the Atlantic: The Elite College Students Who Can't Read Books

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Parenting. Try it.

This is an indictment of our education system. If children aren’t reading entire books as part of a path to graduation, we as a society should be demanding more. I doubt these parents of students at elite universities are failing at their part in this…their kids are literally at an ivy.

Parents aren’t teachers, we all learned this in the pandemic.

If a book is assigned, and a kid didn't read it, that's on the kid and maybe the parent if the parent had a way of knowing the assignment; if the kid didn't read the books and managed to graduate with a 4.0UW? That's on the school.

Multiple posters are saying entire books are not required at their kids’ schools.

Our school used to do summer reading, as in pick a book and do a report on it. Many kids just pulled summaries from the internet. It's too easy to get away with not doing things you don't like doing these days.

Girl. I went to private and had to read tons of books. But are you all forgetting about Cliff Notes? It was our version of internet summaries.
Btw, My kids have done AAP/Honors/IB in FCPS and they’ve had to read entire books in school. We also go to library, have always encouraged reading, etc. I think a huge part of it is too much screen time and parental importance placed on reading.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Parenting. Try it.

This is an indictment of our education system. If children aren’t reading entire books as part of a path to graduation, we as a society should be demanding more. I doubt these parents of students at elite universities are failing at their part in this…their kids are literally at an ivy.

Parents aren’t teachers, we all learned this in the pandemic.

If a book is assigned, and a kid didn't read it, that's on the kid and maybe the parent if the parent had a way of knowing the assignment; if the kid didn't read the books and managed to graduate with a 4.0UW? That's on the school.

Multiple posters are saying entire books are not required at their kids’ schools.

Our school used to do summer reading, as in pick a book and do a report on it. Many kids just pulled summaries from the internet. It's too easy to get away with not doing things you don't like doing these days.

Girl. I went to private and had to read tons of books. But are you all forgetting about Cliff Notes? It was our version of internet summaries.
Btw, My kids have done AAP/Honors/IB in FCPS and they’ve had to read entire books in school. We also go to library, have always encouraged reading, etc. I think a huge part of it is too much screen time and parental importance placed on reading.

Oh for goodness sake. I have always read with DC. I read a lot. And my kid is an athlete and in AP and honors classes. They don’t read books. Maybe 3 all of HS. And dc doesn’t like to read outside of school, no matter how much I wish otherwise.

So no. Not the case for everyone.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2024/11/the-elite-college-students-who-cant-read-books/679945/

Students at elite universities such as Columbia are showing up to campus unable to read books. They've only read excerpts their entire school career. Many also struggle to write effectively. In response, many Columbia teachers have to water down the curriculum.

My 17 year old daughter reads all the time, she goes through 6-8 books a month for pleasure. She’s a senior and has a heavy course load. Reading is what she likes to do when taking a break. You know what we never let her do? Watch TV with any regularity. And her internet access on her phone was highly controlled with time limits.

The problem isn’t schools, it’s parents unwilling to limit screen time.

It’s too bad you couldn’t teach your child self-discipline.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid goes to a Big3 high school in DC and has read 50+ books cover-to-cover for class during high school.

This is large part of why parents pay for top private schools.

Don't you think it's an issue that you couldn't raise kids to read a book a month without paying for private school?

How do you know my kid didn't read separately from the assigned reading at Sidwell? Because he did, and does. Sidwell was worth it, if only because I can read this Atlantic article and confidently say that it doesn't apply to my kid. That's worth quite a lot. (NP)

Public school parents don't need to spend $100s of K to make sure their kids have reading skills. You paid a lot to indulge your emotional need to avoid panicking about an Atlantic article.

I think you clearly skipped some complex reading lessons yourself, somewhere along the line.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My dcs go to a good public high school in the south. Ds has not had to read a book since middle school. Dd has had one book to read for AP English Lit so far, that's it.

You need to rethink labeling this school “good.”

My kid goes to a suburban public school in California. He has read 5-8 novels a year in English class every year.

I’m in a suburban district in California that’s supposedly good and my middle schooler was assigned two whole books to read in three years of public middle school. And those two books were at an elementary level.

PP here. Sounds like there’s a difference between schools that are “supposedly” good and actually good. Reading is fundamental. If a school doesn’t require students to read novels then I would question its reputation.

Many schools DO require students to read novels throughout the year. Just like in the old days. If your school has discontinued this practice, you may want to push back.

Oh come on. You are coming across as precious and a bit dim now. If a school district is highly rated by all measures used to assess public schools, it is “good.” If that same school district doesn’t make middle school kids read a whole book, it’s “supposedly good.” The fact you can’t seem to understand that the same district can be both goes to your limitations more than anything.

It is difficult to disentangle whether a school is good because it is good at teaching kids, or good because it has smart kids that don't need to be taught much, or good because the data used to show that the school is good is bogus or corrupted. Highly rated schools that don't bother assigning books are probably somewhere in the latter two categories.

[Anonymous]

They probably attended Fairfax County schools. They don’t like to burden students with reading books in high school because it’s too much to ask students to read outside of school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand this. Aren't admissions more competitive than ever? Aren't these the superhuman students who aced the hardest classes, scored extremely highly on SATs, had very time-consuming ECs....? We are told nobody has a chance at these schools, and yet, those who are actually there, can't read a book? How is this possible.

Test prep. Read a short passage find the main idea. Move onto the next skill. Meanwhile, they've never read a whole book about anything. I totally understand why this is happening. Since there's no homework these days, I assign it. My kid is always reading a book for homework, and we're always discussing it.

But that just sounds like a run of the mill 4.0 GPA/grade grabber who we are repeatedly told can't get into, e.g. Columbia.

I mean, my 8th grader is not a big reader and she read a non-fiction psychiatry book over just a few days this summer and we discussed it. Pretty sure she would be capable of discussing Pride and prejudice and Crime and punishment within a couple of weeks. I read these books in HS. They are interesting and not that hard to read.

Those books aren't interesting at all. I mean, Crime & Punishment? Are you now going to tell me War & Peace is interesting too?

Perhaps if we let a kid read a non-fiction psychiatry book instead of Pride and Prejudice or whatever, then things would be better.

But, if you want to read Crime & Punishment, then go for it.

Yes, I read War and Peace and it is interesting.

[Anonymous]

Not really surprising when it is the overwhelming view of parents on this board that the humanities are a complete waste of time, and everyone needs to be studying CS to make maximum $$ in tech or finance.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand this. Aren't admissions more competitive than ever? Aren't these the superhuman students who aced the hardest classes, scored extremely highly on SATs, had very time-consuming ECs....? We are told nobody has a chance at these schools, and yet, those who are actually there, can't read a book? How is this possible.

Test prep. Read a short passage find the main idea. Move onto the next skill. Meanwhile, they've never read a whole book about anything. I totally understand why this is happening. Since there's no homework these days, I assign it. My kid is always reading a book for homework, and we're always discussing it.

But that just sounds like a run of the mill 4.0 GPA/grade grabber who we are repeatedly told can't get into, e.g. Columbia.

I mean, my 8th grader is not a big reader and she read a non-fiction psychiatry book over just a few days this summer and we discussed it. Pretty sure she would be capable of discussing Pride and prejudice and Crime and punishment within a couple of weeks. I read these books in HS. They are interesting and not that hard to read.

Those books aren't interesting at all. I mean, Crime & Punishment? Are you now going to tell me War & Peace is interesting too?

Perhaps if we let a kid read a non-fiction psychiatry book instead of Pride and Prejudice or whatever, then things would be better.

But, if you want to read Crime & Punishment, then go for it.

DP. Read Crime and Punishment in high school and it still ranks as one of my all time favorites. It’s phenomenal.

I read it in high school and hated it. My friends invented some in-jokes off of it and that was the best part.

Spoiler. There's a wack job who murders an old lady and that's basically the only interesting scene in 300 pages. The rest is a bunch of dull policing and OP having recriminations and delirious sweats.

And I liked Moby Dick even though it has tons of filler. So it's not that I can't handle a bit of tedium with my great literature.

The great Russian novels should be left for college.

Not true at all. He didn't murder one lady; there is a lot of romance etc. This is what people who haven't read the book think.

I read it all. Pre-1900s romance is boooooring. I had to become middle-aged to understand how Pride & Prejudice could be romantic. C&P is an unhappy, depressing book all the way through.

The fact that you think it's boring just shows you haven't trained your mind to understand it. This is why when people say "Who cares what kids read, just let them read!" I always flinch. Minds and character are for training, and what you read will train you. Start reading the good stuff and you'll be able to read the harder, longer good stuff when you're older.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Not really surprising when it is the overwhelming view of parents on this board that the humanities are a complete waste of time, and everyone needs to be studying CS to make maximum $$ in tech or finance.

Meanwhile some of the very best minds in actual computer science - not software engineering or cowboy coding or being an elite "hacker," but the people who invented the very concepts that drive computing - will tell you the liberal arts are critical to their thinking.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand this. Aren't admissions more competitive than ever? Aren't these the superhuman students who aced the hardest classes, scored extremely highly on SATs, had very time-consuming ECs....? We are told nobody has a chance at these schools, and yet, those who are actually there, can't read a book? How is this possible.

Test prep. Read a short passage find the main idea. Move onto the next skill. Meanwhile, they've never read a whole book about anything. I totally understand why this is happening. Since there's no homework these days, I assign it. My kid is always reading a book for homework, and we're always discussing it.

But that just sounds like a run of the mill 4.0 GPA/grade grabber who we are repeatedly told can't get into, e.g. Columbia.

I mean, my 8th grader is not a big reader and she read a non-fiction psychiatry book over just a few days this summer and we discussed it. Pretty sure she would be capable of discussing Pride and prejudice and Crime and punishment within a couple of weeks. I read these books in HS. They are interesting and not that hard to read.

Those books aren't interesting at all. I mean, Crime & Punishment? Are you now going to tell me War & Peace is interesting too?

Perhaps if we let a kid read a non-fiction psychiatry book instead of Pride and Prejudice or whatever, then things would be better.

But, if you want to read Crime & Punishment, then go for it.

DP. Read Crime and Punishment in high school and it still ranks as one of my all time favorites. It’s phenomenal.

I read it in high school and hated it. My friends invented some in-jokes off of it and that was the best part.

Spoiler. There's a wack job who murders an old lady and that's basically the only interesting scene in 300 pages. The rest is a bunch of dull policing and OP having recriminations and delirious sweats.

And I liked Moby Dick even though it has tons of filler. So it's not that I can't handle a bit of tedium with my great literature.

The great Russian novels should be left for college.

Not true at all. He didn't murder one lady; there is a lot of romance etc. This is what people who haven't read the book think.

I read it all. Pre-1900s romance is boooooring. I had to become middle-aged to understand how Pride & Prejudice could be romantic. C&P is an unhappy, depressing book all the way through.

The fact that you think it's boring just shows you haven't trained your mind to understand it. This is why when people say "Who cares what kids read, just let them read!" I always flinch. Minds and character are for training, and what you read will train you. Start reading the good stuff and you'll be able to read the harder, longer good stuff when you're older.

It’s all just taste and opinion.

You sound like someone that also believes that you should only listen to classical music and opera.

Why not just accept people like what they like and don’t like what they don’t like and move on.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not really surprising when it is the overwhelming view of parents on this board that the humanities are a complete waste of time, and everyone needs to be studying CS to make maximum $$ in tech or finance.

Meanwhile some of the very best minds in actual computer science - not software engineering or cowboy coding or being an elite "hacker," but the people who invented the very concepts that drive computing - will tell you the liberal arts are critical to their thinking.

Although it tends to be philosophy and logic vs reading fiction.

Einstein loved the great thinkers, but you don’t read about him extolling the virtues of literature authors.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Parenting. Try it.

This is an indictment of our education system. If children aren’t reading entire books as part of a path to graduation, we as a society should be demanding more. I doubt these parents of students at elite universities are failing at their part in this…their kids are literally at an ivy.

Parents aren’t teachers, we all learned this in the pandemic.

If a book is assigned, and a kid didn't read it, that's on the kid and maybe the parent if the parent had a way of knowing the assignment; if the kid didn't read the books and managed to graduate with a 4.0UW? That's on the school.

Multiple posters are saying entire books are not required at their kids’ schools.

Our school used to do summer reading, as in pick a book and do a report on it. Many kids just pulled summaries from the internet. It's too easy to get away with not doing things you don't like doing these days.

Girl. I went to private and had to read tons of books. But are you all forgetting about Cliff Notes? It was our version of internet summaries.
Btw, My kids have done AAP/Honors/IB in FCPS and they’ve had to read entire books in school. We also go to library, have always encouraged reading, etc. I think a huge part of it is too much screen time and parental importance placed on reading.

Oh for goodness sake. I have always read with DC. I read a lot. And my kid is an athlete and in AP and honors classes. They don’t read books. Maybe 3 all of HS. And dc doesn’t like to read outside of school, no matter how much I wish otherwise.

So no. Not the case for everyone.

I have one of each, and I find smugness over having reader kids extremely annoying. I am not a good parent to one child and a bad one to the other because one loves reading and one never reads. We have always encouraged reading and read a lot ourselves.

[Anonymous]

I went to FCPS in the 90s and we had lots of assigned books in high school, but I have to say, I don’t think I ever really fully grasped what I was reading. I’ve always thought it’s kind of odd that we expect teenagers with almost no life experience to understand themes in literature written by adults for adults.

Nevertheless, despite my lack of understanding and over dependence on Cliff’s Notes, I got a 5 on my AP English test and never took another English class again. Many years later, as an adult, I discovered a love of reading, revisited many of the novels I read in high school, and finally understood what they were all about! Now I have teenagers who both love to read, but honestly, I’m not too sure they’re really getting it either.

[Anonymous]

In the 90s, my AP Lit teacher (private HS in the NYC area) told us we wouldn't get to all the books on the list for the exam and we should go rent the movies for as many as we could.

We read full books, but even then the amount of material on the AP exam didn't lend itself to being covered. I imagine the list is the same or longer now?