IB Program- What is it? IB or AP?

[Anonymous]

I'm a parent of IB kid in MoCo and finding this discussion interesting. In MoCo, IB is well respected and regarded and has produced very strong students. Its popularity has certainly increased last 10 years and continue to do so each passing year. Financially, MoCo is not in any better shape than FCPS but noone is demanding IB cuts. Maybe FCPS's issue is with implementation and not with the program itself. Two cents.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm a parent of IB kid in MoCo and finding this discussion interesting. In MoCo, IB is well respected and regarded and has produced very strong students. Its popularity has certainly increased last 10 years and continue to do so each passing year. Financially, MoCo is not in any better shape than FCPS but noone is demanding IB cuts. Maybe FCPS's issue is with implementation and not with the program itself. Two cents.

FCPS has no IB magnet like RM, and it has a school or two with programs like B-CC. But otherwise it seems similar in that Whitman/Churchill/Wootton/Walter Johnson/Poolesville, the schools in MoCo similar to Langley/McLean/Madison/Woodson/Oakton, are all AP, and IB seems to be concentrated at lower SES schools in MoCo like Einstein, Kennedy, Seneca Valley, Springbrook, and Watkins Mill. The cynics would still say that IB is an expensive boondoggle, and that both FCPS and MCPS tend to stick it in schools where they expect the least resistance to a less popular program.

[Anonymous]

I teach IB at a secondary school in Europe. I used to teach AP (same subject) in the US. I agree with the PP who wrote that the IB program is not structured to fit the typical American public school system (grade groupings, ethos, etc.). I also don't think that schools/departments who have newly taken up the IB are going to be able to implement it properly: teachers don't really "get it" until they've taught it for a year, preferably with the support of experienced IB colleagues. The on-site IB training seminars and online IB training classes don't really prepare a teacher very well.

The IB program works very well in Europe, and I love teaching it, but when we move home my youngest will be doing AP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've read most of this thread and it makes no sense. If IB were even close to being as rigorous as AP, why wouldn't FCPS put it in the schools with more high-performing kids, not the low-SES schools? Either it's not as hard as some people like to claim or FCPS made a big blunder. It just doesn't add up. if I were OP, it would take me about 10 seconds to decide to stick with Langley.

FCPS made a big blunder. They though IB would pull high SES kids to low performing schools., this pulling those schools up. It didn't-- probably because parents who intentionally buy at a high SES "prestigious" high school have no interest in letting their kids go to a low SES school. They want to be able to name drop that their kid is at Langley, and would be embarrassed to say they have a kid at Mt. Vernon. If you can afford to buy in the Langley district, they want people to know. They also don't learn about the program. In fact, they have a vested interest in having IB fail-- and you can see that in this conversation. If a kid can get a great education at a low SES school, why spend so much money to buy in Langley borders? I'd bet that most parents railing against IB never went with their kid to IB night at their transfer HS to learn about the program with an open mind. If FCPS had put IB in just South Lakes and Robinson, and make it competitive entry in some way (say, you need a certain MS GPA, plus a B+ or greater in a first year foreign language and Geometry, it would be very highly regarded. Also, FCPS doesn't provide transportation, which is a huge barrier for some kids.

But really, this thread is a bunch of Madison, Langley, Oakton, etc parents loud

+1 This is what they should have done. Made it a magnet type school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I teach IB at a secondary school in Europe. I used to teach AP (same subject) in the US. I agree with the PP who wrote that the IB program is not structured to fit the typical American public school system (grade groupings, ethos, etc.). I also don't think that schools/departments who have newly taken up the IB are going to be able to implement it properly: teachers don't really "get it" until they've taught it for a year, preferably with the support of experienced IB colleagues. The on-site IB training seminars and online IB training classes don't really prepare a teacher very well.

The IB program works very well in Europe, and I love teaching it, but when we move home my youngest will be doing AP.

I think that's a very good point. You can't just "turn on" IB. It takes a lot of time, effort, and proper setting to make it work. And when it works, it can do wonders.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've read most of this thread and it makes no sense. If IB were even close to being as rigorous as AP, why wouldn't FCPS put it in the schools with more high-performing kids, not the low-SES schools? Either it's not as hard as some people like to claim or FCPS made a big blunder. It just doesn't add up. if I were OP, it would take me about 10 seconds to decide to stick with Langley.

FCPS made a big blunder. They though IB would pull high SES kids to low performing schools., this pulling those schools up. It didn't-- probably because parents who intentionally buy at a high SES "prestigious" high school have no interest in letting their kids go to a low SES school. They want to be able to name drop that their kid is at Langley, and would be embarrassed to say they have a kid at Mt. Vernon. If you can afford to buy in the Langley district, they want people to know. They also don't learn about the program. In fact, they have a vested interest in having IB fail-- and you can see that in this conversation. If a kid can get a great education at a low SES school, why spend so much money to buy in Langley borders? I'd bet that most parents railing against IB never went with their kid to IB night at their transfer HS to learn about the program with an open mind. If FCPS had put IB in just South Lakes and Robinson, and make it competitive entry in some way (say, you need a certain MS GPA, plus a B+ or greater in a first year foreign language and Geometry, it would be very highly regarded. Also, FCPS doesn't provide transportation, which is a huge barrier for some kids.

But really, this thread is a bunch of Madison, Langley, Oakton, etc parents loud

+1 This is what they should have done. Made it a magnet type school.

Will never happen in FCPS b/c it will suck talents out of TJ.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I teach IB at a secondary school in Europe. I used to teach AP (same subject) in the US. I agree with the PP who wrote that the IB program is not structured to fit the typical American public school system (grade groupings, ethos, etc.). I also don't think that schools/departments who have newly taken up the IB are going to be able to implement it properly: teachers don't really "get it" until they've taught it for a year, preferably with the support of experienced IB colleagues. The on-site IB training seminars and online IB training classes don't really prepare a teacher very well.

The IB program works very well in Europe, and I love teaching it, but when we move home my youngest will be doing AP.

I think that's a very good point. You can't just "turn on" IB. It takes a lot of time, effort, and proper setting to make it work. And when it works, it can do wonders.

Most high schools in FCPS with IB have had it for at least 15 years, if not longer. There's been plenty of time for those "wonders" to emerge, and it hasn't happened. Are we supposed to just keep paying for IBO fees, IB coordinators, and IB training junkets and classes for another 15 years to see if something changes?

The best thing I've heard about IB is that it develops writing skills. Surely there are alternative, and less expensive, ways to achieve that goal.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I teach IB at a secondary school in Europe. I used to teach AP (same subject) in the US. I agree with the PP who wrote that the IB program is not structured to fit the typical American public school system (grade groupings, ethos, etc.). I also don't think that schools/departments who have newly taken up the IB are going to be able to implement it properly: teachers don't really "get it" until they've taught it for a year, preferably with the support of experienced IB colleagues. The on-site IB training seminars and online IB training classes don't really prepare a teacher very well.

The IB program works very well in Europe, and I love teaching it, but when we move home my youngest will be doing AP.

I think that's a very good point. You can't just "turn on" IB. It takes a lot of time, effort, and proper setting to make it work. And when it works, it can do wonders.

Most high schools in FCPS with IB have had it for at least 15 years, if not longer. There's been plenty of time for those "wonders" to emerge, and it hasn't happened. Are we supposed to just keep paying for IBO fees, IB coordinators, and IB training junkets and classes for another 15 years to see if something changes?

The best thing I've heard about IB is that it develops writing skills. Surely there are alternative, and less expensive, ways to achieve that goal.

Good things take time. Be patient.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I teach IB at a secondary school in Europe. I used to teach AP (same subject) in the US. I agree with the PP who wrote that the IB program is not structured to fit the typical American public school system (grade groupings, ethos, etc.). I also don't think that schools/departments who have newly taken up the IB are going to be able to implement it properly: teachers don't really "get it" until they've taught it for a year, preferably with the support of experienced IB colleagues. The on-site IB training seminars and online IB training classes don't really prepare a teacher very well.

The IB program works very well in Europe, and I love teaching it, but when we move home my youngest will be doing AP.

I think that's a very good point. You can't just "turn on" IB. It takes a lot of time, effort, and proper setting to make it work. And when it works, it can do wonders.

Most high schools in FCPS with IB have had it for at least 15 years, if not longer. There's been plenty of time for those "wonders" to emerge, and it hasn't happened. Are we supposed to just keep paying for IBO fees, IB coordinators, and IB training junkets and classes for another 15 years to see if something changes?

The best thing I've heard about IB is that it develops writing skills. Surely there are alternative, and less expensive, ways to achieve that goal.

Good things take time. Be patient.

Our time on this earth is limited. Be bold.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

IB is a negative for the lower ranked SES schools. Few students pursue an IB diploma and students have an automatic out, assuming they can arrange for transportation, to attend a higher ranked AP school. I don't have it available now, but I've seen historical data on the number of transfers from Lee to West Springfield, Annandale to Woodson, and Mount Vernon to West Potomac. There were a lot of pupil placements.

IB is a plus for Marshall, because it's surrounded by AP schools. So, even though IB is less popular than AP, one IB school surrounded by four AP schools will benefit from pupil placements. To some extent, that's happening at South Lakes now, too. Unfortunately, it's not the model throughout the county, so the schools that get screwed are the IB schools close to one another. Both Mount Vernon and Stuart, IB schools, are on a watch list of schools at risk of losing state accreditation.

FCPS doesn't like to admit that it may have made a mistake, or ever take away a program that it's introduced somewhere. If we are in cost-cutting times, however, the sensible thing for FCPS to do is look at both the higher costs associated with IB (coordinators, teacher training, IBO fees, etc.) and the IB and AP participation rates for lower SES students at different county schools. Unless they can conclude that, somehow, the majority of the students at schools like Lee, Annandale, etc. are getting a benefit from IB, they ought to get rid of it. AP works well elsewhere, and reintroducing AP at schools like Lee might stem the flow of out-bound pupil placements.

Keeping IB schools in central parts of the county, like the Annandale area, would make them accessible to anyone in the county that really wanted IB for their kids while preventing the county from losing their entire IB investment (trained teachers, etc). But otherwise, IB should be scaled way back to save money.

I like IB and my kids are at an IB school where the program is very popular. I would, however, be open to thinking about other alternatives at schools where it is undersubscribed.

That said, I would make this contingent upon getting rid of AAP Centers in many areas. That is a financial drain as well and the necessity of busing kids to find a "critical mass of their intellectual peers," in McLean, Vienna and Great Falls to name a few places, is ridiculous. To people who argue that it is only the cost of buses, I disagree. An outsized portion of all the extra funds and parental support goes to these schools to the detriment of everyone else.

And unlike IB schools, many in FCPS, including the school board members already agree that FCPS has made a mistake with the hyper-expansion of the AAP program.

[Anonymous]

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Our time on this earth is limited. Be bold.

About what?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:.

Our time on this earth is limited. Be bold.

About what?

Recognizing when an expensive program is not worth the money spent on it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:.

Our time on this earth is limited. Be bold.

About what?

Recognizing when an expensive program is not worth the money spent on it.

Well, may be people believe it IS worth the money. It's not your call is it?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

I think you are ignoring the table and simply asking a question more to your own liking.

Who cares if 100% of the IB diploma candidates get an IB diploma if we're paying through the nose for an under-subscribed program?

Wait. You don't care if 100% of the IB diploma candidates get diplomas???

If 1% of the high school takes IB and 100% of the 1% get the diploma, it's still only 1% of the student body and so not worth the cost.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I think you are ignoring the table and simply asking a question more to your own liking.

Who cares if 100% of the IB diploma candidates get an IB diploma if we're paying through the nose for an under-subscribed program?

Wait. You don't care if 100% of the IB diploma candidates get diplomas???

If 1% of the high school takes IB and 100% of the 1% get the diploma, it's still only 1% of the student body and so not worth the cost.

Education is an investment. Not a business transaction. Why support AP? AAP? TJ? or any other school programs? Where does it end?