wow- Lance Armstrong is a sociopath

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Scientifically speaking this was a very intreating. There are probably many people in our society who are exhibit some or all of these traits. Which ones are more significant than others? How many of these characteristics must be demonstrable for a person to be diagnosed as a sociopath? Which traits among this list does he lack which help you to believe Mr. Armstrong is not a sociopath? What might be an indication that an individual has crossed the line from being a sociopath to being a psychopath??

OMG, just audit the Psych 101 course at Harvard on the Pike already. Jesus. Or read one of the several dozen books on this in the self-help section. Jon Ronson's The Psychopath Test is supposed to be excellent.

Thank you. One more time. Narcissist, not sociopath.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This whole story, and the vitriol it has provoked, tells you a lot about America.

It was clear at the time he was winning that he was doping. Yet he was a huge hero to you all.

Now he is down, everyone lines up to kick him with everything they have. Sociopath, sh!t, etc.

Why this about-face? Because Americans love winners, and hate losers. You celebrate sociopaths when they are winning, but can't wait to kick a "loser" when he is down.

Shame on you all - for celebrating the cheater when he was winning, and for piling on once it has been decided he is a loser.

Oh please, if Lars Ulrich or Ivan Basso won they would be celebrated in their countries too. I have followed cycling for many years once Ulrich, Basso, and many on the Euro teams had the huge doping scandal, it was clear to me that Armstrong was doping too. Cycling has a LONG history of cheating and doping. Most Americans don't follow cycling and are unaware of the doping history. I think the outrage is from Armstrong's years of denial and a general American love of "the underdog". Armstrong had cancer, beat it, and then won TdF.

I love how other countries LOVE to criticize America, yet when something happens you want us to help. America, for all its problems, is a pretty good place to live, especially if you are a woman.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Enough said.......

He cheated at bicycle racing--bicycle racing! Who in the hell cares about bicycle racing and whether some cheats, it might as well be horse shoes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Enough said.......

He cheated at bicycle racing--bicycle racing! Who in the hell cares about bicycle racing and whether some cheats, it might as well be horse shoes.

I think a lot of PPs have said - and I agree - that we don't care about the doping. We care about the way that he treated people, attacked them, sued them for defamation (and won millions - even though ultimately they were right), and cast off / cut off people who he perceived to stand in his way. He's a heartless man and a bully. That's why I don't like Lance Armstrong. The fact that he doped is a non-issue for me, though it does show a complete lack of integrity.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Enough said.......

He cheated at bicycle racing--bicycle racing! Who in the hell cares about bicycle racing and whether some cheats, it might as well be horse shoes.

The people who bought his books care because the books were a sham. The people who spent hours watching him race care about their wasted time. The sponsors who paid hundreds of millions of dollars for an image that was false care. The racers who spent their entire career knowing they could never win clean and either struggled in obscurity or gave up their dream. They care. The people who gave to his charitable foundation because he was a symbol of what you could do after cancer care. The cancer patients who looked up to him during their crisis care.

Sorry if they all seem silly to you.

[Anonymous]

I'm sure I'm in the minority here but I actually feel bad for the guy. I can't quite put my finger on why, and I'm not making any excuses for him, but it seems the way he was raised had a lot to do with his "win at all costs, take no prisoners" mantra. After reading his first book, I came away thinking that he is an incredible asshole but I felt he had been that way since he was a pre-teen; behavior that mirrored his mother's behavior (not saying she was/is an a-hole but based on what he wrote she seemed to be one tough lady who didn't take shit). He started this life a bitter, broken boy raised by a tough as nails mother. People like that don't learn empathy or compassion; they always feel like it's "me against the world"; they don't understand fairness because in their view "life isn't fair". When he got into a sport that was riddled with doping and deceit, why would he rise above that when his view was most likely "can't beat 'em, join 'em."

Someone like Lance Armstrong can only change when everything comes crashing down. In his case, it happened twice. He seems to be a good, caring father. There is no judgment or validation like the judgment or validation from your children; good and bad. Now that it has sunk in that his children have been hurt by all of his lies and deceit, he recognizes, on some level, that he is no better than the biological father that he hates and who hurt him by not wanting to be a part of his life. Oprah asked what was the moral of the story and he didn't have a good answer. Lance's story is a semester long class on integrity, ethics and lying and why people do it in the manner in which he did it.

It's too easy to say that he is an a-hole, jerk, bully, etc... Yes! He is all of those things but there is a reason why and he just didn't know how to stop it. I hope he is able to forgive himself when the time is right.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Enough said.......

He cheated at bicycle racing--bicycle racing! Who in the hell cares about bicycle racing and whether some cheats, it might as well be horse shoes.

You do realize that the American taxpayer funded $40 million dollars toward his USPS racing team, right? Last I heard, my taxes aren't going to people playing horse shoes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Come on people. Lance should be given a medal. He freaking beat the system 7 times in a row. Never tested positive in competition. How can you not applaud that fact? He's a genius!

...thus says the sociopath!

It's a good thing I am one coz such comments don't mean jack to me

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This whole story, and the vitriol it has provoked, tells you a lot about America.

It was clear at the time he was winning that he was doping. Yet he was a huge hero to you all.

Now he is down, everyone lines up to kick him with everything they have. Sociopath, sh!t, etc.

Why this about-face? Because Americans love winners, and hate losers. You celebrate sociopaths when they are winning, but can't wait to kick a "loser" when he is down.

Shame on you all - for celebrating the cheater when he was winning, and for piling on once it has been decided he is a loser.

First of all, plenty of doping racers in other countries have gone through the same thing. I think it is your unfamiliarity with the sport and its fans at work here.

Second, aside from the level of success, you have little to point to. It was not "clear" to the people paid to catch him for many years. Lots of athletes have had as amazing levels of success. Michael Phelps, 22 medals + his world championships over a very lengthy time frame. Roger Federer, Pete Sampras, probably each had 20 Grand Slam event wins. Joe Louis, in a sport requiring sheer physical strength, defended his title 25 times in an era that predates steroids. So is it equally clear to you that they are all dopers?

It is easy to say in hindsight that it was obvious. But it was not obvious. You are a monday morning quarterback on this one.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm sure I'm in the minority here but I actually feel bad for the guy. I can't quite put my finger on why, and I'm not making any excuses for him, but it seems the way he was raised had a lot to do with his "win at all costs, take no prisoners" mantra. After reading his first book, I came away thinking that he is an incredible asshole but I felt he had been that way since he was a pre-teen; behavior that mirrored his mother's behavior (not saying she was/is an a-hole but based on what he wrote she seemed to be one tough lady who didn't take shit). He started this life a bitter, broken boy raised by a tough as nails mother. People like that don't learn empathy or compassion; they always feel like it's "me against the world"; they don't understand fairness because in their view "life isn't fair". When he got into a sport that was riddled with doping and deceit, why would he rise above that when his view was most likely "can't beat 'em, join 'em."

Someone like Lance Armstrong can only change when everything comes crashing down. In his case, it happened twice. He seems to be a good, caring father. There is no judgment or validation like the judgment or validation from your children; good and bad. Now that it has sunk in that his children have been hurt by all of his lies and deceit, he recognizes, on some level, that he is no better than the biological father that he hates and who hurt him by not wanting to be a part of his life. Oprah asked what was the moral of the story and he didn't have a good answer. Lance's story is a semester long class on integrity, ethics and lying and why people do it in the manner in which he did it.

It's too easy to say that he is an a-hole, jerk, bully, etc... Yes! He is all of those things but there is a reason why and he just didn't know how to stop it. I hope he is able to forgive himself when the time is right.

Interesting analysis. Thanks. I think this makes the case for an extreme narcissist as the best description of his character pathology.

[Anonymous]

"Do you have any idea how shitty life is for the majority of the human beings who live on this planet and we're obsessing about some guy in spandex took drugs to help him win a bicycle race through the French countryside. Whew ... Talk about drinking the Kool-Aid."

hahahaha!! Thanks so much for this. I just made it my FB status a minute ago and it already has three likes

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:"Do you have any idea how shitty life is for the majority of the human beings who live on this planet and we're obsessing about some guy in spandex took drugs to help him win a bicycle race through the French countryside. Whew ... Talk about drinking the Kool-Aid."

hahahaha!! Thanks so much for this. I just made it my FB status a minute ago and it already has three likes

Well, if defrauding the government is a-ok with you, then I guess I see your point about the Kool-aid. I'm sure you're posting from the slums of India right now where you're helping the poor and downtrodden of the world.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Enough said.......

He cheated at bicycle racing--bicycle racing! Who in the hell cares about bicycle racing and whether some cheats, it might as well be horse shoes.

You do realize that the American taxpayer funded $40 million dollars toward his USPS racing team, right? Last I heard, my taxes aren't going to people playing horse shoes.

Isn't USPS self-funded?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:my 2 cents. i never liked him and i always knew he doped. thought he was a sociopath before and still think he is one. but he's right -- he was levelling the playing field. feel sorry for the guy who came in 20th place (or wherever) b/c he really won. and greg lemond was always right.

actually, Jonathan Vaughters, director of Garmin and former doper who now runs a clean team, points out that doping doesn't level the playing field because different people get different levels of benefit from doping.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This whole story, and the vitriol it has provoked, tells you a lot about America.

It was clear at the time he was winning that he was doping. Yet he was a huge hero to you all.

Now he is down, everyone lines up to kick him with everything they have. Sociopath, sh!t, etc.

Why this about-face? Because Americans love winners, and hate losers. You celebrate sociopaths when they are winning, but can't wait to kick a "loser" when he is down.

Shame on you all - for celebrating the cheater when he was winning, and for piling on once it has been decided he is a loser.

i generally agree, but disagree with the anti-american tone. like this shit is unique to the US.
one thing i said to my husband is that i don't get why people are so upset he didn't apologize. we've known for THIRTEEN years he was a doper. there have been TONS of witnesses who've come out. and these fellow cyclists who are so pissed that he didn't apologize? c'mon, lance might have been a bully and the ringleader, but he didn't put a gun to your head. you did it and you let him win. you didn't even try to take it for yourself.

Emma O'Reilly, Mike Anderson, Betsy Andreu. People who didn't dope. People who told the truth. People who suffered for telling the truth.