IB Program- What is it? IB or AP?
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Anonymous
| I don't really understand the IB program. Can anyone explain what it is and how it differs from AP classes? I have a rising 8th grader and we're looking at where he will go to high school- Langley or Marshall. |
Anonymous
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The quick and dirty answer -- IB is a very rigorous program of studies. You can earn the IB diploma by taking a series of classes (many are 2 yrs long) and taking the tests at the end, plus you have a written project and service hours to do. It is focus more on a cohesive philosophy of learning with a global influence. Most people who start into it do not finish it and you won't know if you get the IB degree until after you have graduated.
AP is a set of stand-alone courses that last one year each with a test at the end. You can take one or 10, but none of them are necessarily related to the others (unless it is a higher level of the same subject). AP is considered better suited to kids with math/science interests b/c there are more offerings than under IB in those subjects. Colleges are now giving credit for both AP and IB classes, but each college can set a different score for which they will give credit. Some colleges will not give credit for AP/IB classes if those classes are part of your major program of study (i.e. you may have to take calculus at StateU if you want to be an engineering major even though you passed the AP Calculus exam in HS. If you are a biology major, they may give you credit for it.) IMO IB sounds like a great program (from an adult perspective), but in practice most kids find it too onerous or limiting even when they had full intentions of completing it when they started. AP allows for much more of a "pick and choose" process. If you are zoned for an IB school, you can opt out to go to the assigned AP school, but you will have to provide your own transportation and you must take at least 4 AP classes. |
Anonymous
| You have more choices with the AP program. Lots more flexibility of which classes to take. And, there are LOTs of options in the language arts area, as well. It is NOT just for those interested in math and science. There are APs in the languages, history, art, and other humanities areas. That is why it is so much more flexible than the IB program. There are so many more choices. |
Anonymous
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I did IB back when it was relatively new in my area (not DC). It was amazing, and I credit it with helping me develop excellent study habits that served me well in college. With that said, I was in a large public high school, so what IB offered was a tiny core of dedicated classmates with whom I had many of my courses. That comraderie was probably almost as important as the academics.
Here, though, where so many kids are also excelling and dedicated, that aspect is probably less important. |
Anonymous
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Do not go to an IB school. The whole program is smoke and mirrors. The supposed "IB philosophy" is nothing more than best practices for teaching, and the same methods are widely used at other non-IB schools. The grading system is ridiculous, biased against American students, and is likely to pull down your GPA. AP schools have many more choices, and their value is well-understood by American colleges.
The only advantage to an IB diploma is for the student who plans to study in Europe after high school, or in Canada. In those universities, IB credits are easily transferable. |
Anonymous
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IB has its strengths, but it's telling that FCPS hasn't introduced IB to a high school for over a decade and that most of the high-performing high schools in the county, including Langley, are AP schools. If IB either did a better job than AP preparing students for college or gave them an advantage in the college admissions process, you'd expect to see the opposite. The watershed seems to have been when FCPS tried to convert Woodson from AP to IB, and the parents objected and forced FCPS to abandon that plan. FCPS has been adding some IB programs at the primary and middle school level, but that appears to be intended to shore up struggling IB high schools where very few students are pursuing IB diplomas. |
Anonymous
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For a bigger overview of IB and AP, go to this link for FCPS Advanced Academics programs in high school. There are links here to details about both IB and AP: http://www.fcps.edu/is/aap/continuum/hs.shtml Consider visiting the schools and talking with the IB coordinators at Marshall and whoever coordinates AP at Langley. IB schools have designated coordinators who oversee the whole IB program; I don't know how that would work in an AP school but I'm sure Langley has dealt with these questions as well. Marshall has two "IB information nights" each year, one in early December (check that date, OP!) and one in the spring. At these nights, IB students currently in the program talk and answer questions about it, and teachers and coordinators--as well as parents with kids now in IB--talk to you as well. I strongly advise that you get to the first one, in the fall, and not wait until spring, so you have information earlier in the school year when your son need to make a choice. Absolutely take your son with you to hear the presentation and to hear from the students. The IB information night really told us a huge amount about IB from those actually doing it right now. Full dislosure: We just "pupil placed" our eighth grader from our assigned HS to Marshall for IB. It's true as posted above that it is rigorous and more "prescriptive" than AP. But there is some flexibility in IB and there are IB electives, not just IB core courses. AP is "a la carte." You take it class by class. You can take one AP class in one subject and never take another one in any other subject, or you can take loads of AP classes. With IB there is more of a connected progression of classes. You could look at the specific AP class offerings at Langley and the IB class offerings at Marshall with your son and see what specific classes at each would most interest him. One thing to know: While not everyone gets the full IB diploma, kids can also take some IB classes a la carte, without going for the diploma track. Those going to for the full IB diploma have a more prescribed track. IB diploma candidates must do the "Extended Essay" which is a research paper of 4,000 words on a topic of their choice. It's done a lot like a college writing project, with the student working with an adviser, doing drafts, etc., but the research and writing is on his or her own. I know two families who both pupil placed all their kids to IB largely for this experience and for the other big diploma requirement, the Theory of Knowledge seminar, which operates a lot like a college seminar. Those families all said they felt their kids were very well prepared for college because of those two elements of IB. The programs' reputation among some FCPS parents and students we talked to, when choosing, was that "AP is better for science and math, IB is for kids who like to write," but that's a narrow view. Yes, IB does expect more writing, especially for kids on the diploma track, but in talking with current IB students there were several who were highly focused on biology or chemistry and planning to pursue those in college as well. And I know one AP student who wants to pursue English and writing in college and is focusing her AP courses there. So either is what the student makes of it. There is also a lot of focus in this competitive area on the notion that "AP gets you out of college classes because you get credits but colleges don't like IB and you won't get credits for it." As the poster at 8:45 rightly noted, that's not necessarily the case. |
Anonymous
I don't know how it works, but several graduates of our AP high school are heading off to McGill and other universities in Canada this fall, as well as to other foreign universities in Europe and other continents. The Langley senior who just served as the student representative on the School Board is going to the University of St. Andrew's in Scotland. An IB diploma might put American-educated students attending a foreign university on a more similar footing to their classmates, but graduates of AP schools do attend universities outside the United States. |
Anonymous
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IB is a wonderful program if implemented correctly. But it takes resources and time to do so - hiring qualified teachers, training, and such. Another key difference is IB is a structured PROGRAM (vs. AP's course specific approach) meaning students have to take certain courses/meet certain criteria. People who do not understand the IB view this as "rigid" or "not very flexible"...etc. IB is goal is to produce well-rounded students.
The problem is schools are jumping into IB without proper planning, resources, or understanding. It's not the program that's problematic, it's the implementation. |
Anonymous
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Different perspective here - we moved out of the Marshall district, so we could be in an AP high school district. We hadn't been particularly focused on the relative strengths and weaknesses of AP and IB when we purchased our house, but as our kids got older and we did more research there were several things that bothered us.
First, regardless of how much interest there is in IB at an IB high school, the IBO requires that school to revolve around the IB diploma "programme." To us, that raised resource allocation issues - would the school be precluded from offering certain courses because it had to make other IB courses available, regardless of the level of interest? Second, we felt that, if our kids bailed on the full IB diploma program, they'd effectively become second-class citizens within the school, in a way that would not be the case at an AP school, where the number of AP courses that kids varies along a sliding scale. Third, we'd heard stories of IB diploma students who felt they'd missed out on the opportunity to pursue other interests because the diploma program was so demanding and prescriptive, yet ended up with the same college options as students at AP schools who'd been able to exercise more control over their course selection and other school activities. There tends to be a lot of focus on kids who allegedly take 15 AP courses in high school and "burn out," but less focus on the heavy demands made on IB diploma students who try to juggle other interests. Fourth, we felt that IB was rather heavy on PC jargon, such as turning students into "global citizens" and the like. We're not Tea Party types by any stretch, but there seemed to be an overtly political component to IB that you do not find in AP. FCPS has subsequently started to use some of the same gauzy language in its descriptions of its educational objectives, but it seemed more pointed in the IB context. At the end of the day, I'm sure Marshall would have been OK, but we were happy to move to an AP school that is a bit more traditional. At some level, IB felt like a "trendy" program that FCPS had gotten infatuated with in the 1990s, and then steadfastly kept in place even though it never attracted the level of interest that FCPS had anticipated. |
Anonymous
| OP here. Thanks for the replies- very helpful! |
Anonymous
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[Up]
It seems to me that the advanced diploma offered at AP schools shares the goal of producing well-rounded students. This concept is hardly unique to IB, but, of course, it would be just like the IB boosters to try to suggest that it is. PP, you make it sound as if students at AP-based schools can take whatever they like, and the fact is, there are specific requirements: a specific amount of math, science, foreign language, etc. to produce a well-rounded student. As for IB implementation, I think there are plenty of highly qualified teachers in this area. However, it's pretty impossible to install the IB program here the way it is in Europe. American schools are not organized by grades 4-8 and 10-12 like the IB program is. There are also SOLs (or Common Core) requirements that need to be met by American schools that can be at odds with IB goals. This is not the fault of any individual American state or school district. The IBO seems all too happy to take the money of the U.S. school systems, but not at all willing to make changes to its program that would make it easier for U.S. schools to implement it. As a result, IB programs are a waste of money for U.S. schools. And if Fairfax Co. is looking for ways to save money, scrapping IB would be a great way to do it. |
Anonymous
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Can anyone with children in IB at "lower performing" Fairfax County HSs speak to whether their students received good instruction and feedback for writing? My only concern with IB is poor teaching.
Implementation, as a pp mentioned makes all the difference. The very top students at any FFX HS are entirely capable of top performance. If they do not receive quality writing feedback and instruction, they will not be progressing at the same pace as peers at other schools. I have no concern about college acceptance or credit for college courses. I want quality HS teachers teaching quality HS classes. Can anyone speak to Mt. Vernon, Edison and Annandale? TIA |
Anonymous
+1 Given how underutilized the program is in many FCPS IB high schools, this is an excellent idea. For some reason, however, the IB program has become a sacred cow in Fairfax. |
Anonymous
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The skeptic in me thinks that FCPS doesn't want to cut back on IB because few would care too much if FCPS only had two or three IB high schools, rather than eight.
It's always better PR to suggest that, absent additional funding, cuts are imminent in programs that people care about, whether it's music, sports, AAP, foreign language instruction or full-day Mondays. |