If TJ has such smart kids, why so much cheating?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Low performing prepped and un-prepped students who cannot handle TJ rigor, and resorting to cheating out of desperation should not have been admitted. How did they make it in such large number? Is remedial not as indepth to bridge the gap?

The unripped kids came from less affluent schools but were at the top of their classes. They usually picked things up quickly. The heavily prepped kids needed more help and often resorted to these less ethical means to continue the charade.

Did TJ announce that it was prepped advanced students and not low performing students that were cheating?

DP. They have been cheating at TJ for years. The pressure to succeed is powerful.

who is They? prepped advanced students or low performing students?

I'd heard most of the kids from the lower-income schools outperform the preppers because they're from the very top of their schools, but many of the preppers struggle to keep up and restore to cheating.

Unfortunately SOLs show otherwise. As does any other measurable metric. URMs always perform poorly when compared to affluent peers. This is exactly why experience factors are part of the admissions process. Without experience factors, many would not get in.

Citation that shows who is doing poorly on SOLs?

The VDOE test results tool is really helpful. https://p1pe.doe.virginia.gov/apex_captcha/home.do?apexTypeId=306

For the 2022-2023 school year, here are the TJ demographics for kids who took the Geometry SOL (pass advanced/pass proficient/fail)
Non-Disadvantaged (38/21/0)
Disadvantaged(11/47/3)

Asian (24/20/1)
Black (2/14/1)
Hispanic (5/16/1)
White (14/16/0)

Also, here's 9th/10th grade Geometry SOL vs. 9th grade Algebra II
Geometry (49/68/3)
Algebra II (167/119/1)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Kids who feel extreme pressure to perform.

It’s been well documented for years.

This. Being prepped or not is not the right variable. Being pressured to succeed or to meet an all As metric with parents or similar pressures is the right variable to watch.

[Anonymous]

Well, here is whats happening: TJ course work and exams are 2x harder than base school. These kids are fearful of getting a B or C even though they know the material really well.

Colleges dont care about course rigor - only grades.

TJ principal and staff turn a blind eye to this well known problem

Hence the cheating.

[Anonymous]

+1 to PP

Roughly 1/3 of the class are truly 'gifted' and breeze thorough. The remaining 2/3 either cheat to keep up or dont care too much (50-50)

And this has been the case for several years now (so not related to the new admissions process)

[Anonymous]

I think the TJ math 4 (trig) exams are 10 times harder than base school. For example, my 9th grade daughter's math 4 unit 4 (vector) exam taken in the middle of May just really was very hard. The exam has 10 pages, total has 26 questions, and 5 free response questions of 26 then have 3 questions. First, the exam has so many questions. Second, the exam is far harder than they learned ,for example, there are two new academy words that can not be found from the precalculus and AP calculus textbooks in this exam. Because the math teacher who made the exam is leading the math competition club at TJ. So, many students failed this test, and many girls cried after the test. Of course, my daughter had a bad mood after the test on that day. When my daughter told me she did not do well on this exam, I told her that is ok as long as you study hard, and you still have chance to improve you grade at the next exams of unit 5 and final exam. I and her father both often tell her never cheating in any exams even if you will get a bad grade, because honest is the most important for you!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:+1 to PP

Roughly 1/3 of the class are truly 'gifted' and breeze thorough. The remaining 2/3 either cheat to keep up or dont care too much (50-50)

And this has been the case for several years now (so not related to the new admissions process)

TJ alumna here. I was in the 2/3 and I neither cheated nor stopped caring. I just accepted a few Bs and not getting into HYP or MIT. Maybe that counts as not caring "too much?"

It's a nice life, being in the 2/3 and being willing to go to a good-enough college, have a good-enough career, and live a good-enough life.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Well, here is whats happening: TJ course work and exams are 2x harder than base school. These kids are fearful of getting a B or C even though they know the material really well.

Colleges dont care about course rigor - only grades.

TJ principal and staff turn a blind eye to this well known problem

Hence the cheating.

This is oversimplifying things. Kids everywhere are cheating. I caught kids cheating at things like elementary school MOEMS contests and elementary Science Olympiad. Some of the cheaters were as young as 4th grade. A lot of kids cheated at the Catholic high school I attended 30 years ago. The biggest change is that cheaters back in the day would have been punished if they were caught, but nowadays, the parents, teachers, and administration are largely turning a blind eye. If kids are getting better outcomes and no consequences for cheating, it's not surprising that so many cheat.

The pandemic also made things much worse. It was incredibly easy for kids to cheat during virtual school, and many of them got into the habit of cheating.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think the TJ math 4 (trig) exams are 10 times harder than base school. For example, my 9th grade daughter's math 4 unit 4 (vector) exam taken in the middle of May just really was very hard. The exam has 10 pages, total has 26 questions, and 5 free response questions of 26 then have 3 questions. First, the exam has so many questions. Second, the exam is far harder than they learned ,for example, there are two new academy words that can not be found from the precalculus and AP calculus textbooks in this exam. Because the math teacher who made the exam is leading the math competition club at TJ. So, many students failed this test, and many girls cried after the test. Of course, my daughter had a bad mood after the test on that day. When my daughter told me she did not do well on this exam, I told her that is ok as long as you study hard, and you still have chance to improve you grade at the next exams of unit 5 and final exam. I and her father both often tell her never cheating in any exams even if you will get a bad grade, because honest is the most important for you!

What does this mean? I don’t understand: were five of the 26 questions free response and then another three for a total,of 29?

[Anonymous]

PP - you are missing the point of the post. TJ math, especially M4 is ridiculously hard and yes, the actual exams are shockingly long in terms of # questions for the time allocated.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:+1 to PP

Roughly 1/3 of the class are truly 'gifted' and breeze thorough. The remaining 2/3 either cheat to keep up or dont care too much (50-50)

And this has been the case for several years now (so not related to the new admissions process)

TJ alumna here. I was in the 2/3 and I neither cheated nor stopped caring. I just accepted a few Bs and not getting into HYP or MIT. Maybe that counts as not caring "too much?"

It's a nice life, being in the 2/3 and being willing to go to a good-enough college, have a good-enough career, and live a good-enough life.

That's what I meant by 'do not care' - in a positive way. happy for you!!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think the TJ math 4 (trig) exams are 10 times harder than base school. For example, my 9th grade daughter's math 4 unit 4 (vector) exam taken in the middle of May just really was very hard. The exam has 10 pages, total has 26 questions, and 5 free response questions of 26 then have 3 questions. First, the exam has so many questions. Second, the exam is far harder than they learned ,for example, there are two new academy words that can not be found from the precalculus and AP calculus textbooks in this exam. Because the math teacher who made the exam is leading the math competition club at TJ. So, many students failed this test, and many girls cried after the test. Of course, my daughter had a bad mood after the test on that day. When my daughter told me she did not do well on this exam, I told her that is ok as long as you study hard, and you still have chance to improve you grade at the next exams of unit 5 and final exam. I and her father both often tell her never cheating in any exams even if you will get a bad grade, because honest is the most important for you!

What does this mean? I don’t understand: were five of the 26 questions free response and then another three for a total,of 29?

26 questions in total. out of which 5 had 3 questions ( within each of them)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think the TJ math 4 (trig) exams are 10 times harder than base school. For example, my 9th grade daughter's math 4 unit 4 (vector) exam taken in the middle of May just really was very hard. The exam has 10 pages, total has 26 questions, and 5 free response questions of 26 then have 3 questions. First, the exam has so many questions. Second, the exam is far harder than they learned ,for example, there are two new academy words that can not be found from the precalculus and AP calculus textbooks in this exam. Because the math teacher who made the exam is leading the math competition club at TJ. So, many students failed this test, and many girls cried after the test. Of course, my daughter had a bad mood after the test on that day. When my daughter told me she did not do well on this exam, I told her that is ok as long as you study hard, and you still have chance to improve you grade at the next exams of unit 5 and final exam. I and her father both often tell her never cheating in any exams even if you will get a bad grade, because honest is the most important for you!

What does this mean? I don’t understand: were five of the 26 questions free response and then another three for a total,of 29?

26 questions in total. out of which 5 had 3 questions ( within each of them)

Got it. But isn’t it better to have more questions rather than fewer, so each one is a smaller percentage of the total? If you get a few wrong, it doesn’t wreck your grade. The fewer questions there are, the bigger a deal it is to get one wrong.

[Anonymous]

From what I have seen if you get 3-4 wrong or do get a chance to complete it - you are pretty much headed for a B (that too assuming that the questions you got to - were answered correctly).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think the TJ math 4 (trig) exams are 10 times harder than base school. For example, my 9th grade daughter's math 4 unit 4 (vector) exam taken in the middle of May just really was very hard. The exam has 10 pages, total has 26 questions, and 5 free response questions of 26 then have 3 questions. First, the exam has so many questions. Second, the exam is far harder than they learned ,for example, there are two new academy words that can not be found from the precalculus and AP calculus textbooks in this exam. Because the math teacher who made the exam is leading the math competition club at TJ. So, many students failed this test, and many girls cried after the test. Of course, my daughter had a bad mood after the test on that day. When my daughter told me she did not do well on this exam, I told her that is ok as long as you study hard, and you still have chance to improve you grade at the next exams of unit 5 and final exam. I and her father both often tell her never cheating in any exams even if you will get a bad grade, because honest is the most important for you!

Which ones? My DD just took a long, tough trig test at a different HS that sounds similar. Curious about the “academy words” on your kid’s test.

[Anonymous]

TJ math is very hard. The only students who do well are natural math geniuses and those who have been grinding math for years. The rest are B students.