CHARTERS MAY MERGE AT WALTER REED (The DC International School, IB Diploma Programme)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:"Yu Ying already practices ability grouping as well as tier two tracking."

Um, YY parent here.

There is a track for kids who can't read in English.

The notion that there is true tracking by ability at YY is not true. Bored doesn't even begin to sum up my child's experience at YY. At least it's only every other day and DC finds Chinese enjoyable.

The notion that YY leadership has the ability to create a competitive high school is laughable. You've got some business smarts there, but nothing in regard to curriculum, instruction and hiring and retaining high skilled instructors.

Best of luck, but we're headed out to private.

Yay! So happy that you may finally be at a school that'll be satisfactory. Hope it all works out and you aren't so miserable there. What took so long...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So, interviewers, what DOES it take to get into one of the higly selective colleges from a DC public school?

Little Ivy Interviewer here. Here's what I've seen other applicants do that DCPS and Latin kids generally don't:

*Score 700s on all three sections of the SAT if high-SES, and at least mid 600s if low-SES/FARMs. Take the SAT multiple times if necessary. Making the 700 cuts only means that an application is read - Ivies/Little Ivies now reject around 3/4 of the kids with at least one perfect SAT score. A kid's chances of admission rise from around 10% to 15% if they score in the 750-800 range on a section rather than in the 700-750 range. Banneker's average SAT scores are in the 480-520 range. Don't know what Latin's are, but not 700s.

*Pick a favorite school and apply Early Action/Decision in October, even if binding. Chances of admission double by applying early.

*If language immersion in ES, have immersion experiences in MS and HS during summers/breaks. Low-SES kids can apply for foundation grants to participate in immersion camps, domestically and abroad. MoCo and Fairfax fund such camps for low-SES kids, DC isn't doing this. If high-SES with enough space in the home, hire a series of part-time au pairs speaking the immersion language, possible through the State Dept. program to age 12, if at least one of the parents isn't fluent in it.

*Participate in the Johns Hopkins CTY camps (nearest at campus of St. Stephens and St. Agnes in VA), preferably from the summer after 2nd grade through MS. The MS camps are sleep-over camps. Hopkins waives the $2,500 - $4,000 fee for FARMs kids. Participate in the Stanford University EPSY on-line programs for gifted youth, particularly for math and science. MS kids can also do Kumon, Saxon and Khan Academy math on-line.

*Take algebra no later than the 7th grade, even if humanities oriented. If a DC PS doesn't offer it before 8th grade, takes it during the summer at a Johns Hopkins camp or via Stanford EPSY.

*If the school offers IB, pursue the full diploma and score 40+ (schools can revoke admissions offers for a low total score). Even if a school offers IB, take AP language exams (no longer any need to take AP courses to take exams) or SAT II language exams and get 700s+ (or retake). Do this because IB test scores don't come out until after HS graduation, which can handicap IB kids. If a school does not offer IB, take at least 7 AP tests, preferably 10. Score all 4s and 5s, even if low-SES. Retake any tests where the score is a 3 or lower. If a humanities student, take 2 IB and AP language tests, or just 2 AP.

*Pursue unusual extra-curriculars and summer activities, preferably one of a kind involving travel/volunteering.

*If science-oriented, enter at least one of the national science or team robotics competitions with a mentor from 10th grade, or the NIH high school research program. Do not stop at AB calculus and physics (one year), take the second year/level, BC, through self-study if necessary.

Not every applicant does all this of course, but I've never seen one fail who did and I've interviewed around 80. One caveat: the "rules" for top HS athletes, actors and musicians are different. Hope this helps.

Wow, I got into an Ivy 15 years ago for undergrad (humanities/social sciences) and I didn't do the majority of your list--just good SAT score, grades, school leadership and volunteering. And I attended a standard/average parochial school for MS/HS. What happened??!!

Not PP. Which part of the country did you apply? It makes a difference if you are from NYC/Westchester, Bethesda/CC/DC, Boston, etc. and the rest of the country. It's tough and highly competitive to get in from these areas and while it's gotten somewhat worse since the 80ties when I went, the kids who get into the Ivies then and now are the very top. THAT hasn't changed at all. I went to an Ivy and met a lot of other kids from most of the elite schools doing debate and invariably if they were from DC, it was from Bethesda/CC; Chicago, New Trier; NYC, Hunter, Stuy, etc. I'm sure that hasn't changed much.

That said, we're willing to see how DCI will work out. Certainly, a good middle school option is welcome. While I am a fan of ability tracking and testing for admissions in high school, middle school not so much. Like PP said, as long as they have algebra in 7th grade and geometry by 8th - it'll be enough.

Philadelphia--I was at the top of my class (#2) and was waitlisted at Columbia and accepted at U of Penn; the number #1 kid went to Harvard.

[Anonymous]

"This is nonsense. Yu Ying already practices ability grouping as well as tier two tracking. DCI is an extension of YY, with other immersion schools thrown in the mix for sustainability. I don't know which of the immersion schools will control DCI, but I guarantee that because the majority of the space has been designated to YY, YY will have much influence. So enough about the doomsday gloomy inability to group children's academic ability. It's already happening."

It is happening, but the two-tier (AA-white/Asian) tracking at YY has generated painfully bad press for the school, and been highly controversial, hasn't it? It's not a comfortable subject. YY is not short on high-SES parents who'd rather see the school do what suburban immersion schools do, take fewer low-SES kids but ensure that those enrolled can and do thrive by the providing necessary inputs, however expensive (e.g. funded immersion summer camps). I'm one of the few YY parents convinced that low-SES kids would benefit from having many more bilingual peers to model the language and culture for them, particularly low-SES Chinese-speakers. My kid often has play dates with one of the few bilingual kids (from a high-SES family) and improves his Mandarin and cultural understanding by spending time with this child's family. It's not "academic ability" that underpins the two tiers, it's race, class and poor planning.

I don't see DCI on a smooth path to extensive ability grouping because YY is already doing some. The gap between the low-SES and high-SES kids will grow at the MS level, adding to the controversy. Too many of the high-SES families don't seem sold on the DCI concept, or city middle schools in general, which concerns me - they're quietly preparing their kids to take admissions tests for privates, or considering moving. The problems Latin and Two Rivers have faced in keeping white and Asian kids for HS are not lost on this crowd.

[Anonymous]

"Latin tests for math when a student enters the school and offers Algebra in 7th grade. Kids are offered electives. The kids who need extra help are given it during electives, other kids do enrichment activities. Latin also has summer school for kids who need extra help. Perfect, no, but my child is working about two years above where I worked at the same age (I base this on the books he is assigned and the amount of writing required, as well as math). My child has the grades to apply to SWW, but we will probably stay for HS (we went to ivies and are optimistic that our child will as well if that is what he wants). Every HS parent I have met thinks highly of the college counselor."

Sounds like your kids just finished 7th grade. There's a reason most high-SES families leave Latin before HS, and it's not because the school is bent on propelling kids to top universities (but then, for the most part, neither are Wilson or SWW). The college counselor knows her stuff on the liberal arts colleges applications scene, but you might want to talk to her now, ask her what she knows about Ivy admissions, Stanford, Georgetown, honors state school programs etc. She's not into any of that. I also attended Ivies but left after 8th for a private, feeling torn but quietly concerned about the number of weak students entering HS. Yes, my DC was doing more challenging work than I did in MS, but that wouldn't necessarily enable him to keep up with peers at selective admissions high schools (private and public) not when every DC charter's focus is seeing low-SES kids off to college. I'm watching DCI's development for my younger child but expect to have the same concerns.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:"This is nonsense. Yu Ying already practices ability grouping as well as tier two tracking. DCI is an extension of YY, with other immersion schools thrown in the mix for sustainability. I don't know which of the immersion schools will control DCI, but I guarantee that because the majority of the space has been designated to YY, YY will have much influence. So enough about the doomsday gloomy inability to group children's academic ability. It's already happening."

It is happening, but the two-tier (AA-white/Asian) tracking at YY has generated painfully bad press for the school, and been highly controversial, hasn't it? It's not a comfortable subject. YY is not short on high-SES parents who'd rather see the school do what suburban immersion schools do, take fewer low-SES kids but ensure that those enrolled can and do thrive by the providing necessary inputs, however expensive (e.g. funded immersion summer camps). I'm one of the few YY parents convinced that low-SES kids would benefit from having many more bilingual peers to model the language and culture for them, particularly low-SES Chinese-speakers. My kid often has play dates with one of the few bilingual kids (from a high-SES family) and improves his Mandarin and cultural understanding by spending time with this child's family. It's not "academic ability" that underpins the two tiers, it's race, class and poor planning.

I don't see DCI on a smooth path to extensive ability grouping because YY is already doing some. The gap between the low-SES and high-SES kids will grow at the MS level, adding to the controversy. Too many of the high-SES families don't seem sold on the DCI concept, or city middle schools in general, which concerns me - they're quietly preparing their kids to take admissions tests for privates, or considering moving. The problems Latin and Two Rivers have faced in keeping white and Asian kids for HS are not lost on this crowd.

Why would you think you're one of the few? I don't know a single parent that wouldn't agree with you.

[Anonymous]

Incoming YY PK parent. I haven't heard of anyone (have friends at the school) who wouldn't prefer more bilingual peers. Why would you think you are one of the few who would like that?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Philadelphia--I was at the top of my class (#2) and was waitlisted at Columbia and accepted at U of Penn; the number #1 kid went to Harvard.

Oops forgot about Philly... I should have said the East Coast from Boston to DC. It's tougher to get into an Ivy simply b/c it's so competitive. I got into an Ivy and I was #5 but I'm from the midatlantic not Chicago. The #1 from my class went to Stanford. (Funny, how we remember... so long ago).

I don't know why people are bashing Latin for focusing on small liberal arts colleges. DH was rejected at both Amherst and Williams but got into several Ivies from the Southwest, #2 overall in his class but #1 SAT scores. Generally, people who get accepted at Amherst, Williams, etc. who are not legacies would be accepted at an IVY or equivalent. Latin's focus is on liberal arts not STEM, no?

I was an immigrant Asian kid who learned English after immigrating here at an young age. Don't particularly care about having native speakers for my kid at YY. I spoke English almost exclusively after 2 yrs except to my parents and certainly had no interest in speaking my native language to other kids including ones like me who spoke my native language. My parents certainly would not have sent me to a school like YY since they wanted me to learn and speak English.

[Anonymous]

^^ No bashing involved. As another PP pointed out, the Ivies and Little Ivies essentially share an applicant pool. Latin kids aren't being admitted to either group yet, but then they've only had one graduating class.

"Incoming YY PK parent. I haven't heard of anyone (have friends at the school) who wouldn't prefer more bilingual peers. Why would you think you are one of the few who would like that?"

Did you catch the recent "Ch vs. Sp Immersion thread? Or the similar YY one in Nov? Many YY parents saying we dislike local bilingual Chinese (because they're racist, insular and stuck up), don't want more, don't need them for our kids to learn Mandarin or about Chinese culture, don't support their wish for an ethnic Chinese administrator to be hired, so to hell with them etc. A commonly expressed sentiment was "more bilingual peers, and their parents, would change YY and we don't want that." Another was "we love our non-Chinese, non-Chinese-speaking principal, she's perfect."

Both threads ran to hundreds of posts and contained much virulently anti-Chinese content. It's one thing to say "Hey, more bilingual peers would be great" when, to my knowledge, the YY PA outreach committee doesn't include a Cantonese speaker (Cantonese is the dialect most spoken in the DC bilingual community). The school doesn't keep track of which kids are bilingual, speaking which dialects at home, so when you raise these issues, with administrators and at the PA, educators and parents have cover to deny the deficit. I believe the off-the-record, teacher-furnished 2% bilingual figure, and dropping, being bandied about.

I wasn't actually surprised by the parochial content of the threads. Most of the YY parents I rub shoulders with hardly seem to know a thing about China or the culture, not where the major cities and provinces are located, not the major dialects, nor the major holidays, nor do they seem to care... This is the group posied to help launch the wonderfully international, much in demand and outward-looking DCI.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

I wasn't actually surprised by the parochial content of the threads. Most of the YY parents I rub shoulders with hardly seem to know a thing about China or the culture, not where the major cities and provinces are located, not the major dialects, nor the major holidays, nor do they seem to care... This is the group posied to help launch the wonderfully international, much in demand and outward-looking DCI.

So are you a YY parent? If you have so many issues with the school, you should go elsewhere... and not send your DC to DCI. Easy decision. Hope you find a school that will serves your family's needs b/c YY and the future DCI won't for all the reasons you mentioned.

[Anonymous]

wow! no dog in this fight, but this thread is getting increasingly bizarre!!!

[Anonymous]

For those who read the 16:13 post... I think the poster is mischaracterizing the thread.... I read through all of it (masochist that I am) and don't think the poster's summary is accurate. The poster also neglects to mention the racism (anti-AA) that was also mentioned in this thread.

[Anonymous]

I think to conclude anything based on anonymous posts on DCUM is not rigorous analysis. One has no way of knowing how many people have contributed, and whether they are or are not YY parents.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:12:47, you really think this trip is "once in a lifetime?"

Isn't the purpose of sending your child to a Mandarin immersion program so they could live and work in China someday?

I expect my child will go to China someday, but I don't appreciate being told with whom and when.

I'm not 12:47, but you're kidding, right? How is a class trip in 5th grade not a "once in a lifetime" opportunity?

My junior year of high school I came on a Close-Up trip to Washington, DC for a week. It had a tremendous impact on me, so much so that 20 years later I moved here, and now I can visit the all the important spots anytime I want.

Guess what? That 1-week trip during my impressionable years was a defining once-a-lifetime opportunity. I find it easy to believe that a trip to China (or Belize, or Moscow, or Amsterdam...) would have a profound impact on a young person's life, their interest in studying another language, their perspective on other cultures, and even on their ultimate choice in a career.

If you're so sure you're taking your child to China some day, that's wonderful. Your child might be lucky despite having you as a parent. In the meantime, what is wrong with you that you object to the idea of a group of students raising the money to go to China - Oh! Oh my! - even if they didn't ask your permission?

what does this trip have to do with this thread!?!? can you start your own thread please?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I wasn't actually surprised by the parochial content of the threads. Most of the YY parents I rub shoulders with hardly seem to know a thing about China or the culture, not where the major cities and provinces are located, not the major dialects, nor the major holidays, nor do they seem to care... This is the group posied to help launch the wonderfully international, much in demand and outward-looking DCI.

So are you a YY parent? If you have so many issues with the school, you should go elsewhere... and not send your DC to DCI. Easy decision. Hope you find a school that will serves your family's needs b/c YY and the future DCI won't for all the reasons you mentioned.

Easy to say "go elsehwere, sweetie" off handedly but rarely easy in practice. I rarely post on DCUM and I'm not Chinese, but we just tried to lottery out of yy to schools we hoped would provide rigorous instruction in English and struck out. We're saving for a property in NW to become IB for Deal. The issues raised on the Chinese vs. Spanish thread point not only to serious problems DCI is going to have in cultivating an intl outlook, but problems our society as a whole is going to have in contending with a rising China. I didn't read "anti-AA" comments on the previous thread, I read what Chinese culture is like. This is something the majority of yy parents don't get, or try to, because they've never spent time in Chinese-speaking countries or in Chinese-American communities, haven't studied Chinese, don't have Chinese friends, and aren't planning to. What's "bizarre" is the way some of these charters work, not what annoyed parents/tax payers/voters say about yy. The boosters will have another hissy fit in response. Let 'em, denying reality ad nauseum only works so well.

[Anonymous]

^^I speak some Mandarin, do business in E. Asia and like this post

Dealing with all things Chinese in the mostly AA YY world, and the soon-to-be DCI universe, easy. Dealing with Chinese in China, Hong Kong, Taiwan, Macau and Singapore, not so much....