Serious question for MAGA - how do you not see the rise of authoritarian oligarchy?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I saw a MAGA acquaintance last night. She's still cool with Trump because he's "getting things done" and all those "illegals" are being deported and the border is finally under control. She thinks DOGE is saving us lots of money and Elon's little boy is so cute.

She doesn't see anything authoritarian going on - especially after all the terrible things Obama and Biden did.

Just look at the Fox News webpage - they don't even try to pretend to report the news anymore.

https://www.foxnews.com/

That’s the problem OP. MAGA only gets the news from right wing media. So when they interact with the rest of the world, they think “the libs are losing it.” I have no idea if there is even a solution. I don’t think anyone at Fox is going to have a change of heart and tell the truth.

I get my news from the Washington Post and WSJ.

I don’t agree with every single cut that’s happened but I also don’t think that reducing the size of the federal government = authoritarianism. Get a grip.

No, but attacking your “political” opponents by taking away their security details, clearances, their lawyers ability to represent them is. So it firing law enforcement people who did their job by taking the case assigned to them. And let’s not forget banning the AP for the Gulf of Mexico mess. Or threatening MSNBC and others for being “mean” to him. That is authoritarianism.

If Biden is senile or of a diminishing mind, he shouldn’t have a security clearance. Especially since he was absent minded regarding some classified papers in his garage.

Security clearances for former presidents, are courtesies.

Way more people than Biden. It is pure revenge.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/national-security/trumps-canceling-scores-security-clearances-unprecedented-rcna189245

It’s not revenge. It’s protection of the President’s agenda. Which, Trump is entitled to as POTUS.

DP. It is obviously petty and vindictive, no matter how you want to spin it. His behavior should worry you, if you have any sense of morals and ethics.

Just in case anyone was still in the dark- Trump is as bad or even worse than Biden was as a POTUS. Both are complete embarrassments. What were we thinking?

Life was good under Biden

Trump is nuts. We're all poorer with less sevices. And I suspect he is working in tandem with those who oppose the U.S.

Smart Rs who just wanted to make money see this.

So what will the Smart Rs who want to keep their money from becoming worthless do to stop the bullies?

[Anonymous]

Read this in the New York Times and tell me how you don’t understand the government and NGO complex was already corrupted?

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/03/16/opinion/covid-pandemic-lab-leak.html

The authoritarianism has existed. People are just mad about who is holding the power now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do you believe this isn’t possible? Or do you just not care because you are fooled into believing it will some how benefit you?

I’m not MAGA. I was one of the Democrats on here begging Democrats to look up (of course nobody did) and who knew Trump would beat Biden, let alone Harris. I think I’m one of the few Democrats posting here that regularly listens to Rogan, Kirk, etc. I’m a Democrat because I am pro-labor, pro-working class (people the Democrats used to care about), but feel alienated from this current identity-focused iteration of the party. Of course I voted for Harris because Trump is a traitor, but I have no love for the current Democrats.

Here is what you don’t understand. The deep red MAGA believe we were in an authoritarian oligarchy under the Democrats. They believe that Democrats used the pandemic to destroy small businesses with their closure and shut-down orders, and to consolidate power into the hands of powerful Democrat donors. They do not believe they receive any benefit whatsoever from government agencies, mostly seeing them as arms of the oligarchy that destroyed small businesses and the education of their children during the pandemic. And these feelings run long and deep: most of them view the pandemic business and school closures as targeted extensions of what Democrats did with NAFTA.

They also view the DEI and identity-focus of current Democrats as explicitly anti-working class. The language of DEI is inexplicable and a clear class marker — no one who isn’t part of the wealthy oligarch class uses incomprehensible terms like “lived experience” in daily conversation — and they feel that it is used by the oligarchs in charge to weaken and isolate them.

So, from the point of view of MAGA, there isn’t a change. That’s what all the hyperventilating out-of-touch posters in DCUM do not understand: the MAGA think we’re already in an authoritarian oligarchy. So, if we are already in one, it might as well be run by someone who doesn’t convey how much he hates them like the Democrats do.

The GOP did their propaganda well. They are very good at accusing the "other side" of what they want to do, selling it hard, and then coming in and doing it themselves.

MAGA can "believe" this all day long, but it is based on lies and it is destroying the country.

So almighty Dem who sees all--what do we do? How do Dems make the truth sexy enough for MAGA to bite? We know they don't operate based on reason and facts. It's all emotion. How do we dismantle the hatred based on lies. They are standing by while our country, our hard won democracy, is destroyed and watching like zombies as we become an autocratic nation ruled by a demented felon and his oligarch friends.

I don't want to live in Russia, Argentina or Hungary.

What do we do?

With the bolded, you show you still don’t get it, and as far as I am concerned, don’t actually want to fight for American democracy. And for the record, I agree that Trump is a major, major threat to American democracy. I think he wants to be Putin, which is terrifying.

But it is not a lie that Democratic pandemic policies destroyed working class businesses. It is not a lie that working class children were most harmed by school closures actively supported by Democrats. You cannot — if you actually want to save this country — refuse to acknowledge that Democrats have caused serious harm to the working classes with their policies. And you have to recognize that many of their favorite planks (identity, student loan forgiveness, etc) come across as extremely elitist.

So what do we do? Well, most Democrats won’t like it, because it’s going to require humility and admitting profound errors. I don’t actually think the party in its current form can manage it. But, the only way to fight back against any oligarchy is with strong labor and working class. That means abandoning fringe identity issues and focusing on true bread and butter labor issues. For instance, for God’s sake stop having trans musicians that mock Christianity open for Bernie Sanders. Instead go to the churches, embrace the religious. Make the tent bigger. Push out anyone who divides, and hammer home the basics: economic security, fair wages, strong working and middle class, good education. Walk away from useless identity politics. Example: men in women’s sports is something most of the country thinks is outright evil and unfair, and just another sign of how the Democrats are elitist oligarchs themselves.

And yes, that means the laptop classes will have to get their feelings hurt. They will have to admit their policies are wildly unpopular. They will have to admit that they’ve abandoned the working classes, and that their focus on things like DEI was done to preserve their role at the top of the Democratic oligarchy ladder.

I don’t think the party can do it. But the answer to an oligarchy is always strong labor and working classes. That’s it. Anything else is just window dressing.

Man, you are a smug piece of work. Not serious about democracy? You aren't in reality, man. Humility on the part of Dems will get them abso-F-in-lutely nowhere now. We live in a world where the GOP take something like a heartfelt apology, twist it, and use it to plunge the knife as deep as they can. They play zero-sum, winner-take-all politics and they play as dirty as it gets. No lie is too dirty. No tactic is too dirty. Everything is us vs. them now. Compromise is weakness. MAGA are in tin foil hat territory.

BOTH parties have done things to hurt the working class. But who will REALLY fight for them. It's been the Dems for a long time. Do they always get it right. Absolutely not. But, c'mon, the GOP is for the richest of the rich and has been for a long time. The things happening now have been in the works for years. They just sell better. Lie better. Sway better. Dems need to learn to play the propaganda game better, because after it's done, they will actually try to make things better, not prop up an authoritarian wanna-be and his rich friends. And, yes, unfortunately, for a while they need to quieter and smarter about how they try to help the marginalized, because, unfortunately, most people are focused only on themselves and are easily manipulated with the same old game. The rich get us to fight over 5% of the pie, pitting us against each other, while they sit back and enjoy the 95%. The GOP did a great job of scapegoating immigrants and trans people and DEI as the reason the working class is suffering when the real reasons are so much more complicated and harder to tackle.

The smug piece of work is you, laptop class member who obviously just wants to continue to oppress the working classes. The idea that the Democrats will REALLY fight for the working classes now — all evidence to the contrary, we really really truly mean it this time, scout’s honor — is ridiculous. Do you truly think working class people are so stupid that they can’t recognize your hypocrisy?

Come on.

#Truth

I used to be a Democrat, but voted for Trump this time. I live in a super blue county in a super blue state and I have watched how the Democrat pushed political policies have wrecked my middle-class community and destroyed our schools. The Republicans aren't fighting for the working-class, but neither are the Democrats.

What is an example of a Democratic law passed that wrecked your community?

+1. DP. I’m interested in the answer to this question.

[Anonymous]

Only one tried to stage a coup..

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Do you believe this isn’t possible? Or do you just not care because you are fooled into believing it will some how benefit you?

I know that Jeff gets upset about this kind of post, but how many of the “people” posting like that are regular live humans?

I think that a few of those folks are real people.

The Trump administrations person who listed the “ask me anything” seemed like a rational, patriotic American.

But I think a lot of the anti-immigrant posts, for example, feel as if they come from some organized campaign. How many regular people really wanted the family of the kid with brain cancer sent home, for example? The level of engagement in defense of that seemed really high.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do you believe this isn’t possible? Or do you just not care because you are fooled into believing it will some how benefit you?

I’m not MAGA. I was one of the Democrats on here begging Democrats to look up (of course nobody did) and who knew Trump would beat Biden, let alone Harris. I think I’m one of the few Democrats posting here that regularly listens to Rogan, Kirk, etc. I’m a Democrat because I am pro-labor, pro-working class (people the Democrats used to care about), but feel alienated from this current identity-focused iteration of the party. Of course I voted for Harris because Trump is a traitor, but I have no love for the current Democrats.

Here is what you don’t understand. The deep red MAGA believe we were in an authoritarian oligarchy under the Democrats. They believe that Democrats used the pandemic to destroy small businesses with their closure and shut-down orders, and to consolidate power into the hands of powerful Democrat donors. They do not believe they receive any benefit whatsoever from government agencies, mostly seeing them as arms of the oligarchy that destroyed small businesses and the education of their children during the pandemic. And these feelings run long and deep: most of them view the pandemic business and school closures as targeted extensions of what Democrats did with NAFTA.

They also view the DEI and identity-focus of current Democrats as explicitly anti-working class. The language of DEI is inexplicable and a clear class marker — no one who isn’t part of the wealthy oligarch class uses incomprehensible terms like “lived experience” in daily conversation — and they feel that it is used by the oligarchs in charge to weaken and isolate them.

So, from the point of view of MAGA, there isn’t a change. That’s what all the hyperventilating out-of-touch posters in DCUM do not understand: the MAGA think we’re already in an authoritarian oligarchy. So, if we are already in one, it might as well be run by someone who doesn’t convey how much he hates them like the Democrats do.

Do you have cites on any of these claims, including how the GOP is more pro-working class? In fact, can you provide an example of one policy drafted, passed, and implemented by the GOP over the last 125 years that has been for the benefit of working families?

FWIW, we are in the top 5% net worth in this country and I do not know a single person in our social groups who uses the term “lived experience.” Ever.

You may benefit from a little more reading on what constitutes oligarchs because what you are discussing here misses the mark by a wide margin.

Sigh. DCUM elites are so slow sometimes.

No, of course Republicans don’t help the working class. And few MAGA voters believe they do, so Democrats like the PP just sound like they are slow and condescending to the MAGA. You can spare the lectures.

MAGA believe we were already in an authoritarian oligarchy that doesn’t care about the working class under Biden. Therefore, if we were already in an authoritarian oligarchy that doesn’t care about the working class, you might as well pick the head of the authoritarian oligarchy to be the guy who doesn’t telegraph over and over how much he hates you.

To break it down further, this is what MAGA believe:

Biden and the Democrats are authoritarian oligarchs who also have a personal hatred for working class people. They look down on working class people, including their food, their religion, and their sports.

Trump and the MAGA Republicans are authoritarian oligarchs who don’t care about working class people. But they don’t mind having a beer with working class people and are happy to sit and watch the WWE together.

From the MAGA point of view, who will you pick? The authoritarian oligarch who hates you for who you are or the one who doesn’t?

I struggle to see how someone (not you but the mindset you are describing) comes to the conclusion that these are equivalent levels of authoritarianism. Biden didn’t kick out media pool members, lie about an election, threaten those who investigated him, or threaten the borders of allies. Nor is it credible that pro union, pro social services Biden “hates” the working class. People who believe in any of that were indoctrinated by certain media oligarchs who have much to gain with Trump’s positions. The solution so many proposed was better education to develop functioning critical reasoning, but, big surprise, now the prize of our educational landscape—colleges and universities— are being defunded and threatened.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think that they will not admit that they screwed up. We Dems are always willing to to admit when we have Fd up. Honest, not tribal.

yup its a cult...but they will see eventually. I wonder if they will go J6 on trump? That was quite a violent day-the VP barely made it out of that day alive.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I saw a MAGA acquaintance last night. She's still cool with Trump because he's "getting things done" and all those "illegals" are being deported and the border is finally under control. She thinks DOGE is saving us lots of money and Elon's little boy is so cute.

She doesn't see anything authoritarian going on - especially after all the terrible things Obama and Biden did.

Just look at the Fox News webpage - they don't even try to pretend to report the news anymore.

https://www.foxnews.com/

That’s the problem OP. MAGA only gets the news from right wing media. So when they interact with the rest of the world, they think “the libs are losing it.” I have no idea if there is even a solution. I don’t think anyone at Fox is going to have a change of heart and tell the truth.

I get my news from the Washington Post and WSJ.

I don’t agree with every single cut that’s happened but I also don’t think that reducing the size of the federal government = authoritarianism. Get a grip.

No, but attacking your “political” opponents by taking away their security details, clearances, their lawyers ability to represent them is. So it firing law enforcement people who did their job by taking the case assigned to them. And let’s not forget banning the AP for the Gulf of Mexico mess. Or threatening MSNBC and others for being “mean” to him. That is authoritarianism.

If Biden is senile or of a diminishing mind, he shouldn’t have a security clearance. Especially since he was absent minded regarding some classified papers in his garage.

Security clearances for former presidents, are courtesies.

Way more people than Biden. It is pure revenge.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/national-security/trumps-canceling-scores-security-clearances-unprecedented-rcna189245

It’s not revenge. It’s protection of the President’s agenda. Which, Trump is entitled to as POTUS.

DP. It is obviously petty and vindictive, no matter how you want to spin it. His behavior should worry you, if you have any sense of morals and ethics.

Just in case anyone was still in the dark- Trump is as bad or even worse than Biden was as a POTUS. Both are complete embarrassments. What were we thinking?

Life was good under Biden

Trump is nuts. We're all poorer with less sevices. And I suspect he is working in tandem with those who oppose the U.S.

Smart Rs who just wanted to make money see this.

So what will the Smart Rs who want to keep their money from becoming worthless do to stop the bullies?

They have developed a distrust of the other side even though they didn't buy the propaganda lock stock and barrel.

But even.they have their $$$ point where they think something needs to be done. It remain to be seen whether we have reached that point or if when they reach that point it will be too late.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do you believe this isn’t possible? Or do you just not care because you are fooled into believing it will some how benefit you?

I’m not MAGA. I was one of the Democrats on here begging Democrats to look up (of course nobody did) and who knew Trump would beat Biden, let alone Harris. I think I’m one of the few Democrats posting here that regularly listens to Rogan, Kirk, etc. I’m a Democrat because I am pro-labor, pro-working class (people the Democrats used to care about), but feel alienated from this current identity-focused iteration of the party. Of course I voted for Harris because Trump is a traitor, but I have no love for the current Democrats.

Here is what you don’t understand. The deep red MAGA believe we were in an authoritarian oligarchy under the Democrats. They believe that Democrats used the pandemic to destroy small businesses with their closure and shut-down orders, and to consolidate power into the hands of powerful Democrat donors. They do not believe they receive any benefit whatsoever from government agencies, mostly seeing them as arms of the oligarchy that destroyed small businesses and the education of their children during the pandemic. And these feelings run long and deep: most of them view the pandemic business and school closures as targeted extensions of what Democrats did with NAFTA.

They also view the DEI and identity-focus of current Democrats as explicitly anti-working class. The language of DEI is inexplicable and a clear class marker — no one who isn’t part of the wealthy oligarch class uses incomprehensible terms like “lived experience” in daily conversation — and they feel that it is used by the oligarchs in charge to weaken and isolate them.

So, from the point of view of MAGA, there isn’t a change. That’s what all the hyperventilating out-of-touch posters in DCUM do not understand: the MAGA think we’re already in an authoritarian oligarchy. So, if we are already in one, it might as well be run by someone who doesn’t convey how much he hates them like the Democrats do.

Do you have cites on any of these claims, including how the GOP is more pro-working class? In fact, can you provide an example of one policy drafted, passed, and implemented by the GOP over the last 125 years that has been for the benefit of working families?

FWIW, we are in the top 5% net worth in this country and I do not know a single person in our social groups who uses the term “lived experience.” Ever.

You may benefit from a little more reading on what constitutes oligarchs because what you are discussing here misses the mark by a wide margin.

Sigh. DCUM elites are so slow sometimes.

No, of course Republicans don’t help the working class. And few MAGA voters believe they do, so Democrats like the PP just sound like they are slow and condescending to the MAGA. You can spare the lectures.

MAGA believe we were already in an authoritarian oligarchy that doesn’t care about the working class under Biden. Therefore, if we were already in an authoritarian oligarchy that doesn’t care about the working class, you might as well pick the head of the authoritarian oligarchy to be the guy who doesn’t telegraph over and over how much he hates you.

To break it down further, this is what MAGA believe:

Biden and the Democrats are authoritarian oligarchs who also have a personal hatred for working class people. They look down on working class people, including their food, their religion, and their sports.

Trump and the MAGA Republicans are authoritarian oligarchs who don’t care about working class people. But they don’t mind having a beer with working class people and are happy to sit and watch the WWE together.

From the MAGA point of view, who will you pick? The authoritarian oligarch who hates you for who you are or the one who doesn’t?

I struggle to see how someone (not you but the mindset you are describing) comes to the conclusion that these are equivalent levels of authoritarianism. Biden didn’t kick out media pool members, lie about an election, threaten those who investigated him, or threaten the borders of allies. Nor is it credible that pro union, pro social services Biden “hates” the working class. People who believe in any of that were indoctrinated by certain media oligarchs who have much to gain with Trump’s positions. The solution so many proposed was better education to develop functioning critical reasoning, but, big surprise, now the prize of our educational landscape—colleges and universities— are being defunded and threatened.

PP here. You are still looking at it from the perspective of a wealthy liberal Democrat. It is easy, and conveniently removes any culpability, to simply blame Fox News and other media for working class MAGA.

Just to be clear, to a certain extent I agree with you. I believe there is indoctrination going on via Fox News (though also with MSNBC). But indoctrination only works because working class people look at the struggles of their daily lives and see few positives from Democrats. In other words, the media narrative just reinforces what they already know to be true. To show you what I mean, let’s look at a few of the issues you raise, where you don’t understand how MAGA could possibly regard Biden as an authoritarian oligarch on the scale of Trump.

Borders of allies? What does that matter to the working class that will disproportionately suffer in military conflict, which appeared to be quite happily supported by Biden and Harris? Harris thought it was a good idea to campaign with Liz Cheney, and Trump was absolutely correct she is a chicken hawk. I remain shocked to this day that someone thought a Liz Cheney endorsement was a good idea to win over middle and lower class swing state voters; talk about out of touch! These voters likely all know someone who was executed in Cheney’s meat grinders, something that liberal Democrats telegraphed very clearly that they did not care about. And going specifically to borders, as far as a lot of these folks are concerned, other countries have been openly threatening the borders of the US for years with permission from the Democrats, bringing in labor that directly undercuts working class salaries. So why not fight back?

Removal of media pool members? There is too much water under the bridge with social media companies for that to be compelling. The Biden administration pressured social media companies to remove speech, much of which came from members of the working class. MAGA voters don’t believe media was free under Biden, so why on earth should Trump act differently? A lot of working class MAGA members had posts about Covid restrictions that were hurting them removed by the big social media companies, or had their accounts blocked. Forget the press pool, their experience is that Biden himself censored them directly. Who cares about some elitist journalists in DC when Uncle Charlie can’t post about how he’s losing his job because of Covid policies?

Pro-union, pro-labor Biden? How, exactly? The same Biden that denied inflation was going on? What Democrats don’t understand is that there is a big gap these days between union rank and file, and union leadership, and enormous resentment in the unions about ineffectual, possibly grifting union leadership. Biden was pro-union-leadership, not pro-union-member. This is a distinction that most Democratic partisans don’t understand but it is a significant distinction politically.

To be clear, I agree with you in general politically. I think Trump is an authoritarian disaster that I think the country will be lucky to survive. But all this liberal Democrat hand-wringing about MAGA is far off base, or more specifically it removes any culpability from Democrats.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Read this in the New York Times and tell me how you don’t understand the government and NGO complex was already corrupted?

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/03/16/opinion/covid-pandemic-lab-leak.html

The authoritarianism has existed. People are just mad about who is holding the power now.

It absolutely did not. These are not the same things. And you know it. If you believe it, then I'm sorry, you are in fact an idiot.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do you believe this isn’t possible? Or do you just not care because you are fooled into believing it will some how benefit you?

I’m not MAGA. I was one of the Democrats on here begging Democrats to look up (of course nobody did) and who knew Trump would beat Biden, let alone Harris. I think I’m one of the few Democrats posting here that regularly listens to Rogan, Kirk, etc. I’m a Democrat because I am pro-labor, pro-working class (people the Democrats used to care about), but feel alienated from this current identity-focused iteration of the party. Of course I voted for Harris because Trump is a traitor, but I have no love for the current Democrats.

Here is what you don’t understand. The deep red MAGA believe we were in an authoritarian oligarchy under the Democrats. They believe that Democrats used the pandemic to destroy small businesses with their closure and shut-down orders, and to consolidate power into the hands of powerful Democrat donors. They do not believe they receive any benefit whatsoever from government agencies, mostly seeing them as arms of the oligarchy that destroyed small businesses and the education of their children during the pandemic. And these feelings run long and deep: most of them view the pandemic business and school closures as targeted extensions of what Democrats did with NAFTA.

They also view the DEI and identity-focus of current Democrats as explicitly anti-working class. The language of DEI is inexplicable and a clear class marker — no one who isn’t part of the wealthy oligarch class uses incomprehensible terms like “lived experience” in daily conversation — and they feel that it is used by the oligarchs in charge to weaken and isolate them.

So, from the point of view of MAGA, there isn’t a change. That’s what all the hyperventilating out-of-touch posters in DCUM do not understand: the MAGA think we’re already in an authoritarian oligarchy. So, if we are already in one, it might as well be run by someone who doesn’t convey how much he hates them like the Democrats do.

Do you have cites on any of these claims, including how the GOP is more pro-working class? In fact, can you provide an example of one policy drafted, passed, and implemented by the GOP over the last 125 years that has been for the benefit of working families?

FWIW, we are in the top 5% net worth in this country and I do not know a single person in our social groups who uses the term “lived experience.” Ever.

You may benefit from a little more reading on what constitutes oligarchs because what you are discussing here misses the mark by a wide margin.

Sigh. DCUM elites are so slow sometimes.

No, of course Republicans don’t help the working class. And few MAGA voters believe they do, so Democrats like the PP just sound like they are slow and condescending to the MAGA. You can spare the lectures.

MAGA believe we were already in an authoritarian oligarchy that doesn’t care about the working class under Biden. Therefore, if we were already in an authoritarian oligarchy that doesn’t care about the working class, you might as well pick the head of the authoritarian oligarchy to be the guy who doesn’t telegraph over and over how much he hates you.

To break it down further, this is what MAGA believe:

Biden and the Democrats are authoritarian oligarchs who also have a personal hatred for working class people. They look down on working class people, including their food, their religion, and their sports.

Trump and the MAGA Republicans are authoritarian oligarchs who don’t care about working class people. But they don’t mind having a beer with working class people and are happy to sit and watch the WWE together.

From the MAGA point of view, who will you pick? The authoritarian oligarch who hates you for who you are or the one who doesn’t?

I struggle to see how someone (not you but the mindset you are describing) comes to the conclusion that these are equivalent levels of authoritarianism. Biden didn’t kick out media pool members, lie about an election, threaten those who investigated him, or threaten the borders of allies. Nor is it credible that pro union, pro social services Biden “hates” the working class. People who believe in any of that were indoctrinated by certain media oligarchs who have much to gain with Trump’s positions. The solution so many proposed was better education to develop functioning critical reasoning, but, big surprise, now the prize of our educational landscape—colleges and universities— are being defunded and threatened.

PP here. You are still looking at it from the perspective of a wealthy liberal Democrat. It is easy, and conveniently removes any culpability, to simply blame Fox News and other media for working class MAGA.

Just to be clear, to a certain extent I agree with you. I believe there is indoctrination going on via Fox News (though also with MSNBC). But indoctrination only works because working class people look at the struggles of their daily lives and see few positives from Democrats. In other words, the media narrative just reinforces what they already know to be true. To show you what I mean, let’s look at a few of the issues you raise, where you don’t understand how MAGA could possibly regard Biden as an authoritarian oligarch on the scale of Trump.

Borders of allies? What does that matter to the working class that will disproportionately suffer in military conflict, which appeared to be quite happily supported by Biden and Harris? Harris thought it was a good idea to campaign with Liz Cheney, and Trump was absolutely correct she is a chicken hawk. I remain shocked to this day that someone thought a Liz Cheney endorsement was a good idea to win over middle and lower class swing state voters; talk about out of touch! These voters likely all know someone who was executed in Cheney’s meat grinders, something that liberal Democrats telegraphed very clearly that they did not care about. And going specifically to borders, as far as a lot of these folks are concerned, other countries have been openly threatening the borders of the US for years with permission from the Democrats, bringing in labor that directly undercuts working class salaries. So why not fight back?

Removal of media pool members? There is too much water under the bridge with social media companies for that to be compelling. The Biden administration pressured social media companies to remove speech, much of which came from members of the working class. MAGA voters don’t believe media was free under Biden, so why on earth should Trump act differently? A lot of working class MAGA members had posts about Covid restrictions that were hurting them removed by the big social media companies, or had their accounts blocked. Forget the press pool, their experience is that Biden himself censored them directly. Who cares about some elitist journalists in DC when Uncle Charlie can’t post about how he’s losing his job because of Covid policies?

Pro-union, pro-labor Biden? How, exactly? The same Biden that denied inflation was going on? What Democrats don’t understand is that there is a big gap these days between union rank and file, and union leadership, and enormous resentment in the unions about ineffectual, possibly grifting union leadership. Biden was pro-union-leadership, not pro-union-member. This is a distinction that most Democratic partisans don’t understand but it is a significant distinction politically.

To be clear, I agree with you in general politically. I think Trump is an authoritarian disaster that I think the country will be lucky to survive. But all this liberal Democrat hand-wringing about MAGA is far off base, or more specifically it removes any culpability from Democrats.

As opposed to the wealthy reality star in the oval office? The wealthy wrestling queen in the cabinet? And the BILLIONAIRE leading DOGE?

GTFOH with that liberal elite BS.

[Anonymous]

MAGA don’t like unions. Your socialist revolution is not the solution to trump. Keep trying but it’s not going to work. The number one thing immigrant Trump voters have told me is that they were afraid that Dems wanted communism. Good luck with your labor movement.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do you believe this isn’t possible? Or do you just not care because you are fooled into believing it will some how benefit you?

I’m not MAGA. I was one of the Democrats on here begging Democrats to look up (of course nobody did) and who knew Trump would beat Biden, let alone Harris. I think I’m one of the few Democrats posting here that regularly listens to Rogan, Kirk, etc. I’m a Democrat because I am pro-labor, pro-working class (people the Democrats used to care about), but feel alienated from this current identity-focused iteration of the party. Of course I voted for Harris because Trump is a traitor, but I have no love for the current Democrats.

Here is what you don’t understand. The deep red MAGA believe we were in an authoritarian oligarchy under the Democrats. They believe that Democrats used the pandemic to destroy small businesses with their closure and shut-down orders, and to consolidate power into the hands of powerful Democrat donors. They do not believe they receive any benefit whatsoever from government agencies, mostly seeing them as arms of the oligarchy that destroyed small businesses and the education of their children during the pandemic. And these feelings run long and deep: most of them view the pandemic business and school closures as targeted extensions of what Democrats did with NAFTA.

They also view the DEI and identity-focus of current Democrats as explicitly anti-working class. The language of DEI is inexplicable and a clear class marker — no one who isn’t part of the wealthy oligarch class uses incomprehensible terms like “lived experience” in daily conversation — and they feel that it is used by the oligarchs in charge to weaken and isolate them.

So, from the point of view of MAGA, there isn’t a change. That’s what all the hyperventilating out-of-touch posters in DCUM do not understand: the MAGA think we’re already in an authoritarian oligarchy. So, if we are already in one, it might as well be run by someone who doesn’t convey how much he hates them like the Democrats do.

Do you have cites on any of these claims, including how the GOP is more pro-working class? In fact, can you provide an example of one policy drafted, passed, and implemented by the GOP over the last 125 years that has been for the benefit of working families?

FWIW, we are in the top 5% net worth in this country and I do not know a single person in our social groups who uses the term “lived experience.” Ever.

You may benefit from a little more reading on what constitutes oligarchs because what you are discussing here misses the mark by a wide margin.

Sigh. DCUM elites are so slow sometimes.

No, of course Republicans don’t help the working class. And few MAGA voters believe they do, so Democrats like the PP just sound like they are slow and condescending to the MAGA. You can spare the lectures.

MAGA believe we were already in an authoritarian oligarchy that doesn’t care about the working class under Biden. Therefore, if we were already in an authoritarian oligarchy that doesn’t care about the working class, you might as well pick the head of the authoritarian oligarchy to be the guy who doesn’t telegraph over and over how much he hates you.

To break it down further, this is what MAGA believe:

Biden and the Democrats are authoritarian oligarchs who also have a personal hatred for working class people. They look down on working class people, including their food, their religion, and their sports.

Trump and the MAGA Republicans are authoritarian oligarchs who don’t care about working class people. But they don’t mind having a beer with working class people and are happy to sit and watch the WWE together.

From the MAGA point of view, who will you pick? The authoritarian oligarch who hates you for who you are or the one who doesn’t?

I struggle to see how someone (not you but the mindset you are describing) comes to the conclusion that these are equivalent levels of authoritarianism. Biden didn’t kick out media pool members, lie about an election, threaten those who investigated him, or threaten the borders of allies. Nor is it credible that pro union, pro social services Biden “hates” the working class. People who believe in any of that were indoctrinated by certain media oligarchs who have much to gain with Trump’s positions. The solution so many proposed was better education to develop functioning critical reasoning, but, big surprise, now the prize of our educational landscape—colleges and universities— are being defunded and threatened.

PP here. You are still looking at it from the perspective of a wealthy liberal Democrat. It is easy, and conveniently removes any culpability, to simply blame Fox News and other media for working class MAGA.

Just to be clear, to a certain extent I agree with you. I believe there is indoctrination going on via Fox News (though also with MSNBC). But indoctrination only works because working class people look at the struggles of their daily lives and see few positives from Democrats. In other words, the media narrative just reinforces what they already know to be true. To show you what I mean, let’s look at a few of the issues you raise, where you don’t understand how MAGA could possibly regard Biden as an authoritarian oligarch on the scale of Trump.

Borders of allies? What does that matter to the working class that will disproportionately suffer in military conflict, which appeared to be quite happily supported by Biden and Harris? Harris thought it was a good idea to campaign with Liz Cheney, and Trump was absolutely correct she is a chicken hawk. I remain shocked to this day that someone thought a Liz Cheney endorsement was a good idea to win over middle and lower class swing state voters; talk about out of touch! These voters likely all know someone who was executed in Cheney’s meat grinders, something that liberal Democrats telegraphed very clearly that they did not care about. And going specifically to borders, as far as a lot of these folks are concerned, other countries have been openly threatening the borders of the US for years with permission from the Democrats, bringing in labor that directly undercuts working class salaries. So why not fight back?

Removal of media pool members? There is too much water under the bridge with social media companies for that to be compelling. The Biden administration pressured social media companies to remove speech, much of which came from members of the working class. MAGA voters don’t believe media was free under Biden, so why on earth should Trump act differently? A lot of working class MAGA members had posts about Covid restrictions that were hurting them removed by the big social media companies, or had their accounts blocked. Forget the press pool, their experience is that Biden himself censored them directly. Who cares about some elitist journalists in DC when Uncle Charlie can’t post about how he’s losing his job because of Covid policies?

Pro-union, pro-labor Biden? How, exactly? The same Biden that denied inflation was going on? What Democrats don’t understand is that there is a big gap these days between union rank and file, and union leadership, and enormous resentment in the unions about ineffectual, possibly grifting union leadership. Biden was pro-union-leadership, not pro-union-member. This is a distinction that most Democratic partisans don’t understand but it is a significant distinction politically.

To be clear, I agree with you in general politically. I think Trump is an authoritarian disaster that I think the country will be lucky to survive. But all this liberal Democrat hand-wringing about MAGA is far off base, or more specifically it removes any culpability from Democrats.

And if had we nominated someone with a legitimately presidential skill set in 2020 instead of the grumpy elderly guy, all of this discussion would be unnecessary and the Trump era in politics would be behind us now. I almost hate Biden as much as Trump.

[Anonymous]

This must be the rear view mirror thread

Color me shocked that a thread about MAGA devolves into Democrats

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do you believe this isn’t possible? Or do you just not care because you are fooled into believing it will some how benefit you?

I’m not MAGA. I was one of the Democrats on here begging Democrats to look up (of course nobody did) and who knew Trump would beat Biden, let alone Harris. I think I’m one of the few Democrats posting here that regularly listens to Rogan, Kirk, etc. I’m a Democrat because I am pro-labor, pro-working class (people the Democrats used to care about), but feel alienated from this current identity-focused iteration of the party. Of course I voted for Harris because Trump is a traitor, but I have no love for the current Democrats.

Here is what you don’t understand. The deep red MAGA believe we were in an authoritarian oligarchy under the Democrats. They believe that Democrats used the pandemic to destroy small businesses with their closure and shut-down orders, and to consolidate power into the hands of powerful Democrat donors. They do not believe they receive any benefit whatsoever from government agencies, mostly seeing them as arms of the oligarchy that destroyed small businesses and the education of their children during the pandemic. And these feelings run long and deep: most of them view the pandemic business and school closures as targeted extensions of what Democrats did with NAFTA.

They also view the DEI and identity-focus of current Democrats as explicitly anti-working class. The language of DEI is inexplicable and a clear class marker — no one who isn’t part of the wealthy oligarch class uses incomprehensible terms like “lived experience” in daily conversation — and they feel that it is used by the oligarchs in charge to weaken and isolate them.

So, from the point of view of MAGA, there isn’t a change. That’s what all the hyperventilating out-of-touch posters in DCUM do not understand: the MAGA think we’re already in an authoritarian oligarchy. So, if we are already in one, it might as well be run by someone who doesn’t convey how much he hates them like the Democrats do.

The GOP did their propaganda well. They are very good at accusing the "other side" of what they want to do, selling it hard, and then coming in and doing it themselves.

MAGA can "believe" this all day long, but it is based on lies and it is destroying the country.

So almighty Dem who sees all--what do we do? How do Dems make the truth sexy enough for MAGA to bite? We know they don't operate based on reason and facts. It's all emotion. How do we dismantle the hatred based on lies. They are standing by while our country, our hard won democracy, is destroyed and watching like zombies as we become an autocratic nation ruled by a demented felon and his oligarch friends.

I don't want to live in Russia, Argentina or Hungary.

What do we do?

With the bolded, you show you still don’t get it, and as far as I am concerned, don’t actually want to fight for American democracy. And for the record, I agree that Trump is a major, major threat to American democracy. I think he wants to be Putin, which is terrifying.

But it is not a lie that Democratic pandemic policies destroyed working class businesses. It is not a lie that working class children were most harmed by school closures actively supported by Democrats. You cannot — if you actually want to save this country — refuse to acknowledge that Democrats have caused serious harm to the working classes with their policies. And you have to recognize that many of their favorite planks (identity, student loan forgiveness, etc) come across as extremely elitist.

So what do we do? Well, most Democrats won’t like it, because it’s going to require humility and admitting profound errors. I don’t actually think the party in its current form can manage it. But, the only way to fight back against any oligarchy is with strong labor and working class. That means abandoning fringe identity issues and focusing on true bread and butter labor issues. For instance, for God’s sake stop having trans musicians that mock Christianity open for Bernie Sanders. Instead go to the churches, embrace the religious. Make the tent bigger. Push out anyone who divides, and hammer home the basics: economic security, fair wages, strong working and middle class, good education. Walk away from useless identity politics. Example: men in women’s sports is something most of the country thinks is outright evil and unfair, and just another sign of how the Democrats are elitist oligarchs themselves.

And yes, that means the laptop classes will have to get their feelings hurt. They will have to admit their policies are wildly unpopular. They will have to admit that they’ve abandoned the working classes, and that their focus on things like DEI was done to preserve their role at the top of the Democratic oligarchy ladder.

I don’t think the party can do it. But the answer to an oligarchy is always strong labor and working classes. That’s it. Anything else is just window dressing.

Man, you are a smug piece of work. Not serious about democracy? You aren't in reality, man. Humility on the part of Dems will get them abso-F-in-lutely nowhere now. We live in a world where the GOP take something like a heartfelt apology, twist it, and use it to plunge the knife as deep as they can. They play zero-sum, winner-take-all politics and they play as dirty as it gets. No lie is too dirty. No tactic is too dirty. Everything is us vs. them now. Compromise is weakness. MAGA are in tin foil hat territory.

BOTH parties have done things to hurt the working class. But who will REALLY fight for them. It's been the Dems for a long time. Do they always get it right. Absolutely not. But, c'mon, the GOP is for the richest of the rich and has been for a long time. The things happening now have been in the works for years. They just sell better. Lie better. Sway better. Dems need to learn to play the propaganda game better, because after it's done, they will actually try to make things better, not prop up an authoritarian wanna-be and his rich friends. And, yes, unfortunately, for a while they need to quieter and smarter about how they try to help the marginalized, because, unfortunately, most people are focused only on themselves and are easily manipulated with the same old game. The rich get us to fight over 5% of the pie, pitting us against each other, while they sit back and enjoy the 95%. The GOP did a great job of scapegoating immigrants and trans people and DEI as the reason the working class is suffering when the real reasons are so much more complicated and harder to tackle.

The smug piece of work is you, laptop class member who obviously just wants to continue to oppress the working classes. The idea that the Democrats will REALLY fight for the working classes now — all evidence to the contrary, we really really truly mean it this time, scout’s honor — is ridiculous. Do you truly think working class people are so stupid that they can’t recognize your hypocrisy?

Come on.

#Truth

I used to be a Democrat, but voted for Trump this time. I live in a super blue county in a super blue state and I have watched how the Democrat pushed political policies have wrecked my middle-class community and destroyed our schools. The Republicans aren't fighting for the working-class, but neither are the Democrats.

What is an example of a Democratic law passed that wrecked your community?

+1. DP. I’m interested in the answer to this question.

Already answered a few times. Don’t be lazy and expect us to post it again.