Antiracist System Audit

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm confused. My kids went through 4 years each in MCPS and they never read Melville or Shakespeare. Every English book they read was about the struggle of some disadvantaged group or person. I guess the did read Animal Farm which is considered a classic but the main message there is that some people are more equal than others so it fits the narrative.

My kids have read Shakespeare in their MCPS schools. Romeo and Juliet and A Midsummer Night's Dream, IIRC. Don't remember any Melville specifically, but it's possible the older kid read Bartleby the Scrivener. No high school kid is reading Moby Dick in school; that's for college English majors only.

Also, have they read the entire play, or just excerpts?

At our nonW MS, they just pick out excerpts to have the kids read. Kids rarely read an entire book.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm confused. My kids went through 4 years each in MCPS and they never read Melville or Shakespeare. Every English book they read was about the struggle of some disadvantaged group or person. I guess the did read Animal Farm which is considered a classic but the main message there is that some people are more equal than others so it fits the narrative.

My kids have read Shakespeare in their MCPS schools. Romeo and Juliet and A Midsummer Night's Dream, IIRC. Don't remember any Melville specifically, but it's possible the older kid read Bartleby the Scrivener. No high school kid is reading Moby Dick in school; that's for college English majors only.

Also, have they read the entire play, or just excerpts?

At our nonW MS, they just pick out excerpts to have the kids read. Kids rarely read an entire book.

That’s pathetic.

Oh and to the PP who says no high schooler is reading Moby Dick: maybe in MCPS they’re not, but I definitely read Moby Dick in high school. I don’t think it was that unusual.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm confused. My kids went through 4 years each in MCPS and they never read Melville or Shakespeare. Every English book they read was about the struggle of some disadvantaged group or person. I guess the did read Animal Farm which is considered a classic but the main message there is that some people are more equal than others so it fits the narrative.

My kids have read Shakespeare in their MCPS schools. Romeo and Juliet and A Midsummer Night's Dream, IIRC. Don't remember any Melville specifically, but it's possible the older kid read Bartleby the Scrivener. No high school kid is reading Moby Dick in school; that's for college English majors only.

Also, have they read the entire play, or just excerpts?

At our nonW MS, they just pick out excerpts to have the kids read. Kids rarely read an entire book.

That’s pathetic.

Oh and to the PP who says no high schooler is reading Moby Dick: maybe in MCPS they’re not, but I definitely read Moby Dick in high school. I don’t think it was that unusual.

I read Billy Budd in high school, which is much shorter. We did read some long novels though, like David Copperfield, Crime and Punishment, Ivanhoe. Yes, it was a lot of white male authors. I think the short stories we read were from a more diverse group.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm confused. My kids went through 4 years each in MCPS and they never read Melville or Shakespeare. Every English book they read was about the struggle of some disadvantaged group or person. I guess the did read Animal Farm which is considered a classic but the main message there is that some people are more equal than others so it fits the narrative.

My kids have read Shakespeare in their MCPS schools. Romeo and Juliet and A Midsummer Night's Dream, IIRC. Don't remember any Melville specifically, but it's possible the older kid read Bartleby the Scrivener. No high school kid is reading Moby Dick in school; that's for college English majors only.

Also, have they read the entire play, or just excerpts?

At our nonW MS, they just pick out excerpts to have the kids read. Kids rarely read an entire book.

That’s pathetic.

Oh and to the PP who says no high schooler is reading Moby Dick: maybe in MCPS they’re not, but I definitely read Moby Dick in high school. I don’t think it was that unusual.

I read Billy Budd in high school, which is much shorter. We did read some long novels though, like David Copperfield, Crime and Punishment, Ivanhoe. Yes, it was a lot of white male authors. I think the short stories we read were from a more diverse group.

I want to say that, while I think it’s important for kids to learn how to digest long novels, spending time analyzing short pieces of work is just as important. People tend to equate length with quality, but that’s of course not true. I took a short stories class in high school and remember spending the entire class period analyzing a 1-page short story.

Yes, at the time that meant reading a lot of old white authors, but looking at the list of English courses now, I see courses in Black Oratorical Power, African literature (as separate from AA authors), Latin American literature, Central American literature, Haitian literature, contemporary Native American authors, etc. They offer all of that alongside seminars on Shakespeare, Yeats, Dickens, Jane Austen, etc.

This is at a private school, but there isn’t any reason why MCPS couldn’t implement something similar.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm confused. My kids went through 4 years each in MCPS and they never read Melville or Shakespeare. Every English book they read was about the struggle of some disadvantaged group or person. I guess the did read Animal Farm which is considered a classic but the main message there is that some people are more equal than others so it fits the narrative.

My kids have read Shakespeare in their MCPS schools. Romeo and Juliet and A Midsummer Night's Dream, IIRC. Don't remember any Melville specifically, but it's possible the older kid read Bartleby the Scrivener. No high school kid is reading Moby Dick in school; that's for college English majors only.

Also, have they read the entire play, or just excerpts?

At our nonW MS, they just pick out excerpts to have the kids read. Kids rarely read an entire book.

That’s pathetic.

Oh and to the PP who says no high schooler is reading Moby Dick: maybe in MCPS they’re not, but I definitely read Moby Dick in high school. I don’t think it was that unusual.

I read Billy Budd in high school, which is much shorter. We did read some long novels though, like David Copperfield, Crime and Punishment, Ivanhoe. Yes, it was a lot of white male authors. I think the short stories we read were from a more diverse group.

I’m not the PP, but we also read Billy Budd in high school.

As to the other PP, I can see why there is a benefit to reading excerpts, but I’m not sure that it is effective the way MCPS does it at our MS.

My kid is in high school now, but she read 3 books in MS.
Red Scarf Girl - in HIGH, not even in English
Stamped
The Pact
Everything else was excerpts using the Study Sync curriculum, which was pretty crappy - even according to the English teachers, who really disliked it.

The low expectations in MS English are certainly not helping. My kid is now at a private school and is actually reading novels. I’m not White, but I’m more concerned with exposing my kid to good quality writing, regardless of the race of the author.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm confused. My kids went through 4 years each in MCPS and they never read Melville or Shakespeare. Every English book they read was about the struggle of some disadvantaged group or person. I guess the did read Animal Farm which is considered a classic but the main message there is that some people are more equal than others so it fits the narrative.

My kids have read Shakespeare in their MCPS schools. Romeo and Juliet and A Midsummer Night's Dream, IIRC. Don't remember any Melville specifically, but it's possible the older kid read Bartleby the Scrivener. No high school kid is reading Moby Dick in school; that's for college English majors only.

Also, have they read the entire play, or just excerpts?

At our nonW MS, they just pick out excerpts to have the kids read. Kids rarely read an entire book.

That’s pathetic.

Oh and to the PP who says no high schooler is reading Moby Dick: maybe in MCPS they’re not, but I definitely read Moby Dick in high school. I don’t think it was that unusual.

I read Billy Budd in high school, which is much shorter. We did read some long novels though, like David Copperfield, Crime and Punishment, Ivanhoe. Yes, it was a lot of white male authors. I think the short stories we read were from a more diverse group.

I’m not the PP, but we also read Billy Budd in high school.

As to the other PP, I can see why there is a benefit to reading excerpts, but I’m not sure that it is effective the way MCPS does it at our MS.

My kid is in high school now, but she read 3 books in MS.
Red Scarf Girl - in HIGH, not even in English
Stamped
The Pact
Everything else was excerpts using the Study Sync curriculum, which was pretty crappy - even according to the English teachers, who really disliked it.

The low expectations in MS English are certainly not helping. My kid is now at a private school and is actually reading novels. I’m not White, but I’m more concerned with exposing my kid to good quality writing, regardless of the race of the author.

So you’re saying there was actually a difference between public and private school, in terms of quality of education? Take note, posters who claim private school is no better.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm confused. My kids went through 4 years each in MCPS and they never read Melville or Shakespeare. Every English book they read was about the struggle of some disadvantaged group or person. I guess the did read Animal Farm which is considered a classic but the main message there is that some people are more equal than others so it fits the narrative.

My kids have read Shakespeare in their MCPS schools. Romeo and Juliet and A Midsummer Night's Dream, IIRC. Don't remember any Melville specifically, but it's possible the older kid read Bartleby the Scrivener. No high school kid is reading Moby Dick in school; that's for college English majors only.

Also, have they read the entire play, or just excerpts?

At our nonW MS, they just pick out excerpts to have the kids read. Kids rarely read an entire book.

That’s pathetic.

Oh and to the PP who says no high schooler is reading Moby Dick: maybe in MCPS they’re not, but I definitely read Moby Dick in high school. I don’t think it was that unusual.

I read Billy Budd in high school, which is much shorter. We did read some long novels though, like David Copperfield, Crime and Punishment, Ivanhoe. Yes, it was a lot of white male authors. I think the short stories we read were from a more diverse group.

I’m not the PP, but we also read Billy Budd in high school.

As to the other PP, I can see why there is a benefit to reading excerpts, but I’m not sure that it is effective the way MCPS does it at our MS.

My kid is in high school now, but she read 3 books in MS.
Red Scarf Girl - in HIGH, not even in English
Stamped
The Pact
Everything else was excerpts using the Study Sync curriculum, which was pretty crappy - even according to the English teachers, who really disliked it.

The low expectations in MS English are certainly not helping. My kid is now at a private school and is actually reading novels. I’m not White, but I’m more concerned with exposing my kid to good quality writing, regardless of the race of the author.

So you’re saying there was actually a difference between public and private school, in terms of quality of education? Take note, posters who claim private school is no better.

It depends on where you go. My kids had a much worse educational experience in private. They are both in public now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm confused. My kids went through 4 years each in MCPS and they never read Melville or Shakespeare. Every English book they read was about the struggle of some disadvantaged group or person. I guess the did read Animal Farm which is considered a classic but the main message there is that some people are more equal than others so it fits the narrative.

My kids have read Shakespeare in their MCPS schools. Romeo and Juliet and A Midsummer Night's Dream, IIRC. Don't remember any Melville specifically, but it's possible the older kid read Bartleby the Scrivener. No high school kid is reading Moby Dick in school; that's for college English majors only.

Also, have they read the entire play, or just excerpts?

At our nonW MS, they just pick out excerpts to have the kids read. Kids rarely read an entire book.

My kids also read a half dozen Shakespeare plays at their non W focus RS The entire play.

[Anonymous]

Sorry ES

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm confused. My kids went through 4 years each in MCPS and they never read Melville or Shakespeare. Every English book they read was about the struggle of some disadvantaged group or person. I guess the did read Animal Farm which is considered a classic but the main message there is that some people are more equal than others so it fits the narrative.

My kids have read Shakespeare in their MCPS schools. Romeo and Juliet and A Midsummer Night's Dream, IIRC. Don't remember any Melville specifically, but it's possible the older kid read Bartleby the Scrivener. No high school kid is reading Moby Dick in school; that's for college English majors only.

Also, have they read the entire play, or just excerpts?

At our nonW MS, they just pick out excerpts to have the kids read. Kids rarely read an entire book.

That’s pathetic.

Oh and to the PP who says no high schooler is reading Moby Dick: maybe in MCPS they’re not, but I definitely read Moby Dick in high school. I don’t think it was that unusual.

I read Billy Budd in high school, which is much shorter. We did read some long novels though, like David Copperfield, Crime and Punishment, Ivanhoe. Yes, it was a lot of white male authors. I think the short stories we read were from a more diverse group.

I’m not the PP, but we also read Billy Budd in high school.

As to the other PP, I can see why there is a benefit to reading excerpts, but I’m not sure that it is effective the way MCPS does it at our MS.

My kid is in high school now, but she read 3 books in MS.
Red Scarf Girl - in HIGH, not even in English
Stamped
The Pact
Everything else was excerpts using the Study Sync curriculum, which was pretty crappy - even according to the English teachers, who really disliked it.

The low expectations in MS English are certainly not helping. My kid is now at a private school and is actually reading novels. I’m not White, but I’m more concerned with exposing my kid to good quality writing, regardless of the race of the author.

So you’re saying there was actually a difference between public and private school, in terms of quality of education? Take note, posters who claim private school is no better.

I don't know about other MS, but my DCs now in HS, have read novels, the entire book, in MS.

[Anonymous]

My children have been in both public and private. Private really shines in reading and writing. The class sizes are much smaller. The classes have more uniformity in skills and abilities and resources. And the teacher can assign several more books each year, and still spend significant instruction time on each of them.

That was really the only benefit I saw for private. The other classes are all similar. And there are some drawbacks to private as well.

[Anonymous]

Writing in our non-W CES was off the hook. According to my 10 year old half the kids wrote 10+ page papers. The one DC wrote, completely on their own, really was great for their age. I think the teacher expected a lot and most kids delivered.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Writing in our non-W CES was off the hook. According to my 10 year old half the kids wrote 10+ page papers. The one DC wrote, completely on their own, really was great for their age. I think the teacher expected a lot and most kids delivered.

This poster is probably the teacher at PBES RLA. That program had so many issues I hope they pull the plug on it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Btw PP, you are trying to argue that books with White authors should account for 88% of the MCPS curriculum in a school system that is 25% White. Do you not see how you are upholding White supremacy?

Yes, I am saying that this country, with its foundations in the Enlightenment and the English language, will by necessity need to teach from that heritage if it expects people to value the things that made it successful.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What does racial equity work look like when there is no proof that disparities in any particular measure means there is bias?

Why not just meet every child where they are and go from there?

This is such a racist dog whistle. Any such disparities are due to systemic inquities in the classroom.

It isn't racist. It's intelligent inquiry. Association is not causation.

But if you build policy on association, you end up with unintended, and often harmful impacts. And no guarantee you actually fix anything.

Schools can't equalize outcomes when some kids are born and remain in poverty when others come from outrageous wealth.
Schools can't equalize outcomes when some kids have robust health insurance coverage that pays for neuropsych exams and years of therapy when other kids have nothing.
Schools can't equalize outcomes when some kids are homeless and others have stable homes, stable transportation, etc.
Schools can't equalize outcomes when some kids have parents with mental health or substance misuse disorders and other kids have parents with no additional medical needs.
Schools can't equalize outcomes when some kids have parents who can run to the store for the supplies they need for a last minute project and others can't.


If we ignore those systematic inequities outside of school, we have no hope of improving things within schools.

Maybe it's just me, but I don't think a goal of any school should be equalized outcomes. Equalized opportunities sure, but not outcomes.

If you read the comments in the audit report, it is clear that many do not perceive equalized opportunities.

Yes, this has been an ongoing issue with the USA but not something MCPS can correct. MCPS needs to focus on educating children and leave societal issues to soceity.

Obviously MCPS can't correct all the problems of society; no one is suggesting that they should. But I see nothing wrong with MCPS trying to correct the school-based problems cited in the report.

Unfortunately those problems stem from larger societal problems and are beyond mcps' pervue.

Sounds like you haven't read the report. There are plenty of issues within MCPS's purview.

I did and you're statement makes it clear you failed to grasp it. MCPS can't solve these problems. Their scope is global. MCPS job is to educate children and because it's so distracted, it is failing to do that.

Next, MCPS should fund a study on solving global warming!

It was proven that the globe is not warming, so we changed it to climate change.

Agree MCPS needs to fund a multi-million dollar study to prevent climate change and poverty too. Who needs to hire teachers when we face so many large global problems!

MCPS has been building LEED certified buildings for years to help address their part in climate change. Heck, I do stuff, too, even though I can't solve climate change.

If no one tackles their own part of an enormous problem but rather waits for someone else to take care of it, it never gets taken care of.

MCPS’s own part is to meet each kid where they’re at as an individual and teach them academic subjects, specials like music and art, and physical education. That’s what my taxpayer money is paying for.

So MCPS should sweep any implicit bias and systemic racism under the rug?

Systems level: If they used valid research to identify just exactly what parts of MCPD were systemically racist, then they should work to remove it.

Individual level: We all have implicit bias. You can't get rid of it You can only modify actions. MCPS needs to outline very clear guidance on appropriate behavior. And then hold people accountable if they violate it.

You're advocating for paralysis by analysis. You don't need expensive, never-ending studies at the local level to know that systemic racism exists in MCPS. MCPS is not some magical land that is different from every other school district in the country. You combine the information we have locally with rigorous studies from elsewhere to understand what the issues are.

I am not. Mcps has a history of implementing new programs, costing millions, with zero accountability. The don’t sufficiently train employees and/or fail to bring in true experts, and their feel-good ideas never amount to any improvement. If we (if the board would do its job) and require explicit identification of things we can change, then oversight to ensure it has the desired effect, that would be a different story. How are they measuring effectiveness of Leader in Me for example? They aren’t. They instead just take credit for all the bright shiny new programs they force on kids (and teachers).

And the truth is MCPS is light years ahead of most of the nation making schools inclusive. There are tested, evidence based ways to do that, and we have done much of it. My kid hasn’t read one work of fiction yet that’s part of the old school, traditional (white) canon. Last year he read Yoruba Girl Dancing and this year he’s reading The Book of Unknown Americans. And that’s great. Social Studies is absolutely fantastic, teaching from multiple perspectives, using primary and secondary sources, and teaching the different value of each.

The rest is interpersonal behavior within explicitly stated norms. They didn’t need an antiracist audit for that.

Why is it fantastic that kids do not read anything from the source of our culture? And a large group of kids are given the message that their own ancestors are shameful? Why do we abandon our own culture because people from around the world were drawn to live in it?

I said the social studies curriculum is fantastic. The books are from English class, and I do think it's great to read authors of color. But I never said we should exclude traditional white texts. I think they should read both. My anecdote was meant to illustrate that the school system has changed its curricula to be more inclusive and in the case of social studies, more honest.

So sorry, I guess you said, "it was great" that your child "hadn't read one work of fiction yet that's part of the old school, traditional (white) canon."