Hill Middle Schools

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People dont necessarily want Larla fully taking over and pushing her ideas onto everyone else. That was covered in the nice white parents podcast. Most people are not really stacked against their neighbors of all socioeconomic and racial stripes attending their neighborhood schools.

By "ideas" do you mean things like advanced classes for kids whose performance merits it? Expectations of good classroom management?

People like you impose regressive policies in the name of protecting POC and "equity". What scares me is, I think PP is probably white! Black folks want rigorous academics. Black folks want kid in seats learning. Black folks want troublemakers the heck away from our kids. There exists in DC a vocal minority of "activists" that would rather prove some anti-gentrifier point than get black folks educated. It (and condescending white folks like you) make me sick.

+1. This is what happens when zealots take over a school district. It's all to score political points.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If the Hill middle schools improved, they woudl suddenly become overcrowded. People would stop trucking to faraway charters and Deal/Hardy. They would have to stop admitting OOB students. The net effect would be a much whiter and higher-income student body and the OOB kids would probably end up at worse schools (or maybe at okayish charters).

If they consolidated high-performing kids in one middle school, it would be so overcrowded that they would have to de-consolidate it after a few years. It's not a workable plan politically or logistically.

What can be done? Work on your elementary school's upper grade offering so that the middle schools of the city are receiving kids as well-prepared as possible. If you're at a feeder or attend a middle school, push for higher quality but with an understanding of the complex and sensitive politics and the budget constraints. This isn't an easy problem.

I appreciate this post, and the post a few prior with regards to actually thinking about funding. For those on here saying 'just fund it/build it and they will come' have probably not participated on a school LSAT, gone to budget townhalls, met with council members, or followed how school funding is allocated. Principals have very limited control on what they can/can't fund, and this year (and the next few) are going to be tough with budget cuts. The city as a whole is having to rethink it's budget with less people working downtown post COVID, and the extra $$ schools got due to COVID running out. There is also a new funding model which provides more funds to schools with higher special education numbers and higher at risk numbers which I think is a good thing. I would also argue that spending money on new facilities (like Jefferson and EH) is an important investment - shows the kids and families they are valued, and also makes sure they have schools not just with up to date facilities for new course offerings, but also that they have schools with the bare minimum like plumbing/toilets that work, roofs that don't leak, etc.
While funding and policy does not change overnight, enrollment can change quickly, which then impacts funding, staffing, etc. I just pulled up Eliot Hine data as an example (couldn't find it for this year) - and enrollment has grown significantly. I know many 5th grade families from the feeders (ourselves included) who did not lottery in 4th and will be at EH this fall, so I wouldn't be surprised if the enrollment continues to grow.
2016-2017 - 200 students
2020-2021 - 291 students
2021-2022 - 317 students
All that to say, I appreciate the attention to how complex this is.

Would be really great if there was more buy in to the local middle schools. I do think that there might be more buy in. I am worried about the weakening academics in some of the feeders and having a weak middle school doesn’t help either.

[Anonymous]

So Eliot Hine gained a little over 100 students in 5 years after, what, a gleaming $50 million+ renovation? Big deal. Exceedingly poor value for taxpayers money.

Meanwhile, Latin Cooper, teaching out of warehouse with a minimum of natural light and no grass, gym or auditorium had 50 on its WL in May or last year. This year come May, they had at least 250 on their WL. I know because our WL # was in the 240s.

Figure it out DCPS. Incentivize most IB families to stay IB for schools already.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:No, DC is full of transplants and its not remotely clear that gentrifiers are generally unwelcome at schools. I think a lot of people in DC would probably prefer to go to their neighborhood DCPS over a charter school like Basis if DCPS could offer sufficient challenge and some of it is a complex mix of considerations like its more convenient, they really liked their DCPS elementary school, they’ve read material such as the Nikole Hannah-Jones article in the New York Times, they arent sure how they feel about charter schools now that charters are beloved by the far right and not so popular with mainstream liberals, etc.

NO adult with a brain in their head thinks this way. Are you a child, PP?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So Eliot Hine gained a little over 100 students in 5 years after, what, a gleaming $50 million+ renovation? Big deal. Exceedingly poor value for taxpayers money.

Meanwhile, Latin Cooper, teaching out of warehouse with a minimum of natural light and no grass, gym or auditorium had 50 on its WL in May or last year. This year come May, they had at least 250 on their WL. I know because our WL # was in the 240s.

Figure it out DCPS. Incentivize most IB families to stay IB for schools already.

Latin Cooper's draw isn't about Latin MS grades. It is about zero viable HS options.

[Anonymous]

On the funding question, do what the ward 3 schools do. Fund advanced academic offerings through the pta. Dc’s laws allow for this so work to make it happen. It is not like dcps central office is friendly to ward 3 at all. The expectations for parental financial contributions far exceed what hill PTAs expect.

Deal and JR aren’t good examples because they have a lot of historic momentum behind them. the school to watch will be MacArthur. If dcps is willing to support coursework that is attractive to their IB population that will be a good sign for what is possible on the hill.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:On the funding question, do what the ward 3 schools do. Fund advanced academic offerings through the pta. Dc’s laws allow for this so work to make it happen. It is not like dcps central office is friendly to ward 3 at all. The expectations for parental financial contributions far exceed what hill PTAs expect.

Deal and JR aren’t good examples because they have a lot of historic momentum behind them. the school to watch will be MacArthur. If dcps is willing to support coursework that is attractive to their IB population that will be a good sign for what is possible on the hill.

If Deal’s PTA were split between 3 middle schools like what happens on the Hill, Ward 3 would be in the sane mess we are in.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Many of us on the Hill would care less what the overall proficiency rate of a particular neighborhood middle school might be IF said program offered a full menu of well-taught, at-grade level classes for 6th-8th grades for science, math, social studies and English. Parents also want a full menu of above grade-level classes for 8th grade and foreign languages taught at appropriates levels for most students (with an opt out of policy for advanced language students receiving instruction outside of school).

With those academic offerings, supported by reasonable and transparent standards for admission to honors/intensified classes, IB parents would flock to those schools in short order. That's what would be "helpful." Anything less and most parents won't bite, indefinitely. Really no more to say.

I agree with most of this, but think the weird focus some posters have on opting out of foreign languages if they get outside instruction is bizarre. Schools have no obligation to accommodate that and most parents don't care.

Public schools have no obligation to force students who speak, read and write languages well into beginning languages classes either. That's what BASIS does, aggressively. Thankfully, DCPS doesn't In MoCo, Arlington and Fairfax, 6th-12th graders are given the option of placing out of required languages classes if they have the skills. Apparently, many suburban parents do care. Hint: advanced language skills are prized by colleges.

If colleges prize advanced language skills, then why not become advanced in multiple languages?? If your child already knows Spanish well enough to place out, then sign them up for Mandarin at Basis. Then when they apply for college, they’ll be advanced in Spanish and Mandarin. Wouldn’t colleges prize this even more??

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If the Hill middle schools improved, they woudl suddenly become overcrowded. People would stop trucking to faraway charters and Deal/Hardy. They would have to stop admitting OOB students. The net effect would be a much whiter and higher-income student body and the OOB kids would probably end up at worse schools (or maybe at okayish charters).

If they consolidated high-performing kids in one middle school, it would be so overcrowded that they would have to de-consolidate it after a few years. It's not a workable plan politically or logistically.

What can be done? Work on your elementary school's upper grade offering so that the middle schools of the city are receiving kids as well-prepared as possible. If you're at a feeder or attend a middle school, push for higher quality but with an understanding of the complex and sensitive politics and the budget constraints. This isn't an easy problem.

I appreciate this post, and the post a few prior with regards to actually thinking about funding. For those on here saying 'just fund it/build it and they will come' have probably not participated on a school LSAT, gone to budget townhalls, met with council members, or followed how school funding is allocated. Principals have very limited control on what they can/can't fund, and this year (and the next few) are going to be tough with budget cuts. The city as a whole is having to rethink it's budget with less people working downtown post COVID, and the extra $$ schools got due to COVID running out. There is also a new funding model which provides more funds to schools with higher special education numbers and higher at risk numbers which I think is a good thing. I would also argue that spending money on new facilities (like Jefferson and EH) is an important investment - shows the kids and families they are valued, and also makes sure they have schools not just with up to date facilities for new course offerings, but also that they have schools with the bare minimum like plumbing/toilets that work, roofs that don't leak, etc.
While funding and policy does not change overnight, enrollment can change quickly, which then impacts funding, staffing, etc. I just pulled up Eliot Hine data as an example (couldn't find it for this year) - and enrollment has grown significantly. I know many 5th grade families from the feeders (ourselves included) who did not lottery in 4th and will be at EH this fall, so I wouldn't be surprised if the enrollment continues to grow.
2016-2017 - 200 students
2020-2021 - 291 students
2021-2022 - 317 students
All that to say, I appreciate the attention to how complex this is.

Would be really great if there was more buy in to the local middle schools. I do think that there might be more buy in. I am worried about the weakening academics in some of the feeders and having a weak middle school doesn’t help either.

Which feeders have weakening academics? SWS maybe relative to demographics, but obviously still high performing relative to EH and also they send virtually no kids there. Watkins seems to be losing UMC/IB buy in, though ironically that could send more kids to SH. Test scores are still good for UMC kids that remain though, there’s just fewer of them. Non-UMC test scores also similar. Really just seems to be the demographics that are changing. LT, on the other hand, has improving IB buy in and thus overall test scores. Academics there seem solid with among the best ELA results for demographics in the city. Payne is also clearly on the upswing IB and thus test score wise. All the other seem largely unchanged in the last few years…

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:On the funding question, do what the ward 3 schools do. Fund advanced academic offerings through the pta. Dc’s laws allow for this so work to make it happen. It is not like dcps central office is friendly to ward 3 at all. The expectations for parental financial contributions far exceed what hill PTAs expect.

Deal and JR aren’t good examples because they have a lot of historic momentum behind them. the school to watch will be MacArthur. If dcps is willing to support coursework that is attractive to their IB population that will be a good sign for what is possible on the hill.

If Deal’s PTA were split between 3 middle schools like what happens on the Hill, Ward 3 would be in the sane mess we are in.

It’s actually even worse because the Cluster shares one PTO, so SH is part of Peabody and Watkins for Cluster purposes. I think it’s completely absurd and it would make me reluctant to contribute to the PTO at any of those schools without transparent accounting. And if transparent accounting proved parents were getting dollar in dollar out for their school (which I doubt), why combine the PTOs?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Many of us on the Hill would care less what the overall proficiency rate of a particular neighborhood middle school might be IF said program offered a full menu of well-taught, at-grade level classes for 6th-8th grades for science, math, social studies and English. Parents also want a full menu of above grade-level classes for 8th grade and foreign languages taught at appropriates levels for most students (with an opt out of policy for advanced language students receiving instruction outside of school).

With those academic offerings, supported by reasonable and transparent standards for admission to honors/intensified classes, IB parents would flock to those schools in short order. That's what would be "helpful." Anything less and most parents won't bite, indefinitely. Really no more to say.

I agree with most of this, but think the weird focus some posters have on opting out of foreign languages if they get outside instruction is bizarre. Schools have no obligation to accommodate that and most parents don't care.

Public schools have no obligation to force students who speak, read and write languages well into beginning languages classes either. That's what BASIS does, aggressively. Thankfully, DCPS doesn't In MoCo, Arlington and Fairfax, 6th-12th graders are given the option of placing out of required languages classes if they have the skills. Apparently, many suburban parents do care. Hint: advanced language skills are prized by colleges.

If colleges prize advanced language skills, then why not become advanced in multiple languages?? If your child already knows Spanish well enough to place out, then sign them up for Mandarin at Basis. Then when they apply for college, they’ll be advanced in Spanish and Mandarin. Wouldn’t colleges prize this even more??

You speak, read and write Chinese? Chinese is 3,000 characters for basic literacy. Study Spanish, with its difficult grammar, and Mandarin, coterminously as a kid/teen and speak, read and write both badly. CH isn't Switzerland, with several official languages, with at least two of them spoken and understood by almost all citizens. There's an ugly little secret about BASIS and Latin's average AP modern language scores. They aren't great because the curricula support far too little modern language study too late. BASIS forces kids who arrive proficient in a language to study it at a beginning level from 8th grade, or to start learning another language. DCPS is flexible, but doesn't take language instruction seriously. Their instruction isn't half as good as it sounds (no native speakers off the Spanish track, no push). Right, most parents don't care.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:On the funding question, do what the ward 3 schools do. Fund advanced academic offerings through the pta. Dc’s laws allow for this so work to make it happen. It is not like dcps central office is friendly to ward 3 at all. The expectations for parental financial contributions far exceed what hill PTAs expect.

Deal and JR aren’t good examples because they have a lot of historic momentum behind them. the school to watch will be MacArthur. If dcps is willing to support coursework that is attractive to their IB population that will be a good sign for what is possible on the hill.

If Deal’s PTA were split between 3 middle schools like what happens on the Hill, Ward 3 would be in the sane mess we are in.

This. Exactly right.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:On the funding question, do what the ward 3 schools do. Fund advanced academic offerings through the pta. Dc’s laws allow for this so work to make it happen. It is not like dcps central office is friendly to ward 3 at all. The expectations for parental financial contributions far exceed what hill PTAs expect.

Deal and JR aren’t good examples because they have a lot of historic momentum behind them. the school to watch will be MacArthur. If dcps is willing to support coursework that is attractive to their IB population that will be a good sign for what is possible on the hill.

If Deal’s PTA were split between 3 middle schools like what happens on the Hill, Ward 3 would be in the sane mess we are in.

It's almost by design. DCPS has been pretty hostile to most of the Hill, so it feels like they cracked the neighborhood into three MS to prevent a viable MS and HS path. Better if everyone is miserable than have a repeat of Ward 3.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So Eliot Hine gained a little over 100 students in 5 years after, what, a gleaming $50 million+ renovation? Big deal. Exceedingly poor value for taxpayers money.

Meanwhile, Latin Cooper, teaching out of warehouse with a minimum of natural light and no grass, gym or auditorium had 50 on its WL in May or last year. This year come May, they had at least 250 on their WL. I know because our WL # was in the 240s.

Figure it out DCPS. Incentivize most IB families to stay IB for schools already.

Latin Cooper's draw isn't about Latin MS grades. It is about zero viable HS options.

It's about both, it's even about skipping weak 5th grade academics in Hill elementary schools, especially seriously inadequate writing instruction.

[Anonymous]

Agree. We'd have been in trouble in 5th grade without a good English tutor and Mathnasium, although our kid's last couple dcps report cards were close to perfect. If we'd got a spot at one of the Latins or BASIS we'd have left, although we're planning for private middle school.