Flora Singer ES

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Principals can't just get rid of teachers. It's not that easy. especially if the teacher is a minority.

what does this mean
what does that have to do with it?
generalize much?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Principals can't just get rid of teachers. It's not that easy. especially if the teacher is a minority.

what does this mean
what does that have to do with it?
generalize much?

If the teacher is new (first 3 years or new to MCPS), it's easier to get rid of him or her especially if the consulting teacher and the principal are on the same page.
If the principal wants to get rid of a teacher for whatever reason but the consulting teacher does not agree, they can go to the union and file a grievance.
I have also experienced a couple of cases where the consulting teacher found the new teachers subpar and suggested non renewal of their contract (parents happy, students happy, principal happy). The principal testified on behalf of the teacher and the contract was renewed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Principals can't just get rid of teachers. It's not that easy. especially if the teacher is a minority.

what does this mean
what does that have to do with it?
generalize much?

If the teacher is new (first 3 years or new to MCPS), it's easier to get rid of him or her especially if the consulting teacher and the principal are on the same page.
If the principal wants to get rid of a teacher for whatever reason but the consulting teacher does not agree, they can go to the union and file a grievance.
I have also experienced a couple of cases where the consulting teacher found the new teachers subpar and suggested non renewal of their contract (parents happy, students happy, principal happy). The principal testified on behalf of the teacher and the contract was renewed.

I was talking about the minority part
Sigh

[Anonymous]

Um, because mcps has to outweigh the costs of defending litigation. Anyone who works in the govt understands this. A cost benefit analysis goes on. Essentially teachers have to do something egregious to be let go or fired. Lots of subpar teachers simply get shuffled around (with the hope that they will get sick of it and leave). Happens all the time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Um, because mcps has to outweigh the costs of defending litigation. Anyone who works in the govt understands this. A cost benefit analysis goes on. Essentially teachers have to do something egregious to be let go or fired. Lots of subpar teachers simply get shuffled around (with the hope that they will get sick of it and leave). Happens all the time.

Again I was questioning the minority ascertion
as if minorities will akways sue

[Anonymous]

Obviously they don't always sue....but the MCPS GC (and any govt or corporate or even nonprofit GC) does a risk assessment and factors in a racial discrimination lawsuit. It is what it is.

I personally know an AA man who worked for county govt who was sued by an employee for sexual harassment. She won, and he was NOT fired due to the costs associated with his possible litigation (ie: suing his employer for discrimination). So they transferred him (lateral move, same pay)....and he still sued for discrimination (again, he was moved after his female employee successfully sued him for sexual harassment). And the govt settled out f court with him....cheaper than defending a lawsuit. I could give more examples, but I'll spare you. But please do understand that principals really aren't in the position to get rid of subpar teachers. So if a teacher (or principal) is fired (or even transferred against their will), then something MAJOR prompted that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Obviously they don't always sue....but the MCPS GC (and any govt or corporate or even nonprofit GC) does a risk assessment and factors in a racial discrimination lawsuit. It is what it is.

I personally know an AA man who worked for county govt who was sued by an employee for sexual harassment. She won, and he was NOT fired due to the costs associated with his possible litigation (ie: suing his employer for discrimination). So they transferred him (lateral move, same pay)....and he still sued for discrimination (again, he was moved after his female employee successfully sued him for sexual harassment). And the govt settled out f court with him....cheaper than defending a lawsuit. I could give more examples, but I'll spare you. But please do understand that principals really aren't in the position to get rid of subpar teachers. So if a teacher (or principal) is fired (or even transferred against their will), then something MAJOR prompted that.

Well, I personally know a lot of AA's too ( oh wait -- I am one) and we don't all go around suing everyone
It just really bugs the snot out of me that in this extremely litigious society in which ALL kinds of people sue one another, you have people implying that people are more litigious than others
just a ridiculous ascertion

[Anonymous]

^^
meant to say "people of color"

[Anonymous]

Is it a well known fact in the community that there is a sub par teacher at otes? Has anyone had this teacher personally? I'm curious what grade she/he teaches.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Principals can't just get rid of teachers. It's not that easy. especially if the teacher is a minority.

It doesn't matter if the teacher is a minority. There is a process for dealing with contracted teachers who are not meeting standards. The principal has the power to start this process, but does not get a final say in "firing" the teacher. Speaking generally, the principal should counsel the teacher throughout the year to address the issues, but if the teacher does not get better, the principal can place him or her on PAR for the following school year. During that year, the teacher is assigned a consulting teacher who observes (unannounced) and meets with the teacher many, many times during the school (once a week in the beginning, then less frequently as the year progresses/things improve). The teacher would also be observed frequently by administration to document any issues. In the spring, the consulting teacher will tell the teacher on PAR what his or her recommendation will be for the teacher's future. There is a meeting with a panel consisting of administrators and other consulting teachers who review the teacher's year and make the formal decision. The options are generally continue on at the school (issues corrected), dismissal from the county (issues not corrected), or have another year with a consulting teacher (progress made, but still need support). The teacher on PAR has the option to appeal, but generally won't get very far without the support of the principal.

If there is an inferior teacher at OTES that parents dislike, the principal apparently does not agree.
Long post just to say... whatever the situation was with the K teacher at FSES was not a matter of a normal contracted teacher being fired by a principal based on parent demands. The K teacher was likely NOT a contracted teacher (long term substitute filling a vacancy for which a contracted teacher could not be found), and any "legal reasons" may have been falsifying certification or credits and thus not even been eligible for the position.

I think it is accurate to say that the principal at OTES does not agree that the teacher is bad. But most parents do agree. That is actually the point. Despite the fact that numerous parents have complained, the principal has made up her mind. Most teachers at OTES are very good so unless your child has this particular teacher he or she will most likley have a very good experience.

Most parents?
List the grade.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Principals can't just get rid of teachers. It's not that easy. especially if the teacher is a minority.

what does this mean
what does that have to do with it?
generalize much?

Don't agree with this. however, schools want to have minorities as staff members (including male teachers, especially at the elementary level).
A teacher's life can be made intolerable, and under those conditions it's quite tough to teach.
Sometimes a principal is told to get rid of a specific teacher (happens mostly in Art, PE and Music) to create an opening for a particular person. So the harrassment starts, and then the teacher gets written up for everything and anything.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Is it a well known fact in the community that there is a sub par teacher at otes? Has anyone had this teacher personally? I'm curious what grade she/he teaches.

I'm an OTES parent and interested in this info too...but of course something being a "well known fact shared by all" is doubtful to say the least. Some teachers will appeal to some parents, but not all. We had a K teacher last year that some parents have complained about (not about being bad at actually teaching though) in the past but we LOVED her and thought she was excellent. Also, I highly respect Ms. Pulliam's opinion...it's not for nothing to me if she thinks this "bad" teacher is not in fact bad.

[Anonymous]

Our child had a 1st grade teacher who many people warned us about, and we found that while she was not the most commanding in the classroom, she was very attentive to our child's needs and receptive to our questions and concerns, and our child learned a great deal that year.

[Anonymous]

Why would parents complain about a teacher but not about her teaching? That doesn't make sense.

[Anonymous]

Most teachers at OTES are good. The point was that when there is a bad one, the admin is unresponsive.