What will going to "the best" elementary/high school/AAP ultimately mean for your child's future?

[Anonymous]

I've been reading posts and trying to learn from the collective knowledge/opinion pool over the past few months. Often people are asking where to send their child or struggling to get into a program. I'm wondering (very genuinely) how you see this educational opportunity affecting what your child does or becomes in life (whether it is going to a well-regarded elementary school, high school or getting into AAP)?

To make an inexact analogy, some cars are more prestigious than others (i.e. a Mercedes/Lexus/BMW is considered better than a Ford/Toyota/Honda), but they all can take you to your desitnation. So, yes, I understand that some schools will have more studious peer groups or more challenging teachers, but if the "less prestigious" ones can get you to college, does it matter whether it was a Mercedes or a Ford that you took for the ride? And the same would apply to the "best colleges" -- what does going to a "best college" get you that going to a decent college won't?

So, I am asking, not to create a fight, I just feel like I must be missing something given how seriously people pursue certain programs or certain schools/pyramids. In what ways do you think this "better" ____ (fill in the blank) will impact where your child ends up in life?

thanks!

[Anonymous]

Well maybe I am not the person to answer your question. Our center is not one that is considered one of the "best". We did not have to appeal (but I would have) but DD's scores were uneven (and we were prepared to appeal).

If I had a kid who was doing well socially, was happy in their base school and was learning a lot, then no it would make no sense. But my kid was none of those things. She is one of those stereotypically quirky kids. She was bored, she was miserable, she was bullied and the teachers did NOT get her and honestly probably didn't even like her. She has a medical diagnosis and it created issues for them. She is sooooo much happier in the center. Life is not all roses and light, but she now has friends and she is not singled out. Her teachers and the counselor know better how to meet her social and emotional needs than did the base school. So knowing what I know about the program and depending on the needs of the kid, then I would definitely pursue the AAP identification as a means to an end.

I also think that the peer group factor becomes more important as kids get older. In K-2, most kids still basically love school and are happy to be there and learn. My oldest is now in 5th grade and I can assure you this is no longer true. Once kids start to hit 4th-5th grade, for whatever reason a lot of kids turn off. To be a kid who is eager and excited to learn and to have peers who view that as a less than desirable trait can be very hard on kids, especially girls. That is when many girls start to dumb themselves down to better fit in. I'm not saying it doesn't happen in AAP at all, but I do think it is less of an issue. And again, maybe in some schools this is not an issue, but I can only tell you that it is a HUGE issue for moms of older girls that I have seen. And having a girl who is very strong in math, I am quite worried about that effect.

[Anonymous]

Going to a big-name college has obvious value when it comes time to apply for jobs or graduate programs. I don't think there's any debating that.

As to elementary and secondary education, it depends on whether you're asking about the benefit of attending when the peanut gallery considers to be "the best" school, or attending the school that is best for your individual child. From personal experience, attending a top tier school that isn't a good fit is worse than going to a mediocre school.

[Anonymous]

I feel the same as 11:29.

For kids who thrive at their base school, I don't think parents really care if that school is "the best". Most of us (sane) parents just want our kids happy and doing well where they are. With 3 kids, I actually prefer my kids not going to the AAP center (so that they are all together).

That said, if I had a kid who I felt wasn't getting the attention, education, etc. that the base school had to offer, I would definitely try to find alternatives...and probably fret about it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Going to a big-name college has obvious value when it comes time to apply for jobs or graduate programs. I don't think there's any debating that.

However, this is a country that really allows second chances. There are a lot of people that "found" themselves in there 20's, went to community college, transferred to a state school, did well, then went to excellence.


I also know a lot of people that grew up in areas that did not have good schools that are doing well. Clearly, good schools are a good thing, but it does not guarantee success. Doing well at a state school will help grad school admissions more than someone who barely graduates from an ivy league school.

As for AAP/TJ, I have wondered if you did a double blind study, would you find a difference at the age of 30 or 40?

[Anonymous]

As others have said, it's not about the best school, it's about the best school for the child.
Sending a child to the GT/AAP program is not about prestige, it's about helping a child to learn in the best way he/she can. Most kids can learn in the ways that most teachers teach. Students on either end of the "intelligence" spectrum frequently need specially trained teachers to challenge them in appropriate ways.
I have a friend whose child has Down's Syndrome. She is a strong advocate for her child in the school system. It seems that every year she has to fight to ensure that her child is in an appropriate educational setting. She does this because she knows how important the right teaching methods are to her child's progress, and her child deserves the best education possible!
Identifying students who cannot truly learn and grow in the regular classroom and providing teachers who have been trained in the best methods to help these students is what AAP is all about. It's simply about trying to teach each child in the best way for that child.

[Anonymous]

I like this thread. I hear all of the time that most parents want their children in Gt so they can go to TJ..and then what? Be coders? I didn't believe this until my husband went to a GT ealry school meeting and 5 different parents asked what calsses were being taught(to 3rd graders) to allow the kids the best chance to go to TJ.

A very smart friend of mine said that undergrad schools are pretty much all OK, Ivies excepted, but Grad schools are where the prestige counts. I wonder why everyone is killing themselves trying to get their kids in to the Ivies? I remember very well my husband worked for a big retail chain, now out of business, that was showing a new store manager around in training. He had a Stanford MBA. I guess I would be upset if my son went all the way thru Stanford and ended up a manager at a crummy retail chain. He could have gone to a local state school and done the same thing (at a third the cost)

[Anonymous]

I think there are two specific long-term advantages in going to a very well-regarded college or grad school (Ivy or otherwise): (1) people will use your diploma as a proxy for intelligence; and (2) networking -- your classmates will, by and large, wind up having successful careers, which will help your career since jobs are so much about who you know. Also, many Ivy students have successful parents and friends, which adds another level of networking opportunities.

All this is much less true for high school and below. However, there is to a certain extent a feeder system from top high schools (e.g., TJ or Sidwell) into top colleges. And, especially at the privates, opportunity to network with successful families. After all, many people get jobs through their own parents or their friend's parents.

But, of course, students from "regular" high schools can and do go on to prestigious colleges and grad schools, and people have fabulous careers from not-that-prestigious colleges and grad schools.

For example, I went to a no-name public high school, a good (but not uber-prestigious) college, and an Ivy law school. My Ivy credentials have opened lots of doors, absolutely. On the other hand, my husband went to public/mediocre schools all the way through and has an equally -- if not more -- successful career than I do.

[Anonymous]

My husband and I have debated this as well. Our children are 4 and 2, so we'll need to make decisions soon (we also happen to be moving soon). Both of us want to ensure that whatever school district we are in is "top rated". However, both of us came from no-name-country-bumpkin schools. He went to a no-name college, and no-name graduate school, and he's fairly successful. I went to a big name university, and a no-name grad school, and equally have a decent career. So, our schools didn't matter. Our hard work did. I do not doubt that having and Ivy League degree would open doors... but honestly, neither of us want work to consume us, and neither do we want work to consume our childrens lives.
So, as long as the school is crime and drug free, I think our children will do just fine. There's more important things in life than what title you carry and who you network with.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:As others have said, it's not about the best school, it's about the best school for the child.
Sending a child to the GT/AAP program is not about prestige, it's about helping a child to learn in the best way he/she can. Most kids can learn in the ways that most teachers teach. Students on either end of the "intelligence" spectrum frequently need specially trained teachers to challenge them in appropriate ways.
I have a friend whose child has Down's Syndrome. She is a strong advocate for her child in the school system. It seems that every year she has to fight to ensure that her child is in an appropriate educational setting. She does this because she knows how important the right teaching methods are to her child's progress, and her child deserves the best education possible!
Identifying students who cannot truly learn and grow in the regular classroom and providing teachers who have been trained in the best methods to help these students is what AAP is all about. It's simply about trying to teach each child in the best way for that child.

For example, I have a second grader who was recently ask by a peer what he had made on his report card. My son told him he had received all "O's". The peer responded "no way, you are not smarter than me". This peer has been targeted by FCPS and his parents have been pushing for AAP since K. I feel certain I am not the only parent (and child) who has experienced this type of situation. When a 2nd grader is, first, asking another 2nd grader his grades and, second, responds with a comment like that, I can only question the parents motivation for pushing their child and the authenticity (FCPS) of the AAP program itself. Meaning, I also believe FCPS chooses to keep the high performing kids in the GE program.

If all student's are afforded the same opportunities to excel keeping high performers in the GE program is not an issue for me. However, I have recently been made aware the compacted/advanced math class will not be offered in our base school next year, and, this year multiplication was cut from the 2nd grade curriculum. It is my understanding from the FCPS program of studies, in order for a child to take Algebra 1 in 7th grade they need to meet the following criteria, 1.) compacted math 5th/6th, 2). pass advanced on SOL's, 3). advance passing on the Iowa Math Test. So, if compacted math is not being offered in the GE schools, how is a GE student going to meet this criteria? I was told the individual teachers would teach multiple levels of math in the classroom. With 25-30 student? The AAPT can not handle the amount of kids she already has so who is going to get left behind here? The high performing GE students.

My sons grades are great his Cogats and NNats were very high but I chose not to pursue AAP center placement. When you all read the negative comments posted here, many of you do not want to see, these are the kinds of issues we non AAP parents are dealing with. The AAP program is great for the children who really have an need for it and I have known several. But for the child who's parents think it is going to give them and edge in the future I feel they will be greatly disappointed! Parents need to leave their kids out of the details of this program and the process of getting in and FCPS need to let only the kids who really need the program be in the program. In this way, the high performing students in the GE program will continue to get the advanced opportunities because there will be a greater need for it. I don't know who will suffer the most the child who thinks he is superior to everyone else or the child who was told he is not as smart.

If anyone has more detail about the dropping of compacted/advanced math in the GE schools I would appreciate your information.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As others have said, it's not about the best school, it's about the best school for the child.
Sending a child to the GT/AAP program is not about prestige, it's about helping a child to learn in the best way he/she can. Most kids can learn in the ways that most teachers teach. Students on either end of the "intelligence" spectrum frequently need specially trained teachers to challenge them in appropriate ways.

Well said that is exactly what it is for! It is nice to know there are some parents who truly understand. However, many of the parents in Fairfax county seem to believe if their child is in the AAP program he/she is a step above in intelligence. This is causing children to feel "not smart", and other parent to feel their children "aren't good enough" if they are not in the program. This needs to stop!!

I have a friend whose child has Down's Syndrome. She is a strong advocate for her child in the school system. It seems that every year she has to fight to ensure that her child is in an appropriate educational setting. She does this because she knows how important the right teaching methods are to her child's progress, and her child deserves the best education possible!
Identifying students who cannot truly learn and grow in the regular classroom and providing teachers who have been trained in the best methods to help these students is what AAP is all about. It's simply about trying to teach each child in the best way for that child.

For example, I have a second grader who was recently ask by a peer what he had made on his report card. My son told him he had received all "O's". The peer responded "no way, you are not smarter than me". This peer has been targeted by FCPS and his parents have been pushing for AAP since K. I feel certain I am not the only parent (and child) who has experienced this type of situation. When a 2nd grader is, first, asking another 2nd grader his grades and, second, responds with a comment like that, I can only question the parents motivation for pushing their child and the authenticity (FCPS) of the AAP program itself. Meaning, I also believe FCPS chooses to keep the high performing kids in the GE program.

If all student's are afforded the same opportunities to excel keeping high performers in the GE program is not an issue for me. However, I have recently been made aware the compacted/advanced math class will not be offered in our base school next year, and, this year multiplication was cut from the 2nd grade curriculum. It is my understanding from the FCPS program of studies, in order for a child to take Algebra 1 in 7th grade they need to meet the following criteria, 1.) compacted math 5th/6th, 2). pass advanced on SOL's, 3). advance passing on the Iowa Math Test. So, if compacted math is not being offered in the GE schools, how is a GE student going to meet this criteria? I was told the individual teachers would teach multiple levels of math in the classroom. With 25-30 student? The AAPT can not handle the amount of kids she already has so who is going to get left behind here? The high performing GE students.

My sons grades are great his Cogats and NNats were very high but I chose not to pursue AAP center placement. When you all read the negative comments posted here, many of you do not want to see, these are the kinds of issues we non AAP parents are dealing with. The AAP program is great for the children who really have an need for it and I have known several. But for the child who's parents think it is going to give them and edge in the future I feel they will be greatly disappointed! Parents need to leave their kids out of the details of this program and the process of getting in and FCPS need to let only the kids who really need the program be in the program. In this way, the high performing students in the GE program will continue to get the advanced opportunities because there will be a greater need for it. I don't know who will suffer the most the child who thinks he is superior to everyone else or the child who was told he is not as smart.

If anyone has more detail about the dropping of compacted/advanced math in the GE schools I would appreciate your information.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:As others have said, it's not about the best school, it's about the best school for the child.
Sending a child to the GT/AAP program is not about prestige, it's about helping a child to learn in the best way he/she can. Most kids can learn in the ways that most teachers teach. Students on either end of the "intelligence" spectrum frequently need specially trained teachers to challenge them in appropriate ways.
I have a friend whose child has Down's Syndrome. She is a strong advocate for her child in the school system. It seems that every year she has to fight to ensure that her child is in an appropriate educational setting. She does this because she knows how important the right teaching methods are to her child's progress, and her child deserves the best education possible!
Identifying students who cannot truly learn and grow in the regular classroom and providing teachers who have been trained in the best methods to help these students is what AAP is all about. It's simply about trying to teach each child in the best way for that child.

Well said that is exactly what it is for! It is nice to know there are some parents who truly understand. However, many of the parents in Fairfax county seem to believe if their child is in the AAP program he/she is a step above in intelligence. This is causing children to feel "not smart", and other parent to feel their children "aren't good enough" if they are not in the program. This needs to stop!!

For example, I have a second grader who was recently ask by a peer what he had made on his report card. My son told him he had received all "O's". The peer responded "no way, you are not smarter than me". This peer has been targeted by FCPS and his parents have been pushing for AAP since K. I feel certain I am not the only parent (and child) who has experienced this type of situation. When a 2nd grader is, first, asking another 2nd grader his grades and, second, responds with a comment like that, I can only question the parents motivation for pushing their child and the authenticity (FCPS) of the AAP program itself. Meaning, I also believe FCPS chooses to keep the high performing kids in the GE program.

If all student's are afforded the same opportunities to excel keeping high performers in the GE program is not an issue for me. However, I have recently been made aware the compacted/advanced math class will not be offered in our base school next year, and, this year multiplication was cut from the 2nd grade curriculum. It is my understanding from the FCPS program of studies, in order for a child to take Algebra 1 in 7th grade they need to meet the following criteria, 1.) compacted math 5th/6th, 2). pass advanced on SOL's, 3). advance passing on the Iowa Math Test. So, if compacted math is not being offered in the GE schools, how is a GE student going to meet this criteria? I was told the individual teachers would teach multiple levels of math in the classroom. With 25-30 student? The AAPT can not handle the amount of kids she already has so who is going to get left behind here? The high performing GE students.

My sons grades are great his Cogats and NNats were very high but I chose not to pursue AAP center placement. When you all read the negative comments posted here, many of you do not want to see, these are the kinds of issues we non AAP parents are dealing with. The AAP program is great for the children who really have an need for it and I have known several. But for the child who's parents think it is going to give them and edge in the future I feel they will be greatly disappointed! Parents need to leave their kids out of the details of this program and the process of getting in and FCPS need to let only the kids who really need the program be in the program. In this way, the high performing students in the GE program will continue to get the advanced opportunities because there will be a greater need for it. I don't know who will suffer the most the child who thinks he is superior to everyone else or the child who was told he is not as smart.

If anyone has more detail about the dropping of compacted/advanced math in the GE schools I would appreciate your information.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:[However, I have recently been made aware the compacted/advanced math class will not be offered in our base school next year, and, this year multiplication was cut from the 2nd grade curriculum.

Someone provided incorrect information to you. Compacted math has been renamed, but not removed.

http://www.fcps.edu/DIS/OEIAS/math/math.htm

The new 2009 Virginia Department of Education (VDOE) mathematics standards will be fully implemented in the 2011-2012 school year. With the implementation of the new standards Fairfax County Public Schools (FCPS) is aligning the new Elementary Mathematics Instructional Sequence (EMIS) with these standards. EMIS will allow all students to access the advanced mathematics curriculum either in an advanced mathematics classroom or in a general education classroom through differentiation. The new instructional sequence provides teachers with the tools needed for differentiation. EMIS offers multiple entry points for students to access the advanced mathematics curriculum when they have developed the cognitive skills to be successful. Advanced mathematics extended indicators and above grade level correlated standards will be available for students as early as kindergarten and will build a stronger foundation in mathematics.

[Anonymous]

At our base school (also Local Level IV) indeed, they said compacted math is being renamed, and will be offered to those who need it, regardless of AAP status. This was explained at our AAP orientation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:At our base school (also Local Level IV) indeed, they said compacted math is being renamed, and will be offered to those who need it, regardless of AAP status. This was explained at our AAP orientation.

this is good to hear! Thanks.