MCPS High School 7:45am for teens is to early

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wish parents could attend period 1 at MCPS high schools for 1 week.
They would change their tune quickly.
I’m a HS teacher and don’t mind the early start as I am an early riser.
But I feel terrible for my students. First period is so different from my other classes. Half the students arrive late. They trickle in all throughout period 1.
The remaining kids are either half or fully asleep. Most states have moved high school start times to 8 am or later but MCPS is not progressive in this regard

+100. Another HS teacher here. I teach on-level physics and chemistry at a very diverse school and I often only have 4 students out of 30 at the start of period 1. By the end of period 1, maybe we are at 15-20 students max out of 30. Period 1 starting at 7.45 am does not work. It is a wasted period.

What has changed, other than the internet and social media, since the 1990s? My high school started at 7:45. With the exceptions of late busses, trains, or crazy traffic, everyone was there at 7:45. And no, half the class wasn’t asleep in 1st period. So why are 2023 teens unable to do this but 1990s/2000s teens were?

Well, since the 1990s, kids have been getting less healthy, more obese, depressed, and anxious - and that was before social media. It's not about whether they are able to get up, but whether that is best for their health and learning.

And to the person who said that they need to get ready for the real work world, when they are in the real world, they won't be teens anymore, meaning that their sleep needs will be different.

Bussing logistics and money are reasons why start times haven't changed. However, if you are against changing for any other reason, you are ignoring unanimous agreement from experts that later start times are healthier.

I don't live in Montgomery County, but in my county, the high school start time doesn't even tell the full story of how early teens are forced to get up. My kid has a 7:25 a.m. start time, which required him to be at the bus stop at 6:25. The bus got them to school between 6:50 and 7:00 a.m. so that the driver could leave to pick up middle school kids who had a 7:40 start time. Basically, kids have wasted time spent milling about outside in the earning morning simply to save money on buses. They aren't working, exercising, or learning - just killing time before school and spending their days exhausted.

Or, you could just drive your kids to school. Seems simple enough to me. Surely you could drive your kid.. or are you the lazy one?

Your kids may not be doing much but some of our kids are. My kids have activities every day right after school so a later start time would be an issue with getting them to activities on time, then homework, shower, dinner and bed. Just because you have an issue in your home you refuse to fix, does not mean the rest of us should cater to you.

Really, drive your kid.

Why are you even posting here if it has no impact on your child if they aren't MCPS? The issue isn't the same here as what you are saying. Kids aren't going to school early.

Activities could shift to before school. Those are optional. School is not and should be at a time that prioritizes the well-being of students.

Activities are largely run by teachers, often those who have children of their own. What are they going to do with their babies, preschoolers, and ES kids at 4:30 AM?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maybe I should tell my boss that 8am is too early, that I need more sleep and the office should open at 9:30 instead, for everybody's health.

1. Teenagers are not adults. This has been stated over and over again in this thread, in case you needed someone to point that out.

2. School is not a job. I don’t know if this has been stated elsewhere, but another point that should be obvious.

Maybe if you had been allowed to sleep in a little longer in high school you’d be smarter.

I consider school my kid's job. If they are tired, they go to bed earlier. Simple. Stop raising spoiled entitled kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wish parents could attend period 1 at MCPS high schools for 1 week.
They would change their tune quickly.
I’m a HS teacher and don’t mind the early start as I am an early riser.
But I feel terrible for my students. First period is so different from my other classes. Half the students arrive late. They trickle in all throughout period 1.
The remaining kids are either half or fully asleep. Most states have moved high school start times to 8 am or later but MCPS is not progressive in this regard

+100. Another HS teacher here. I teach on-level physics and chemistry at a very diverse school and I often only have 4 students out of 30 at the start of period 1. By the end of period 1, maybe we are at 15-20 students max out of 30. Period 1 starting at 7.45 am does not work. It is a wasted period.

What has changed, other than the internet and social media, since the 1990s? My high school started at 7:45. With the exceptions of late busses, trains, or crazy traffic, everyone was there at 7:45. And no, half the class wasn’t asleep in 1st period. So why are 2023 teens unable to do this but 1990s/2000s teens were?

Well, since the 1990s, kids have been getting less healthy, more obese, depressed, and anxious - and that was before social media. It's not about whether they are able to get up, but whether that is best for their health and learning.

And to the person who said that they need to get ready for the real work world, when they are in the real world, they won't be teens anymore, meaning that their sleep needs will be different.

Bussing logistics and money are reasons why start times haven't changed. However, if you are against changing for any other reason, you are ignoring unanimous agreement from experts that later start times are healthier.

I don't live in Montgomery County, but in my county, the high school start time doesn't even tell the full story of how early teens are forced to get up. My kid has a 7:25 a.m. start time, which required him to be at the bus stop at 6:25. The bus got them to school between 6:50 and 7:00 a.m. so that the driver could leave to pick up middle school kids who had a 7:40 start time. Basically, kids have wasted time spent milling about outside in the earning morning simply to save money on buses. They aren't working, exercising, or learning - just killing time before school and spending their days exhausted.

Or, you could just drive your kids to school. Seems simple enough to me. Surely you could drive your kid.. or are you the lazy one?

Your kids may not be doing much but some of our kids are. My kids have activities every day right after school so a later start time would be an issue with getting them to activities on time, then homework, shower, dinner and bed. Just because you have an issue in your home you refuse to fix, does not mean the rest of us should cater to you.

Really, drive your kid.

Why are you even posting here if it has no impact on your child if they aren't MCPS? The issue isn't the same here as what you are saying. Kids aren't going to school early.

Activities could shift to before school. Those are optional. School is not and should be at a time that prioritizes the well-being of students.

Activities are largely run by teachers, often those who have children of their own. What are they going to do with their babies, preschoolers, and ES kids at 4:30 AM?

If activities are before school, that creates the same issue and what would happen with bussing? The same parents who refuse to drive their kids to school now aren't going to do it then either.

And, my kids are in private activities so it has nothing to do with MCPS or the teachers. We drive them immediately after school. If they do the morning activity it is at 4:30 AM. That's a no for us for now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This start time is pretty typical everywhere. DC is the anomaly, and I love it for my kids.

Loudoun also has a reversed schedule. Our local highschool starts at 9:30am. The local elementary bus picks up the kids at 6:30am (which is ridiculous imo) and the school day (elem) starts at 7:15am.

The highschoolers don't get out of school until close to 4:30pm (4:20ish), then don't get home until close to 5:00pm. From what I've heard, those that do sports/activities/etc. and are academically motivated wind up going to bed after midnight by the time they fit in all of their commitments and homework. So the lack of sleep can be the same as those with an early schedule, just shifted.

No, their body clock dictates that around 11 pm is aligned with when they get tired to go to sleep. If you send a teen to bed at 9, they’ll just lie awake.

That’s just not true. My child has an early start time at 7:20 (elsewhere), and she goes to bed daily at 9/9:30. The body does indeed adjust.

In high school? Really?

I have one high school kid who goes to bed early too (almost always by 9). She has an 8:45 a.m. start time at a private school, which means she's able to sleep until 7 or 7:30 am. and get ready for the day. She is so much happier this way, compared to how she was in public middle school where she had to be on the bus before 7:30. My other high school student doesn't go to bed that early, because he can't fall asleep until after 10.

The reality is that it's not easy for high school students to be in bed by 9 pm. Both kids have done activities (scouts, sports) and had jobs that keep them out until past 9 pm. They can't walk in the house, jump into bed, and immediately fall asleep.

That's on you for the schedule. I don't allow my kids to work during the school year, summers only. If jobs keep them out till 9 PM then they have homework that's too much.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This start time is pretty typical everywhere. DC is the anomaly, and I love it for my kids.

Loudoun also has a reversed schedule. Our local highschool starts at 9:30am. The local elementary bus picks up the kids at 6:30am (which is ridiculous imo) and the school day (elem) starts at 7:15am.

The highschoolers don't get out of school until close to 4:30pm (4:20ish), then don't get home until close to 5:00pm. From what I've heard, those that do sports/activities/etc. and are academically motivated wind up going to bed after midnight by the time they fit in all of their commitments and homework. So the lack of sleep can be the same as those with an early schedule, just shifted.

No, their body clock dictates that around 11 pm is aligned with when they get tired to go to sleep. If you send a teen to bed at 9, they’ll just lie awake.

That’s just not true. My child has an early start time at 7:20 (elsewhere), and she goes to bed daily at 9/9:30. The body does indeed adjust.

In high school? Really?

I have one high school kid who goes to bed early too (almost always by 9). She has an 8:45 a.m. start time at a private school, which means she's able to sleep until 7 or 7:30 am. and get ready for the day. She is so much happier this way, compared to how she was in public middle school where she had to be on the bus before 7:30. My other high school student doesn't go to bed that early, because he can't fall asleep until after 10.

The reality is that it's not easy for high school students to be in bed by 9 pm. Both kids have done activities (scouts, sports) and had jobs that keep them out until past 9 pm. They can't walk in the house, jump into bed, and immediately fall asleep.

Yes children are very adaptable and resilient.

What? The point is that they aren't. It isn't a matter of putting a 17 year old to bed at 9 p.m. They need more sleep and naturally fall asleep later.

If they are tired enough, they will sleep.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This start time is pretty typical everywhere. DC is the anomaly, and I love it for my kids.

Loudoun also has a reversed schedule. Our local highschool starts at 9:30am. The local elementary bus picks up the kids at 6:30am (which is ridiculous imo) and the school day (elem) starts at 7:15am.

The highschoolers don't get out of school until close to 4:30pm (4:20ish), then don't get home until close to 5:00pm. From what I've heard, those that do sports/activities/etc. and are academically motivated wind up going to bed after midnight by the time they fit in all of their commitments and homework. So the lack of sleep can be the same as those with an early schedule, just shifted.

No, their body clock dictates that around 11 pm is aligned with when they get tired to go to sleep. If you send a teen to bed at 9, they’ll just lie awake.

That’s just not true. My child has an early start time at 7:20 (elsewhere), and she goes to bed daily at 9/9:30. The body does indeed adjust.

In high school? Really?

I have one high school kid who goes to bed early too (almost always by 9). She has an 8:45 a.m. start time at a private school, which means she's able to sleep until 7 or 7:30 am. and get ready for the day. She is so much happier this way, compared to how she was in public middle school where she had to be on the bus before 7:30. My other high school student doesn't go to bed that early, because he can't fall asleep until after 10.

The reality is that it's not easy for high school students to be in bed by 9 pm. Both kids have done activities (scouts, sports) and had jobs that keep them out until past 9 pm. They can't walk in the house, jump into bed, and immediately fall asleep.

Yes children are very adaptable and resilient.

What? The point is that they aren't. It isn't a matter of putting a 17 year old to bed at 9 p.m. They need more sleep and naturally fall asleep later.

If they are tired enough, they will sleep.

How many kids do you have? How old? What time do they go to bed, and do they have any friend at all? Very curious.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This start time is pretty typical everywhere. DC is the anomaly, and I love it for my kids.

Loudoun also has a reversed schedule. Our local highschool starts at 9:30am. The local elementary bus picks up the kids at 6:30am (which is ridiculous imo) and the school day (elem) starts at 7:15am.

The highschoolers don't get out of school until close to 4:30pm (4:20ish), then don't get home until close to 5:00pm. From what I've heard, those that do sports/activities/etc. and are academically motivated wind up going to bed after midnight by the time they fit in all of their commitments and homework. So the lack of sleep can be the same as those with an early schedule, just shifted.

No, their body clock dictates that around 11 pm is aligned with when they get tired to go to sleep. If you send a teen to bed at 9, they’ll just lie awake.

That’s just not true. My child has an early start time at 7:20 (elsewhere), and she goes to bed daily at 9/9:30. The body does indeed adjust.

In high school? Really?

I have one high school kid who goes to bed early too (almost always by 9). She has an 8:45 a.m. start time at a private school, which means she's able to sleep until 7 or 7:30 am. and get ready for the day. She is so much happier this way, compared to how she was in public middle school where she had to be on the bus before 7:30. My other high school student doesn't go to bed that early, because he can't fall asleep until after 10.

The reality is that it's not easy for high school students to be in bed by 9 pm. Both kids have done activities (scouts, sports) and had jobs that keep them out until past 9 pm. They can't walk in the house, jump into bed, and immediately fall asleep.

That's on you for the schedule. I don't allow my kids to work during the school year, summers only. If jobs keep them out till 9 PM then they have homework that's too much.

Only working during the summer is a luxury that not all MCPS students enjoy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

If activities are before school, that creates the same issue and what would happen with bussing? The same parents who refuse to drive their kids to school now aren't going to do it then either.

And, my kids are in private activities so it has nothing to do with MCPS or the teachers. We drive them immediately after school. If they do the morning activity it is at 4:30 AM. That's a no for us for now.

Parents who drive their kids to school should be GRATEFUL to the parents "who refuse to drive their kids to school." Imagine 1,500 cars in the drop-off line every morning.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

If they are tired enough, they will sleep.

Yes, they will - in their first period classes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This start time is pretty typical everywhere. DC is the anomaly, and I love it for my kids.

Loudoun also has a reversed schedule. Our local highschool starts at 9:30am. The local elementary bus picks up the kids at 6:30am (which is ridiculous imo) and the school day (elem) starts at 7:15am.

The highschoolers don't get out of school until close to 4:30pm (4:20ish), then don't get home until close to 5:00pm. From what I've heard, those that do sports/activities/etc. and are academically motivated wind up going to bed after midnight by the time they fit in all of their commitments and homework. So the lack of sleep can be the same as those with an early schedule, just shifted.

No, their body clock dictates that around 11 pm is aligned with when they get tired to go to sleep. If you send a teen to bed at 9, they’ll just lie awake.

That’s just not true. My child has an early start time at 7:20 (elsewhere), and she goes to bed daily at 9/9:30. The body does indeed adjust.

In high school? Really?

I have one high school kid who goes to bed early too (almost always by 9). She has an 8:45 a.m. start time at a private school, which means she's able to sleep until 7 or 7:30 am. and get ready for the day. She is so much happier this way, compared to how she was in public middle school where she had to be on the bus before 7:30. My other high school student doesn't go to bed that early, because he can't fall asleep until after 10.

The reality is that it's not easy for high school students to be in bed by 9 pm. Both kids have done activities (scouts, sports) and had jobs that keep them out until past 9 pm. They can't walk in the house, jump into bed, and immediately fall asleep.

Yes children are very adaptable and resilient.

What? The point is that they aren't. It isn't a matter of putting a 17 year old to bed at 9 p.m. They need more sleep and naturally fall asleep later.

If they are tired enough, they will sleep.

How many kids do you have? How old? What time do they go to bed, and do they have any friend at all? Very curious.

DP. These are separate things. My teens are asleep at 19 because their internal clocks are set that way and they have close friend circles. I’ve also taught a fair numbers of loners who are awake at 1 AM online.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

If activities are before school, that creates the same issue and what would happen with bussing? The same parents who refuse to drive their kids to school now aren't going to do it then either.

And, my kids are in private activities so it has nothing to do with MCPS or the teachers. We drive them immediately after school. If they do the morning activity it is at 4:30 AM. That's a no for us for now.

Parents who drive their kids to school should be GRATEFUL to the parents "who refuse to drive their kids to school." Imagine 1,500 cars in the drop-off line every morning.

Or people can do what we do and drop DS off a few blocks from Blair.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This start time is pretty typical everywhere. DC is the anomaly, and I love it for my kids.

Loudoun also has a reversed schedule. Our local highschool starts at 9:30am. The local elementary bus picks up the kids at 6:30am (which is ridiculous imo) and the school day (elem) starts at 7:15am.

The highschoolers don't get out of school until close to 4:30pm (4:20ish), then don't get home until close to 5:00pm. From what I've heard, those that do sports/activities/etc. and are academically motivated wind up going to bed after midnight by the time they fit in all of their commitments and homework. So the lack of sleep can be the same as those with an early schedule, just shifted.

No, their body clock dictates that around 11 pm is aligned with when they get tired to go to sleep. If you send a teen to bed at 9, they’ll just lie awake.

That’s just not true. My child has an early start time at 7:20 (elsewhere), and she goes to bed daily at 9/9:30. The body does indeed adjust.

In high school? Really?

I have one high school kid who goes to bed early too (almost always by 9). She has an 8:45 a.m. start time at a private school, which means she's able to sleep until 7 or 7:30 am. and get ready for the day. She is so much happier this way, compared to how she was in public middle school where she had to be on the bus before 7:30. My other high school student doesn't go to bed that early, because he can't fall asleep until after 10.

The reality is that it's not easy for high school students to be in bed by 9 pm. Both kids have done activities (scouts, sports) and had jobs that keep them out until past 9 pm. They can't walk in the house, jump into bed, and immediately fall asleep.

Yes children are very adaptable and resilient.

What? The point is that they aren't. It isn't a matter of putting a 17 year old to bed at 9 p.m. They need more sleep and naturally fall asleep later.

If they are tired enough, they will sleep.

How many kids do you have? How old? What time do they go to bed, and do they have any friend at all? Very curious.

DP. These are separate things. My teens are asleep at 19 because their internal clocks are set that way and they have close friend circles. I’ve also taught a fair numbers of loners who are awake at 1 AM online.

What is 19? Is that 9? You have teens who are asleep at 9 every night?

I asked the question because the PP seems to think that all high school kids should be asleep by 9 and I'm saying that's pretty much impossible.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

If activities are before school, that creates the same issue and what would happen with bussing? The same parents who refuse to drive their kids to school now aren't going to do it then either.

And, my kids are in private activities so it has nothing to do with MCPS or the teachers. We drive them immediately after school. If they do the morning activity it is at 4:30 AM. That's a no for us for now.

Parents who drive their kids to school should be GRATEFUL to the parents "who refuse to drive their kids to school." Imagine 1,500 cars in the drop-off line every morning.

Or people can do what we do and drop DS off a few blocks from Blair.

Imagine 2500 cars dropping kids off (& hitting kids who just got dropped off) in the Blair area every morning...

[Anonymous]

NYCPS ALL start at 8AM or earlier. No school bus transportation is provided for students in junior high or high school. Students must take free public transportation to get to school. Some kids go to schools located in other boroughs and face 90 minute commutes each way where they take the subway, bus, and even the SI Ferry.

Please parent your kids and take away their cell phones and computer access by 10PM every night so they can wake up at a reasonable hour and get to school! When does it stop? Are you also going to lobby colleges to start all classes after 10AM to accommodate your snowflake’s preferences? Or maybe you’ll call their employers to let them start work later than everyone else?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:NYCPS ALL start at 8AM or earlier. No school bus transportation is provided for students in junior high or high school. Students must take free public transportation to get to school. Some kids go to schools located in other boroughs and face 90 minute commutes each way where they take the subway, bus, and even the SI Ferry.

Please parent your kids and take away their cell phones and computer access by 10PM every night so they can wake up at a reasonable hour and get to school! When does it stop? Are you also going to lobby colleges to start all classes after 10AM to accommodate your snowflake’s preferences? Or maybe you’ll call their employers to let them start work later than everyone else?

Have you looked at college-class start times recently, and by "recently", I mean "in the last 40 years"? I knew a tenured professor (in the days when there used to be tenured professors) who would deliberately schedule 8 am classes to reduce enrollment to a minimum.