Is this inappropriate-school district requiring teachers to read White Fragility?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:“ What? No it doesn't! You think that the only racism that's real racism is intentional and malicious? That's obviously not the only kind-- willful and intentional racism is probably a pretty small sliver of racism these days. That doesn't make unintended racism "not real racism," though. Is this why people freak out about being called racist-- you honestly think the only meaning of racist is "I don't like people of color/I proudly admit I think they're inferior to me?"”

We will have to agree to disagree. I agree that the unintentional slights and biases should be addressed to help shape a fairer society to live in. I strongly disagree with the premise that we should label those people as racists and think it is counter productive to the goal of working toward change.

Also Diangelo slams the phrase I very much agree with the “you get more flies with honey” approach of winning people to your side and to being open to change.

It’s ok that you are in denial and angry. You’ll get there - it just takes time.

And when is the stage where you all start going door-to-door with pamphlets? That's ok, too. Just avoid the kool-aid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:She should have been sjw autocorrect. And to pp unconscious bias is a lot different than active racisim

I will actually throw y'all a bone that unconscious bias is an issue due to the fact that there are racial stereotypes based on some truths but become an issue and racist when applied to a situation without actually evaluating it first

I would support having a conversation on the last paragraph but a book that starts from a false premise of all whites are racist is not only wrong but dangerous especially when used as support for a racist driven agenda against whites from poc

Citation?

Where do you think this author came from. All this garbage is being driven out of liberal college and universities with x studies departments and liberal white guilt folks in psychology, sociology and other departments

You have to be living under a rock to not understand what the end game is here. The fact that reparations is getting steam in certain quarters, the fact that open POC racists and benders of history are getting awards from dumb woke organizations.

Just google I'm talking about folks like Nikole Hannah Jones, the whole BLM movement and the people behind it, the shard leftward embarrassment turn of the NYT over the past year, Ibram X. Kendi etc

There are plenty of crazies on the right but the mainstream left keeps amplifying theirs

Do you think that black lives matter?

How do you want to address systemic racism in our country? In our schools?

[Anonymous]

The author's status as a racist does not make all white people racist. It's a good idea to examine your own assumptions if/when you make them but you should no more claim racism than you would any other flaw if you don't have it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:She should have been sjw autocorrect. And to pp unconscious bias is a lot different than active racisim

I will actually throw y'all a bone that unconscious bias is an issue due to the fact that there are racial stereotypes based on some truths but become an issue and racist when applied to a situation without actually evaluating it first

I would support having a conversation on the last paragraph but a book that starts from a false premise of all whites are racist is not only wrong but dangerous especially when used as support for a racist driven agenda against whites from poc

Citation?

Where do you think this author came from. All this garbage is being driven out of liberal college and universities with x studies departments and liberal white guilt folks in psychology, sociology and other departments

You have to be living under a rock to not understand what the end game is here. The fact that reparations is getting steam in certain quarters, the fact that open POC racists and benders of history are getting awards from dumb woke organizations.

Just google I'm talking about folks like Nikole Hannah Jones, the whole BLM movement and the people behind it, the shard leftward embarrassment turn of the NYT over the past year, Ibram X. Kendi etc

There are plenty of crazies on the right but the mainstream left keeps amplifying theirs

Do you think that black lives matter?

How do you want to address systemic racism in our country? In our schools?

Yes black lives matter . Black Lives Matter, a young adult male is tens of thousands more times likely to be killed by another young black male instead of a cop but that doesn't fit the bs BLM the organization is peddling

You can fix systemic racism in the country and schools in the same way that their has progress with LGBT. By having people of different races and cultures interacting and talking to each other. By calling out actual racism and ostracizing people who actively practice it.

At the same time, you can help fix systemic racism throughout the country and schools through personal choices that don't reinforce negative stereotypes. By having more URM intact families, by encouraging and demanding mature behavior, being prepared for school by building up hard work, personal responsibility, graduating high school, getting a job/college, marriage and then kids in that order. By removing the term "Acting white" and replacing it with "acting responsible".

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The author's status as a racist does not make all white people racist. It's a good idea to examine your own assumptions if/when you make them but you should no more claim racism than you would any other flaw if you don't have it.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wow. So much white fragility. AKA snowflakes.

Put on your big girl panties and read the book. You won’t melt.

It’s not the reading it, it’s the discussing such a loaded topic with coworkers that’s the problem. Do you honestly not see how a white person who disagrees with the book’s premise and says so during the discussion, could be placing themselves in a very precarious situation?

If someone isn’t willing to read a book with an open mind and discuss on any level (even if they disagree), then that person isn’t intellectually curious enough to be in a teaching position.

I’d also be curious why they “disagree with the premise”.

Uh, you don't understand the issue, PP. RIF (reading is fundamental). It isn't that the poster is concerned about reading and discussing the book, the poster is concerned about a supervisor hearing the poster's opinion, disagreeing and then penalizing the poster for his/her opinion.

I agree with the poster that this is a great danger. The supervisor could think the book is the greatest truth ever written or the supervisor could think the whole thing is hogwash; either way a subordinate disagreeing with a supervisor's opinion during a book club "discussion" could have negative consequences for the subordinate.

Your simplistic approach shows your immaturity. Try to look outside of yourself a little bit. Once you have a job and experience the work world perhaps your worldview will grow to accept that others can make have opinions that are valuable.

We grownups know how to discuss points from a variety of materials without throwing in opinions. PP can discuss the book without revealing opinions.

If PP doesn’t want to acknowledge that our country, society, and education here in the US has deep racist roots then that’s a different story.

Again, you seem to be coming at this from a place of limited experience. A supervisor who has strong negative feelings about a subordinate could certainly use this little book club as an opportunity to browbeat a staff member. Would the staff member then be able to go to HR to document a hostile workplace? Yes but the staff member would still have gone through the horrible experience.

I hope that OP is not talking about a DMV school system. I cannot imagine any school system in this area that is so remiss that it would allow OP's book club to take place as a mandatory activity for staff members. The potential for blowback onto the school system seems exponential.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:She should have been sjw autocorrect. And to pp unconscious bias is a lot different than active racisim

I will actually throw y'all a bone that unconscious bias is an issue due to the fact that there are racial stereotypes based on some truths but become an issue and racist when applied to a situation without actually evaluating it first

I would support having a conversation on the last paragraph but a book that starts from a false premise of all whites are racist is not only wrong but dangerous especially when used as support for a racist driven agenda against whites from poc

Citation?

Where do you think this author came from. All this garbage is being driven out of liberal college and universities with x studies departments and liberal white guilt folks in psychology, sociology and other departments

You have to be living under a rock to not understand what the end game is here. The fact that reparations is getting steam in certain quarters, the fact that open POC racists and benders of history are getting awards from dumb woke organizations.

Just google I'm talking about folks like Nikole Hannah Jones, the whole BLM movement and the people behind it, the shard leftward embarrassment turn of the NYT over the past year, Ibram X. Kendi etc

There are plenty of crazies on the right but the mainstream left keeps amplifying theirs

Do you think that black lives matter?

How do you want to address systemic racism in our country? In our schools?

Yes black lives matter . Black Lives Matter, a young adult male is tens of thousands more times likely to be killed by another young black male instead of a cop but that doesn't fit the bs BLM the organization is peddling

You can fix systemic racism in the country and schools in the same way that their has progress with LGBT. By having people of different races and cultures interacting and talking to each other. By calling out actual racism and ostracizing people who actively practice it.

At the same time, you can help fix systemic racism throughout the country and schools through personal choices that don't reinforce negative stereotypes. By having more URM intact families, by encouraging and demanding mature behavior, being prepared for school by building up hard work, personal responsibility, graduating high school, getting a job/college, marriage and then kids in that order. By removing the term "Acting white" and replacing it with "acting responsible".

So you want to “wait” until black parole stop killing each other before you stop systematic racism?

You do realize there are a multitude of efforts to stop black on black crime. But that doesn’t fit into your narrative.

The idea is to do both those things concurrently.

It’s hard to have intact families when you are 7x more likely in Bethesda Maryland to have cops pull you over if you are black. Imagine how bad it is in less educated police forces.

It would also be easier to accomplish these things if black families had the same access to housing and the same low interest rate.

Not to mention drugs are tested on white people mostly do black people die of all diseases at a higher rate due to systematic racism in drug testing. (They have only been testing on women for something like 50 years)

Everything needs to happen together not consecutively.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:“ What? No it doesn't! You think that the only racism that's real racism is intentional and malicious? That's obviously not the only kind-- willful and intentional racism is probably a pretty small sliver of racism these days. That doesn't make unintended racism "not real racism," though. Is this why people freak out about being called racist-- you honestly think the only meaning of racist is "I don't like people of color/I proudly admit I think they're inferior to me?"”

We will have to agree to disagree. I agree that the unintentional slights and biases should be addressed to help shape a fairer society to live in. I strongly disagree with the premise that we should label those people as racists and think it is counter productive to the goal of working toward change.

Also Diangelo slams the phrase I very much agree with the “you get more flies with honey” approach of winning people to your side and to being open to change.

It’s ok that you are in denial and angry. You’ll get there - it just takes time.

[img]https://www.thwink.com/sustain/glossary/images/CycleOfAcceptance_Diagram.png[/img

Hey, you posted a diagram of the "Cycle of Acceptance" which means that probably you're in therapy and your therapist has talked to you about it! That's great news because you need the help. Now go back and look at the section on Aggression. Think about the things that you've talked about with your therapist when you're feeling aggressive. Reflect on your posts here. Think some more about what you've talked about in your sessions. Maybe call for an early appointment. When you've done those things, then come back and post here. We'll wait ...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wow. So much white fragility. AKA snowflakes.

Put on your big girl panties and read the book. You won’t melt.

It’s not the reading it, it’s the discussing such a loaded topic with coworkers that’s the problem. Do you honestly not see how a white person who disagrees with the book’s premise and says so during the discussion, could be placing themselves in a very precarious situation?

If someone isn’t willing to read a book with an open mind and discuss on any level (even if they disagree), then that person isn’t intellectually curious enough to be in a teaching position.

I’d also be curious why they “disagree with the premise”.

Yup, perfect.

Oh really? What would you say about making The Bell Curve a required reading and discussion, and labeling anyone who balks at it “not open minded and intellectually curious”

Nailed it, PP.

I’d throw in the FBI violent crime statistics for good measure. Let’s really discuss race and hold nothing back.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wow. So much white fragility. AKA snowflakes.

Put on your big girl panties and read the book. You won’t melt.

It’s not the reading it, it’s the discussing such a loaded topic with coworkers that’s the problem. Do you honestly not see how a white person who disagrees with the book’s premise and says so during the discussion, could be placing themselves in a very precarious situation?

If someone isn’t willing to read a book with an open mind and discuss on any level (even if they disagree), then that person isn’t intellectually curious enough to be in a teaching position.

I’d also be curious why they “disagree with the premise”.

Uh, you don't understand the issue, PP. RIF (reading is fundamental). It isn't that the poster is concerned about reading and discussing the book, the poster is concerned about a supervisor hearing the poster's opinion, disagreeing and then penalizing the poster for his/her opinion.

I agree with the poster that this is a great danger. The supervisor could think the book is the greatest truth ever written or the supervisor could think the whole thing is hogwash; either way a subordinate disagreeing with a supervisor's opinion during a book club "discussion" could have negative consequences for the subordinate.

Your simplistic approach shows your immaturity. Try to look outside of yourself a little bit. Once you have a job and experience the work world perhaps your worldview will grow to accept that others can make have opinions that are valuable.

We grownups know how to discuss points from a variety of materials without throwing in opinions. PP can discuss the book without revealing opinions.

If PP doesn’t want to acknowledge that our country, society, and education here in the US has deep racist roots then that’s a different story.

Again, you seem to be coming at this from a place of limited experience. A supervisor who has strong negative feelings about a subordinate could certainly use this little book club as an opportunity to browbeat a staff member. Would the staff member then be able to go to HR to document a hostile workplace? Yes but the staff member would still have gone through the horrible experience.

I hope that OP is not talking about a DMV school system. I cannot imagine any school system in this area that is so remiss that it would allow OP's book club to take place as a mandatory activity for staff members. The potential for blowback onto the school system seems exponential.

PP said it’s PWC

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wow. So much white fragility. AKA snowflakes.

Put on your big girl panties and read the book. You won’t melt.

It’s not the reading it, it’s the discussing such a loaded topic with coworkers that’s the problem. Do you honestly not see how a white person who disagrees with the book’s premise and says so during the discussion, could be placing themselves in a very precarious situation?

If someone isn’t willing to read a book with an open mind and discuss on any level (even if they disagree), then that person isn’t intellectually curious enough to be in a teaching position.

I’d also be curious why they “disagree with the premise”.

Uh, you don't understand the issue, PP. RIF (reading is fundamental). It isn't that the poster is concerned about reading and discussing the book, the poster is concerned about a supervisor hearing the poster's opinion, disagreeing and then penalizing the poster for his/her opinion.

I agree with the poster that this is a great danger. The supervisor could think the book is the greatest truth ever written or the supervisor could think the whole thing is hogwash; either way a subordinate disagreeing with a supervisor's opinion during a book club "discussion" could have negative consequences for the subordinate.

Your simplistic approach shows your immaturity. Try to look outside of yourself a little bit. Once you have a job and experience the work world perhaps your worldview will grow to accept that others can make have opinions that are valuable.

We grownups know how to discuss points from a variety of materials without throwing in opinions. PP can discuss the book without revealing opinions.

If PP doesn’t want to acknowledge that our country, society, and education here in the US has deep racist roots then that’s a different story.

Again, you seem to be coming at this from a place of limited experience. A supervisor who has strong negative feelings about a subordinate could certainly use this little book club as an opportunity to browbeat a staff member. Would the staff member then be able to go to HR to document a hostile workplace? Yes but the staff member would still have gone through the horrible experience.

I hope that OP is not talking about a DMV school system. I cannot imagine any school system in this area that is so remiss that it would allow OP's book club to take place as a mandatory activity for staff members. The potential for blowback onto the school system seems exponential.

PP said it’s PWC

Huh. That's not good. I hope they rethink it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Does anyone actually read "required reading" for the workplace?

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wow. So much white fragility. AKA snowflakes.

Put on your big girl panties and read the book. You won’t melt.

It’s not the reading it, it’s the discussing such a loaded topic with coworkers that’s the problem. Do you honestly not see how a white person who disagrees with the book’s premise and says so during the discussion, could be placing themselves in a very precarious situation?

If someone isn’t willing to read a book with an open mind and discuss on any level (even if they disagree), then that person isn’t intellectually curious enough to be in a teaching position.

I’d also be curious why they “disagree with the premise”.

Yup, perfect.

Oh really? What would you say about making The Bell Curve a required reading and discussion, and labeling anyone who balks at it “not open minded and intellectually curious”

Nailed it, PP.

I’d throw in the FBI violent crime statistics for good measure. Let’s really discuss race and hold nothing back.

Just more evidence of the dire effects of systemic racism.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wow. So much white fragility. AKA snowflakes.

Put on your big girl panties and read the book. You won’t melt.

It’s not the reading it, it’s the discussing such a loaded topic with coworkers that’s the problem. Do you honestly not see how a white person who disagrees with the book’s premise and says so during the discussion, could be placing themselves in a very precarious situation?

If someone isn’t willing to read a book with an open mind and discuss on any level (even if they disagree), then that person isn’t intellectually curious enough to be in a teaching position.

I’d also be curious why they “disagree with the premise”.

Uh, you don't understand the issue, PP. RIF (reading is fundamental). It isn't that the poster is concerned about reading and discussing the book, the poster is concerned about a supervisor hearing the poster's opinion, disagreeing and then penalizing the poster for his/her opinion.

I agree with the poster that this is a great danger. The supervisor could think the book is the greatest truth ever written or the supervisor could think the whole thing is hogwash; either way a subordinate disagreeing with a supervisor's opinion during a book club "discussion" could have negative consequences for the subordinate.

Your simplistic approach shows your immaturity. Try to look outside of yourself a little bit. Once you have a job and experience the work world perhaps your worldview will grow to accept that others can make have opinions that are valuable.

We grownups know how to discuss points from a variety of materials without throwing in opinions. PP can discuss the book without revealing opinions.

If PP doesn’t want to acknowledge that our country, society, and education here in the US has deep racist roots then that’s a different story.

Again, you seem to be coming at this from a place of limited experience. A supervisor who has strong negative feelings about a subordinate could certainly use this little book club as an opportunity to browbeat a staff member. Would the staff member then be able to go to HR to document a hostile workplace? Yes but the staff member would still have gone through the horrible experience.

I hope that OP is not talking about a DMV school system. I cannot imagine any school system in this area that is so remiss that it would allow OP's book club to take place as a mandatory activity for staff members. The potential for blowback onto the school system seems exponential.

Browbeat a known racist? I’d be ok with that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:She should have been sjw autocorrect. And to pp unconscious bias is a lot different than active racisim

I will actually throw y'all a bone that unconscious bias is an issue due to the fact that there are racial stereotypes based on some truths but become an issue and racist when applied to a situation without actually evaluating it first

I would support having a conversation on the last paragraph but a book that starts from a false premise of all whites are racist is not only wrong but dangerous especially when used as support for a racist driven agenda against whites from poc

Citation?

Where do you think this author came from. All this garbage is being driven out of liberal college and universities with x studies departments and liberal white guilt folks in psychology, sociology and other departments

You have to be living under a rock to not understand what the end game is here. The fact that reparations is getting steam in certain quarters, the fact that open POC racists and benders of history are getting awards from dumb woke organizations.

Just google I'm talking about folks like Nikole Hannah Jones, the whole BLM movement and the people behind it, the shard leftward embarrassment turn of the NYT over the past year, Ibram X. Kendi etc

There are plenty of crazies on the right but the mainstream left keeps amplifying theirs

Do you think that black lives matter?

How do you want to address systemic racism in our country? In our schools?

Yes black lives matter . Black Lives Matter, a young adult male is tens of thousands more times likely to be killed by another young black male instead of a cop but that doesn't fit the bs BLM the organization is peddling

You can fix systemic racism in the country and schools in the same way that their has progress with LGBT. By having people of different races and cultures interacting and talking to each other. By calling out actual racism and ostracizing people who actively practice it.

At the same time, you can help fix systemic racism throughout the country and schools through personal choices that don't reinforce negative stereotypes. By having more URM intact families, by encouraging and demanding mature behavior, being prepared for school by building up hard work, personal responsibility, graduating high school, getting a job/college, marriage and then kids in that order. By removing the term "Acting white" and replacing it with "acting responsible".

So you don’t even know what systemic racist is...