Mcps has a dropout problem

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If every SJW in MoCo adopts one homeless kid or the unaccompanied illegal immigrant minor, teaches them basic reading and math at home, dresses them with warm coat in winter, provides child care for younger siblings, makes sure them get three meals, and, most importantly, gets them to school on time, MCPS can focus on teaching.

I think we need to end the thread based on this b/c this post says it all!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:School isn't for everyone. If people who aren't interested opt-out, that's fine.

agree

And there are plenty of people who'd rather work with their hands. I think everyone needs basic English and math, but if your chosen profession is hands-on, then an apprenticeship is more important that years and years of schooling.

We need to rethink schools.

- a teacher

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:All in all, I agree those kids may need help, other kids for sure, I am willing to help them and I already do via my taxes, but please leave that outside my child’s school.

This.

Plus, all the waste drives me nuts. It is insane!

We are at a school that provides free breakfast for all kids. Guess how much food ends up in the trash daily. It is ridiculous!

So much easier to waste food and other resources when someone else is paying.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All in all, I agree those kids may need help, other kids for sure, I am willing to help them and I already do via my taxes, but please leave that outside my child’s school.

This.

Plus, all the waste drives me nuts. It is insane!

We are at a school that provides free breakfast for all kids. Guess how much food ends up in the trash daily. It is ridiculous!

So much easier to waste food and other resources when someone else is paying.

So much easier to decide that other kids' problems are someone else's problem.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All in all, I agree those kids may need help, other kids for sure, I am willing to help them and I already do via my taxes, but please leave that outside my child’s school.

This.

Plus, all the waste drives me nuts. It is insane!

We are at a school that provides free breakfast for all kids. Guess how much food ends up in the trash daily. It is ridiculous!

So much easier to waste food and other resources when someone else is paying.

I'm very conservative and I don't necessarily care that MCPS has a drop out problem for low income students. I do however believe that kids shouldn't go hungry because they have dumb parents.

[Anonymous]

I've worked in high FARMs schools and low FARMs schools. The stress teachers and staff deal with in high FARMs schools is unbelievable. The teachers are blamed for students not meeting proficiency. We had supports like snack bags sent home for the weekend, Linkages therapists and case managers on site, a mobile dentist who cleans teeth on site etc. Kids were pulled out of class for these things, and while they are very important, that is time missed from instruction. The neediest kids are pulled the most often.

What happens then is that even though the kids are getting important services, they get even farther behind academically due to the missed class time. These also tend to be kids who are frequently absent as well. Teachers are told they're making excuses during data chats when they explain that the family shares housing with other families and their family shares one bedroom in the house and the new baby keeps the student up all night. Or that they were absent multiple days last week so this week all the services they missed are trying to ensure they see the kid in case they stop coming to school again so they have spent little time inside the classroom. We were told we need to just find a way to make sure they're caught up. Meanwhile this is one student out of twenty something (no reduced class sizes in 3rd-5th in a focus school). Many other students have similar situations but we can't let anyone fall through the cracks. So the teacher gets stressed because it ultimately all comes down on her/him when the student is below grade level. So then the teacher starts resenting the times the student is pulled out of class for services because it just means the student is getting farther and farther behind.

Contrast that with teaching in a low FARMs school where I'm constantly being praised for my data but the truth is that I'm not doing anything special or working even a quarter as hard as I did in the high FARMs school where I was blamed and demoralized for things out of my control. Here I'm being praised for things out of my control (students who come from high SES families) and being made to feel like I single handedly was able to get 90% of my class above grade level when they probably would have achieved the same way with pretty much any teacher in my role. I have time to work with the 10% on grade level and the few below who need more support and don't mind at all when they're pulled out of class because I know I have time to catch them up and it won't mean making a choice between providing a reading intervention to a student who won't move past EMT because he's ESOL level 2 and the special ed team won't acknowledge ESOL students can also have learning disabilities, or administering a mandatory district assessment to a student who was absent when the class took it. I remember the panic I would feel when the Linkages therapist came to pull a kid who was absent 3 days this week already. Of course I knew they needed the service and would never get in the way of that, but I would start panicking about how MAP testing is next week and it will fall on me if the student doesn't make what's deemed as sufficient progress.

I have time now to do all the cutesy fun things that kids love like transforming the classroom into a different theme for the week and having all activities relate to the theme or having the class create and put on a skit for parents to come watch. It's kind of funny to me that now I'm seen as a "good" teacher when at my former school I kept being asked what more I could do to help students achieve proficiency as though if I just put in a smidge more effort the kids with significant needs would just magically get it and achieve proficiency.

My point is that we (admin, central office, the public) have to stop blaming teachers who work in high FARMS schools for what the data looks like and tell them they're making excuses when they point out very real situations that impact students. Of course we can't just throw our hands up and say they come from struggling families and there's nothing we can do about it so the data is what it is. But the way the system works now demoralizes teachers who choose those roles and they are the ones getting burnt out quickly when they are doing the absolute best they can. They need support and acknowledging that the students face serious hardships isn't making excuses--it's acknowledging the reality and we know that trauma impacts learning but we have to pretend it doesn't. MCPS gives very mixed messages about that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I've worked in high FARMs schools and low FARMs schools. The stress teachers and staff deal with in high FARMs schools is unbelievable. The teachers are blamed for students not meeting proficiency. We had supports like snack bags sent home for the weekend, Linkages therapists and case managers on site, a mobile dentist who cleans teeth on site etc. Kids were pulled out of class for these things, and while they are very important, that is time missed from instruction. The neediest kids are pulled the most often.

What happens then is that even though the kids are getting important services, they get even farther behind academically due to the missed class time. These also tend to be kids who are frequently absent as well. Teachers are told they're making excuses during data chats when they explain that the family shares housing with other families and their family shares one bedroom in the house and the new baby keeps the student up all night. Or that they were absent multiple days last week so this week all the services they missed are trying to ensure they see the kid in case they stop coming to school again so they have spent little time inside the classroom. We were told we need to just find a way to make sure they're caught up. Meanwhile this is one student out of twenty something (no reduced class sizes in 3rd-5th in a focus school). Many other students have similar situations but we can't let anyone fall through the cracks. So the teacher gets stressed because it ultimately all comes down on her/him when the student is below grade level. So then the teacher starts resenting the times the student is pulled out of class for services because it just means the student is getting farther and farther behind.

Contrast that with teaching in a low FARMs school where I'm constantly being praised for my data but the truth is that I'm not doing anything special or working even a quarter as hard as I did in the high FARMs school where I was blamed and demoralized for things out of my control. Here I'm being praised for things out of my control (students who come from high SES families) and being made to feel like I single handedly was able to get 90% of my class above grade level when they probably would have achieved the same way with pretty much any teacher in my role. I have time to work with the 10% on grade level and the few below who need more support and don't mind at all when they're pulled out of class because I know I have time to catch them up and it won't mean making a choice between providing a reading intervention to a student who won't move past EMT because he's ESOL level 2 and the special ed team won't acknowledge ESOL students can also have learning disabilities, or administering a mandatory district assessment to a student who was absent when the class took it. I remember the panic I would feel when the Linkages therapist came to pull a kid who was absent 3 days this week already. Of course I knew they needed the service and would never get in the way of that, but I would start panicking about how MAP testing is next week and it will fall on me if the student doesn't make what's deemed as sufficient progress.

I have time now to do all the cutesy fun things that kids love like transforming the classroom into a different theme for the week and having all activities relate to the theme or having the class create and put on a skit for parents to come watch. It's kind of funny to me that now I'm seen as a "good" teacher when at my former school I kept being asked what more I could do to help students achieve proficiency as though if I just put in a smidge more effort the kids with significant needs would just magically get it and achieve proficiency.

My point is that we (admin, central office, the public) have to stop blaming teachers who work in high FARMS schools for what the data looks like and tell them they're making excuses when they point out very real situations that impact students. Of course we can't just throw our hands up and say they come from struggling families and there's nothing we can do about it so the data is what it is. But the way the system works now demoralizes teachers who choose those roles and they are the ones getting burnt out quickly when they are doing the absolute best they can. They need support and acknowledging that the students face serious hardships isn't making excuses--it's acknowledging the reality and we know that trauma impacts learning but we have to pretend it doesn't. MCPS gives very mixed messages about that.

And this is why we’re leaving our high FARMS school.

And, why many middle class families opt out of MCPS when the school’s in their neighborhood become predominantly low income.

This is a minor problem for MCPS and will lead to a continued decline in the school system.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I've worked in high FARMs schools and low FARMs schools. The stress teachers and staff deal with in high FARMs schools is unbelievable. The teachers are blamed for students not meeting proficiency. We had supports like snack bags sent home for the weekend, Linkages therapists and case managers on site, a mobile dentist who cleans teeth on site etc. Kids were pulled out of class for these things, and while they are very important, that is time missed from instruction. The neediest kids are pulled the most often.

What happens then is that even though the kids are getting important services, they get even farther behind academically due to the missed class time. These also tend to be kids who are frequently absent as well. Teachers are told they're making excuses during data chats when they explain that the family shares housing with other families and their family shares one bedroom in the house and the new baby keeps the student up all night. Or that they were absent multiple days last week so this week all the services they missed are trying to ensure they see the kid in case they stop coming to school again so they have spent little time inside the classroom. We were told we need to just find a way to make sure they're caught up. Meanwhile this is one student out of twenty something (no reduced class sizes in 3rd-5th in a focus school). Many other students have similar situations but we can't let anyone fall through the cracks. So the teacher gets stressed because it ultimately all comes down on her/him when the student is below grade level. So then the teacher starts resenting the times the student is pulled out of class for services because it just means the student is getting farther and farther behind.

Contrast that with teaching in a low FARMs school where I'm constantly being praised for my data but the truth is that I'm not doing anything special or working even a quarter as hard as I did in the high FARMs school where I was blamed and demoralized for things out of my control. Here I'm being praised for things out of my control (students who come from high SES families) and being made to feel like I single handedly was able to get 90% of my class above grade level when they probably would have achieved the same way with pretty much any teacher in my role. I have time to work with the 10% on grade level and the few below who need more support and don't mind at all when they're pulled out of class because I know I have time to catch them up and it won't mean making a choice between providing a reading intervention to a student who won't move past EMT because he's ESOL level 2 and the special ed team won't acknowledge ESOL students can also have learning disabilities, or administering a mandatory district assessment to a student who was absent when the class took it. I remember the panic I would feel when the Linkages therapist came to pull a kid who was absent 3 days this week already. Of course I knew they needed the service and would never get in the way of that, but I would start panicking about how MAP testing is next week and it will fall on me if the student doesn't make what's deemed as sufficient progress.

I have time now to do all the cutesy fun things that kids love like transforming the classroom into a different theme for the week and having all activities relate to the theme or having the class create and put on a skit for parents to come watch. It's kind of funny to me that now I'm seen as a "good" teacher when at my former school I kept being asked what more I could do to help students achieve proficiency as though if I just put in a smidge more effort the kids with significant needs would just magically get it and achieve proficiency.

My point is that we (admin, central office, the public) have to stop blaming teachers who work in high FARMS schools for what the data looks like and tell them they're making excuses when they point out very real situations that impact students. Of course we can't just throw our hands up and say they come from struggling families and there's nothing we can do about it so the data is what it is. But the way the system works now demoralizes teachers who choose those roles and they are the ones getting burnt out quickly when they are doing the absolute best they can. They need support and acknowledging that the students face serious hardships isn't making excuses--it's acknowledging the reality and we know that trauma impacts learning but we have to pretend it doesn't. MCPS gives very mixed messages about that.

Oh my gosh that panic when someone comes to pull them out! Yes! I've taught in both types of schools as well and completely agree. Acknowledging the issues doesn't mean we're making excuses. I can't stand administrators like that. I teach elementary school but know of a few of my former students who dropped out of high school due to either getting pregnant or getting a girl pregnant and having to start working full time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I've worked in high FARMs schools and low FARMs schools. The stress teachers and staff deal with in high FARMs schools is unbelievable. The teachers are blamed for students not meeting proficiency. We had supports like snack bags sent home for the weekend, Linkages therapists and case managers on site, a mobile dentist who cleans teeth on site etc. Kids were pulled out of class for these things, and while they are very important, that is time missed from instruction. The neediest kids are pulled the most often.

What happens then is that even though the kids are getting important services, they get even farther behind academically due to the missed class time. These also tend to be kids who are frequently absent as well. Teachers are told they're making excuses during data chats when they explain that the family shares housing with other families and their family shares one bedroom in the house and the new baby keeps the student up all night. Or that they were absent multiple days last week so this week all the services they missed are trying to ensure they see the kid in case they stop coming to school again so they have spent little time inside the classroom. We were told we need to just find a way to make sure they're caught up. Meanwhile this is one student out of twenty something (no reduced class sizes in 3rd-5th in a focus school). Many other students have similar situations but we can't let anyone fall through the cracks. So the teacher gets stressed because it ultimately all comes down on her/him when the student is below grade level. So then the teacher starts resenting the times the student is pulled out of class for services because it just means the student is getting farther and farther behind.

Contrast that with teaching in a low FARMs school where I'm constantly being praised for my data but the truth is that I'm not doing anything special or pworking even a quarter as hard as I did in the high FARMs school where I was blamed and demoralized for things out of my control. Here I'm being praised for things out of my control (students who come from high SES families) and being made to feel like I single handedly was able to get 90% of my class above grade level when they probably would have achieved the same way with pretty much any teacher in my role. I have time to work with the 10% on grade level and the few below who need more support and don't mind at all when they're pulled out of class because I know I have time to catch them up and it won't mean making a choice between providing a reading intervention to a student who won't move past EMT because he's ESOL level 2 and the special ed team won't acknowledge ESOL students can also have learning disabilities, or administering a mandatory district assessment to a student who was absent when the class took it. I remember the panic I would feel when the Linkages therapist came to pull a kid who was absent 3 days this week already. Of course I knew they needed the service and would never get in the way of that, but I would start panicking about how MAP testing is next week and it will fall on me if the student doesn't make what's deemed as sufficient progress.

I have time now to do all the cutesy fun things that kids love like transforming the classroom into a different theme for the week and having all activities relate to the theme or having the class create and put on a skit for parents to come watch. It's kind of funny to me that now I'm seen as a "good" teacher when at my former school I kept being asked what more I could do to help students achieve proficiency as though if I just put in a smidge more effort the kids with significant needs would just magically get it and achieve proficiency.

My point is that we (admin, central office, the public) have to stop blaming teachers who work in high FARMS schools for what the data looks like and tell them they're making excuses when they point out very real situations that impact students. Of course we can't just throw our hands up and say they come from struggling families and there's nothing we can do about it so the data is what it is. But the way the system works now demoralizes teachers who choose those roles and they are the ones getting burnt out quickly when they are doing the absolute best they can. They need support and acknowledging that the students face serious hardships isn't making excuses--it's acknowledging the reality and we know that trauma impacts learning but we have to pretend it doesn't. MCPS gives very mixed messages about that.

Thank you for speaking the truth from your heart!
The Admins in center office in Rockville and the principals should spend at least one week in a focus or title one school at ES level and one week in a HS to teach or work as a sub to interact with student directly.
The students make school, not the other way.
By the way, problems from any students who register at MCPS and spend less than two years here should not be.blamed on MCPS. If they are not interest in school it is their problem. I bet if MCPS offers classes in Sixflags, the attendance could improve a lot.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I've worked in high FARMs schools and low FARMs schools. The stress teachers and staff deal with in high FARMs schools is unbelievable. The teachers are blamed for students not meeting proficiency. We had supports like snack bags sent home for the weekend, Linkages therapists and case managers on site, a mobile dentist who cleans teeth on site etc. Kids were pulled out of class for these things, and while they are very important, that is time missed from instruction. The neediest kids are pulled the most often.

What happens then is that even though the kids are getting important services, they get even farther behind academically due to the missed class time. These also tend to be kids who are frequently absent as well. Teachers are told they're making excuses during data chats when they explain that the family shares housing with other families and their family shares one bedroom in the house and the new baby keeps the student up all night. Or that they were absent multiple days last week so this week all the services they missed are trying to ensure they see the kid in case they stop coming to school again so they have spent little time inside the classroom. We were told we need to just find a way to make sure they're caught up. Meanwhile this is one student out of twenty something (no reduced class sizes in 3rd-5th in a focus school). Many other students have similar situations but we can't let anyone fall through the cracks. So the teacher gets stressed because it ultimately all comes down on her/him when the student is below grade level. So then the teacher starts resenting the times the student is pulled out of class for services because it just means the student is getting farther and farther behind.

Contrast that with teaching in a low FARMs school where I'm constantly being praised for my data but the truth is that I'm not doing anything special or working even a quarter as hard as I did in the high FARMs school where I was blamed and demoralized for things out of my control. Here I'm being praised for things out of my control (students who come from high SES families) and being made to feel like I single handedly was able to get 90% of my class above grade level when they probably would have achieved the same way with pretty much any teacher in my role. I have time to work with the 10% on grade level and the few below who need more support and don't mind at all when they're pulled out of class because I know I have time to catch them up and it won't mean making a choice between providing a reading intervention to a student who won't move past EMT because he's ESOL level 2 and the special ed team won't acknowledge ESOL students can also have learning disabilities, or administering a mandatory district assessment to a student who was absent when the class took it. I remember the panic I would feel when the Linkages therapist came to pull a kid who was absent 3 days this week already. Of course I knew they needed the service and would never get in the way of that, but I would start panicking about how MAP testing is next week and it will fall on me if the student doesn't make what's deemed as sufficient progress.

I have time now to do all the cutesy fun things that kids love like transforming the classroom into a different theme for the week and having all activities relate to the theme or having the class create and put on a skit for parents to come watch. It's kind of funny to me that now I'm seen as a "good" teacher when at my former school I kept being asked what more I could do to help students achieve proficiency as though if I just put in a smidge more effort the kids with significant needs would just magically get it and achieve proficiency.

My point is that we (admin, central office, the public) have to stop blaming teachers who work in high FARMS schools for what the data looks like and tell them they're making excuses when they point out very real situations that impact students. Of course we can't just throw our hands up and say they come from struggling families and there's nothing we can do about it so the data is what it is. But the way the system works now demoralizes teachers who choose those roles and they are the ones getting burnt out quickly when they are doing the absolute best they can. They need support and acknowledging that the students face serious hardships isn't making excuses--it's acknowledging the reality and we know that trauma impacts learning but we have to pretend it doesn't. MCPS gives very mixed messages about that.

Yes! We got multiple trainings on how trauma impacts the brain and learning. One was led by a central office staff member. It was heartbreaking. At the end of the training from the central office staff member we watched uplifting videos from schools out West that saw great change by implementing trauma informed teaching practices including a therapist on staff, a leadership teacher who taught an extra special on how students can become leaders, and a mindfulness coach whose job it is to man a space where upset or angry students can go to refocus themselves.

So the video turns off and we feel uplifted and we're asked if we have any questions. We raise our hands and ask if we are going to get funding for additional personnel to be able to have those kinds of positions at our school. "No, there's no funding for that. It would be great if schools could figure out how existing personnel can share wearing those hats in your building. " Oh. So these schools have additional resources and personnel to carry out these positions, but we're expected to figure out a way to make it work without those extra resources or personnel. But never fear! Every team in our school gets a Sanford Harmony kit that we need to explore and then figure out how to embed into our already packed day. It can't be during math time or reading time, but I'm sure there's a time you can find! You know, use that down time during your day!

Then the lady from central office gets to drive back to her office in Rockville having done her "job" of showing us a video that shows just how easy it is to "fix" these problems, but oh, sorry, we can't actually provide the resources that those schools in the video have for you to actually do what they do. Figure out how to pull the rabbit out of hat with what you already have. But call me with any questions!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All in all, I agree those kids may need help, other kids for sure, I am willing to help them and I already do via my taxes, but please leave that outside my child’s school.

This.

Plus, all the waste drives me nuts. It is insane!

We are at a school that provides free breakfast for all kids. Guess how much food ends up in the trash daily. It is ridiculous!

So much easier to waste food and other resources when someone else is paying.

So much easier to decide that other kids' problems are someone else's problem.

Are they not?

Are you saying other kids' problems are your problem? or my problem? For the former - go with it. For the latter - who are you to decide that?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Are they not?

Are you saying other kids' problems are your problem? or my problem? For the former - go with it. For the latter - who are you to decide that?

The voice of reality.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Are they not?

Are you saying other kids' problems are your problem? or my problem? For the former - go with it. For the latter - who are you to decide that?

The voice of reality.

Well, if you agree they are your problem, I don't disagree. Why don't you go ahead and deal with them?

As for "my problem", I don't agree with you on that. So let's just wait until we get that straightened out - which I'm in no rush.

Let's agree on what we agree on: they are your problem, you are not doing a good job solving those and should be blamed!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Are they not?

Are you saying other kids' problems are your problem? or my problem? For the former - go with it. For the latter - who are you to decide that?

The voice of reality.

Well, if you agree they are your problem, I don't disagree. Why don't you go ahead and deal with them?

As for "my problem", I don't agree with you on that. So let's just wait until we get that straightened out - which I'm in no rush.

Let's agree on what we agree on: they are your problem, you are not doing a good job solving those and should be blamed!

If you'd instead prefer to pay to keep them in jail as adults, then that's your preference, I guess, though it's a terrible return on investment.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well over half are either in ESOL or are Hispanic https://wtop.com/montgomery-county/2019/07/montgomery-co-public-schools-have-a-dropout-problem-heres-why/

Well I guest the response to this topic says it: who cares?

I am not being sarcastic. I truly believe that if these students and/or their families do not care, others should not (yes, SHOULD not - or at least PUBLIC RESOURCES should not be used to deal with this).

They care, but often they are facing very immediate economic needs that can’t wait two to three years to address. A third income earner can make the difference between rent or eviction, vegetables and fruit or malnutrition. This was not an unusual pattern in white immigrant families two generations ago. My XH’s grandmother left school at 15 to work FT in a store. Her sacrifice made it possible for the family to survive and her younger siblings to graduate HS. T

when I was in mcps I went to school with very poor immigrants from South Asia . They managed to not only bot drop out they also got into Ivy League colleges

I'm not going to go through 10 pages of BS, but Asian immigrants since 1965 (especially the closer you get to 1965) were disproportionately beneficiaries of "brain drain" policies that favored highly-educated immigrants, regardless of income. Highly-educated parents, even if driving cabs, tend to push education on their kids at all costs. It's HARD, though. And once the Brain Drain happened, the stereotype of Asians as "inherently smart" and "hardworking" grew, such that they tended to face *less* (not no, but less) racial discrimination in education. So you have a two-part issue here, one that educational level correlates strongly with valuing education, and more recent Central American immigrant parents tend to be *less* educated (on average), and the second that Latino families are more likely to face lower expectations and discrimination.