Committee on overcrowding in the Wilson feeder pattern

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What do you think will actually happen when these large classes of kids hit Wilson? I have a 6th grader at Deal and the grade is about 575 kids. The classes below this at all the feeder elementary schools are even larger. So let's say that Deal hits 650/grade in a few years--totally reasonable and probably conservative projection.
And there isn't room in the area privates (at least the ones in DC) to absorb any kids. We tried applying my kid last year to a big 3 and they didn't take any kids from our JKLM. None. They took 10 kids overall and the public school kids they took (a whopping 5) were almost all (but 1) from Montgomery County.
So what really happens? Boundary change isn't going to happen within 3-5 years. Does Wilson just get trailers? How are they going to manage absolutely giant grades? Any realistic thoughts on this?

3 kids from our charter school got into Big 3s last year. Maybe your kid just wasn't good enough to cut it.

I knew the insults would start any minute. Never change DCUM. Never change.

At our JKLM exactly one kid was accepted into a big 3. It wasn't my kid. Perhaps your HRCS is a much better school. Congrats.

Regardless, these schools have finite spots at 9th grade (or any grade).
Sidwell takes 20ish at 9th (figure 10 girls, 10 boys). The Cathedral schools each take around 15. GDS takes around 30. Maret around 15.
Burke will take some. Field some (I don't know these numbers).
But regardless these numbers are really small and a drop in the bucket when it comes to any bulge in enrollment numbers at Wilson.
(and these spots filled in large part by private school K-8 students).
Then you have the Catholic high schools--some of which are quite big.

But my point being, I'm still wondering what will truly happen to an excess of kids at Wilson. A common refrain is "kids will go private" but the numbers
show that these privates are full and their student bodies are ultimately really small. They're not going to absorb any more than a handful of kids.
That was my only point.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What do you think will actually happen when these large classes of kids hit Wilson? I have a 6th grader at Deal and the grade is about 575 kids. The classes below this at all the feeder elementary schools are even larger. So let's say that Deal hits 650/grade in a few years--totally reasonable and probably conservative projection.
And there isn't room in the area privates (at least the ones in DC) to absorb any kids. We tried applying my kid last year to a big 3 and they didn't take any kids from our JKLM. None. They took 10 kids overall and the public school kids they took (a whopping 5) were almost all (but 1) from Montgomery County.
So what really happens? Boundary change isn't going to happen within 3-5 years. Does Wilson just get trailers? How are they going to manage absolutely giant grades? Any realistic thoughts on this?

3 kids from our charter school got into Big 3s last year. Maybe your kid just wasn't good enough to cut it.

I knew the insults would start any minute. Never change DCUM. Never change.

At our JKLM exactly one kid was accepted into a big 3. It wasn't my kid. Perhaps your HRCS is a much better school. Congrats.

Regardless, these schools have finite spots at 9th grade (or any grade).
Sidwell takes 20ish at 9th (figure 10 girls, 10 boys). The Cathedral schools each take around 15. GDS takes around 30. Maret around 15.
Burke will take some. Field some (I don't know these numbers).
But regardless these numbers are really small and a drop in the bucket when it comes to any bulge in enrollment numbers at Wilson.
(and these spots filled in large part by private school K-8 students).
Then you have the Catholic high schools--some of which are quite big.

But my point being, I'm still wondering what will truly happen to an excess of kids at Wilson. A common refrain is "kids will go private" but the numbers
show that these privates are full and their student bodies are ultimately really small. They're not going to absorb any more than a handful of kids.
That was my only point.

People also move to MoCo or Fairfax or elsewhere.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:what high performing schools on that side of the city doe't have a good hs feed? Stodderd? put those schools with shepherd and lafayette and make it a "small" high school and cap it at 800-1200 as a carrot since not everyone wants a huge high school and it will feel like an attractive alternative to Wilson. You need to create a second highschool not just move families into an underperforming school that will be at capacity soon anyway. Not sure what to do about deal.

I agree, but the Chancellor does not and probably the DME agrees with her. My Kids area at Ross, one of the best performing ES in the district. Our high school is Cardozo. possibly the worst high school in the city (feel free to check that). When asked about our high school options the Chancellors answer is "we ned to improve Cardozo".

Not sure on how she is going to do that. But creating new high school just up or down the road from Cardozo is not how they are thinking. What is that saying about the albatross?

Coolidge is less than 50% ultized and has low in bounds enrollment. This could be the next Wilson. Except only 1% of the kids passed math last year. So another Cardozo situation.

DCPS gave up on that when they created the plans for the new Coolidge. Half of the renovated building, half the seats to an undefined early college program, and the rest for health science and communications arts academy. It will not be a general, comprehensive high school by any stretch of the imagination.

Any IB, college bound student living in the Coolidge feeder pattern who doesn't want to start college in 11th grade is out of luck.

So DCPS is trying to create boutique solutions in the hope of pleasing everyone. It sounds like a mis mash. And add the middle school. Has anysone seriously thoguht abou thow this is not going to be the next Cardozo middle/high school campus failure?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What do you think will actually happen when these large classes of kids hit Wilson? I have a 6th grader at Deal and the grade is about 575 kids. The classes below this at all the feeder elementary schools are even larger. So let's say that Deal hits 650/grade in a few years--totally reasonable and probably conservative projection.
And there isn't room in the area privates (at least the ones in DC) to absorb any kids. We tried applying my kid last year to a big 3 and they didn't take any kids from our JKLM. None. They took 10 kids overall and the public school kids they took (a whopping 5) were almost all (but 1) from Montgomery County.
So what really happens? Boundary change isn't going to happen within 3-5 years. Does Wilson just get trailers? How are they going to manage absolutely giant grades? Any realistic thoughts on this?

My guess is nothing is going to happen. If parents don't like having such a crowded school there will be plenty of room for their kids at Cardozo and Coolidge and Roosevelt and basically all the other high schools. But since most parents prefer a crowded Wilson to an uncrowded alternative, DCPS won't feel like it needs to do anything.

In the longer term, yes I think things will change with redistricting and by expanding Banneker and with the rising profile of McKinley Tech. I could see a few more middle-class families trying out Eastern and Roosevelt (for the IB and bilingual programs) and think Coolidge and Cardozo have some promise of attracting more IB families too if their middle school feeders could get some more support.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:what high performing schools on that side of the city doe't have a good hs feed? Stodderd? put those schools with shepherd and lafayette and make it a "small" high school and cap it at 800-1200 as a carrot since not everyone wants a huge high school and it will feel like an attractive alternative to Wilson. You need to create a second highschool not just move families into an underperforming school that will be at capacity soon anyway. Not sure what to do about deal.

I agree, but the Chancellor does not and probably the DME agrees with her. My Kids area at Ross, one of the best performing ES in the district. Our high school is Cardozo. possibly the worst high school in the city (feel free to check that). When asked about our high school options the Chancellors answer is "we ned to improve Cardozo".

Not sure on how she is going to do that. But creating new high school just up or down the road from Cardozo is not how they are thinking. What is that saying about the albatross?

Coolidge is less than 50% ultized and has low in bounds enrollment. This could be the next Wilson. Except only 1% of the kids passed math last year. So another Cardozo situation.

DCPS gave up on that when they created the plans for the new Coolidge. Half of the renovated building, half the seats to an undefined early college program, and the rest for health science and communications arts academy. It will not be a general, comprehensive high school by any stretch of the imagination.

Any IB, college bound student living in the Coolidge feeder pattern who doesn't want to start college in 11th grade is out of luck.

So DCPS is trying to create boutique solutions in the hope of pleasing everyone. It sounds like a mis mash. And add the middle school. Has anysone seriously thoguht abou thow this is not going to be the next Cardozo middle/high school campus failure?

Coolidge is a total mish-mash, probably because it is the last high school to go through a renovation. But we're about half way through the $180M we're spending on it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What do you think will actually happen when these large classes of kids hit Wilson? I have a 6th grader at Deal and the grade is about 575 kids. The classes below this at all the feeder elementary schools are even larger. So let's say that Deal hits 650/grade in a few years--totally reasonable and probably conservative projection.
And there isn't room in the area privates (at least the ones in DC) to absorb any kids. We tried applying my kid last year to a big 3 and they didn't take any kids from our JKLM. None. They took 10 kids overall and the public school kids they took (a whopping 5) were almost all (but 1) from Montgomery County.
So what really happens? Boundary change isn't going to happen within 3-5 years. Does Wilson just get trailers? How are they going to manage absolutely giant grades? Any realistic thoughts on this?

My guess is nothing is going to happen. If parents don't like having such a crowded school there will be plenty of room for their kids at Cardozo and Coolidge and Roosevelt and basically all the other high schools. But since most parents prefer a crowded Wilson to an uncrowded alternative, DCPS won't feel like it needs to do anything.

In the longer term, yes I think things will change with redistricting and by expanding Banneker and with the rising profile of McKinley Tech. I could see a few more middle-class families trying out Eastern and Roosevelt (for the IB and bilingual programs) and think Coolidge and Cardozo have some promise of attracting more IB families too if their middle school feeders could get some more support.

I really don't think doing nothing is an option.

When Wilson has a Freshman class of 800 DCPS is going to have to do something. And this could be a year away.

Wilson cannot accommodate 3200 students.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:what high performing schools on that side of the city doe't have a good hs feed? Stodderd? put those schools with shepherd and lafayette and make it a "small" high school and cap it at 800-1200 as a carrot since not everyone wants a huge high school and it will feel like an attractive alternative to Wilson. You need to create a second highschool not just move families into an underperforming school that will be at capacity soon anyway. Not sure what to do about deal.

Those are ES, they also need a middle school, and there are many of those already, and they feed to under enrolled high schools. So even though I like your idea because it created a carrot as you say. A joined up Middle and High could work, but still do the numbers support it? And could it be justified with the current facilities available. I bet the answer to both of those is NO.

Can't they keep teh same middle school but be zoned for a different high school? So Ross feeds to cardoza middle school feeds cardoza but then Ross feeds new "lafayette shepherd west ross stodderd" high school. throw in one underperforming school too. Families can go charter or private for middle school and then join high school. Lafayette and shepherd can go to deal and then join new high school, no feed to wilson.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:what high performing schools on that side of the city doe't have a good hs feed? Stodderd? put those schools with shepherd and lafayette and make it a "small" high school and cap it at 800-1200 as a carrot since not everyone wants a huge high school and it will feel like an attractive alternative to Wilson. You need to create a second highschool not just move families into an underperforming school that will be at capacity soon anyway. Not sure what to do about deal.

Those are ES, they also need a middle school, and there are many of those already, and they feed to under enrolled high schools. So even though I like your idea because it created a carrot as you say. A joined up Middle and High could work, but still do the numbers support it? And could it be justified with the current facilities available. I bet the answer to both of those is NO.

Can't they keep teh same middle school but be zoned for a different high school? So Ross feeds to cardoza middle school feeds cardoza but then Ross feeds new "lafayette shepherd west ross stodderd" high school. throw in one underperforming school too. Families can go charter or private for middle school and then join high school. Lafayette and shepherd can go to deal and then join new high school, no feed to wilson.

If Francis-Stevens middle school students were routed to Cardozo middle and high school along with the current schools feeding Cardozo (so, a middle school of Ross, Francis-Stevens, Thomson, Seaton, Garrison, and Cleveland) that is a group of students with a good number of high-scorers on the PARCC, and probably more high-scorers 5 years from now. Removing 6-8 from Francis Stevens would also allow more elementary students there so there'd be more kids in the feeder pattern for Cardozo. But it takes some buy-in from the families in-bounds and right now the ones who are zoned for Francis Stevens want to keep the status quo and the ones who aren't are wrapped up fighting an already-lost battle to get a Shaw Middle School on the site DCPS has already chosen for an expanded Banneker. So all 6 school communities would have to work together to improve Cardozo MS...some things people have said they wanted on the thread about that include staggered start and end times for the middle and high schoolers, a dedicated middle school principal with a contract more than one year long, and guaranteed honors classes for kid who come in at or above grade level even if those classes will be small.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:what high performing schools on that side of the city doe't have a good hs feed? Stodderd? put those schools with shepherd and lafayette and make it a "small" high school and cap it at 800-1200 as a carrot since not everyone wants a huge high school and it will feel like an attractive alternative to Wilson. You need to create a second highschool not just move families into an underperforming school that will be at capacity soon anyway. Not sure what to do about deal.

Those are ES, they also need a middle school, and there are many of those already, and they feed to under enrolled high schools. So even though I like your idea because it created a carrot as you say. A joined up Middle and High could work, but still do the numbers support it? And could it be justified with the current facilities available. I bet the answer to both of those is NO.

Can't they keep teh same middle school but be zoned for a different high school? So Ross feeds to cardoza middle school feeds cardoza but then Ross feeds new "lafayette shepherd west ross stodderd" high school. throw in one underperforming school too. Families can go charter or private for middle school and then join high school. Lafayette and shepherd can go to deal and then join new high school, no feed to wilson.

If Francis-Stevens middle school students were routed to Cardozo middle and high school along with the current schools feeding Cardozo (so, a middle school of Ross, Francis-Stevens, Thomson, Seaton, Garrison, and Cleveland) that is a group of students with a good number of high-scorers on the PARCC, and probably more high-scorers 5 years from now. Removing 6-8 from Francis Stevens would also allow more elementary students there so there'd be more kids in the feeder pattern for Cardozo. But it takes some buy-in from the families in-bounds and right now the ones who are zoned for Francis Stevens want to keep the status quo and the ones who aren't are wrapped up fighting an already-lost battle to get a Shaw Middle School on the site DCPS has already chosen for an expanded Banneker. So all 6 school communities would have to work together to improve Cardozo MS...some things people have said they wanted on the thread about that include staggered start and end times for the middle and high schoolers, a dedicated middle school principal with a contract more than one year long, and guaranteed honors classes for kid who come in at or above grade level even if those classes will be small.

Very well said. But a tough ask when there is a big population who can vote with their feet. Perhaps if Oyster Adams fed to the high school that woudl boost support for the middle, ie there will be a strong cohort at high. But I cannot see people willing give up good enough feeds, ie Ross and Thompson, to support the families of the other schools who are likely to not stick it out. Many more carrots are needed from DCPS.

[Anonymous]

Cardozo had 3% of students get a 4 or 5 on math PARCC in 2018. Exactly zero middle/high SES families currently zoned for Wilson will go to Cardozo absent a complete restructuring of the school including all new faculty. Sorry, but all these dreamers talking about solutions that would remove a handful of kids from Wilson and send them to Cardozo to improve that school are absolutely nuts. This thread is a total waste of time.

[Anonymous]

They'll keep stuffing kids into Deal and Wilson until either the fire marshal tells them to stop or someone sues DCPS because the conditions have become so unsafe. Knowing DCPS, it'll be the latter, making any fix 100 times more expensive.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Did the DCPS Committtee that was formed last year to assess and advise on overcrowding in Wilson Feeder pattern schools ever issue a report? I can’t find one on any website and I called DCPS and the person I spoke to didn’t know anything about the group. I ask as I see budgets and building priorities being discussed and released for next year with no mention of this assessment. Thanks for any information.

I’m surprised there are not lawsuits against DC public schools for overcrowding and for admitting students not residing in DC.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Did the DCPS Committtee that was formed last year to assess and advise on overcrowding in Wilson Feeder pattern schools ever issue a report? I can’t find one on any website and I called DCPS and the person I spoke to didn’t know anything about the group. I ask as I see budgets and building priorities being discussed and released for next year with no mention of this assessment. Thanks for any information.

I’m surprised there are not lawsuits against DC public schools for overcrowding and for admitting students not residing in DC.

Furthermore the schools should take the strict in boundary families first and not go over by admitting students from outside of the boundaries. So many In boundary students for Wilson and deal go to private school so I find it hard to believe the school is overcrowded with actual in boundary students.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Did the DCPS Committtee that was formed last year to assess and advise on overcrowding in Wilson Feeder pattern schools ever issue a report? I can’t find one on any website and I called DCPS and the person I spoke to didn’t know anything about the group. I ask as I see budgets and building priorities being discussed and released for next year with no mention of this assessment. Thanks for any information.

I’m surprised there are not lawsuits against DC public schools for overcrowding and for admitting students not residing in DC.

Furthermore the schools should take the strict in boundary families first and not go over by admitting students from outside of the boundaries. So many In boundary students for Wilson and deal go to private school so I find it hard to believe the school is overcrowded with actual in boundary students.

Seems like as long as the city incentivizes having bodies in seats, it'll continue.