Just got yelled at for leaving my kid alone in in the car while I went to the pharmacy

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:You can totally leave it running for the AC, leave the key fob with the kid and have them lock the door. Then when you get back, they unlock it for you. 7 is plenty old to do this.

I worry about a car jacker showing up with a gun and demanding that the car be unlocked.

You are worrying about a fantasy that will never happen.

Yeah. You tell ‘em.

Or…

https://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/two-juveniles-sought-in-car-theft-with-child-inside-in-northwest-dc-police/3172083/

https://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/4-month-old-girl-found-after-being-taken-in-georgetown-car-theft/3508529/

Those cars were not parked in parking lots with security guards-- they were parked on the street.

The kids in those cases were much younger. In the case of the infant, the carjacker likely did not even realize the baby was in the car for some time.

It's also not clear how long those cars were left idling. In the infant case the mom left the car to go into a perfume store (wtf). Are these cases of people running short errands nearby or are they cases of people using leaving kids in idling cars for 30 or 60 minutes?

The PP is envisioning a situation where a carjacker approaches a locked car with a 7 year old visible in the back seat, and in full view of the security guard and what I'm sure are security cameras outside the pharmacy, points a gun at the child and demands they unlock the car. In the 3-5 minutes the mom was inside the pharmacy.

This will not happen.

So the security guard was babysitting the child? Is that his job?

I actually do think it's his job. It was a few minutes and the mom was right inside. The child is 7, not 2.

The other day I was at the grocery store with my 8 yr old and it started pouring rain while we were in the store. DD was in flipflops (post swim class) and I decided to run and get the car and pick her up at the curb. I left her in the vestibule next to the door. I did consider this a reasonably safe option in part because there was a security guard posted near the door and the area is monitored by cameras.

Am I a derelict parent for leaving an elementary kid alone in public for a few minutes?

You alone think his job is childcare for lazy parents. Do you leave your children with strangers often without even checking with them letting them know they are in charge? Do you dump your 7 yr old at the pool for the day because the lifegaurds will take over? At the mall? Or anywhere with a security guard because it’s their job to watch kids?

DP but I don’t think it’s fair to equate this to childcare. The security guard has the purpose of deterring crime whether it’s for a 7 year old sitting in a car or a 70 year old sitting in a car. If the kid were 8 (or 10 or whatever age DCUM declares is ok) then it wouldn’t be babysitting, but at 7 it is?

OP’s error was leaving the car running. Also, I have my pharmacy at the grocery store so I can pick it up during routine shopping. There are also pharmacies with drive throughs. These may be better options for the future.

You’re putting your kid’s life in a security guard’s hands? The same security guard who is probably told to stand down and not pursue criminals? Hardened criminals won’t be deterred by a toothless rent a cop.

Okay but when I’m in that shopping center I’m also putting my own life in the hands of the rent a cop. I’m a 5’0 100 lb female who could not fight off a car jacker. Neither could most 75 year old ladies. Why is it ok for him to supposedly be there to protect adults but not kids?

np. Rent-a-cops won't protect you if there is a danger. Retail security guards aren't paid enough to put their own life in danger, nor does the store want to deal with potential assault claims.

The fact that a security guard could detain someone committing a crime will deter most people. The security guard is also, as pp stated, mostly there to stop theft.

Ok so the security guard is a red herring. Take the security guard out of the equation and assume he can’t stop a thing. He can’t stop a carjacking but he also can’t stop a car/pedestrian accident or mass shooting etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You can totally leave it running for the AC, leave the key fob with the kid and have them lock the door. Then when you get back, they unlock it for you. 7 is plenty old to do this.

I worry about a car jacker showing up with a gun and demanding that the car be unlocked.

You are worrying about a fantasy that will never happen.

Yeah. You tell ‘em.

Or…

https://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/two-juveniles-sought-in-car-theft-with-child-inside-in-northwest-dc-police/3172083/

https://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/4-month-old-girl-found-after-being-taken-in-georgetown-car-theft/3508529/

Those cars were not parked in parking lots with security guards-- they were parked on the street.

The kids in those cases were much younger. In the case of the infant, the carjacker likely did not even realize the baby was in the car for some time.

It's also not clear how long those cars were left idling. In the infant case the mom left the car to go into a perfume store (wtf). Are these cases of people running short errands nearby or are they cases of people using leaving kids in idling cars for 30 or 60 minutes?

The PP is envisioning a situation where a carjacker approaches a locked car with a 7 year old visible in the back seat, and in full view of the security guard and what I'm sure are security cameras outside the pharmacy, points a gun at the child and demands they unlock the car. In the 3-5 minutes the mom was inside the pharmacy.

This will not happen.

So the security guard was babysitting the child? Is that his job?

I actually do think it's his job. It was a few minutes and the mom was right inside. The child is 7, not 2.

The other day I was at the grocery store with my 8 yr old and it started pouring rain while we were in the store. DD was in flipflops (post swim class) and I decided to run and get the car and pick her up at the curb. I left her in the vestibule next to the door. I did consider this a reasonably safe option in part because there was a security guard posted near the door and the area is monitored by cameras.

Am I a derelict parent for leaving an elementary kid alone in public for a few minutes?

You alone think his job is childcare for lazy parents. Do you leave your children with strangers often without even checking with them letting them know they are in charge? Do you dump your 7 yr old at the pool for the day because the lifegaurds will take over? At the mall? Or anywhere with a security guard because it’s their job to watch kids?

DP but I don’t think it’s fair to equate this to childcare. The security guard has the purpose of deterring crime whether it’s for a 7 year old sitting in a car or a 70 year old sitting in a car. If the kid were 8 (or 10 or whatever age DCUM declares is ok) then it wouldn’t be babysitting, but at 7 it is?

OP’s error was leaving the car running. Also, I have my pharmacy at the grocery store so I can pick it up during routine shopping. There are also pharmacies with drive throughs. These may be better options for the future.

You’re putting your kid’s life in a security guard’s hands? The same security guard who is probably told to stand down and not pursue criminals? Hardened criminals won’t be deterred by a toothless rent a cop.

Okay but when I’m in that shopping center I’m also putting my own life in the hands of the rent a cop. I’m a 5’0 100 lb female who could not fight off a car jacker. Neither could most 75 year old ladies. Why is it ok for him to supposedly be there to protect adults but not kids?

np. Rent-a-cops won't protect you if there is a danger. Retail security guards aren't paid enough to put their own life in danger, nor does the store want to deal with potential assault claims.

The fact that a security guard could detain someone committing a crime will deter most people. The security guard is also, as pp stated, mostly there to stop theft.

Ok so the security guard is a red herring. Take the security guard out of the equation and assume he can’t stop a thing. He can’t stop a carjacking but he also can’t stop a car/pedestrian accident or mass shooting etc.

One might ask why he is even there then if he is pointless.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You can totally leave it running for the AC, leave the key fob with the kid and have them lock the door. Then when you get back, they unlock it for you. 7 is plenty old to do this.

I worry about a car jacker showing up with a gun and demanding that the car be unlocked.

You are worrying about a fantasy that will never happen.

Yeah. You tell ‘em.

Or…

https://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/two-juveniles-sought-in-car-theft-with-child-inside-in-northwest-dc-police/3172083/

https://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/4-month-old-girl-found-after-being-taken-in-georgetown-car-theft/3508529/

Those cars were not parked in parking lots with security guards-- they were parked on the street.

The kids in those cases were much younger. In the case of the infant, the carjacker likely did not even realize the baby was in the car for some time.

It's also not clear how long those cars were left idling. In the infant case the mom left the car to go into a perfume store (wtf). Are these cases of people running short errands nearby or are they cases of people using leaving kids in idling cars for 30 or 60 minutes?

The PP is envisioning a situation where a carjacker approaches a locked car with a 7 year old visible in the back seat, and in full view of the security guard and what I'm sure are security cameras outside the pharmacy, points a gun at the child and demands they unlock the car. In the 3-5 minutes the mom was inside the pharmacy.

This will not happen.

So the security guard was babysitting the child? Is that his job?

I actually do think it's his job. It was a few minutes and the mom was right inside. The child is 7, not 2.

The other day I was at the grocery store with my 8 yr old and it started pouring rain while we were in the store. DD was in flipflops (post swim class) and I decided to run and get the car and pick her up at the curb. I left her in the vestibule next to the door. I did consider this a reasonably safe option in part because there was a security guard posted near the door and the area is monitored by cameras.

Am I a derelict parent for leaving an elementary kid alone in public for a few minutes?

It is your primary responsibility as a parent to keep your child safe. You make the guard’s job harder by handing over that job to the guard because you can’t turn off the car while you run into the store. So self-centered.

Again -- in a functional society no one considers a security guard keeping an eye on an older kid in a car for 10 minutes to be "baby-sitting." It's just being a person in society. But the US is not functional around families and children so we have this deranged idea that from birth until like 12 or 13 a parent must have eyes on their child at all times OR be paying a professional child minder to watch their kid. It is nonsensical and is actually BAD for kids in the long run.

The point is that a 7 year old is actually perfectly capable of handling themselves in a car for a few minutes. The security guard is not a baby-sitter (it's not a baby!) but is a layer of social protection against some of the rare and unlikely circumstances people are fretting about -- a carjacking or car accident. Those things are almost definitely not going to happen and the presence of a security guard makes them less likely.

This is how watching kids works in normal societies where kids are viewed as normal and necessary. People in other countries do not freak out when they see an unattended 7 year old in a public space where there are responsible adults present because why would they -- that kid is safe. It is only in the US where we have all been convinced that this is a dangerous situation thanks to the efforts of scare mongers who are mostly trying to rally hatred of working mothers and poor people (if it's illegal to leave any child alone for any length of time for any reason then I guess women have to stay home with kids for 18 years and poor people should not have kids at all right).

It’s not his job. If he’s busy watching the kid then he’s not doing his actual job. What a selfish viewpoint. It’s your job to keep an eye on your own kids and you’re neglecting it. Why aren’t you doing the job youself?

It’s not a job! It’s a child living their life in a public space. It’s perfectly safe.

But I won’t do it. Because of people like you. And it adds to the stress of parenting.

The birth rate will continue to decline. The high costs combined with the intense expectations are just unbearable.

I did my part. I had 3 kids. And I made them come with me to run errands and into the store and carried my tantrum prone daughter like a football to drop her older brother off in preschool because we weren’t allowed to leave them in the car. My daughter wanted to stay and play too, so dragging her in for drop off was a nightmare but i had no choice. Everyone gets through it. Luckily my kids are legit old enough to stay at home. I don’t leave them in the car because they will for sure fight. Mostly I just plan my errands for when the kids aren’t with me. Your 7 yr olds aren’t old enough yet but will be soon.

Bootstraps and walking to school 3 miles uphill both ways in the snow.
Why do you want it to suck for your kids too just because you had to do it? It makes the kids more anxious to have to overparent like this. They learn they can’t be trusted.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You can totally leave it running for the AC, leave the key fob with the kid and have them lock the door. Then when you get back, they unlock it for you. 7 is plenty old to do this.

I worry about a car jacker showing up with a gun and demanding that the car be unlocked.

You are worrying about a fantasy that will never happen.

Yeah. You tell ‘em.

Or…

https://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/two-juveniles-sought-in-car-theft-with-child-inside-in-northwest-dc-police/3172083/

https://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/4-month-old-girl-found-after-being-taken-in-georgetown-car-theft/3508529/

Those cars were not parked in parking lots with security guards-- they were parked on the street.

The kids in those cases were much younger. In the case of the infant, the carjacker likely did not even realize the baby was in the car for some time.

It's also not clear how long those cars were left idling. In the infant case the mom left the car to go into a perfume store (wtf). Are these cases of people running short errands nearby or are they cases of people using leaving kids in idling cars for 30 or 60 minutes?

The PP is envisioning a situation where a carjacker approaches a locked car with a 7 year old visible in the back seat, and in full view of the security guard and what I'm sure are security cameras outside the pharmacy, points a gun at the child and demands they unlock the car. In the 3-5 minutes the mom was inside the pharmacy.

This will not happen.

So the security guard was babysitting the child? Is that his job?

I actually do think it's his job. It was a few minutes and the mom was right inside. The child is 7, not 2.

The other day I was at the grocery store with my 8 yr old and it started pouring rain while we were in the store. DD was in flipflops (post swim class) and I decided to run and get the car and pick her up at the curb. I left her in the vestibule next to the door. I did consider this a reasonably safe option in part because there was a security guard posted near the door and the area is monitored by cameras.

Am I a derelict parent for leaving an elementary kid alone in public for a few minutes?

It is your primary responsibility as a parent to keep your child safe. You make the guard’s job harder by handing over that job to the guard because you can’t turn off the car while you run into the store. So self-centered.

Again -- in a functional society no one considers a security guard keeping an eye on an older kid in a car for 10 minutes to be "baby-sitting." It's just being a person in society. But the US is not functional around families and children so we have this deranged idea that from birth until like 12 or 13 a parent must have eyes on their child at all times OR be paying a professional child minder to watch their kid. It is nonsensical and is actually BAD for kids in the long run.

The point is that a 7 year old is actually perfectly capable of handling themselves in a car for a few minutes. The security guard is not a baby-sitter (it's not a baby!) but is a layer of social protection against some of the rare and unlikely circumstances people are fretting about -- a carjacking or car accident. Those things are almost definitely not going to happen and the presence of a security guard makes them less likely.

This is how watching kids works in normal societies where kids are viewed as normal and necessary. People in other countries do not freak out when they see an unattended 7 year old in a public space where there are responsible adults present because why would they -- that kid is safe. It is only in the US where we have all been convinced that this is a dangerous situation thanks to the efforts of scare mongers who are mostly trying to rally hatred of working mothers and poor people (if it's illegal to leave any child alone for any length of time for any reason then I guess women have to stay home with kids for 18 years and poor people should not have kids at all right).

It’s not his job. If he’s busy watching the kid then he’s not doing his actual job. What a selfish viewpoint. It’s your job to keep an eye on your own kids and you’re neglecting it. Why aren’t you doing the job youself?

It’s not a job! It’s a child living their life in a public space. It’s perfectly safe.

But I won’t do it. Because of people like you. And it adds to the stress of parenting.

The birth rate will continue to decline. The high costs combined with the intense expectations are just unbearable.

I did my part. I had 3 kids. And I made them come with me to run errands and into the store and carried my tantrum prone daughter like a football to drop her older brother off in preschool because we weren’t allowed to leave them in the car. My daughter wanted to stay and play too, so dragging her in for drop off was a nightmare but i had no choice. Everyone gets through it. Luckily my kids are legit old enough to stay at home. I don’t leave them in the car because they will for sure fight. Mostly I just plan my errands for when the kids aren’t with me. Your 7 yr olds aren’t old enough yet but will be soon.

Your tantruming kid could have slipped from your arms and ran in front of a car. Or fallen and hit her head.

Like you do realize there’s a small risk of something bad happening in either scenario. You’re not morally superior for dragging a screaming kid out of the car. Also I too have 3 kids (ages 10, 7, and 3) and none of my kids scream at having to run an errand. Soooo I can one up you there if you want to play that game.

Well, my tantrumming kid also has special needs, but yay you for not having that extra burden! She has a developmental disability, are we still playing the game?

Oooh I knew you were going to say that and I almost my mentioned in my prior post I have a kid with SNs (AuDHD). I know how to avoid taking him places when he may get dysregulated.

Cool, cool. Guess you don’t have to deal with leaving a kid in a car bc you never have to take your kids everywhere. So not sure what your issue is here? You have no experience. Also of course you knew i was gojng to say that because kids acting inappropriately usually have a reason why theh act that way. But you knew that, supposedly.

[Anonymous]

No matter what you think, it is illegal. Unless you want to risk a CPS investigation, take your kids inside with you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:No matter what you think, it is illegal. Unless you want to risk a CPS investigation, take your kids inside with you.

Except in VA where OP lives it is not illegal (you can leave kids over age 4 in a car alone in VA).

So this security guard was just being a nosy ahole and OP did nothing wrong.

The end.

[Anonymous]

Btw this is legal in many states. In California and Pennsylvania you can leave a child over age 6 alone in a car. In VA it's age 4. In Texas and Hawaii you can actually leave even younger kids in the car as long as you are not gone for more than 5 minutes. Some states allow it if there is an older child in the car.

So the blanket reprobation OP is receiving from many of you on this thread is no consistent with the legal landscape or social norms across the country. Ok if OP were in maryland she'd be violating the law (by a few months!). In WA state you can't leave kids in cars alone until age 12 (wow). But obviously in a lot of places in the US it is legal and acceptable to leave a 7 yr old in a car. So it's weird that some of you are acting like this is a horribly negligent behavior when it's pretty much in line with how much of the country thinks about child safety and the maturity level needed to leave a kid in a car alone.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Btw this is legal in many states. In California and Pennsylvania you can leave a child over age 6 alone in a car. In VA it's age 4. In Texas and Hawaii you can actually leave even younger kids in the car as long as you are not gone for more than 5 minutes. Some states allow it if there is an older child in the car.

So the blanket reprobation OP is receiving from many of you on this thread is no consistent with the legal landscape or social norms across the country. Ok if OP were in maryland she'd be violating the law (by a few months!). In WA state you can't leave kids in cars alone until age 12 (wow). But obviously in a lot of places in the US it is legal and acceptable to leave a 7 yr old in a car. So it's weird that some of you are acting like this is a horribly negligent behavior when it's pretty much in line with how much of the country thinks about child safety and the maturity level needed to leave a kid in a car alone.

Only 20 states have laws against leaving kids alone in cars and in even many of those states a 7 year old is above the age where it is allowed: https://www.kidsandcars.org/laws/unattended-children-in-vehicle

I will note (I am an attorney who has worked on child abuse and neglect cases) that you could still violate the law if you left a kid alone in a car in a way that put them in obvious danger. But leaving the car running is actually unlikely to be viewed as neglect especially since in this case it was obviously done to keep the kid from getting too hot. I think it would have to be something like leaving the child for a long period of time or in a location where a car would be very likely to be hit (like the shoulder of a highway). I know a judge would also look critically at the reason the child was left. Running into a pharmacy for a few minutes would be seen by most as okay whereas leaving a kid outside a casino to go gamble would not. There are judgment calls here but unless you were in a state with a blanket ban on leaving a 7 yr old in a car (very few states) OP would be legally fine.

Y'all need to chill.

[Anonymous]

OP - last time. I won’t be leaving my kid in the car again. This was a safe neighborhood, not some crime ridden CVS in the hoods?!? of Nothern Virginia. There is a reason the security guard was there that doesn’t really have anything to do with crime. I’m not going to say why because I feel like that would give away more information than I am comfortable with.

People saying that I don’t parent are ridiculous, or that I am lazy. No, I think my son is responsible enough to be left in the car. He is risk averse and not the type of kid to try and drive the car; we’ve spoken about that. There was obviously a security guard there. Last night I had to have another conversation with him where I told him he did nothing wrong and I was wrong (I still don’t think what I did was wrong but obviously we live in a society so). The security guard scared him, because he questioned him and because he was correcting me. I mean, I just wonder about raising a kid in a society where he can’t be left alone for a second and we have to constantly be afraid of carjackers and kidnappers in the hood that is Northern Virginia. When I was his age, I could go outside and play with my friends with no adult supervision. Our society is so anti-family and so wrapped up in fear. Anyway whatever. I’ve been chastised. I’ll wait until he is 13? before I leave him alone again. The mom shamers have been vindicated.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You can totally leave it running for the AC, leave the key fob with the kid and have them lock the door. Then when you get back, they unlock it for you. 7 is plenty old to do this.

I worry about a car jacker showing up with a gun and demanding that the car be unlocked.

You are worrying about a fantasy that will never happen.

Yeah. You tell ‘em.

Or…

https://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/two-juveniles-sought-in-car-theft-with-child-inside-in-northwest-dc-police/3172083/

https://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/4-month-old-girl-found-after-being-taken-in-georgetown-car-theft/3508529/

Those cars were not parked in parking lots with security guards-- they were parked on the street.

The kids in those cases were much younger. In the case of the infant, the carjacker likely did not even realize the baby was in the car for some time.

It's also not clear how long those cars were left idling. In the infant case the mom left the car to go into a perfume store (wtf). Are these cases of people running short errands nearby or are they cases of people using leaving kids in idling cars for 30 or 60 minutes?

The PP is envisioning a situation where a carjacker approaches a locked car with a 7 year old visible in the back seat, and in full view of the security guard and what I'm sure are security cameras outside the pharmacy, points a gun at the child and demands they unlock the car. In the 3-5 minutes the mom was inside the pharmacy.

This will not happen.

So the security guard was babysitting the child? Is that his job?

I actually do think it's his job. It was a few minutes and the mom was right inside. The child is 7, not 2.

The other day I was at the grocery store with my 8 yr old and it started pouring rain while we were in the store. DD was in flipflops (post swim class) and I decided to run and get the car and pick her up at the curb. I left her in the vestibule next to the door. I did consider this a reasonably safe option in part because there was a security guard posted near the door and the area is monitored by cameras.

Am I a derelict parent for leaving an elementary kid alone in public for a few minutes?

You alone think his job is childcare for lazy parents. Do you leave your children with strangers often without even checking with them letting them know they are in charge? Do you dump your 7 yr old at the pool for the day because the lifegaurds will take over? At the mall? Or anywhere with a security guard because it’s their job to watch kids?

DP but I don’t think it’s fair to equate this to childcare. The security guard has the purpose of deterring crime whether it’s for a 7 year old sitting in a car or a 70 year old sitting in a car. If the kid were 8 (or 10 or whatever age DCUM declares is ok) then it wouldn’t be babysitting, but at 7 it is?

OP’s error was leaving the car running. Also, I have my pharmacy at the grocery store so I can pick it up during routine shopping. There are also pharmacies with drive throughs. These may be better options for the future.

You’re putting your kid’s life in a security guard’s hands? The same security guard who is probably told to stand down and not pursue criminals? Hardened criminals won’t be deterred by a toothless rent a cop.

Okay but when I’m in that shopping center I’m also putting my own life in the hands of the rent a cop. I’m a 5’0 100 lb female who could not fight off a car jacker. Neither could most 75 year old ladies. Why is it ok for him to supposedly be there to protect adults but not kids?

np. Rent-a-cops won't protect you if there is a danger. Retail security guards aren't paid enough to put their own life in danger, nor does the store want to deal with potential assault claims.

The fact that a security guard could detain someone committing a crime will deter most people. The security guard is also, as pp stated, mostly there to stop theft.

Ok so the security guard is a red herring. Take the security guard out of the equation and assume he can’t stop a thing. He can’t stop a carjacking but he also can’t stop a car/pedestrian accident or mass shooting etc.

One might ask why he is even there then if he is pointless.

Probably just to be on the lookout for unusual activity and call the police as needed. It may possibly be a deterrent. But in all likelihood isn’t going to stop someone hellbent on committing a crime.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Btw this is legal in many states. In California and Pennsylvania you can leave a child over age 6 alone in a car. In VA it's age 4. In Texas and Hawaii you can actually leave even younger kids in the car as long as you are not gone for more than 5 minutes. Some states allow it if there is an older child in the car.

So the blanket reprobation OP is receiving from many of you on this thread is no consistent with the legal landscape or social norms across the country. Ok if OP were in maryland she'd be violating the law (by a few months!). In WA state you can't leave kids in cars alone until age 12 (wow). But obviously in a lot of places in the US it is legal and acceptable to leave a 7 yr old in a car. So it's weird that some of you are acting like this is a horribly negligent behavior when it's pretty much in line with how much of the country thinks about child safety and the maturity level needed to leave a kid in a car alone.

Only 20 states have laws against leaving kids alone in cars and in even many of those states a 7 year old is above the age where it is allowed: https://www.kidsandcars.org/laws/unattended-children-in-vehicle

I will note (I am an attorney who has worked on child abuse and neglect cases) that you could still violate the law if you left a kid alone in a car in a way that put them in obvious danger. But leaving the car running is actually unlikely to be viewed as neglect especially since in this case it was obviously done to keep the kid from getting too hot. I think it would have to be something like leaving the child for a long period of time or in a location where a car would be very likely to be hit (like the shoulder of a highway). I know a judge would also look critically at the reason the child was left. Running into a pharmacy for a few minutes would be seen by most as okay whereas leaving a kid outside a casino to go gamble would not. There are judgment calls here but unless you were in a state with a blanket ban on leaving a 7 yr old in a car (very few states) OP would be legally fine.

Y'all need to chill.

It would be illegal in Alabama, Connecticut, Kentucky, Maryland, Missouri, Nevada, Utah, or Washington. Everywhere else it would be legal.

[Anonymous]

Illegal? A 7 year old? Well by now I should have gotten life sentence.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You can totally leave it running for the AC, leave the key fob with the kid and have them lock the door. Then when you get back, they unlock it for you. 7 is plenty old to do this.

I worry about a car jacker showing up with a gun and demanding that the car be unlocked.

You are worrying about a fantasy that will never happen.

Yeah. You tell ‘em.

Or…

https://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/two-juveniles-sought-in-car-theft-with-child-inside-in-northwest-dc-police/3172083/

https://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/4-month-old-girl-found-after-being-taken-in-georgetown-car-theft/3508529/

Those cars were not parked in parking lots with security guards-- they were parked on the street.

The kids in those cases were much younger. In the case of the infant, the carjacker likely did not even realize the baby was in the car for some time.

It's also not clear how long those cars were left idling. In the infant case the mom left the car to go into a perfume store (wtf). Are these cases of people running short errands nearby or are they cases of people using leaving kids in idling cars for 30 or 60 minutes?

The PP is envisioning a situation where a carjacker approaches a locked car with a 7 year old visible in the back seat, and in full view of the security guard and what I'm sure are security cameras outside the pharmacy, points a gun at the child and demands they unlock the car. In the 3-5 minutes the mom was inside the pharmacy.

This will not happen.

So the security guard was babysitting the child? Is that his job?

I actually do think it's his job. It was a few minutes and the mom was right inside. The child is 7, not 2.

The other day I was at the grocery store with my 8 yr old and it started pouring rain while we were in the store. DD was in flipflops (post swim class) and I decided to run and get the car and pick her up at the curb. I left her in the vestibule next to the door. I did consider this a reasonably safe option in part because there was a security guard posted near the door and the area is monitored by cameras.

Am I a derelict parent for leaving an elementary kid alone in public for a few minutes?

It is your primary responsibility as a parent to keep your child safe. You make the guard’s job harder by handing over that job to the guard because you can’t turn off the car while you run into the store. So self-centered.

Again -- in a functional society no one considers a security guard keeping an eye on an older kid in a car for 10 minutes to be "baby-sitting." It's just being a person in society. But the US is not functional around families and children so we have this deranged idea that from birth until like 12 or 13 a parent must have eyes on their child at all times OR be paying a professional child minder to watch their kid. It is nonsensical and is actually BAD for kids in the long run.

The point is that a 7 year old is actually perfectly capable of handling themselves in a car for a few minutes. The security guard is not a baby-sitter (it's not a baby!) but is a layer of social protection against some of the rare and unlikely circumstances people are fretting about -- a carjacking or car accident. Those things are almost definitely not going to happen and the presence of a security guard makes them less likely.

This is how watching kids works in normal societies where kids are viewed as normal and necessary. People in other countries do not freak out when they see an unattended 7 year old in a public space where there are responsible adults present because why would they -- that kid is safe. It is only in the US where we have all been convinced that this is a dangerous situation thanks to the efforts of scare mongers who are mostly trying to rally hatred of working mothers and poor people (if it's illegal to leave any child alone for any length of time for any reason then I guess women have to stay home with kids for 18 years and poor people should not have kids at all right).

It’s not his job. If he’s busy watching the kid then he’s not doing his actual job. What a selfish viewpoint. It’s your job to keep an eye on your own kids and you’re neglecting it. Why aren’t you doing the job youself?

It’s not a job! It’s a child living their life in a public space. It’s perfectly safe.

But I won’t do it. Because of people like you. And it adds to the stress of parenting.

The birth rate will continue to decline. The high costs combined with the intense expectations are just unbearable.

I did my part. I had 3 kids. And I made them come with me to run errands and into the store and carried my tantrum prone daughter like a football to drop her older brother off in preschool because we weren’t allowed to leave them in the car. My daughter wanted to stay and play too, so dragging her in for drop off was a nightmare but i had no choice. Everyone gets through it. Luckily my kids are legit old enough to stay at home. I don’t leave them in the car because they will for sure fight. Mostly I just plan my errands for when the kids aren’t with me. Your 7 yr olds aren’t old enough yet but will be soon.

Your tantruming kid could have slipped from your arms and ran in front of a car. Or fallen and hit her head.

Like you do realize there’s a small risk of something bad happening in either scenario. You’re not morally superior for dragging a screaming kid out of the car. Also I too have 3 kids (ages 10, 7, and 3) and none of my kids scream at having to run an errand. Soooo I can one up you there if you want to play that game.

Well, my tantrumming kid also has special needs, but yay you for not having that extra burden! She has a developmental disability, are we still playing the game?

Oooh I knew you were going to say that and I almost my mentioned in my prior post I have a kid with SNs (AuDHD). I know how to avoid taking him places when he may get dysregulated.

Cool, cool. Guess you don’t have to deal with leaving a kid in a car bc you never have to take your kids everywhere. So not sure what your issue is here? You have no experience. Also of course you knew i was gojng to say that because kids acting inappropriately usually have a reason why theh act that way. But you knew that, supposedly.

I was mimicking how asinine your “I had 3 kids so I did my part and I did it better than you” spiel was. You’re not a better parent just because you took your tantruming kid into a store. You assessed the risks and made a choice that was right for you. But there were still small risks of taking them into the store. Just like there are small risks of leaving a kid in the car. One isn’t necessarily morally superior than the other.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You can totally leave it running for the AC, leave the key fob with the kid and have them lock the door. Then when you get back, they unlock it for you. 7 is plenty old to do this.

I worry about a car jacker showing up with a gun and demanding that the car be unlocked.

You are worrying about a fantasy that will never happen.

Yeah. You tell ‘em.

Or…

https://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/two-juveniles-sought-in-car-theft-with-child-inside-in-northwest-dc-police/3172083/

https://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/4-month-old-girl-found-after-being-taken-in-georgetown-car-theft/3508529/

Those cars were not parked in parking lots with security guards-- they were parked on the street.

The kids in those cases were much younger. In the case of the infant, the carjacker likely did not even realize the baby was in the car for some time.

It's also not clear how long those cars were left idling. In the infant case the mom left the car to go into a perfume store (wtf). Are these cases of people running short errands nearby or are they cases of people using leaving kids in idling cars for 30 or 60 minutes?

The PP is envisioning a situation where a carjacker approaches a locked car with a 7 year old visible in the back seat, and in full view of the security guard and what I'm sure are security cameras outside the pharmacy, points a gun at the child and demands they unlock the car. In the 3-5 minutes the mom was inside the pharmacy.

This will not happen.

So the security guard was babysitting the child? Is that his job?

I actually do think it's his job. It was a few minutes and the mom was right inside. The child is 7, not 2.

The other day I was at the grocery store with my 8 yr old and it started pouring rain while we were in the store. DD was in flipflops (post swim class) and I decided to run and get the car and pick her up at the curb. I left her in the vestibule next to the door. I did consider this a reasonably safe option in part because there was a security guard posted near the door and the area is monitored by cameras.

Am I a derelict parent for leaving an elementary kid alone in public for a few minutes?

It is your primary responsibility as a parent to keep your child safe. You make the guard’s job harder by handing over that job to the guard because you can’t turn off the car while you run into the store. So self-centered.

Again -- in a functional society no one considers a security guard keeping an eye on an older kid in a car for 10 minutes to be "baby-sitting." It's just being a person in society. But the US is not functional around families and children so we have this deranged idea that from birth until like 12 or 13 a parent must have eyes on their child at all times OR be paying a professional child minder to watch their kid. It is nonsensical and is actually BAD for kids in the long run.

The point is that a 7 year old is actually perfectly capable of handling themselves in a car for a few minutes. The security guard is not a baby-sitter (it's not a baby!) but is a layer of social protection against some of the rare and unlikely circumstances people are fretting about -- a carjacking or car accident. Those things are almost definitely not going to happen and the presence of a security guard makes them less likely.

This is how watching kids works in normal societies where kids are viewed as normal and necessary. People in other countries do not freak out when they see an unattended 7 year old in a public space where there are responsible adults present because why would they -- that kid is safe. It is only in the US where we have all been convinced that this is a dangerous situation thanks to the efforts of scare mongers who are mostly trying to rally hatred of working mothers and poor people (if it's illegal to leave any child alone for any length of time for any reason then I guess women have to stay home with kids for 18 years and poor people should not have kids at all right).

It’s not his job. If he’s busy watching the kid then he’s not doing his actual job. What a selfish viewpoint. It’s your job to keep an eye on your own kids and you’re neglecting it. Why aren’t you doing the job youself?

It’s not a job! It’s a child living their life in a public space. It’s perfectly safe.

But I won’t do it. Because of people like you. And it adds to the stress of parenting.

The birth rate will continue to decline. The high costs combined with the intense expectations are just unbearable.

I did my part. I had 3 kids. And I made them come with me to run errands and into the store and carried my tantrum prone daughter like a football to drop her older brother off in preschool because we weren’t allowed to leave them in the car. My daughter wanted to stay and play too, so dragging her in for drop off was a nightmare but i had no choice. Everyone gets through it. Luckily my kids are legit old enough to stay at home. I don’t leave them in the car because they will for sure fight. Mostly I just plan my errands for when the kids aren’t with me. Your 7 yr olds aren’t old enough yet but will be soon.

Every time you take a little kid through a busy parking lot you are putting them at greater risk of bodily harm than just leaving them in the car for a few minutes.

Idiots.

Point is, I don’t make the rules. I follow them and don’t ask for exceptions. I personally know a mom who had CPS visit her after leaving her kid in a car to pick up a pizza. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You can totally leave it running for the AC, leave the key fob with the kid and have them lock the door. Then when you get back, they unlock it for you. 7 is plenty old to do this.

I worry about a car jacker showing up with a gun and demanding that the car be unlocked.

You are worrying about a fantasy that will never happen.

Yeah. You tell ‘em.

Or…

https://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/two-juveniles-sought-in-car-theft-with-child-inside-in-northwest-dc-police/3172083/

https://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/4-month-old-girl-found-after-being-taken-in-georgetown-car-theft/3508529/

Those cars were not parked in parking lots with security guards-- they were parked on the street.

The kids in those cases were much younger. In the case of the infant, the carjacker likely did not even realize the baby was in the car for some time.

It's also not clear how long those cars were left idling. In the infant case the mom left the car to go into a perfume store (wtf). Are these cases of people running short errands nearby or are they cases of people using leaving kids in idling cars for 30 or 60 minutes?

The PP is envisioning a situation where a carjacker approaches a locked car with a 7 year old visible in the back seat, and in full view of the security guard and what I'm sure are security cameras outside the pharmacy, points a gun at the child and demands they unlock the car. In the 3-5 minutes the mom was inside the pharmacy.

This will not happen.

So the security guard was babysitting the child? Is that his job?

I actually do think it's his job. It was a few minutes and the mom was right inside. The child is 7, not 2.

The other day I was at the grocery store with my 8 yr old and it started pouring rain while we were in the store. DD was in flipflops (post swim class) and I decided to run and get the car and pick her up at the curb. I left her in the vestibule next to the door. I did consider this a reasonably safe option in part because there was a security guard posted near the door and the area is monitored by cameras.

Am I a derelict parent for leaving an elementary kid alone in public for a few minutes?

It is your primary responsibility as a parent to keep your child safe. You make the guard’s job harder by handing over that job to the guard because you can’t turn off the car while you run into the store. So self-centered.

Again -- in a functional society no one considers a security guard keeping an eye on an older kid in a car for 10 minutes to be "baby-sitting." It's just being a person in society. But the US is not functional around families and children so we have this deranged idea that from birth until like 12 or 13 a parent must have eyes on their child at all times OR be paying a professional child minder to watch their kid. It is nonsensical and is actually BAD for kids in the long run.

The point is that a 7 year old is actually perfectly capable of handling themselves in a car for a few minutes. The security guard is not a baby-sitter (it's not a baby!) but is a layer of social protection against some of the rare and unlikely circumstances people are fretting about -- a carjacking or car accident. Those things are almost definitely not going to happen and the presence of a security guard makes them less likely.

This is how watching kids works in normal societies where kids are viewed as normal and necessary. People in other countries do not freak out when they see an unattended 7 year old in a public space where there are responsible adults present because why would they -- that kid is safe. It is only in the US where we have all been convinced that this is a dangerous situation thanks to the efforts of scare mongers who are mostly trying to rally hatred of working mothers and poor people (if it's illegal to leave any child alone for any length of time for any reason then I guess women have to stay home with kids for 18 years and poor people should not have kids at all right).

It’s not his job. If he’s busy watching the kid then he’s not doing his actual job. What a selfish viewpoint. It’s your job to keep an eye on your own kids and you’re neglecting it. Why aren’t you doing the job youself?

It’s not a job! It’s a child living their life in a public space. It’s perfectly safe.

But I won’t do it. Because of people like you. And it adds to the stress of parenting.

The birth rate will continue to decline. The high costs combined with the intense expectations are just unbearable.

I did my part. I had 3 kids. And I made them come with me to run errands and into the store and carried my tantrum prone daughter like a football to drop her older brother off in preschool because we weren’t allowed to leave them in the car. My daughter wanted to stay and play too, so dragging her in for drop off was a nightmare but i had no choice. Everyone gets through it. Luckily my kids are legit old enough to stay at home. I don’t leave them in the car because they will for sure fight. Mostly I just plan my errands for when the kids aren’t with me. Your 7 yr olds aren’t old enough yet but will be soon.

Your tantruming kid could have slipped from your arms and ran in front of a car. Or fallen and hit her head.

Like you do realize there’s a small risk of something bad happening in either scenario. You’re not morally superior for dragging a screaming kid out of the car. Also I too have 3 kids (ages 10, 7, and 3) and none of my kids scream at having to run an errand. Soooo I can one up you there if you want to play that game.

Well, my tantrumming kid also has special needs, but yay you for not having that extra burden! She has a developmental disability, are we still playing the game?

Oooh I knew you were going to say that and I almost my mentioned in my prior post I have a kid with SNs (AuDHD). I know how to avoid taking him places when he may get dysregulated.

Cool, cool. Guess you don’t have to deal with leaving a kid in a car bc you never have to take your kids everywhere. So not sure what your issue is here? You have no experience. Also of course you knew i was gojng to say that because kids acting inappropriately usually have a reason why theh act that way. But you knew that, supposedly.

I was mimicking how asinine your “I had 3 kids so I did my part and I did it better than you” spiel was. You’re not a better parent just because you took your tantruming kid into a store. You assessed the risks and made a choice that was right for you. But there were still small risks of taking them into the store. Just like there are small risks of leaving a kid in the car. One isn’t necessarily morally superior than the other.

Ok. I didn’t “assess the risks” i had a toddler and it was against the rules to leave kids in the car. I didn’t decide the rule didn’t apply to me because I’m an uppity princess. You acting like people don’t have more kids because of leaving kids in cars rules is what is asinine.