at age 19 and she was 23. BOTH young adults.

Yes, It is another disgusting attempt to blame the victim. Calling him a "teenager" to make him seem less culpable for his actions or was lured by this "older" woman. It's bullshit.
So horrified by the people defending him or blaming the victim.

It is seriously so gross. He could have still been IN high school, and would still be a rapist. It's old enough by far to know those actions are wrong. And honestly it's not at all out of the norm for young adults a year or two out of college to continue partying with college students if they still live in the same town. There was lots of this when I was in college, not unusual at all, at frat or other parties.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:How do all you "he didn't rape her" people rationalize that he took pictures of her breasts and texted them to his friends during the assaukt?

1) he wasn't convicted of rape
2) there was no evidence that brock took said picture and no evidence of the picture itself