In-Pool Results Thread 2024
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Anonymous
| What does "In-pool" mean? |
Anonymous
It means whether or not the parent (or, much less frequently, a teacher) referred a child, they will automatically be screened for full-time AAP. The school will generate a packet and the child will be considered for the program. It doesn't mean the child is guaranteed admission. The pool only exists for second graders. |
Anonymous
No. In pool refers to those kids who scored at the top 10% of their elementary school in the cogat and NNAT via universal screener. In the old system, you were in pool if your child scored 132 or higher on either the cogat or NNAT. |
Anonymous
I mean, it was renamed from an intelligence test to a cog ability test. It's marketing. No one said it was a "good" intelligence test. A less comprehensive shorter test will of course be less valid. Anyway, can you explain what you mean about lucky guessing with a hypothetical example? |
Anonymous
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Is “in pool” all about level 4? Which probably means a different school?
What happens for the group just below that? Am i right in understanding that in 3rd grade they split classes more on ability? Is there a level 3 that is all in one class? 121 cogat and 138 nnat, if it matters. Teacher referred AAP but I doubt DC would get in with those scores, which is fine by me anyway. Just not sure what the back up is to level 4, if any. |
Anonymous
| There is level 3 and teacher referral means a lot. How do you get a teacher to refer ? |
Anonymous
Why would your kid not get in with those scores? Those are good scores. At our school, a kid would join for advanced math. I don’t think there is much difference in other subjects. |
Anonymous
Did you parent refer? I have never heard of a teacher actually refer at our school. |
Anonymous
In-Pool is for Level IV services or full time services, they changed what they call it now. Full time services can happen at the base school, through Local Level iV, or at a Center school that will probably have multiple classrooms for kids receiving Level IV services. Most Local Level IV programs are one classroom although sme use the cluser model where Level IV kids are clustered together in a grade level class and receive additional instruction from the Teacher. Level III is a program that is supposed to pull out kids who need additional challenge but do not rise to the level of need for Level IV services. It is supposed to be a class that meets 1 hour a week with the AART and cover a fair number of the extensions that the LIV kids receive. LIII is hit or miss, depending on the school. My kids school did a great job with LIII. The kids were pulled out on a very regular basis, although not weekly, and they meet with the AART for an hour when they were pulled from class. Others report that the LIII pull outs rarely happen or are 30 minutes long. Advanced Math is the main service that parents want. Advanced Math leads to kids beign 1 year acelerated n math in ES. Fifth grade Advanced Math/LIV kids are learning the sixth grade curriculum. Sixth Grade Advanced Math/LIV kids are learning the 7th grade curriculum. The Advanced Math/LIV kids will be given the IAAT test in January of sixth grade as part of the process for qualifying for Algebra 1 H in 7th grade. Kids need to score in the 91rst percentile on the IAAT AND Pass Advanced on the 7th Grade Math SOL in order to take Algebra 1 H in 7th grade. |
Anonymous
Not sure what your question is, but here goes. Kid A and Kid B get everything else right, but are both stumped on problem 30. Since the test is multiple choice, both make random guesses. Kid A, who gets the problem right, might end up with say a 152 section score. Kid B, who gets it wrong, ends up with say a 140. There really is no difference in ability between the two kids, but by CogAT ceiling scoring, Kid A now has a much higher section score and likely a much higher VQN. Now throw in kid C, who breezes through everything, finds all questions super easy, but makes a couple careless mistakes. Kid C is probably getting a 132-135 on that section, even though he would have the highest IQ if measured. The difference in score between a perfect score and one wrong is huge. The difference between 1 wrong and 2 wrong is still pretty big. It's not a problem with the test, but rather a problem with the way people are using and interpreting it. The CogAT isn't meant to differentiate between a 135 and a 145. The test ceiling is too low for that. |
Anonymous
This is very helpful, thanks. How did you determine this? By test ceiling you mean the max number of qs the kids have the opportunity to answer? |
Anonymous
I determined this through the super scientific method of comparing the scores all of my kids. 
It was surprising to me that one kid answered all of the questions correctly and got a 150 on that section, while the other got 3 wrong out of like 60 questions in the same section and ended up with a 130. Another kid got 4 wrong and still got a 130, but this kid was slightly younger than the other kid with the 130, so they must have been in different norming buckets. The first kid with the 150 in a section had the same scores in the other two sections as the kid with the 130, but the VQN was 10 points higher. By test ceiling, I mean the ability of the test to differentiate between kids at the highest ends. The hardest problems in the CogAT aren't difficult enough to distinguish between a kid at the 99.9th percentile and one at the 98th percentile. The WISC is designed to have much more ability to differentiate between moderately gifted and highly gifted kids. |
Anonymous
That's really interesting, thanks. Were you able to determine if the errors were all in a row or does that not matter? For example, I am familiar with another test where the score is determined based on the highest item the child completed before getting four in a row incorrect. I'm assuming the CogAT doesn't work like that but the WISC might have some subsections that have a similar kind of stopping rule. Did you have your kids complete the WISC as well and if so, did it seem to differentiate them better in ways that you expected? |
Anonymous
PP, were your kids in different ages at the time? Having a young-for-grade kid get the same number of questions right as an old-for-grade kid makes a big difference too, because of age norming. |
Anonymous
The WISC has stopping rules. The CogAT doesn't. If there are 50 questions in a section, then they answer all 50. For the WISC, there are extended norms to differentiate between kids at the 99.9th percentile and kids who are even higher. |