Mcps has a dropout problem

[Anonymous]

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Are they not?

Are you saying other kids' problems are your problem? or my problem? For the former - go with it. For the latter - who are you to decide that?

The voice of reality.

Well, if you agree they are your problem, I don't disagree. Why don't you go ahead and deal with them?

As for "my problem", I don't agree with you on that. So let's just wait until we get that straightened out - which I'm in no rush.

Let's agree on what we agree on: they are your problem, you are not doing a good job solving those and should be blamed!

If you'd instead prefer to pay to keep them in jail as adults, then that's your preference, I guess, though it's a terrible return on investment.

No. I prefer to blame you for their problem because apparently you (if you are the PP) admit it is your problem.

Just stating a simple and very logical conclusion based on your previous choice.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Well over half are either in ESOL or are Hispanic https://wtop.com/montgomery-county/2019/07/montgomery-co-public-schools-have-a-dropout-problem-heres-why/

Well I guest the response to this topic says it: who cares?

I am not being sarcastic. I truly believe that if these students and/or their families do not care, others should not (yes, SHOULD not - or at least PUBLIC RESOURCES should not be used to deal with this).

They care, but often they are facing very immediate economic needs that can’t wait two to three years to address. A third income earner can make the difference between rent or eviction, vegetables and fruit or malnutrition. This was not an unusual pattern in white immigrant families two generations ago. My XH’s grandmother left school at 15 to work FT in a store. Her sacrifice made it possible for the family to survive and her younger siblings to graduate HS. T

Many schools provide three meals to kids on FARMs.

But households also include kids too young for school (and therefore FARMs) and adults too old. There are students who bring home part of their school lunch to feed younger siblings.

I've never seen that and I've been in high-FARMs high schools for the bulk of my career. Maybe younger kids do that.

makes sense, however

Not really. The majority of kids too young to be in school were born here, so Mom has both a WIC card and a SNAP card. For those families totally illegal, there are many, many nonprofits and food pantries. No babies are starving back at the house.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Not really. The majority of kids too young to be in school were born here, so Mom has both a WIC card and a SNAP card. For those families totally illegal, there are many, many nonprofits and food pantries. No babies are starving back at the house.

How I wish that people would realize that there is a LOT of room between "starving" and "having reliable access to a sufficient quantity of affordable, nutritious food".

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

No. I prefer to blame you for their problem because apparently you (if you are the PP) admit it is your problem.

Just stating a simple and very logical conclusion based on your previous choice.

Eh. It's your problem too, whether or not you agree. Yours, mine, everybody's who lives in the society we live in. Or, really, the planet we live on.

[Anonymous]

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Don't be intentionally obtuse. This thread is not about meals at school; MCPS already provides free or reduced price school meals. It's about whether schools have a responsibility to address outside economic factors that impact the dropout rate.

Should schools address factors that affect children's education? Yup, they sure should.

I get the feeling that you are writing in generalities to avoid admitting that your position is ill-conceived.

Great. So if there's a homeless kid, the school should provide housing?

If a kid is being abused, a couple of teachers, the janitor, and the vice principal should go arrest the parent?

Of course not. If someone at the school is made aware of one of those conditions, they should refer the matter to the appropriate agency that has expertise providing the required services.

Do you disagree with this?

Different poster. Some home problems are relatively easy to address via a school community. Some districts find having a food pantry or clothing closet in schools helpful. Others put a clinic for vaccinations and urgent care level emergencies. My mom taught in a school that opened the computer lab to parents and other household members that wanted to do GED or job search. I’d love my school to offer all of those. Because the sooner kids’ basic needs are met, the dinner they are available for learning. Why send basic things through two to three more levels of bureaucracy when we can do it in house?

Because when you stack 4 or 5 "basic" things on top of one another, it becomes a huge undertaking. And bet addressed by teh appropriate agency, not the school.

It doesn’t have to be the final stop. Just a first stop. You expect the school nurse to render first aid, right? Why not have the equivalent for a winter coat or dinner until the other services can be arranged?

That is the school nurse's actual job to render first aid. Would you expect the school nurse to be in the health room all day dealing with sick and injured kids and also popping out to man the school's clothing closet whenever anyone comes to "shop" in it? Or volunteer her time in the evenings to serve dinner to families?

All of these services take time and manpower. I teach in a high FARMS school. We don't have any extraneous people sitting around available to undertake running a food pantry, clothing closet, urgent care, or job training for parents. Our school is lucky to have Linkages to Learning on site and they do as much of this kind of stuff as they can but it's their full time job and they have specific funding and employees for it. Having school staff run these kinds of services means that they aren't available to do their actual jobs.

Linkages to Learning has hosted computer skills classes for parents in our computer lab in both English and Spanish. They were sparsely attended. They also won't be able to continue because our computer lab is being turned into a classroom due to a need for more classroom space.

There's a perception out there that schools should be taking on more, more and more. The thing is, it can't be an "and" situation, it has to be an "or" situation. Which would you prefer? School staff coordinating and running an urgent care OR providing interventions to students who need support? School staff coordinating and running food pantries and clothing closets OR prepping materials for an engaging science lesson? Where do you think this time, money and staffing should come from? We barely keep our heads above water as it is doing our primary jobs (which of course means more than what our job description actually entails), but do you really think "other duties as assigned" should mean running a food pantry, clothing closet, urgent care, or job training for parents, and that would somehow *not* impact student instructional time?

Resources are limited and the ones that exist in schools are already strained to capacity. You can't keep adding and adding responsibilities to schools and not expect things to boil over. We're not magicians. If you think we *should* be able to take these things on and also do our jobs, please come sub or shadow in a high needs school for at least a week to see what really goes on vs. what you are assuming goes on in your head. We're also not martyrs and can't be expected to take on all of society's woes and eschew our own families, health and sanity.

Of course it would be lovely if schools could be one stop shops for everything the community needs. There are a lot of things in this world that would be lovely but are not logistically possible for one reason or another.

I would love to hear how you actually think this would work logistically. Please elaborate. You can't say parent volunteers because we don't have those. Not every school has an active PTA and people who are able or willing to volunteer.

Our school PTA is a huge clique and not interested in help. Our school doesn't encourage volunteers. I suggested things like a clothing closet. Many of us have extra kids clothing and its a very simple thing to do. Some of us do have the time and professional background. Reach out and get to know the parents and see who has the skills and knowledge base and willing to help. You rule it out without trying. Our county has a lot of resources but people have to be guided to them. A simple resource guide would even help. Families basic needs have to be met first - food, clothing, shelter, utilities, in order for kids to be able to learn. If a child is hungry, they cannot learn. If a family gets their utilities cut off, the child may not be able to do the homework. You cannot just provide a computer. You have to assist people with accessing what they need. They may need guided to apply for assistance. Some may not be able to read and write in their own language, let alone English.

I'm just going to be a straight shooter.

You're an idiot.

Teachers in high-FARMs schools DO know their students, especially in the elementary setting, as they have them for the majority of the day. Teachers know about wellness programs and social networks to help needy families. Teachers know when to call CPS, when to alert the PPW to make a home visit, when to contact a counselor, and when to simply call the language line to make a phone call home.

But when is enough enough? Many teachers have families and ALL teachers have lives beyond the school day. When people like you INSERT yourself w/o fully understanding the complexities of a high-needs school, you create more harm than good. As it stands now, we CANNOT recruit enough teachers and we CAN'T RETAIN them either. And you, hon, are part of the problem b/c you want us to do more and more and more.

So step away and make yourself feel important elsewhere. Instead of slamming the PTA, if you're so giving, join and make some changes. But I think you'd rather talk than act.

- HS teacher who's only taught in high-FARMs schols

[Anonymous]

Just goes to show that kids of any age that come from disadvantaged background need a different setup in schools (which may effectively mean different schools).
Smaller class sizes, different objectives and a slower pace; wraparound services.
This will mean more taxes, but at least there will be regular schools for regular kids who also need to learn and grow. No they won’t be fine no matter what. If you kill their love of learning by sloooowly teaching them the same stuff, no creativity, no fun, and harsh discipline (because who has the time to explore different approaches to behavior?) and no, these kids won’t be ok.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Just goes to show that kids of any age that come from disadvantaged background need a different setup in schools (which may effectively mean different schools).
Smaller class sizes, different objectives and a slower pace; wraparound services.
This will mean more taxes, but at least there will be regular schools for regular kids who also need to learn and grow. No they won’t be fine no matter what. If you kill their love of learning by sloooowly teaching them the same stuff, no creativity, no fun, and harsh discipline (because who has the time to explore different approaches to behavior?) and no, these kids won’t be ok.

Kids from disadvantaged backgrounds are irregular kids?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Not really. The majority of kids too young to be in school were born here, so Mom has both a WIC card and a SNAP card. For those families totally illegal, there are many, many nonprofits and food pantries. No babies are starving back at the house.

How I wish that people would realize that there is a LOT of room between "starving" and "having reliable access to a sufficient quantity of affordable, nutritious food".

Have you noticed that many Hispanic kids and their moms are over weight? There are too much free unhealthy food in their life!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Not really. The majority of kids too young to be in school were born here, so Mom has both a WIC card and a SNAP card. For those families totally illegal, there are many, many nonprofits and food pantries. No babies are starving back at the house.

How I wish that people would realize that there is a LOT of room between "starving" and "having reliable access to a sufficient quantity of affordable, nutritious food".

Have you noticed that many Hispanic kids and their moms are over weight? There are too much free unhealthy food in their life!

Have you noticed that you are making a whole heck of a lot of assumptions about people and their lives?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well over half are either in ESOL or are Hispanic https://wtop.com/montgomery-county/2019/07/montgomery-co-public-schools-have-a-dropout-problem-heres-why/

Well I guest the response to this topic says it: who cares?

I am not being sarcastic. I truly believe that if these students and/or their families do not care, others should not (yes, SHOULD not - or at least PUBLIC RESOURCES should not be used to deal with this).

They care, but often they are facing very immediate economic needs that can’t wait two to three years to address. A third income earner can make the difference between rent or eviction, vegetables and fruit or malnutrition. This was not an unusual pattern in white immigrant families two generations ago. My XH’s grandmother left school at 15 to work FT in a store. Her sacrifice made it possible for the family to survive and her younger siblings to graduate HS. T

Many schools provide three meals to kids on FARMs.

But households also include kids too young for school (and therefore FARMs) and adults too old. There are students who bring home part of their school lunch to feed younger siblings.

I've never seen that and I've been in high-FARMs high schools for the bulk of my career. Maybe younger kids do that.

makes sense, however

Not really. The majority of kids too young to be in school were born here, so Mom has both a WIC card and a SNAP card. For those families totally illegal, there are many, many nonprofits and food pantries. No babies are starving back at the house.

You have to know how to apply and get those resources and its not that easy. Its a very small amount if its just for the kids and not the adults. You couldn't live off that. There are absolutely kids who starve.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Not really. The majority of kids too young to be in school were born here, so Mom has both a WIC card and a SNAP card. For those families totally illegal, there are many, many nonprofits and food pantries. No babies are starving back at the house.

How I wish that people would realize that there is a LOT of room between "starving" and "having reliable access to a sufficient quantity of affordable, nutritious food".

Have you noticed that many Hispanic kids and their moms are over weight? There are too much free unhealthy food in their life!

Nutritious food is expensive. If they are limited income you go with what is cheap which is higher fat meats and packaged food that is cheaper as it gets subsidized. School breakfasts and lunches are extremely unhealthy.

[Anonymous]

I'm just going to be a straight shooter.

You're an idiot.

Teachers in high-FARMs schools DO know their students, especially in the elementary setting, as they have them for the majority of the day. Teachers know about wellness programs and social networks to help needy families. Teachers know when to call CPS, when to alert the PPW to make a home visit, when to contact a counselor, and when to simply call the language line to make a phone call home.

But when is enough enough? Many teachers have families and ALL teachers have lives beyond the school day. When people like you INSERT yourself w/o fully understanding the complexities of a high-needs school, you create more harm than good. As it stands now, we CANNOT recruit enough teachers and we CAN'T RETAIN them either. And you, hon, are part of the problem b/c you want us to do more and more and more.

So step away and make yourself feel important elsewhere. Instead of slamming the PTA, if you're so giving, join and make some changes. But I think you'd rather talk than act.

- HS teacher who's only taught in high-FARMs schols



Your the idiot. I can tell you at our high farms school the teachers don't know anything about the families and ignore the problems. I did join the PTA, got involved, and got completely blown off. As did many others. Now our PTA is having huge issues because they shut people out but the same people keep running it and ran it into the ground.

PS. I am that social worker who is the one you call. I am the one bringing the kids food, clothing and trying to find the funds or access their insurance to get them the evaluation and services they need. I can also tell you our school has no idea I am a social worker nor would care.

So, HON, you can rant about what others don't do, but some of us are too busy trying to fix the problems you teachers have ignored for years. Its very easy to make a hotline phone call and say how wonderful you are for doing it. Its another story, when you are the one actually fixing it. I cannot tell you how many acting out teenagers I've had on my caseload who can barely read and write, major mental health issues, drug use, that has gotten ignored for years. No one has even given these kids a basic evaluation and ignore their failing test and report cards.

You have the easy job.. if a kid tells you they are going to kill themselves, you can hotline it or call the parents and wash your hands of it. I'm the one convincing the kids to get a mental health evaluation or be hospitalized and taking them to their appointments weekly and finding the money for their medication co-pays.

[Anonymous]

Maybe at the elementary school level you get to know the situations of the FARMS students. However, at middle school and high school the most info we usually get is just baseball card data. It's not really enough info to fully understand what is happening the daily lives of my 130 students each day.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Not really. The majority of kids too young to be in school were born here, so Mom has both a WIC card and a SNAP card. For those families totally illegal, there are many, many nonprofits and food pantries. No babies are starving back at the house.

How I wish that people would realize that there is a LOT of room between "starving" and "having reliable access to a sufficient quantity of affordable, nutritious food".

People do grossly underestimate food insecurity in MoCo. And it’s partly the folks who assume any Black or Brown person with a full shopping card is paying for it with SNAP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Not really. The majority of kids too young to be in school were born here, so Mom has both a WIC card and a SNAP card. For those families totally illegal, there are many, many nonprofits and food pantries. No babies are starving back at the house.

How I wish that people would realize that there is a LOT of room between "starving" and "having reliable access to a sufficient quantity of affordable, nutritious food".

My background in social work and public health says that the statistics used to document “hunger” are highly suspect. If you want society to guarantee high quality, nutritious foods for all three meals because parents won’t make the choices that you would, I guess those kids need to enter the foster care system and get a new mom because we already spend billions paying for those meals multiple times (directly to the family and to the schools).