Two paths to magnet program at Richard Montgomery High School

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Why do you assume that the comprehensive kids in the IB classes are low-performing?

The average SAT score difference between IB kids and non IB kids is probably more than 700 pts. I think it's a fair thing to say. And before you ask for proof, you know as well as I do the MCPS doesn't publish that information but you can estimate - you know the number of IB kids, you know the number of RM kids (including IB), you know SAT avg for entire class, and you know avg SAT for IB kids. If you have at least HS education, you can calculate avg SAT for non IB kids. Your HW for tonight.

Even assuming that you know that -- the average SAT score for the non-RMIB kids as a whole tells you nothing about the individual SAT scores of individual non-RMIB kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The avg SAT for all the non-magnet kids tell you nothing about the ones that choose to join IB in 11th grade.

Bingo.
And it's increasingly clear OP is a standard issue crank.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The avg SAT for all the non-magnet kids tell you nothing about the ones that choose to join IB in 11th grade.

Bingo.
And it's increasingly clear OP is a standard issue crank.

Indeed. I'm not aware of any school that reports SATs broken out by magnet programs.

[Anonymous]

I am the OP and have not said a single word about SAT score. So, please do not try to pin those posts on me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Not all IB schools and their student bodies are same. RM is not just a IB school, it is a magnet IB school. How hard is this for you to understand, the magnet student are invited all across the county to join a program designed for academically highly gifted (not just who can do well in IBDP or AP)? Students who could have gone to one of the other 7/8 IB schools but would not find their intellectual peers to are recruited to this program. Letting RM-kids join the same magnet IB program without going through the same selection process is a back-door. Highly Gifted children (like other special need children) have special academic need and their education opportunity should not be compromised

It is like forming very successful Varsity team by excruciating selection and then let the coach's son into the team since he was there watching all the games.

What is racist and classist in this? Academic preparedness and intellectual curiosity is not limited to a class or race. RM cluster is neither full of URM or poor, in case you do not know.

Recruited? How?

Magnet coordinator visits to local are middle schools and briefs them about the program, speaks about all academic options, college success, and school support during the open house to attract them to apply, reaches out to local middle schools to ensure all questions are answered, fields questions about the program from curious students/parents, screens applications to identify the Highly Gifted students, sends selected students invitations, and conducts information sessions to highlight the best students to encourage them to chose RM over Blair/Poolesville programs. That is how.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Not all IB schools and their student bodies are same. RM is not just a IB school, it is a magnet IB school. How hard is this for you to understand, the magnet student are invited all across the county to join a program designed for academically highly gifted (not just who can do well in IBDP or AP)? Students who could have gone to one of the other 7/8 IB schools but would not find their intellectual peers to are recruited to this program. Letting RM-kids join the same magnet IB program without going through the same selection process is a back-door. Highly Gifted children (like other special need children) have special academic need and their education opportunity should not be compromised

It is like forming very successful Varsity team by excruciating selection and then let the coach's son into the team since he was there watching all the games.

What is racist and classist in this? Academic preparedness and intellectual curiosity is not limited to a class or race. RM cluster is neither full of URM or poor, in case you do not know.

Recruited? How?

Magnet coordinator visits to local are middle schools and briefs them about the program, speaks about all academic options, college success, and school support during the open house to attract them to apply, reaches out to local middle schools to ensure all questions are answered, fields questions about the program from curious students/parents, screens applications to identify the Highly Gifted students, sends selected students invitations, and conducts information sessions to highlight the best students to encourage them to chose RM over Blair/Poolesville programs. That is how.

That's not recruiting. That's visiting schools and implementing an application process.

Somebody from the college I went to visited my high school. I applied and was admitted. They didn't recruit me. (There were people they did recruit, namely athletes.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Not all IB schools and their student bodies are same. RM is not just a IB school, it is a magnet IB school. How hard is this for you to understand, the magnet student are invited all across the county to join a program designed for academically highly gifted (not just who can do well in IBDP or AP)? Students who could have gone to one of the other 7/8 IB schools but would not find their intellectual peers to are recruited to this program. Letting RM-kids join the same magnet IB program without going through the same selection process is a back-door. Highly Gifted children (like other special need children) have special academic need and their education opportunity should not be compromised

It is like forming very successful Varsity team by excruciating selection and then let the coach's son into the team since he was there watching all the games.

What is racist and classist in this? Academic preparedness and intellectual curiosity is not limited to a class or race. RM cluster is neither full of URM or poor, in case you do not know.

Which other IB school allows OOB students? I assume most RMIB kids do not have the IB option at their home school.

RM does not allow OOB school, its a deal that MCPS did with RM to place MCPS' magnet program in RM so that RM can be a viable school by inviting academically advanced students and parents from all over the county. It is a similar deal that county has made with Blair and Poolesville. So, these schools are hosts and not owner of these programs.

BCC, Einstein, Kennedy, Rockville, Seneca Valley, Springbrook, and Watkins Mill have IB Diploma options and kids from those clusters come to study at RM in the magnet IB program.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Not all IB schools and their student bodies are same. RM is not just a IB school, it is a magnet IB school. How hard is this for you to understand, the magnet student are invited all across the county to join a program designed for academically highly gifted (not just who can do well in IBDP or AP)? Students who could have gone to one of the other 7/8 IB schools but would not find their intellectual peers to are recruited to this program. Letting RM-kids join the same magnet IB program without going through the same selection process is a back-door. Highly Gifted children (like other special need children) have special academic need and their education opportunity should not be compromised

It is like forming very successful Varsity team by excruciating selection and then let the coach's son into the team since he was there watching all the games.

What is racist and classist in this? Academic preparedness and intellectual curiosity is not limited to a class or race. RM cluster is neither full of URM or poor, in case you do not know.

Which other IB school allows OOB students? I assume most RMIB kids do not have the IB option at their home school.

RM does not allow OOB school, its a deal that MCPS did with RM to place MCPS' magnet program in RM so that RM can be a viable school by inviting academically advanced students and parents from all over the county. It is a similar deal that county has made with Blair and Poolesville. So, these schools are hosts and not owner of these programs.

BCC, Einstein, Kennedy, Rockville, Seneca Valley, Springbrook, and Watkins Mill have IB Diploma options and kids from those clusters come to study at RM in the magnet IB program.

[Anonymous]

What? Of course RM has kids from out of it boundaries? And since RM has over 2000 kids it would be quite viable without the magnet...though I know that was not the case 30 years ago when it was added.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What? Of course RM has kids from out of it boundaries? And since RM has over 2000 kids it would be quite viable without the magnet...though I know that was not the case 30 years ago when it was added.

What I intended to say was RM itself does not "allow" the OOB kids. Its based on an agreement with MCPS the magnet program takes the OOB kids, unless someone gets a COSA waiver.

As for RM being viable without the magnet kids, you are right about student strength. It was a low-performing school about to close due to performance reason. So, I am not sure what its state would be without the magnet program now. However, if RM administration and parents feel they do not gain anything from the magnet program, they should ask the county to move the magnet program from its school to another school instead of trying to undermine it. May be RM-Cluster parents should push for that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What? Of course RM has kids from out of it boundaries? And since RM has over 2000 kids it would be quite viable without the magnet...though I know that was not the case 30 years ago when it was added.

Yeah, the PP is confusing the reason the magnet was created with today. In the mid 80s enrollment was down probably because original owners in the catchment had their kids and were aging in place. Rather than close the school the IB application program was created to boost enrollment. Now the demographic issues have long since sorted out but magnet parents still claim their status as savior. There's one of these on every thread.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am the OP and have not said a single word about SAT score. So, please do not try to pin those posts on me.

Sorry, that PP genuinely had me going, I was bracing for ramblings about 3 sigma and graphs with disembodied Einstein.

But the question remains, how do the local students alter the quality of the classes in 11th? I only have one student to ask and she says they don't, they are highly motivated students (she is annoyed they have easier entry). And with the relaxed process how many non-applicant students attempt/complete an IB diploma? I'm thinking the numbers must be a small fraction of the magnet.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What? Of course RM has kids from out of it boundaries? And since RM has over 2000 kids it would be quite viable without the magnet...though I know that was not the case 30 years ago when it was added.

What I intended to say was RM itself does not "allow" the OOB kids. Its based on an agreement with MCPS the magnet program takes the OOB kids, unless someone gets a COSA waiver.

As for RM being viable without the magnet kids, you are right about student strength. It was a low-performing school about to close due to performance reason. So, I am not sure what its state would be without the magnet program now. However, if RM administration and parents feel they do not gain anything from the magnet program, they should ask the county to move the magnet program from its school to another school instead of trying to undermine it. May be RM-Cluster parents should push for that.

It was no such thing. Good grief.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I attended an IB high school that was not a magnet, and anyone could enroll in the IB courses assuming they met the criteria for the equivalent AP class.

Of the entire class of 450, exactly 8 of us did the full diploma.

All of that is to say that I think these claims of "unqualified" students being allowed in are overblown at best, and racist/classist nonsense at worst.

The kids you don't want in the IB classes? They largely aren't going to sign up for them.

Not all IB schools and their student bodies are same. RM is not just a IB school, it is a magnet IB school. How hard is this for you to understand, the magnet student are invited all across the county to join a program designed for academically highly gifted (not just who can do well in IBDP or AP)? Students who could have gone to one of the other 7/8 IB schools but would not find their intellectual peers to are recruited to this program. Letting RM-kids join the same magnet IB program without going through the same selection process is a back-door. Highly Gifted children (like other special need children) have special academic need and their education opportunity should not be compromised

It is like forming very successful Varsity team by excruciating selection and then let the coach's son into the team since he was there watching all the games.

What is racist and classist in this? Academic preparedness and intellectual curiosity is not limited to a class or race. RM cluster is neither full of URM or poor, in case you do not know.

This is a cheap analogy, the accusation is not that there's nepotism or favoritism but that there's a flimsy application process for the 11th grade local students. And why should there be a formal process when the students have two years of performance in HS to back up their interest. A better comparison, it's like noticing a talented kid on the JV team, does coach say nice job next year try out for varsity, hope you make it this time, or do they move the kid to varsity based on performance? Having students grouped appropriately is in everyone's best interest and any information should be used to do this.

And what should RM do, no one will answer this? Every HS has a group of high achieving local students, for whatever reason they didn't end up at magnets, maybe they weren't interested then, maybe they didn't show the same promise in MS, but at some point they out pace the regular course offering. Worst case they need to be bused to a different school or sent to community college. But if the classes are already at their HS they should have access to them, (Blair doesn't send any local students to MCC for a math or science class). The fact that there's already a magnet means it's unlikely some other signature program will be started for the local population, like the APEX program at Walter Johnson (and if they did, would magnet students be shut out?). Having a parallel IB program doesn't make much sense as separating the two populations prevents the scheduling benefits that the larger pool should have. And how can it ever be clear that there are two distinct IB diplomas and a regular diploma offered at the school or justified that students take the same classes but they're not the same? There's really no perfect solution, so why not err in the direction of opening the umbrella a little?

The hangup seems to be the right to claim magnet status or the wording of the mailing that goes out with the transcript, but, come on, HS is the time in HS, not the piece of paper. If there's any value to the program, that should show up intrinsically in the students who put in the time completing it and no scrap of paper will capture that. To say otherwise just disparages the actual education in the program--don't these students already write better, score better, accomplish more because of these four years?

[Anonymous]

And colleges get the transcript, they see the classes for all for 4years. Some kids have 9 and 10 magnet classes and some do not. It is like saying it is not fair that some kids get an MCPS diploma and only took grade level classes while my child took higher level classes and still gets the same diploma.