MCPS Boundary Study Meeting Tonight (12/11) at Julius West @ 7pm

[Anonymous]

You know what? Sometimes it simply doesn't make sense for kids to go to the closest school to them.

Take RCES (our school). It's at 150% capacity. Kentlands & Lakelands community cohesion will do just fine when 300 kids are moved over to Dufief and it'll mean kids won't be going to a massively overcrowded school.

I really don't understand the insane upset over this study. We have lots of things we SHOULD be getting upset at MCPS over--like the obsession with Chromebooks and the paltry science/social studies curricula. Let's focus on those things, rather than a boundary study that hasn't even produced an output yet.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I do not understand why this is so difficult for people.

-White and Asian kids do just as well academically regardless of the SES or racial demo of a school. If anything, being in a higher FARMs demo would make it easier for them to get into elite schools.

-Studies show White kids in particular actually benefit the most from being in SES and racially diverse schools. Go figure. Most white kids in America go to deeply segregated schools that does not reflect the world they will deal with when they become an adult.

-Residents are entitled to free public school, but they are not entitled to a particular school. If parents have a problem with this, they can do like the rest of white americans and can isolate their kids in a private school.

-You are free to pay for specialized enrichment activities for your child on your own dime.

Don't let your fear of brown and black people and your perception of their respective "cultures" blind you from basic facts.

My UMC kids are at two different DCC high schools. I would send them again, no regrets, but please do share these studies that show "white" students benefit from schools with racial and SES diversity. To my knowledge there are no good studies that show this. What are they measuring? School performance? I think there are benefits, but they are not things easily quantifiable.

Well they certainly aren't hurt by it. So all this fuss about mixing with black and brown kids has much less to do with academic performance and more to do with unsubstantiated "beliefs". It would be nice to see studies proving why we should *not* work to integrate both racially and SES.


White students’ test scores don’t drop when they go to schools with large numbers of black and Latino students.

https://nces.ed.gov/nationsreportcard/subject/studies/pdf/school_composition_and_the_bw_achievement_gap_2015.pdf

So, you are proposing massive changes because it will hugely benefit Hispanic and Black kids but as for White kids, the only explanation is that they aren't hurt by it. Basically White kids don't benefit anything from this BS except long rides and terrible school culture.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You know what? Sometimes it simply doesn't make sense for kids to go to the closest school to them.

Take RCES (our school). It's at 150% capacity. Kentlands & Lakelands community cohesion will do just fine when 300 kids are moved over to Dufief and it'll mean kids won't be going to a massively overcrowded school.

I really don't understand the insane upset over this study. We have lots of things we SHOULD be getting upset at MCPS over--like the obsession with Chromebooks and the paltry science/social studies curricula. Let's focus on those things, rather than a boundary study that hasn't even produced an output yet.

So much this. But the Chicken Littles (or is it Henny Penny? I can never keep them straight) are out in force.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I do not understand why this is so difficult for people.

-White and Asian kids do just as well academically regardless of the SES or racial demo of a school. If anything, being in a higher FARMs demo would make it easier for them to get into elite schools.

-Studies show White kids in particular actually benefit the most from being in SES and racially diverse schools. Go figure. Most white kids in America go to deeply segregated schools that does not reflect the world they will deal with when they become an adult.

-Residents are entitled to free public school, but they are not entitled to a particular school. If parents have a problem with this, they can do like the rest of white americans and can isolate their kids in a private school.

-You are free to pay for specialized enrichment activities for your child on your own dime.

Don't let your fear of brown and black people and your perception of their respective "cultures" blind you from basic facts.

My UMC kids are at two different DCC high schools. I would send them again, no regrets, but please do share these studies that show "white" students benefit from schools with racial and SES diversity. To my knowledge there are no good studies that show this. What are they measuring? School performance? I think there are benefits, but they are not things easily quantifiable.

Well they certainly aren't hurt by it. So all this fuss about mixing with black and brown kids has much less to do with academic performance and more to do with unsubstantiated "beliefs". It would be nice to see studies proving why we should *not* work to integrate both racially and SES.


White students’ test scores don’t drop when they go to schools with large numbers of black and Latino students.

https://nces.ed.gov/nationsreportcard/subject/studies/pdf/school_composition_and_the_bw_achievement_gap_2015.pdf

This subject has little to do with "evidence." I think people will always find a reason as to why we shouldn't seek to find income class and racial balance in schools. The "inconvenience" of busing or not going to the closet school. Concerns regarding peer groups and lack of enrichment activities or advanced classes. If you need a reason, you will find one.

What would be refreshing is if folks were honest. The concern here for those opposed to what MCPS is attempting to do is regarding of the "culture" of lower income black and brown communities. I don't say this to label anyone who holds these concerns are racist. If you have an honest conversation with black and brown families from higher incomes, they will likely hold similar concerns. My only request is that you vigorously challenge them.

How does it really hurt your child to have a greater mix of kids from different incomes and ethnic backgrounds? Is there evidence that shows it leads to negative outcomes? Does it hurt their chances into getting to their college of choice?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I do not understand why this is so difficult for people.

-White and Asian kids do just as well academically regardless of the SES or racial demo of a school. If anything, being in a higher FARMs demo would make it easier for them to get into elite schools.

-Studies show White kids in particular actually benefit the most from being in SES and racially diverse schools. Go figure. Most white kids in America go to deeply segregated schools that does not reflect the world they will deal with when they become an adult.

-Residents are entitled to free public school, but they are not entitled to a particular school. If parents have a problem with this, they can do like the rest of white americans and can isolate their kids in a private school.

-You are free to pay for specialized enrichment activities for your child on your own dime.

Don't let your fear of brown and black people and your perception of their respective "cultures" blind you from basic facts.

My UMC kids are at two different DCC high schools. I would send them again, no regrets, but please do share these studies that show "white" students benefit from schools with racial and SES diversity. To my knowledge there are no good studies that show this. What are they measuring? School performance? I think there are benefits, but they are not things easily quantifiable.

Well they certainly aren't hurt by it. So all this fuss about mixing with black and brown kids has much less to do with academic performance and more to do with unsubstantiated "beliefs". It would be nice to see studies proving why we should *not* work to integrate both racially and SES.


White students’ test scores don’t drop when they go to schools with large numbers of black and Latino students.

https://nces.ed.gov/nationsreportcard/subject/studies/pdf/school_composition_and_the_bw_achievement_gap_2015.pdf

So, you are proposing massive changes because it will hugely benefit Hispanic and Black kids but as for White kids, the only explanation is that they aren't hurt by it. Basically White kids don't benefit anything from this BS except long rides and terrible school culture.

Interesting takeaway.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I do not understand why this is so difficult for people.

-White and Asian kids do just as well academically regardless of the SES or racial demo of a school. If anything, being in a higher FARMs demo would make it easier for them to get into elite schools.

-Studies show White kids in particular actually benefit the most from being in SES and racially diverse schools. Go figure. Most white kids in America go to deeply segregated schools that does not reflect the world they will deal with when they become an adult.

-Residents are entitled to free public school, but they are not entitled to a particular school. If parents have a problem with this, they can do like the rest of white americans and can isolate their kids in a private school.

-You are free to pay for specialized enrichment activities for your child on your own dime.

Don't let your fear of brown and black people and your perception of their respective "cultures" blind you from basic facts.

My UMC kids are at two different DCC high schools. I would send them again, no regrets, but please do share these studies that show "white" students benefit from schools with racial and SES diversity. To my knowledge there are no good studies that show this. What are they measuring? School performance? I think there are benefits, but they are not things easily quantifiable.

Well they certainly aren't hurt by it. So all this fuss about mixing with black and brown kids has much less to do with academic performance and more to do with unsubstantiated "beliefs". It would be nice to see studies proving why we should *not* work to integrate both racially and SES.


White students’ test scores don’t drop when they go to schools with large numbers of black and Latino students.

https://nces.ed.gov/nationsreportcard/subject/studies/pdf/school_composition_and_the_bw_achievement_gap_2015.pdf

This subject has little to do with "evidence." I think people will always find a reason as to why we shouldn't seek to find income class and racial balance in schools. The "inconvenience" of busing or not going to the closet school. Concerns regarding peer groups and lack of enrichment activities or advanced classes. If you need a reason, you will find one.

What would be refreshing is if folks were honest. The concern here for those opposed to what MCPS is attempting to do is regarding of the "culture" of lower income black and brown communities. I don't say this to label anyone who holds these concerns are racist. If you have an honest conversation with black and brown families from higher incomes, they will likely hold similar concerns. My only request is that you vigorously challenge them.

How does it really hurt your child to have a greater mix of kids from different incomes and ethnic backgrounds? Is there evidence that shows it leads to negative outcomes? Does it hurt their chances into getting to their college of choice?

Years after MCPS does this many of these rabid posters will come to realize this was for the greater good and didn't negatively impact their children at all. In fact, in many cases exposing them to kids from different backgrounds will build greater understanding and compassion. For example, you only have to remember the number racial incidents that happen just at the W's every year to see the benefit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I do not understand why this is so difficult for people.

-White and Asian kids do just as well academically regardless of the SES or racial demo of a school. If anything, being in a higher FARMs demo would make it easier for them to get into elite schools.

-Studies show White kids in particular actually benefit the most from being in SES and racially diverse schools. Go figure. Most white kids in America go to deeply segregated schools that does not reflect the world they will deal with when they become an adult.

-Residents are entitled to free public school, but they are not entitled to a particular school. If parents have a problem with this, they can do like the rest of white americans and can isolate their kids in a private school.

-You are free to pay for specialized enrichment activities for your child on your own dime.

Don't let your fear of brown and black people and your perception of their respective "cultures" blind you from basic facts.

My UMC kids are at two different DCC high schools. I would send them again, no regrets, but please do share these studies that show "white" students benefit from schools with racial and SES diversity. To my knowledge there are no good studies that show this. What are they measuring? School performance? I think there are benefits, but they are not things easily quantifiable.

Well they certainly aren't hurt by it. So all this fuss about mixing with black and brown kids has much less to do with academic performance and more to do with unsubstantiated "beliefs". It would be nice to see studies proving why we should *not* work to integrate both racially and SES.


White students’ test scores don’t drop when they go to schools with large numbers of black and Latino students.

https://nces.ed.gov/nationsreportcard/subject/studies/pdf/school_composition_and_the_bw_achievement_gap_2015.pdf

So, you are proposing massive changes because it will hugely benefit Hispanic and Black kids but as for White kids, the only explanation is that they aren't hurt by it. Basically White kids don't benefit anything from this BS except long rides and terrible school culture.

Ignoring your arrogance and hyperbolic claims of cross country bus rides, if we accept the bare minimum fact that white kids aren't hurt by integration policies, but low income black and Latino (or other) kids see greater benefits (relative be being in a school concentrated with high poverty), why would this be a problem?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I do not understand why this is so difficult for people.

-White and Asian kids do just as well academically regardless of the SES or racial demo of a school. If anything, being in a higher FARMs demo would make it easier for them to get into elite schools.

-Studies show White kids in particular actually benefit the most from being in SES and racially diverse schools. Go figure. Most white kids in America go to deeply segregated schools that does not reflect the world they will deal with when they become an adult.

-Residents are entitled to free public school, but they are not entitled to a particular school. If parents have a problem with this, they can do like the rest of white americans and can isolate their kids in a private school.

-You are free to pay for specialized enrichment activities for your child on your own dime.

Don't let your fear of brown and black people and your perception of their respective "cultures" blind you from basic facts.

My UMC kids are at two different DCC high schools. I would send them again, no regrets, but please do share these studies that show "white" students benefit from schools with racial and SES diversity. To my knowledge there are no good studies that show this. What are they measuring? School performance? I think there are benefits, but they are not things easily quantifiable.

Well they certainly aren't hurt by it. So all this fuss about mixing with black and brown kids has much less to do with academic performance and more to do with unsubstantiated "beliefs". It would be nice to see studies proving why we should *not* work to integrate both racially and SES.


White students’ test scores don’t drop when they go to schools with large numbers of black and Latino students.

https://nces.ed.gov/nationsreportcard/subject/studies/pdf/school_composition_and_the_bw_achievement_gap_2015.pdf

This subject has little to do with "evidence." I think people will always find a reason as to why we shouldn't seek to find income class and racial balance in schools. The "inconvenience" of busing or not going to the closet school. Concerns regarding peer groups and lack of enrichment activities or advanced classes. If you need a reason, you will find one.

What would be refreshing is if folks were honest. The concern here for those opposed to what MCPS is attempting to do is regarding of the "culture" of lower income black and brown communities. I don't say this to label anyone who holds these concerns are racist. If you have an honest conversation with black and brown families from higher incomes, they will likely hold similar concerns. My only request is that you vigorously challenge them.

How does it really hurt your child to have a greater mix of kids from different incomes and ethnic backgrounds? Is there evidence that shows it leads to negative outcomes? Does it hurt their chances into getting to their college of choice?

I don't think it's a stretch to be worried that having your kid in an environment with a larger number of kids who perhaps are not as academically motivated will impact your child. I want my kids to not only go to college, but be surrounded by as many students as possible with similar goals. Has nothing to do with skin color or ethnicity. And I would argue that MoCo schools are leaps and bounds ahead of most schools in this country when it comes to diversity. Yes, even the "W" schools are almost all only 50-60% white. I grew up in NJ, and my school was 100% white. There might be more minority students there now, but it is still very homogeneous. Same with New England and large swaths of the Mid-West. This idea that some schools here are "lily white" is ridiculous. My kids go to a middle school in a "W" cluster, and you look at a yearbook--it is highly diverse!

[Anonymous]

I share the BOE's concerns regarding the lack of diversity and need to address the segregated schools throughout the county. Where I think the BOE/MCPS and allies of redistricting are being disingenuous is that this current county wide study/analysis only makes sense if comprehensive boundary changes are considered and eventually adopted. The county is too big and too segregated to think you can make any real change without making modifications to significant changes to boundaries or how school enrollment is managed. If the Board/MCPS is just looking to make marginal, common sense, and incremental changes that will aid in addressing some of the diversity issues (See Garrett Park/Kensington), you really don't need this type of study.

So while I disagree with MoCo folks that are against boundary changes, I completely understand their frustrations because they/we are either being lied to and/or this entire process is being mismanaged. You cannot realistically address decades of community and school segregation by simply moving around a few lines on a piece of paper.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I share the BOE's concerns regarding the lack of diversity and need to address the segregated schools throughout the county. Where I think the BOE/MCPS and allies of redistricting are being disingenuous is that this current county wide study/analysis only makes sense if comprehensive boundary changes are considered and eventually adopted. The county is too big and too segregated to think you can make any real change without making modifications to significant changes to boundaries or how school enrollment is managed. If the Board/MCPS is just looking to make marginal, common sense, and incremental changes that will aid in addressing some of the diversity issues (See Garrett Park/Kensington), you really don't need this type of study.

So while I disagree with MoCo folks that are against boundary changes, I completely understand their frustrations because they/we are either being lied to and/or this entire process is being mismanaged. You cannot realistically address decades of community and school segregation by simply moving around a few lines on a piece of paper.

I think any parent who has had kids in MCPS these past 10 years feels this way. So much is mismanaged in MCPS, and this whole thing seems no difference. And, parents have been lied to by the BOE/MCPS leadership often, so there is incredible frustration.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I do not understand why this is so difficult for people.

-White and Asian kids do just as well academically regardless of the SES or racial demo of a school. If anything, being in a higher FARMs demo would make it easier for them to get into elite schools.

-Studies show White kids in particular actually benefit the most from being in SES and racially diverse schools. Go figure. Most white kids in America go to deeply segregated schools that does not reflect the world they will deal with when they become an adult.

-Residents are entitled to free public school, but they are not entitled to a particular school. If parents have a problem with this, they can do like the rest of white americans and can isolate their kids in a private school.

-You are free to pay for specialized enrichment activities for your child on your own dime.

Don't let your fear of brown and black people and your perception of their respective "cultures" blind you from basic facts.

My UMC kids are at two different DCC high schools. I would send them again, no regrets, but please do share these studies that show "white" students benefit from schools with racial and SES diversity. To my knowledge there are no good studies that show this. What are they measuring? School performance? I think there are benefits, but they are not things easily quantifiable.

Well they certainly aren't hurt by it. So all this fuss about mixing with black and brown kids has much less to do with academic performance and more to do with unsubstantiated "beliefs". It would be nice to see studies proving why we should *not* work to integrate both racially and SES.


White students’ test scores don’t drop when they go to schools with large numbers of black and Latino students.

https://nces.ed.gov/nationsreportcard/subject/studies/pdf/school_composition_and_the_bw_achievement_gap_2015.pdf

This subject has little to do with "evidence." I think people will always find a reason as to why we shouldn't seek to find income class and racial balance in schools. The "inconvenience" of busing or not going to the closet school. Concerns regarding peer groups and lack of enrichment activities or advanced classes. If you need a reason, you will find one.

What would be refreshing is if folks were honest. The concern here for those opposed to what MCPS is attempting to do is regarding of the "culture" of lower income black and brown communities. I don't say this to label anyone who holds these concerns are racist. If you have an honest conversation with black and brown families from higher incomes, they will likely hold similar concerns. My only request is that you vigorously challenge them.

How does it really hurt your child to have a greater mix of kids from different incomes and ethnic backgrounds? Is there evidence that shows it leads to negative outcomes? Does it hurt their chances into getting to their college of choice?

It does lead to negative academic outcomes if the educational standard has to be lowered to accommodate majority of the students in the classroom. It's hard to believe that a richer social experience will lead to better understanding in English or math. I have many colleagues from Europe or Asia countries who grew up in non-diverse environment, whom I don't feel any less open-minded than others. Many have quite impressive subject matter knowledge. Also, Maryland Report Card has student performance statistics for every school. The data don't support that greater diversity leads to greater academic outcome even excluding FARM students.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:But that doesn’t mean they need a countywide redistricting based especially on diversity.

I’m all for switching boundaries for utilization.

Good news! There are no plans for "a countywide redistricting based especially on diversity." None. No plans. NO. PLANS.

If no plan to address more than utilization, opening up the space of under-capacity schools to out-of-boundary students can be done very easily and cheaply. the majority don't against that. Bottom line, there were never strong objections to where BOE decided to locate special programs to attract more voluntary long bus ride. Tax-payers should be given a choice if they prefer proximity over diversity.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
I don't think it's a stretch to be worried that having your kid in an environment with a larger number of kids who perhaps are not as academically motivated will impact your child. I want my kids to not only go to college, but be surrounded by as many students as possible with similar goals. Has nothing to do with skin color or ethnicity. And I would argue that MoCo schools are leaps and bounds ahead of most schools in this country when it comes to diversity. Yes, even the "W" schools are almost all only 50-60% white. I grew up in NJ, and my school was 100% white. There might be more minority students there now, but it is still very homogeneous. Same with New England and large swaths of the Mid-West. This idea that some schools here are "lily white" is ridiculous. My kids go to a middle school in a "W" cluster, and you look at a yearbook--it is highly diverse!

Really? I don't want my kids to grow up in such a small bubble. And I'm not worried that maybe, if they go to school with kids who don't go to college, they won't go to college either.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:But that doesn’t mean they need a countywide redistricting based especially on diversity.

I’m all for switching boundaries for utilization.

Good news! There are no plans for "a countywide redistricting based especially on diversity." None. No plans. NO. PLANS.

If no plan to address more than utilization, opening up the space of under-capacity schools to out-of-boundary students can be done very easily and cheaply. the majority don't against that. Bottom line, there were never strong objections to where BOE decided to locate special programs to attract more voluntary long bus ride. Tax-payers should be given a choice if they prefer proximity over diversity.

I disagree. If that were true, people wouldn't already be in a total tizzy about the possibility of being reassigned to Crown HS - a high school that doesn't even exist yet.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I do not understand why this is so difficult for people.

-White and Asian kids do just as well academically regardless of the SES or racial demo of a school. If anything, being in a higher FARMs demo would make it easier for them to get into elite schools.

-Studies show White kids in particular actually benefit the most from being in SES and racially diverse schools. Go figure. Most white kids in America go to deeply segregated schools that does not reflect the world they will deal with when they become an adult.

-Residents are entitled to free public school, but they are not entitled to a particular school. If parents have a problem with this, they can do like the rest of white americans and can isolate their kids in a private school.

-You are free to pay for specialized enrichment activities for your child on your own dime.

Don't let your fear of brown and black people and your perception of their respective "cultures" blind you from basic facts.

My UMC kids are at two different DCC high schools. I would send them again, no regrets, but please do share these studies that show "white" students benefit from schools with racial and SES diversity. To my knowledge there are no good studies that show this. What are they measuring? School performance? I think there are benefits, but they are not things easily quantifiable.

Well they certainly aren't hurt by it. So all this fuss about mixing with black and brown kids has much less to do with academic performance and more to do with unsubstantiated "beliefs". It would be nice to see studies proving why we should *not* work to integrate both racially and SES.


White students’ test scores don’t drop when they go to schools with large numbers of black and Latino students.

https://nces.ed.gov/nationsreportcard/subject/studies/pdf/school_composition_and_the_bw_achievement_gap_2015.pdf

This subject has little to do with "evidence." I think people will always find a reason as to why we shouldn't seek to find income class and racial balance in schools. The "inconvenience" of busing or not going to the closet school. Concerns regarding peer groups and lack of enrichment activities or advanced classes. If you need a reason, you will find one.

What would be refreshing is if folks were honest. The concern here for those opposed to what MCPS is attempting to do is regarding of the "culture" of lower income black and brown communities. I don't say this to label anyone who holds these concerns are racist. If you have an honest conversation with black and brown families from higher incomes, they will likely hold similar concerns. My only request is that you vigorously challenge them.

How does it really hurt your child to have a greater mix of kids from different incomes and ethnic backgrounds? Is there evidence that shows it leads to negative outcomes? Does it hurt their chances into getting to their college of choice?

I don't think it's a stretch to be worried that having your kid in an environment with a larger number of kids who perhaps are not as academically motivated will impact your child. I want my kids to not only go to college, but be surrounded by as many students as possible with similar goals. Has nothing to do with skin color or ethnicity. And I would argue that MoCo schools are leaps and bounds ahead of most schools in this country when it comes to diversity. Yes, even the "W" schools are almost all only 50-60% white. I grew up in NJ, and my school was 100% white. There might be more minority students there now, but it is still very homogeneous. Same with New England and large swaths of the Mid-West. This idea that some schools here are "lily white" is ridiculous. My kids go to a middle school in a "W" cluster, and you look at a yearbook--it is highly diverse!

So you believe FARMs kids are mostly academically unmotivated and lack goals for themselves?

its not like these changes will result in white and asian kids in a low income concentrated school. Why is it so important for your kids to have an entire school with the same academic peer group? Are there studies that show this is essential positive outcomes or that not being a similar cohort harms white and asian kids?

What it sounds like you guys want is a private school or test-in magnets to isolate yourselves.