ECNL moving to school year not calendar

[Anonymous]

All this begs the question, is staying BY for MLSN/GA worth all the trouble and potential downsides?

[Anonymous]

GA will not stay BY.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is extremely weird to call Tier 2 “academy” when they revolve their season around HS soccer. Such an obvious marketing gimmick. Do they think parents are that stupid? Oh right, they are.

Extremely weird? It’s actually pretty normal in youth sports. “Academy” used to mean something specific. Now it just tantamount to “program.” It’s marketing at this point.

Substituting the ever-so-prominent “MLS Academy” name, that so many Dads on here drool over, and imparting it to their second tier league, is weird yes. In fact it is blatantly deceitful because it used to be the pinnacle of what parents could tell others and now it means the opposite. It also forces those same dips*!t parents to say homegrown which is in and of itself self a weird name .

It's going to be really interesting if MLSN/GA stays BY.

True. Would be a very strange business decision on their part but could be the best thing for p2p honestly as it gives true space for an SY league like ECNL . But from a national standpoint, I think it hampers developing and determining the best players as the two leagues would play each other almost never.

I think it's strange people don't understand why they would and who believe SY is the end all be all.

Not a BY-Stan, but this is 100% spot on. The reasons to not change are glaringly clear.

I think the denial is likely from girls’ parents, and is a response to the obvious risk ECNL is taking in an ALMOST all or nothing gamble to make its boys side competitive with the talent draw of MLSN.

If MLSN switches, it would force GA to also switch, which gives relief to the ECNL girls’ parents. Probably also explains the “Trish-dude.”

Once RAE is set to Aug-Dec kids, at U13 it will be tough for MLSN to identify players and be smart enough to pick the new players that could take advantage of RAE in a BY set up. MLSNs best chance would be to get their leagues down to about U10 to develop a BY ecosystem. But with DCU canning U14, they have a tough bridge to get from 8 year olds in BY aiming for the goal of free play at U15, playing true academy ball, with expensive online school to boot. Essentially MLSN P2P clubs will have to pick the best 8 year olds and will have a tough time cherry picking kids that have always played under an SY system. Kids won't love going from being a star in SY at the best positions to riding the pine and getting the left over or utility positions one year up in BY.

The holy grail is increasing participation with SY AND keeping enough BY around to have strong players from all birth months of the calendar. Also, why would it be considered really playing up a whole lot if Aug-Dec is only playing with Jan-July from the same birth year? They'd be the same age!

Because they would have to transition from a SY system to a BY system and skip an age group to do so. Only way this works is if mlsnext clubs have their own leagues and systems starting at u8.

Spoiler alert, the p2p clubs already do. And have in house leagues.

No, travel soccer starts at U8. Profit clubs have house leagues above as a cash cow, not to identify kids and munis have rec leagues as a community service. Real tou

So…translating that as “yes they do, but it’s stupid, and I don’t like it. Only rec soccer is a legitimate platform for how we identify talent prior to Academy”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:All this begs the question, is staying BY for MLSN/GA worth all the trouble and potential downsides?

What potential downsides? 🤣

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:GA will not stay BY.

New signal chat from Trish?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:GA will not stay BY.

New signal chat from Trish?

DP - no, it's just common sense. Also to fend off "why haven't they announced anything?!??!" - because there is absolutely no need to announce anything this far out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is extremely weird to call Tier 2 “academy” when they revolve their season around HS soccer. Such an obvious marketing gimmick. Do they think parents are that stupid? Oh right, they are.

Extremely weird? It’s actually pretty normal in youth sports. “Academy” used to mean something specific. Now it just tantamount to “program.” It’s marketing at this point.

Substituting the ever-so-prominent “MLS Academy” name, that so many Dads on here drool over, and imparting it to their second tier league, is weird yes. In fact it is blatantly deceitful because it used to be the pinnacle of what parents could tell others and now it means the opposite. It also forces those same dips*!t parents to say homegrown which is in and of itself self a weird name .

It's going to be really interesting if MLSN/GA stays BY.

True. Would be a very strange business decision on their part but could be the best thing for p2p honestly as it gives true space for an SY league like ECNL . But from a national standpoint, I think it hampers developing and determining the best players as the two leagues would play each other almost never.

I think it's strange people don't understand why they would and who believe SY is the end all be all.

Not a BY-Stan, but this is 100% spot on. The reasons to not change are glaringly clear.

I think the denial is likely from girls’ parents, and is a response to the obvious risk ECNL is taking in an ALMOST all or nothing gamble to make its boys side competitive with the talent draw of MLSN.

If MLSN switches, it would force GA to also switch, which gives relief to the ECNL girls’ parents. Probably also explains the “Trish-dude.”

Once RAE is set to Aug-Dec kids, at U13 it will be tough for MLSN to identify players and be smart enough to pick the new players that could take advantage of RAE in a BY set up. MLSNs best chance would be to get their leagues down to about U10 to develop a BY ecosystem. But with DCU canning U14, they have a tough bridge to get from 8 year olds in BY aiming for the goal of free play at U15, playing true academy ball, with expensive online school to boot. Essentially MLSN P2P clubs will have to pick the best 8 year olds and will have a tough time cherry picking kids that have always played under an SY system. Kids won't love going from being a star in SY at the best positions to riding the pine and getting the left over or utility positions one year up in BY.

The holy grail is increasing participation with SY AND keeping enough BY around to have strong players from all birth months of the calendar. Also, why would it be considered really playing up a whole lot if Aug-Dec is only playing with Jan-July from the same birth year? They'd be the same age!

Because they would have to transition from a SY system to a BY system and skip an age group to do so. Only way this works is if mlsnext clubs have their own leagues and systems starting at u8.

Spoiler alert, the p2p clubs already do. And have in house leagues.

No, travel soccer starts at U8. Profit clubs have house leagues above as a cash cow, not to identify kids and munis have rec leagues as a community service. Real tou

So…translating that as “yes they do, but it’s stupid, and I don’t like it. Only rec soccer is a legitimate platform for how we identify talent prior to Academy”

Bad translation. I wish clubs didn't label kids at 7 years old as winners and losers but its their business model not mine. The bulk of the poaching tends to come from other travel not rec or house. Again, not my rules. A Q4 kid going from rec/house in SY to high level travel one year up in BY isn't a well worn path.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All this begs the question, is staying BY for MLSN/GA worth all the trouble and potential downsides?

What potential downsides? 🤣

I feel like this question gets asked every couple hundred pages and only gets a few attempts that seem to be from BY parents saying, “ but international play can’t happen” or “MLSN is the top dog and can do what they want”.

You can keep asking the question but you won’t get a convincing, articulate, objective response.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All this begs the question, is staying BY for MLSN/GA worth all the trouble and potential downsides?

What potential downsides? 🤣

No downsides if they just pull a DA and close up shop without warning.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All this begs the question, is staying BY for MLSN/GA worth all the trouble and potential downsides?

What potential downsides? 🤣

No downsides if they just pull a DA and close up shop without warning.

DA didnt really "close up shop without warning". At least on the girls side everyone knew free soccer doesnt work if someone or some kind of action wasnt footing the bill. US Soccer wanted out and MLS wanted in. Which is why MLS Next exists today as a direct replacement of boys DA. Girls DA is a little more complicated because it never should have existed in the first place. Im sure US Soccer approached NWSL to take the girls side over and they simply said no. Which is when a bunch of clubs went back to ECNL and everyone else grouped together and created GA. If you read through the early GA documentation the intent was always to have NWSL take over GA and create Acadamies just like MLS did with the boys. When this didn't happen GA pivoted and copied ECNL. From a business perspective ECNL could have had it all if they would have just let all the DA clubs in. But they chose to only let certain clubs in. And now GA exists as their biggest competitor.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All this begs the question, is staying BY for MLSN/GA worth all the trouble and potential downsides?

What potential downsides? 🤣

No downsides if they just pull a DA and close up shop without warning.

DA didnt really "close up shop without warning". At least on the girls side everyone knew free soccer doesnt work if someone or some kind of action wasnt footing the bill. US Soccer wanted out and MLS wanted in. Which is why MLS Next exists today as a direct replacement of boys DA. Girls DA is a little more complicated because it never should have existed in the first place. Im sure US Soccer approached NWSL to take the girls side over and they simply said no. Which is when a bunch of clubs went back to ECNL and everyone else grouped together and created GA. If you read through the early GA documentation the intent was always to have NWSL take over GA and create Acadamies just like MLS did with the boys. When this didn't happen GA pivoted and copied ECNL. From a business perspective ECNL could have had it all if they would have just let all the DA clubs in. But they chose to only let certain clubs in. And now GA exists as their biggest competitor.

What i like about today vs 5 years ago is that because of the ranking app ECNLs mistake of only letting certain clubs in when DA blew up is easy to see. Before the ranking app there were ranking sites that were literally pay to play marketing and they'd print whatever they were paid to say. This still exists but nobody cares anymore if what's being written doesnt sync with the ranking app its garbage. I cant stress how bad it was when recruiters would contact clubs based on articles written by websites that were 100% paid for by leagues.

I see this same type of thing happening for players with stats as AI becomes better able to identify skills. As an example right now with forwards its easy to see who can finish. But, how do you identify mids and defenders? Eventually this will all be assessed by AI and coaches/docs will lose their power to pick favorites.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All this begs the question, is staying BY for MLSN/GA worth all the trouble and potential downsides?

What potential downsides? 🤣

No downsides if they just pull a DA and close up shop without warning.

DA didnt really "close up shop without warning". At least on the girls side everyone knew free soccer doesnt work if someone or some kind of action wasnt footing the bill. US Soccer wanted out and MLS wanted in. Which is why MLS Next exists today as a direct replacement of boys DA. Girls DA is a little more complicated because it never should have existed in the first place. Im sure US Soccer approached NWSL to take the girls side over and they simply said no. Which is when a bunch of clubs went back to ECNL and everyone else grouped together and created GA. If you read through the early GA documentation the intent was always to have NWSL take over GA and create Acadamies just like MLS did with the boys. When this didn't happen GA pivoted and copied ECNL. From a business perspective ECNL could have had it all if they would have just let all the DA clubs in. But they chose to only let certain clubs in. And now GA exists as their biggest competitor.

What i like about today vs 5 years ago is that because of the ranking app ECNLs mistake of only letting certain clubs in when DA blew up is easy to see. Before the ranking app there were ranking sites that were literally pay to play marketing and they'd print whatever they were paid to say. This still exists but nobody cares anymore if what's being written doesnt sync with the ranking app its garbage. I cant stress how bad it was when recruiters would contact clubs based on articles written by websites that were 100% paid for by leagues.

I see this same type of thing happening for players with stats as AI becomes better able to identify skills. As an example right now with forwards it’s easy to see who can finish. But, how do you identify mids and defenders? Eventually this will all be assessed by AI and coaches/docs will lose their power to pick favorites.

Eye in the sky will find some kids who don’t get pushed for the sake of coaches relationships. Pretty easy to say…. Sorry the computer wants #17 not number #5.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All this begs the question, is staying BY for MLSN/GA worth all the trouble and potential downsides?

What potential downsides? 🤣

No downsides if they just pull a DA and close up shop without warning.

DA didnt really "close up shop without warning". At least on the girls side everyone knew free soccer doesnt work if someone or some kind of action wasnt footing the bill. US Soccer wanted out and MLS wanted in. Which is why MLS Next exists today as a direct replacement of boys DA. Girls DA is a little more complicated because it never should have existed in the first place. Im sure US Soccer approached NWSL to take the girls side over and they simply said no. Which is when a bunch of clubs went back to ECNL and everyone else grouped together and created GA. If you read through the early GA documentation the intent was always to have NWSL take over GA and create Acadamies just like MLS did with the boys. When this didn't happen GA pivoted and copied ECNL. From a business perspective ECNL could have had it all if they would have just let all the DA clubs in. But they chose to only let certain clubs in. And now GA exists as their biggest competitor.

What i like about today vs 5 years ago is that because of the ranking app ECNLs mistake of only letting certain clubs in when DA blew up is easy to see. Before the ranking app there were ranking sites that were literally pay to play marketing and they'd print whatever they were paid to say. This still exists but nobody cares anymore if what's being written doesnt sync with the ranking app its garbage. I cant stress how bad it was when recruiters would contact clubs based on articles written by websites that were 100% paid for by leagues.

I see this same type of thing happening for players with stats as AI becomes better able to identify skills. As an example right now with forwards its easy to see who can finish. But, how do you identify mids and defenders? Eventually this will all be assessed by AI and coaches/docs will lose their power to pick favorites.

Great, we go this convo back to ECNL jealousy. Was worried the thread was getting too focused towards youth soccer age cutoffs. Can't hit 5,000 pages without the green eyed monster chiming in about my league's daddy is gonna beat up your league's dad talk.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All this begs the question, is staying BY for MLSN/GA worth all the trouble and potential downsides?

What potential downsides? 🤣

No downsides if they just pull a DA and close up shop without warning.

DA didnt really "close up shop without warning". At least on the girls side everyone knew free soccer doesnt work if someone or some kind of action wasnt footing the bill. US Soccer wanted out and MLS wanted in. Which is why MLS Next exists today as a direct replacement of boys DA. Girls DA is a little more complicated because it never should have existed in the first place. Im sure US Soccer approached NWSL to take the girls side over and they simply said no. Which is when a bunch of clubs went back to ECNL and everyone else grouped together and created GA. If you read through the early GA documentation the intent was always to have NWSL take over GA and create Acadamies just like MLS did with the boys. When this didn't happen GA pivoted and copied ECNL. From a business perspective ECNL could have had it all if they would have just let all the DA clubs in. But they chose to only let certain clubs in. And now GA exists as their biggest competitor.

What i like about today vs 5 years ago is that because of the ranking app ECNLs mistake of only letting certain clubs in when DA blew up is easy to see. Before the ranking app there were ranking sites that were literally pay to play marketing and they'd print whatever they were paid to say. This still exists but nobody cares anymore if what's being written doesnt sync with the ranking app its garbage. I cant stress how bad it was when recruiters would contact clubs based on articles written by websites that were 100% paid for by leagues.

I see this same type of thing happening for players with stats as AI becomes better able to identify skills. As an example right now with forwards its easy to see who can finish. But, how do you identify mids and defenders? Eventually this will all be assessed by AI and coaches/docs will lose their power to pick favorites.

Great, we go this convo back to ECNL jealousy. Was worried the thread was getting too focused towards youth soccer age cutoffs. Can't hit 5,000 pages without the green eyed monster chiming in about my league's daddy is gonna beat up your league's dad talk.

Jealousy? Of who? The PP just called out what happened when DA blew up. I didnt detect any Jealousy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is extremely weird to call Tier 2 “academy” when they revolve their season around HS soccer. Such an obvious marketing gimmick. Do they think parents are that stupid? Oh right, they are.

Extremely weird? It’s actually pretty normal in youth sports. “Academy” used to mean something specific. Now it just tantamount to “program.” It’s marketing at this point.

Substituting the ever-so-prominent “MLS Academy” name, that so many Dads on here drool over, and imparting it to their second tier league, is weird yes. In fact it is blatantly deceitful because it used to be the pinnacle of what parents could tell others and now it means the opposite. It also forces those same dips*!t parents to say homegrown which is in and of itself self a weird name .

It's going to be really interesting if MLSN/GA stays BY.

True. Would be a very strange business decision on their part but could be the best thing for p2p honestly as it gives true space for an SY league like ECNL . But from a national standpoint, I think it hampers developing and determining the best players as the two leagues would play each other almost never.

I think it's strange people don't understand why they would and who believe SY is the end all be all.

Not a BY-Stan, but this is 100% spot on. The reasons to not change are glaringly clear.

I think the denial is likely from girls’ parents, and is a response to the obvious risk ECNL is taking in an ALMOST all or nothing gamble to make its boys side competitive with the talent draw of MLSN.

If MLSN switches, it would force GA to also switch, which gives relief to the ECNL girls’ parents. Probably also explains the “Trish-dude.”

Once RAE is set to Aug-Dec kids, at U13 it will be tough for MLSN to identify players and be smart enough to pick the new players that could take advantage of RAE in a BY set up. MLSNs best chance would be to get their leagues down to about U10 to develop a BY ecosystem. But with DCU canning U14, they have a tough bridge to get from 8 year olds in BY aiming for the goal of free play at U15, playing true academy ball, with expensive online school to boot. Essentially MLSN P2P clubs will have to pick the best 8 year olds and will have a tough time cherry picking kids that have always played under an SY system. Kids won't love going from being a star in SY at the best positions to riding the pine and getting the left over or utility positions one year up in BY.

The holy grail is increasing participation with SY AND keeping enough BY around to have strong players from all birth months of the calendar. Also, why would it be considered really playing up a whole lot if Aug-Dec is only playing with Jan-July from the same birth year? They'd be the same age!

Because they would have to transition from a SY system to a BY system and skip an age group to do so. Only way this works is if mlsnext clubs have their own leagues and systems starting at u8.

Spoiler alert, the p2p clubs already do. And have in house leagues.

No, travel soccer starts at U8. Profit clubs have house leagues above as a cash cow, not to identify kids and munis have rec leagues as a community service. Real tou

So…translating that as “yes they do, but it’s stupid, and I don’t like it. Only rec soccer is a legitimate platform for how we identify talent prior to Academy”

Bad translation. I wish clubs didn't label kids at 7 years old as winners and losers but its their business model not mine. The bulk of the poaching tends to come from other travel not rec or house. Again, not my rules. A Q4 kid going from rec/house in SY to high level travel one year up in BY isn't a well worn path.

So…good translation. 🤣

But you got to share.