Why do selective schools market?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Yeah, we got one from Yale too. Threw it into the garbage.

This is the logical approach to receiving mass-market advertising for a product you are not interested in.

Huge difference between receiving a Domino's mailer and one from Yale. Anyone can purchase Domino's.

And anyone can apply to Yale.

Not the equivalent.

Sigh. Yes it is.

The letter is designed to get people to apply. It is sent to prospective applicants. To get them to apply.

Let me ask you - how should colleges market themselves, then? And don't say "they don't have to!" because that flies in the face of all logic and everything you learn day 1 in a high school business class. If you can't answer this simple question:

How should they market to get the widest class of applicants that is different from how they do it now?

LOL. No. Have you ever ordered pizza then had your order declined because you were smart enough? Of course not. Yale marketing is like Domino's sending mailers than denying 95% of orders with no explanation.

You didn't answer the question, even though it was in bold.

How should they market to get the widest class of applicants that is different from how they do it now?

You're making an assumption. They don't need a wider class of applicants if they're already filling.

But they believe they do. Their admissions mission is not to "fill seats". It is to build the best possible class they can.

By your logic, business should not advertise when they are hiring, they should just fill the job with whoever's resume gets sent in.

After all, they have more applicants than they can hire...

NP. Your analogy doesn't quite make sense. First, businesses are not ranked like colleges are by USNWR and other rankings. Second, a specific position at a company is not well known by many applicants whereas any student can easily look up what colleges specifically want and offer.

PP is trying REALLY hard to justify this unethical marketing.

And you still have provided no evidence that it is "unethical" or motivated by unethical means.

Because it isn't.

And yes the analogy is perfect, and the poster does not even know that USNWR doesn't use acceptance rate in rankings. And the idea that people don't know what jobs are at companies is preposterous.

This is such a red herring. Are you the same person who claimed that acceptance rates aren’t reported to USNWR? Because they are. USNWR does provide a handy list of colleges ranked by acceptance rate. So, even if they don’t use that stat for their overall rankings, it is a statistic that everyone who cares about such things knows and refers to.

Further, the appropriate analogy would be a company sending a letter asking you *specifically* to apply for a job, when they know they’re not going to hire you, but because they have already identified someone else who they want to hire and they need to show HR that they looked at multiple applicants. And, yes, that happens all the time and is also unethical.

I strongly disagree. Acceptance rate is not. “reported “to US news. It is simply in the common data set they use because that’s what all the universities that do the common dataset put the data in for. It’s there for you as well as everyone else to use to judge your own likelihood of being admitted, since you are the only one that knows your statistics before you apply.

I’m going to say that again: you are the only one who knows your statistics before you apply.

Usnwr does not use acceptance rate in their ranking calculation. You know full well those posts imply that colleges did this for their rankings so you are being dishonest.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’ve found it interesting to read the material sent to my DS. It gives me a sense of what the main priorities of the campus are.

Waste of time and energy if they stand no chance of being admitted.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yeah, we got one from Yale too. Threw it into the garbage.

This is the logical approach to receiving mass-market advertising for a product you are not interested in.

Huge difference between receiving a Domino's mailer and one from Yale. Anyone can purchase Domino's.

And anyone can apply to Yale.

Not the equivalent.

Sigh. Yes it is.

The letter is designed to get people to apply. It is sent to prospective applicants. To get them to apply.

Let me ask you - how should colleges market themselves, then? And don't say "they don't have to!" because that flies in the face of all logic and everything you learn day 1 in a high school business class. If you can't answer this simple question:

How should they market to get the widest class of applicants that is different from how they do it now?

LOL. No. Have you ever ordered pizza then had your order declined because you were smart enough? Of course not. Yale marketing is like Domino's sending mailers than denying 95% of orders with no explanation.

You didn't answer the question, even though it was in bold.

How should they market to get the widest class of applicants that is different from how they do it now?

You're making an assumption. They don't need a wider class of applicants if they're already filling.

But they believe they do. Their admissions mission is not to "fill seats". It is to build the best possible class they can.

By your logic, business should not advertise when they are hiring, they should just fill the job with whoever's resume gets sent in.

After all, they have more applicants than they can hire...

NP. Your analogy doesn't quite make sense. First, businesses are not ranked like colleges are by USNWR and other rankings. Second, a specific position at a company is not well known by many applicants whereas any student can easily look up what colleges specifically want and offer.

PP is trying REALLY hard to justify this unethical marketing.

And you still have provided no evidence that it is "unethical" or motivated by unethical means.

Because it isn't.

And yes the analogy is perfect, and the poster does not even know that USNWR doesn't use acceptance rate in rankings. And the idea that people don't know what jobs are at companies is preposterous.

This is such a red herring. Are you the same person who claimed that acceptance rates aren’t reported to USNWR? Because they are. USNWR does provide a handy list of colleges ranked by acceptance rate. So, even if they don’t use that stat for their overall rankings, it is a statistic that everyone who cares about such things knows and refers to.

Further, the appropriate analogy would be a company sending a letter asking you *specifically* to apply for a job, when they know they’re not going to hire you, but because they have already identified someone else who they want to hire and they need to show HR that they looked at multiple applicants. And, yes, that happens all the time and is also unethical.

I strongly disagree. Acceptance rate is not. “reported “to US news. It is simply in the common data set they use because that’s what all the universities that do the common dataset put the data in for. It’s there for you as well as everyone else to use to judge your own likelihood of being admitted, since you are the only one that knows your statistics before you apply.

I’m going to say that again: you are the only one who knows your statistics before you apply.

Usnwr does not use acceptance rate in their ranking calculation. You know full well those posts imply that colleges did this for their rankings so you are being dishonest.

No the PP, but it acceptance rates and yield are important for colleges, not because of the USWNR rankings. They are important because the administration presents an annual report to the trustees. It includes the financial statements, and also some factoids and stats that they can brag about. It is very common for selective schools to present acceptance rates and yield, especially if they are very good, in these reports. Those stats then often get cherry picked in communications to donors and alums for engagement or campaigns.

Schools will also compensate the Dir. of Admission with large bonuses that are based on stats and those stats are not necessarily used by USNWR. Acceptance rate, yield, number of applications or application revenue are common metrics used for bonuses.

So they are important for some schools. The prior Dir. of Admissions of Georgetown and UVA did a joint interview with the WaPo many years ago, criticzing the obsession over yield and acceptance rates since they were not part of the rankings, noting the schools alums and administrations still care about them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yeah, we got one from Yale too. Threw it into the garbage.

This is the logical approach to receiving mass-market advertising for a product you are not interested in.

Huge difference between receiving a Domino's mailer and one from Yale. Anyone can purchase Domino's.

And anyone can apply to Yale.

Not the equivalent.

Sigh. Yes it is.

The letter is designed to get people to apply. It is sent to prospective applicants. To get them to apply.

Let me ask you - how should colleges market themselves, then? And don't say "they don't have to!" because that flies in the face of all logic and everything you learn day 1 in a high school business class. If you can't answer this simple question:

How should they market to get the widest class of applicants that is different from how they do it now?

LOL. No. Have you ever ordered pizza then had your order declined because you were smart enough? Of course not. Yale marketing is like Domino's sending mailers than denying 95% of orders with no explanation.

You didn't answer the question, even though it was in bold.

How should they market to get the widest class of applicants that is different from how they do it now?

You're making an assumption. They don't need a wider class of applicants if they're already filling.

But they believe they do. Their admissions mission is not to "fill seats". It is to build the best possible class they can.

By your logic, business should not advertise when they are hiring, they should just fill the job with whoever's resume gets sent in.

After all, they have more applicants than they can hire...

NP. Your analogy doesn't quite make sense. First, businesses are not ranked like colleges are by USNWR and other rankings. Second, a specific position at a company is not well known by many applicants whereas any student can easily look up what colleges specifically want and offer.

PP is trying REALLY hard to justify this unethical marketing.

And you still have provided no evidence that it is "unethical" or motivated by unethical means.

Because it isn't.

And yes the analogy is perfect, and the poster does not even know that USNWR doesn't use acceptance rate in rankings. And the idea that people don't know what jobs are at companies is preposterous.

This is such a red herring. Are you the same person who claimed that acceptance rates aren’t reported to USNWR? Because they are. USNWR does provide a handy list of colleges ranked by acceptance rate. So, even if they don’t use that stat for their overall rankings, it is a statistic that everyone who cares about such things knows and refers to.

Further, the appropriate analogy would be a company sending a letter asking you *specifically* to apply for a job, when they know they’re not going to hire you, but because they have already identified someone else who they want to hire and they need to show HR that they looked at multiple applicants. And, yes, that happens all the time and is also unethical.

I strongly disagree. Acceptance rate is not. “reported “to US news. It is simply in the common data set they use because that’s what all the universities that do the common dataset put the data in for. It’s there for you as well as everyone else to use to judge your own likelihood of being admitted, since you are the only one that knows your statistics before you apply.

I’m going to say that again: you are the only one who knows your statistics before you apply.

Usnwr does not use acceptance rate in their ranking calculation. You know full well those posts imply that colleges did this for their rankings so you are being dishonest.

No the PP, but it acceptance rates and yield are important for colleges, not because of the USWNR rankings. They are important because the administration presents an annual report to the trustees. It includes the financial statements, and also some factoids and stats that they can brag about. It is very common for selective schools to present acceptance rates and yield, especially if they are very good, in these reports. Those stats then often get cherry picked in communications to donors and alums for engagement or campaigns.

Schools will also compensate the Dir. of Admission with large bonuses that are based on stats and those stats are not necessarily used by USNWR. Acceptance rate, yield, number of applications or application revenue are common metrics used for bonuses.

So they are important for some schools. The prior Dir. of Admissions of Georgetown and UVA did a joint interview with the WaPo many years ago, criticzing the obsession over yield and acceptance rates since they were not part of the rankings, noting the schools alums and administrations still care about them.

That’s all fine, but again the objection was explicitly to claims they did it for the USNWR rankings.