Race in college admissions is back in front of the Supreme Court Oral Argument on Oct. 31 (Monday)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So if a kid mentions their race or references it in an essay, what is the "fair admission" guy saying? That AOs can't use the essay?

That was one of the questions asked by (I think) Justice Jackson. There was no direct answer.

Eventually agreed that it is probably ok in that context, since an Asian student could also reference in their essay eg. discrimination that they may also have faced growing up.

I heard Jackson ask whether if you have 2 kids, one whose family has lived in NC for 5 generations and gone to UNC for 5 generations, and one whose family has lived in NC for 5 generations and could not go to UNC for 5 generations because of slavery, could they each say it was important to them to go to UNC for those reasons and could UNC consider each of those stories as factors and the plaintiffs' lawyer basically said UNC could consider the first and not the second (though he did say UNC could refuse to consider the first, and could consider first gen or low SES students).

Good example. Lets say that you have 2 kids. Once the child of African American physicians, the other the child of SWVA coal miners. Currently the African American child gets the admissions bump. Maybe looking at SES is a better way to give children of less parents a leg up than race because

The child of coal miners is likely first generation, so that applicant gets a bump for that.

so it comes down to whether the school gives more of a bump for first gen or URM? Based on Harvard discovery, we know how big of a bump their was for African American students, how big was the bump for white first gen?

Harvard is one of the most selective schools in the country. Safe to say VERY few colleges do things like they do.

The UNC process probably doesn't look like the majority of admissions processes, either, since they are so incredibly selective.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So if a kid mentions their race or references it in an essay, what is the "fair admission" guy saying? That AOs can't use the essay?

That was one of the questions asked by (I think) Justice Jackson. There was no direct answer.

Eventually agreed that it is probably ok in that context, since an Asian student could also reference in their essay eg. discrimination that they may also have faced growing up.

I heard Jackson ask whether if you have 2 kids, one whose family has lived in NC for 5 generations and gone to UNC for 5 generations, and one whose family has lived in NC for 5 generations and could not go to UNC for 5 generations because of slavery, could they each say it was important to them to go to UNC for those reasons and could UNC consider each of those stories as factors and the plaintiffs' lawyer basically said UNC could consider the first and not the second (though he did say UNC could refuse to consider the first, and could consider first gen or low SES students).

Good example. Lets say that you have 2 kids. Once the child of African American physicians, the other the child of SWVA coal miners. Currently the African American child gets the admissions bump. Maybe looking at SES is a better way to give children of less parents a leg up than race because

Wouldn't the 2nd get a bump, too? Possibly 1st gen, geographic diversity, SES diversity, underprivileged area.

[Anonymous]

It's quite discomfiting to see the justices I usually agree (Kagan/Sotomayor) with peddling such specious arguments. Ideology rules, I suppose.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So if a kid mentions their race or references it in an essay, what is the "fair admission" guy saying? That AOs can't use the essay?

That was one of the questions asked by (I think) Justice Jackson. There was no direct answer.

Eventually agreed that it is probably ok in that context, since an Asian student could also reference in their essay eg. discrimination that they may also have faced growing up.

I heard Jackson ask whether if you have 2 kids, one whose family has lived in NC for 5 generations and gone to UNC for 5 generations, and one whose family has lived in NC for 5 generations and could not go to UNC for 5 generations because of slavery, could they each say it was important to them to go to UNC for those reasons and could UNC consider each of those stories as factors and the plaintiffs' lawyer basically said UNC could consider the first and not the second (though he did say UNC could refuse to consider the first, and could consider first gen or low SES students).

Good example. Lets say that you have 2 kids. Once the child of African American physicians, the other the child of SWVA coal miners. Currently the African American child gets the admissions bump. Maybe looking at SES is a better way to give children of less parents a leg up than race because

The child of coal miners is likely first generation, so that applicant gets a bump for that.

so it comes down to whether the school gives more of a bump for first gen or URM? Based on Harvard discovery, we know how big of a bump their was for African American students, how big was the bump for white first gen?

Harvard is one of the most selective schools in the country. Safe to say VERY few colleges do things like they do.

The UNC process probably doesn't look like the majority of admissions processes, either, since they are so incredibly selective.

Harvard and UNC are parties to this case. The plaintiffs were very careful when they selected schools to go after. Their standards and processes being different aren't going to help other less selective schools if Roberts gets to write to opinion that he's wanted to for the past 15 years, race will be an illegal factor to consider in admissions

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So if a kid mentions their race or references it in an essay, what is the "fair admission" guy saying? That AOs can't use the essay?

That was one of the questions asked by (I think) Justice Jackson. There was no direct answer.

Eventually agreed that it is probably ok in that context, since an Asian student could also reference in their essay eg. discrimination that they may also have faced growing up.

I heard Jackson ask whether if you have 2 kids, one whose family has lived in NC for 5 generations and gone to UNC for 5 generations, and one whose family has lived in NC for 5 generations and could not go to UNC for 5 generations because of slavery, could they each say it was important to them to go to UNC for those reasons and could UNC consider each of those stories as factors and the plaintiffs' lawyer basically said UNC could consider the first and not the second (though he did say UNC could refuse to consider the first, and could consider first gen or low SES students).

Good example. Lets say that you have 2 kids. Once the child of African American physicians, the other the child of SWVA coal miners. Currently the African American child gets the admissions bump. Maybe looking at SES is a better way to give children of less parents a leg up than race because

Wouldn't the 2nd get a bump, too? Possibly 1st gen, geographic diversity, SES diversity, underprivileged area.

because the race bump is bigger and there are only so many seats to go around

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It's quite discomfiting to see the justices I usually agree (Kagan/Sotomayor) with peddling such specious arguments. Ideology rules, I suppose.

Asking questions doesn't mean they're peddling any arguments.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So if a kid mentions their race or references it in an essay, what is the "fair admission" guy saying? That AOs can't use the essay?

That was one of the questions asked by (I think) Justice Jackson. There was no direct answer.

Eventually agreed that it is probably ok in that context, since an Asian student could also reference in their essay eg. discrimination that they may also have faced growing up.

I heard Jackson ask whether if you have 2 kids, one whose family has lived in NC for 5 generations and gone to UNC for 5 generations, and one whose family has lived in NC for 5 generations and could not go to UNC for 5 generations because of slavery, could they each say it was important to them to go to UNC for those reasons and could UNC consider each of those stories as factors and the plaintiffs' lawyer basically said UNC could consider the first and not the second (though he did say UNC could refuse to consider the first, and could consider first gen or low SES students).

It sounds so stpuid a kid born in 2023 is affected by the slavery of his/her slave ancestors.

Yes, stupid and very sad that this is true.

How is the kid affected by slavery today?

Seriously? You should do some googling about racism and how people are affected by it on a generational basis. I’m surprised you’ve never encountered information about why this is so.

+100 such an ignorant statement! An example of why the "affect" persists. People who think there's nothing wrong with societal "institutions" as currently constructed because it's set up to be their "applecart" and they (consciously or not) believe any changes may upset it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So if a kid mentions their race or references it in an essay, what is the "fair admission" guy saying? That AOs can't use the essay?

That was one of the questions asked by (I think) Justice Jackson. There was no direct answer.

Eventually agreed that it is probably ok in that context, since an Asian student could also reference in their essay eg. discrimination that they may also have faced growing up.

I heard Jackson ask whether if you have 2 kids, one whose family has lived in NC for 5 generations and gone to UNC for 5 generations, and one whose family has lived in NC for 5 generations and could not go to UNC for 5 generations because of slavery, could they each say it was important to them to go to UNC for those reasons and could UNC consider each of those stories as factors and the plaintiffs' lawyer basically said UNC could consider the first and not the second (though he did say UNC could refuse to consider the first, and could consider first gen or low SES students).

Good example. Lets say that you have 2 kids. Once the child of African American physicians, the other the child of SWVA coal miners. Currently the African American child gets the admissions bump. Maybe looking at SES is a better way to give children of less parents a leg up than race because

Wouldn't the 2nd get a bump, too? Possibly 1st gen, geographic diversity, SES diversity, underprivileged area.

because the race bump is bigger and there are only so many seats to go around

Huh? How do you know the race piece is a bigger factor that first gen/low income? Was that published somewhere?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So if a kid mentions their race or references it in an essay, what is the "fair admission" guy saying? That AOs can't use the essay?

That was one of the questions asked by (I think) Justice Jackson. There was no direct answer.

Eventually agreed that it is probably ok in that context, since an Asian student could also reference in their essay eg. discrimination that they may also have faced growing up.

I heard Jackson ask whether if you have 2 kids, one whose family has lived in NC for 5 generations and gone to UNC for 5 generations, and one whose family has lived in NC for 5 generations and could not go to UNC for 5 generations because of slavery, could they each say it was important to them to go to UNC for those reasons and could UNC consider each of those stories as factors and the plaintiffs' lawyer basically said UNC could consider the first and not the second (though he did say UNC could refuse to consider the first, and could consider first gen or low SES students).

It sounds so stpuid a kid born in 2023 is affected by the slavery of his/her slave ancestors.

Yes, stupid and very sad that this is true.

How is the kid affected by slavery today?

Seriously? You should do some googling about racism and how people are affected by it on a generational basis. I’m surprised you’ve never encountered information about why this is so.

Serously? you think Asians get less racism??

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So if a kid mentions their race or references it in an essay, what is the "fair admission" guy saying? That AOs can't use the essay?

That was one of the questions asked by (I think) Justice Jackson. There was no direct answer.

Eventually agreed that it is probably ok in that context, since an Asian student could also reference in their essay eg. discrimination that they may also have faced growing up.

I heard Jackson ask whether if you have 2 kids, one whose family has lived in NC for 5 generations and gone to UNC for 5 generations, and one whose family has lived in NC for 5 generations and could not go to UNC for 5 generations because of slavery, could they each say it was important to them to go to UNC for those reasons and could UNC consider each of those stories as factors and the plaintiffs' lawyer basically said UNC could consider the first and not the second (though he did say UNC could refuse to consider the first, and could consider first gen or low SES students).

Good example. Lets say that you have 2 kids. Once the child of African American physicians, the other the child of SWVA coal miners. Currently the African American child gets the admissions bump. Maybe looking at SES is a better way to give children of less parents a leg up than race because

Wouldn't the 2nd get a bump, too? Possibly 1st gen, geographic diversity, SES diversity, underprivileged area.

because the race bump is bigger and there are only so many seats to go around

Huh? How do you know the race piece is a bigger factor that first gen/low income? Was that published somewhere?

Be know that Harvard had quotas for black students and that there were no mention of quotas for first gen. Schools could make their rubrics public and dispel these fears, but they never will

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So if a kid mentions their race or references it in an essay, what is the "fair admission" guy saying? That AOs can't use the essay?

That was one of the questions asked by (I think) Justice Jackson. There was no direct answer.

Eventually agreed that it is probably ok in that context, since an Asian student could also reference in their essay eg. discrimination that they may also have faced growing up.

I heard Jackson ask whether if you have 2 kids, one whose family has lived in NC for 5 generations and gone to UNC for 5 generations, and one whose family has lived in NC for 5 generations and could not go to UNC for 5 generations because of slavery, could they each say it was important to them to go to UNC for those reasons and could UNC consider each of those stories as factors and the plaintiffs' lawyer basically said UNC could consider the first and not the second (though he did say UNC could refuse to consider the first, and could consider first gen or low SES students).

It sounds so stpuid a kid born in 2023 is affected by the slavery of his/her slave ancestors.

Yes, stupid and very sad that this is true.

How is the kid affected by slavery today?

She gave UNC as the example, so using North Carolina you have free slaves who are immediately turned into share croppers. Thanks to another century of Jim Crow and segregation, the odds that their descendants managed to build up the kind of wealth that a white family amassed is huge. The biggest massive move into the middle class was after WWII. The GI bill effectively excluded black southern men, union factory work was also out. If they did save enough for a home, redlining and discriminatory mortgage lending ensured that it would never be as good an investment as a similarly situated white family. But these problems have been solved for a couple of decades now, so people need to stop whining.

Uh... Korea, Japan, Vietnam, China all went through major wars, and a lot of immigrants came here without much, and they get as much as discrimination

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So if a kid mentions their race or references it in an essay, what is the "fair admission" guy saying? That AOs can't use the essay?

That was one of the questions asked by (I think) Justice Jackson. There was no direct answer.

Eventually agreed that it is probably ok in that context, since an Asian student could also reference in their essay eg. discrimination that they may also have faced growing up.

I heard Jackson ask whether if you have 2 kids, one whose family has lived in NC for 5 generations and gone to UNC for 5 generations, and one whose family has lived in NC for 5 generations and could not go to UNC for 5 generations because of slavery, could they each say it was important to them to go to UNC for those reasons and could UNC consider each of those stories as factors and the plaintiffs' lawyer basically said UNC could consider the first and not the second (though he did say UNC could refuse to consider the first, and could consider first gen or low SES students).

It sounds so stpuid a kid born in 2023 is affected by the slavery of his/her slave ancestors.

Yes, stupid and very sad that this is true.

How is the kid affected by slavery today?

She gave UNC as the example, so using North Carolina you have free slaves who are immediately turned into share croppers. Thanks to another century of Jim Crow and segregation, the odds that their descendants managed to build up the kind of wealth that a white family amassed is huge. The biggest massive move into the middle class was after WWII. The GI bill effectively excluded black southern men, union factory work was also out. If they did save enough for a home, redlining and discriminatory mortgage lending ensured that it would never be as good an investment as a similarly situated white family. But these problems have been solved for a couple of decades now, so people need to stop whining.

Uh... Korea, Japan, Vietnam, China all went through major wars, and a lot of immigrants came here without much, and they get as much as discrimination

ok, what exactly does the State of North Carolina owe a Chinese immigrant?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So if a kid mentions their race or references it in an essay, what is the "fair admission" guy saying? That AOs can't use the essay?

That was one of the questions asked by (I think) Justice Jackson. There was no direct answer.

Eventually agreed that it is probably ok in that context, since an Asian student could also reference in their essay eg. discrimination that they may also have faced growing up.

I heard Jackson ask whether if you have 2 kids, one whose family has lived in NC for 5 generations and gone to UNC for 5 generations, and one whose family has lived in NC for 5 generations and could not go to UNC for 5 generations because of slavery, could they each say it was important to them to go to UNC for those reasons and could UNC consider each of those stories as factors and the plaintiffs' lawyer basically said UNC could consider the first and not the second (though he did say UNC could refuse to consider the first, and could consider first gen or low SES students).

It sounds so stpuid a kid born in 2023 is affected by the slavery of his/her slave ancestors.

Yes, stupid and very sad that this is true.

How is the kid affected by slavery today?

Seriously? You should do some googling about racism and how people are affected by it on a generational basis. I’m surprised you’ve never encountered information about why this is so.

Serously? you think Asians get less racism??

Imho there is no difference.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So if a kid mentions their race or references it in an essay, what is the "fair admission" guy saying? That AOs can't use the essay?

That was one of the questions asked by (I think) Justice Jackson. There was no direct answer.

Eventually agreed that it is probably ok in that context, since an Asian student could also reference in their essay eg. discrimination that they may also have faced growing up.

I heard Jackson ask whether if you have 2 kids, one whose family has lived in NC for 5 generations and gone to UNC for 5 generations, and one whose family has lived in NC for 5 generations and could not go to UNC for 5 generations because of slavery, could they each say it was important to them to go to UNC for those reasons and could UNC consider each of those stories as factors and the plaintiffs' lawyer basically said UNC could consider the first and not the second (though he did say UNC could refuse to consider the first, and could consider first gen or low SES students).

It sounds so stpuid a kid born in 2023 is affected by the slavery of his/her slave ancestors.

Yes, stupid and very sad that this is true.

How is the kid affected by slavery today?

She gave UNC as the example, so using North Carolina you have free slaves who are immediately turned into share croppers. Thanks to another century of Jim Crow and segregation, the odds that their descendants managed to build up the kind of wealth that a white family amassed is huge. The biggest massive move into the middle class was after WWII. The GI bill effectively excluded black southern men, union factory work was also out. If they did save enough for a home, redlining and discriminatory mortgage lending ensured that it would never be as good an investment as a similarly situated white family. But these problems have been solved for a couple of decades now, so people need to stop whining.

Uh... Korea, Japan, Vietnam, China all went through major wars, and a lot of immigrants came here without much, and they get as much as discrimination

ok, what exactly does the State of North Carolina owe a Chinese immigrant?

Tax paying citizens??????????????????

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So if a kid mentions their race or references it in an essay, what is the "fair admission" guy saying? That AOs can't use the essay?

That was one of the questions asked by (I think) Justice Jackson. There was no direct answer.

Eventually agreed that it is probably ok in that context, since an Asian student could also reference in their essay eg. discrimination that they may also have faced growing up.

I heard Jackson ask whether if you have 2 kids, one whose family has lived in NC for 5 generations and gone to UNC for 5 generations, and one whose family has lived in NC for 5 generations and could not go to UNC for 5 generations because of slavery, could they each say it was important to them to go to UNC for those reasons and could UNC consider each of those stories as factors and the plaintiffs' lawyer basically said UNC could consider the first and not the second (though he did say UNC could refuse to consider the first, and could consider first gen or low SES students).

It sounds so stpuid a kid born in 2023 is affected by the slavery of his/her slave ancestors.

Yes, stupid and very sad that this is true.

How is the kid affected by slavery today?

She gave UNC as the example, so using North Carolina you have free slaves who are immediately turned into share croppers. Thanks to another century of Jim Crow and segregation, the odds that their descendants managed to build up the kind of wealth that a white family amassed is huge. The biggest massive move into the middle class was after WWII. The GI bill effectively excluded black southern men, union factory work was also out. If they did save enough for a home, redlining and discriminatory mortgage lending ensured that it would never be as good an investment as a similarly situated white family. But these problems have been solved for a couple of decades now, so people need to stop whining.

Uh... Korea, Japan, Vietnam, China all went through major wars, and a lot of immigrants came here without much, and they get as much as discrimination

ok, what exactly does the State of North Carolina owe a Chinese immigrant?

Tax paying citizens??????????????????

ok. On the other hand you have victims of 200+ years of state policy specifically intended to keep a group poor and powerless.