What happened to this California family?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Was the baby still on the dad's lap? If the parents died first, the baby would have fallen off or wandered off. Carrying a baby in a pack can cause a person to overheat even more. They may have shared carrying the baby, but if they were avid hikers, you'd think they would be somewhat in shape. I don't think drinking moldy water would have killed them instantly. One parent could have been mentally ill and the other parent may have suggested they go on a hike to clear their heads. Buying the airbnb could have been a diversion, to make it seem like they had plans for the future.

I mean he still had job working for snapchat as a software engineer. A pretty in-demand position considering the technical knowledge needed.

They haven't spoken up - maybe he was getting fired but there's been no word about that. And they were still paying a nanny who arrived on time on Monday.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The whole thing is awful. And if they didn't give that water to their baby and dog, it means the baby and dog maybe died AFTER the adults in the heat which is just...the stuff of nightmares on top of a nightmare already.

Maybe mom collapsed, and dad was trying to get help, but wasn't going to leave the dog and baby with collapsed mom, but then he didn't make it either, further down the hill. And then baby and dog perish in the interim.

Unless it was murder/suicide. Which I'd keep on the table until it's cleared.

Hiking on the hot day with a baby isn't unusual. Maybe they planned to be home by 9am. My infants woke up at 5am, we definitely could have done 7am hiking and planned to be home early.

In this scenario, the dog would not have died sitting next to the man.

The dog would have gone down to the river to find water and shade. Dogs also do not want to die in the open, they will go off to hide to die.

Not to mention they were found the same day, 9 hours later. Even in 109 degree heat, a healthy dog would have survived that long.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The whole thing is awful. And if they didn't give that water to their baby and dog, it means the baby and dog maybe died AFTER the adults in the heat which is just...the stuff of nightmares on top of a nightmare already.

Maybe mom collapsed, and dad was trying to get help, but wasn't going to leave the dog and baby with collapsed mom, but then he didn't make it either, further down the hill. And then baby and dog perish in the interim.

Unless it was murder/suicide. Which I'd keep on the table until it's cleared.

Hiking on the hot day with a baby isn't unusual. Maybe they planned to be home by 9am. My infants woke up at 5am, we definitely could have done 7am hiking and planned to be home early.

In this scenario, the dog would not have died sitting next to the man.

The dog would have gone down to the river to find water and shade. Dogs also do not want to die in the open, they will go off to hide to die.

Not to mention they were found the same day, 9 hours later. Even in 109 degree heat, a healthy dog would have survived that long.

They left their house on Sunday and were found Tuesday.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The whole thing is awful. And if they didn't give that water to their baby and dog, it means the baby and dog maybe died AFTER the adults in the heat which is just...the stuff of nightmares on top of a nightmare already.

Maybe mom collapsed, and dad was trying to get help, but wasn't going to leave the dog and baby with collapsed mom, but then he didn't make it either, further down the hill. And then baby and dog perish in the interim.

Unless it was murder/suicide. Which I'd keep on the table until it's cleared.

Hiking on the hot day with a baby isn't unusual. Maybe they planned to be home by 9am. My infants woke up at 5am, we definitely could have done 7am hiking and planned to be home early.

In this scenario, the dog would not have died sitting next to the man.

The dog would have gone down to the river to find water and shade. Dogs also do not want to die in the open, they will go off to hide to die.

Not to mention they were found the same day, 9 hours later. Even in 109 degree heat, a healthy dog would have survived that long.

They left their house on Sunday and were found Tuesday.

Ah, okay. But I would assume if the dog was healthy, it would have gone off in search of shade, water, food, or people.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The whole thing is awful. And if they didn't give that water to their baby and dog, it means the baby and dog maybe died AFTER the adults in the heat which is just...the stuff of nightmares on top of a nightmare already.

Maybe mom collapsed, and dad was trying to get help, but wasn't going to leave the dog and baby with collapsed mom, but then he didn't make it either, further down the hill. And then baby and dog perish in the interim.

Unless it was murder/suicide. Which I'd keep on the table until it's cleared.

Hiking on the hot day with a baby isn't unusual. Maybe they planned to be home by 9am. My infants woke up at 5am, we definitely could have done 7am hiking and planned to be home early.

In this scenario, the dog would not have died sitting next to the man.

The dog would have gone down to the river to find water and shade. Dogs also do not want to die in the open, they will go off to hide to die.

Not to mention they were found the same day, 9 hours later. Even in 109 degree heat, a healthy dog would have survived that long.

They left their house on Sunday and were found Tuesday.

Dog would still be alive. Dehydrated but alive. Also the nanny tried to contact the parents all Monday. They were in a area with no cell service but the fact that neither of them were able to crawl or walk back to their car suggests they were incapacitated as early as Monday morning.

[Anonymous]

As always, Websleuths does a good job on real-life mysteries. Here's the thread: https://www.websleuths.com/forums/threads/ca-jonathan-gerrish-ellen-chung-daughter-1-dog-suspicious-death-remote-hiking-area-aug-2021.582843/page-43 I find this poster's theory (starting with the dog swimming in toxic water) plausible:

I can imagine a scenario where the dog was off leash, scouting ahead of the family, reached the water, and took a drink and perhaps a swim. The family arrives and is immediately concerned, and the dog begins to show poisoning symptoms. The adults now have to carry an ailing dog, infant, water, and any other gear they may have back up the switchbacks. They are distressed and rushing while bearing additional weight and heat. One or both of the adults could even have suffered a minor injury like a sprained ankle. The father begins to show signs of heat distress. The dad sits down on the trail in the midst of heat stroke. The mom, familiar with the symptoms, goes to him, puts down her dog, and removes the child carrier. She tries to cool him down with some of the remaining water. Knowing she is just a mile and a half from the car, she leaves her family in the middle of the trail in the event other hikers may pass and begins to sprint to the car carrying only her keys and phone. But her distress, exhaustion, and possible injury (exposure to toxins from carrying the dog? sprain?) etc. catch up with her. She is unable to continue.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:As always, Websleuths does a good job on real-life mysteries. Here's the thread: https://www.websleuths.com/forums/threads/ca-jonathan-gerrish-ellen-chung-daughter-1-dog-suspicious-death-remote-hiking-area-aug-2021.582843/page-43 I find this poster's theory (starting with the dog swimming in toxic water) plausible:

I can imagine a scenario where the dog was off leash, scouting ahead of the family, reached the water, and took a drink and perhaps a swim. The family arrives and is immediately concerned, and the dog begins to show poisoning symptoms. The adults now have to carry an ailing dog, infant, water, and any other gear they may have back up the switchbacks. They are distressed and rushing while bearing additional weight and heat. One or both of the adults could even have suffered a minor injury like a sprained ankle. The father begins to show signs of heat distress. The dad sits down on the trail in the midst of heat stroke. The mom, familiar with the symptoms, goes to him, puts down her dog, and removes the child carrier. She tries to cool him down with some of the remaining water. Knowing she is just a mile and a half from the car, she leaves her family in the middle of the trail in the event other hikers may pass and begins to sprint to the car carrying only her keys and phone. But her distress, exhaustion, and possible injury (exposure to toxins from carrying the dog? sprain?) etc. catch up with her. She is unable to continue.

No, I think that's very far-fetched and ignoring the most obvious explanation of deliberate poisoning. Algae blooms don't cause immediate poisoning and a mom of a 1 year old would crawl over hot coals to get back to the car that was just 30 minutes away. Heat stroke in a dry climate doesn't hit that quickly. It was deliberate poisoning.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The whole thing is awful. And if they didn't give that water to their baby and dog, it means the baby and dog maybe died AFTER the adults in the heat which is just...the stuff of nightmares on top of a nightmare already.

Maybe mom collapsed, and dad was trying to get help, but wasn't going to leave the dog and baby with collapsed mom, but then he didn't make it either, further down the hill. And then baby and dog perish in the interim.

Unless it was murder/suicide. Which I'd keep on the table until it's cleared.

Hiking on the hot day with a baby isn't unusual. Maybe they planned to be home by 9am. My infants woke up at 5am, we definitely could have done 7am hiking and planned to be home early.

In this scenario, the dog would not have died sitting next to the man.

The dog would have gone down to the river to find water and shade. Dogs also do not want to die in the open, they will go off to hide to die.

Unless he was leashed to something.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:As always, Websleuths does a good job on real-life mysteries. Here's the thread: https://www.websleuths.com/forums/threads/ca-jonathan-gerrish-ellen-chung-daughter-1-dog-suspicious-death-remote-hiking-area-aug-2021.582843/page-43 I find this poster's theory (starting with the dog swimming in toxic water) plausible:

I can imagine a scenario where the dog was off leash, scouting ahead of the family, reached the water, and took a drink and perhaps a swim. The family arrives and is immediately concerned, and the dog begins to show poisoning symptoms. The adults now have to carry an ailing dog, infant, water, and any other gear they may have back up the switchbacks. They are distressed and rushing while bearing additional weight and heat. One or both of the adults could even have suffered a minor injury like a sprained ankle. The father begins to show signs of heat distress. The dad sits down on the trail in the midst of heat stroke. The mom, familiar with the symptoms, goes to him, puts down her dog, and removes the child carrier. She tries to cool him down with some of the remaining water. Knowing she is just a mile and a half from the car, she leaves her family in the middle of the trail in the event other hikers may pass and begins to sprint to the car carrying only her keys and phone. But her distress, exhaustion, and possible injury (exposure to toxins from carrying the dog? sprain?) etc. catch up with her. She is unable to continue.

That’s…not what I would call a good job.

[Anonymous]

Heat stroke is not fast-acting enough to incapacitate two adults and a dog only 1.5 miles from their car.

In addition the father had the mother's phone when he died. Sounds like at least one of the two adults was delirious because if the mother was going back to the car for help - she would have taken the phone, if not the baby.

The mother was also first aid trained and from California. I can't imagine its not a natural gas/CO thing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:As always, Websleuths does a good job on real-life mysteries. Here's the thread: https://www.websleuths.com/forums/threads/ca-jonathan-gerrish-ellen-chung-daughter-1-dog-suspicious-death-remote-hiking-area-aug-2021.582843/page-43 I find this poster's theory (starting with the dog swimming in toxic water) plausible:

I can imagine a scenario where the dog was off leash, scouting ahead of the family, reached the water, and took a drink and perhaps a swim. The family arrives and is immediately concerned, and the dog begins to show poisoning symptoms. The adults now have to carry an ailing dog, infant, water, and any other gear they may have back up the switchbacks. They are distressed and rushing while bearing additional weight and heat. One or both of the adults could even have suffered a minor injury like a sprained ankle. The father begins to show signs of heat distress. The dad sits down on the trail in the midst of heat stroke. The mom, familiar with the symptoms, goes to him, puts down her dog, and removes the child carrier. She tries to cool him down with some of the remaining water. Knowing she is just a mile and a half from the car, she leaves her family in the middle of the trail in the event other hikers may pass and begins to sprint to the car carrying only her keys and phone. But her distress, exhaustion, and possible injury (exposure to toxins from carrying the dog? sprain?) etc. catch up with her. She is unable to continue.

I have a hard time seeing mom leaving baby with very ill dad.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Heat stroke is not fast-acting enough to incapacitate two adults and a dog only 1.5 miles from their car.

In addition the father had the mother's phone when he died. Sounds like at least one of the two adults was delirious because if the mother was going back to the car for help - she would have taken the phone, if not the baby.

The mother was also first aid trained and from California. I can't imagine its not a natural gas/CO thing.

We don’t know how long they were hiking, or whether they were doing one of the loops or an out and back. Someone on the Websleuths thread posted the average temps there for that time of year, and they go from the 50s before dawn to the almost 110 we’ve been discussing. I think the theory that the hike was unexpectedly prolonged makes sense, and some reports mention two phones, not just 1. I also am interested in the toxic gas theory. I usually just assume murder suicide, but I don’t see it here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The Dad was older, 46, techie who only settled down with his pretty non-techie wife recently. That is squarely in the burning man demographic, and I wonder if they were into recreational drugs and took a bad batch or misidentified wild mushrooms? I mean, no judgement if they do.

More sinister interpretation, he was a 40+ old man set in his way, got hooked into marriage and baby by a pretty young woman, and wanted out after a year stuck with them. As a high paid tech employee married to a social sciences grad student, he was looking at crippling child support and alimony. His carefree rich life was over no matter what he did. I don’t think it’s that, but he is old for a 1st time dad.

The drugs theory doesn't explain the baby and dog being dead.

I agree that the drugs theory does not explain the dead dog or dead baby.

To answer the PP's question: the couple was pretty involved in the Burning Man community in Northern CA. We have a few mutual friends on Facebook and the public portions of their Facebook profiles have BM photos.

The husband appears to be from the UK originally.

I'm sticking with the murder-suicide poisoning. One of the parents is probably a woo-woo QAnon nut and this is a copycat of the surfing dad who murdered his kids in Mexico, which was a huge story in California. These things happen in waves.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As always, Websleuths does a good job on real-life mysteries. Here's the thread: https://www.websleuths.com/forums/threads/ca-jonathan-gerrish-ellen-chung-daughter-1-dog-suspicious-death-remote-hiking-area-aug-2021.582843/page-43 I find this poster's theory (starting with the dog swimming in toxic water) plausible:

I can imagine a scenario where the dog was off leash, scouting ahead of the family, reached the water, and took a drink and perhaps a swim. The family arrives and is immediately concerned, and the dog begins to show poisoning symptoms. The adults now have to carry an ailing dog, infant, water, and any other gear they may have back up the switchbacks. They are distressed and rushing while bearing additional weight and heat. One or both of the adults could even have suffered a minor injury like a sprained ankle. The father begins to show signs of heat distress. The dad sits down on the trail in the midst of heat stroke. The mom, familiar with the symptoms, goes to him, puts down her dog, and removes the child carrier. She tries to cool him down with some of the remaining water. Knowing she is just a mile and a half from the car, she leaves her family in the middle of the trail in the event other hikers may pass and begins to sprint to the car carrying only her keys and phone. But her distress, exhaustion, and possible injury (exposure to toxins from carrying the dog? sprain?) etc. catch up with her. She is unable to continue.

That’s…not what I would call a good job.

Why...not? (Another nice thing about Websleuths is that posters treat each other with respect over there, understanding that no members of the public have enough facts in the early rounds of an investigation to settle on a single theory.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As always, Websleuths does a good job on real-life mysteries. Here's the thread: https://www.websleuths.com/forums/threads/ca-jonathan-gerrish-ellen-chung-daughter-1-dog-suspicious-death-remote-hiking-area-aug-2021.582843/page-43 I find this poster's theory (starting with the dog swimming in toxic water) plausible:

I can imagine a scenario where the dog was off leash, scouting ahead of the family, reached the water, and took a drink and perhaps a swim. The family arrives and is immediately concerned, and the dog begins to show poisoning symptoms. The adults now have to carry an ailing dog, infant, water, and any other gear they may have back up the switchbacks. They are distressed and rushing while bearing additional weight and heat. One or both of the adults could even have suffered a minor injury like a sprained ankle. The father begins to show signs of heat distress. The dad sits down on the trail in the midst of heat stroke. The mom, familiar with the symptoms, goes to him, puts down her dog, and removes the child carrier. She tries to cool him down with some of the remaining water. Knowing she is just a mile and a half from the car, she leaves her family in the middle of the trail in the event other hikers may pass and begins to sprint to the car carrying only her keys and phone. But her distress, exhaustion, and possible injury (exposure to toxins from carrying the dog? sprain?) etc. catch up with her. She is unable to continue.

That’s…not what I would call a good job.

Why...not? (Another nice thing about Websleuths is that posters treat each other with respect over there, understanding that no members of the public have enough facts in the early rounds of an investigation to settle on a single theory.)

It’s not a good explanation because it is inconceivable that both parents were immediately felled by the heat moments after the dog is felled by poisonous algae. And the mom didn’t have her phone with her, which undermines the idea that she was going for help.