How much is Queen E to blame for Britain's colonism, really?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The anger is at the position largely - not necessarily the person. It is legitimate to object to the glorification of the british crown which is what alot of the media coverage and social media posts are doing.

Elizabeth the private person is largely unknown. People are not picking on her "personally" they are objecting to the undiluted praise of a role that is very problematic historically

People have the right to be uncomfortable with that for many reasons

The role of the US Presidency is equally problematic and — recently — has been far worse than the UK. You better start cancelling every US President since George Washington whose land came from Lord Fairfax, a Brit

Who said anything about cancelling Elizabeth? I think more people are saying as Americans she's not our queen, we don't have a royal family and why are so many people so obsessed with her when the British empire had a pretty negative impact on alot of places where current Americans came from. No one is talking about "cancelling" her - just looking for some nuance in the ridiculous canonization that's going on right now

What a bit of jabberwocky

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The anger is at the position largely - not necessarily the person. It is legitimate to object to the glorification of the british crown which is what alot of the media coverage and social media posts are doing.

Elizabeth the private person is largely unknown. People are not picking on her "personally" they are objecting to the undiluted praise of a role that is very problematic historically

People have the right to be uncomfortable with that for many reasons

+1

Totally agree that it's not so much her life /.existence as the way trh BRF is still glorified and whitewashed today, and especially right now

Does this mean you missed the service today at St Giles?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The anger is at the position largely - not necessarily the person. It is legitimate to object to the glorification of the british crown which is what alot of the media coverage and social media posts are doing.

Elizabeth the private person is largely unknown. People are not picking on her "personally" they are objecting to the undiluted praise of a role that is very problematic historically

People have the right to be uncomfortable with that for many reasons

The role of the US Presidency is equally problematic and — recently — has been far worse than the UK. You better start cancelling every US President since George Washington whose land came from Lord Fairfax, a Brit

Who said anything about cancelling Elizabeth? I think more people are saying as Americans she's not our queen, we don't have a royal family and why are so many people so obsessed with her when the British empire had a pretty negative impact on alot of places where current Americans came from. No one is talking about "cancelling" her - just looking for some nuance in the ridiculous canonization that's going on right now

I said nothing about cancelling Queen Elizabeth. I said cancelling George Washington. But I do want to canonize Queen Elizabeth

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To what extent are France and Portugal also being held responsible for colonizing India, in the public opinion? Their monarchies were obviously long gone by the 1950s and 60s when their Indian colonies finally gained independence. Britain and France traded Pondicherry back and forth between them for centuries. I've yet to hear an outcry about the French and Portuguese governments, or any demand for reparations from them, which makes the sudden backlash against British constitutional monarchy sound contrived. Clearly European colonialism flourished despite the absence of monarchies.

Absolutely Indians from that region (Goa) feel the Portuguese were brutal. Doesn't make British colonization "okay" (like, everyone's doing it so who cares?)

You missed the point. The point is that colonialism was also perpetuated by governments without monarchies (such as Portugal in the 20th c), so there's clearly some selective moral grandstanding going on. Portugal enriched itself by keeping Goa into the 60s. The Goan fight for independence was almost 200 years after our own, and people lost their lives for it. Yet you're still going to Portugal for your summer vacays like you DGAF that colonial human rights abuses were perpetuated by the Portuguese government a few decades ago, and probably you really don't care and didn't know. Blaming the monarchy is so convenient because it keeps the focus off our own Neocolonialism. It's not about monarchy per se, it's about power.

[Anonymous]

Queen had a MASSIVE fortune. Did she give any of it back? Acknowledge where it came from? Say anything at all about its provenance? That's where all the folks saying 'oh she had no power, she was just a figurehead' confuse me. Did she or did she not have hundreds of millions of personal assets she inherited from people who directly did bad things? Did she or did she not have access to benefits from the billions owned by whatever you call the royal businesses/state? Even if you carve off the second, are you really just going to ignore the first?

[Anonymous]

Yes people understand where some of their wealth came from. They also acknowledge some jewels were gifts. Not all of their wealth just came from this and certainly not in recent years. Some was personal jewellery of the Queens obtained in her lifetime and others royal jewellery. They did give back priceless artifacts to African countries.

A lot of countries have gained wealth by dubious means throughout the years. People acknowledge and understand the past and what happened. They just don't hold onto the hate. People understand history is riddled with violence and unfairness.

Unfortunately because she is white their will be hatred. They won't see the good she did or what she gave as well. Yes she grew up in privilege but what does it help to hate those more fortunate.

Plenty of billionaires out there whose money is made off other people's misery. Do you buy diamonds today. People today love diamonds at the expense of others. Blood diamonds. It's so easy to be righteous when a lot of things are consumed from others suffering even animals. I bet you wear leather, the list goes on. Unfortunately life is not always fair. We understand the mistakes of the past, apologies have been made to indigenous people in commonwealth countries. If they still choose to hate, what can you do. So much in recent years has been given but the past can't be changed and seeing the Royal Family broke and dead is the only answer some people have to be happy which is simply a miserable way to live.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Yes people understand where some of their wealth came from. They also acknowledge some jewels were gifts. Not all of their wealth just came from this and certainly not in recent years. Some was personal jewellery of the Queens obtained in her lifetime and others royal jewellery. They did give back priceless artifacts to African countries.

A lot of countries have gained wealth by dubious means throughout the years. People acknowledge and understand the past and what happened. They just don't hold onto the hate. People understand history is riddled with violence and unfairness.

Unfortunately because she is white their will be hatred. They won't see the good she did or what she gave as well. Yes she grew up in privilege but what does it help to hate those more fortunate.

Plenty of billionaires out there whose money is made off other people's misery. Do you buy diamonds today. People today love diamonds at the expense of others. Blood diamonds. It's so easy to be righteous when a lot of things are consumed from others suffering even animals. I bet you wear leather, the list goes on. Unfortunately life is not always fair. We understand the mistakes of the past, apologies have been made to indigenous people in commonwealth countries. If they still choose to hate, what can you do. So much in recent years has been given but the past can't be changed and seeing the Royal Family broke and dead is the only answer some people have to be happy which is simply a miserable way to live.

Omg so much gaslighting. Cry me a river. You realize all this happened in the recent past right? Most of this travesty less than a century old

[Anonymous]

This thread is a prime example of what is wrong with the world. The royals may not have direct political power, but they do have authority indirectly through their relationships with those in power. They also have the hearts of the people who elect the politicians in office. I don't think anyone would force the Queen do anything she wasn't in favor of. For example, discriminating against staff for clerical roles by the Palace https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/jun/02/buckingham-palace-banned-ethnic-minorities-from-office-roles-papers-reveal.

Charles, the current King, sure as hell wasn't shy to use his influence when it came to lobbying for his interests:

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/may/13/prince-charles-black-spider-memos-published-after-10-year-legal-battle

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes people understand where some of their wealth came from. They also acknowledge some jewels were gifts. Not all of their wealth just came from this and certainly not in recent years. Some was personal jewellery of the Queens obtained in her lifetime and others royal jewellery. They did give back priceless artifacts to African countries.

A lot of countries have gained wealth by dubious means throughout the years. People acknowledge and understand the past and what happened. They just don't hold onto the hate. People understand history is riddled with violence and unfairness.

Unfortunately because she is white their will be hatred. They won't see the good she did or what she gave as well. Yes she grew up in privilege but what does it help to hate those more fortunate.

Plenty of billionaires out there whose money is made off other people's misery. Do you buy diamonds today. People today love diamonds at the expense of others. Blood diamonds. It's so easy to be righteous when a lot of things are consumed from others suffering even animals. I bet you wear leather, the list goes on. Unfortunately life is not always fair. We understand the mistakes of the past, apologies have been made to indigenous people in commonwealth countries. If they still choose to hate, what can you do. So much in recent years has been given but the past can't be changed and seeing the Royal Family broke and dead is the only answer some people have to be happy which is simply a miserable way to live.

So should the Jews have been okay with seeing the death of Hitler celebrated favorably by Nazi sympathizers? I mean, not everyone thought he was bad. I think the issue at hand is that the death of a controversial figure is being broadcasted around the world in spite of the fact that the kingdom under her authority is to blame for genocides and atrocities that impacted many countries. Wounds that even today are still not healed.

[Anonymous]

How much is Queen E to blame for mental health problems in the US?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Seems like she was just in a line of monarchs after the fact, with many situations changing in the last 70 years anyway. She had no actual power, colonized nothing, etc. They are a show family, they don't actually reign, just a lot of pageantry.

Why all the targeted hate towards her?

She benefitted from it but did not cause it. British Empire was already declining by the time she became Queen. The Daily from last week lays this out nicely. She adapted to that change b/c she had to.

She was far from perfect. Same for everyone reading this. But she did not "cause" colonization.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This thread is a prime example of what is wrong with the world. The royals may not have direct political power, but they do have authority indirectly through their relationships with those in power. They also have the hearts of the people who elect the politicians in office. I don't think anyone would force the Queen do anything she wasn't in favor of. For example, discriminating against staff for clerical roles by the Palace https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/jun/02/buckingham-palace-banned-ethnic-minorities-from-office-roles-papers-reveal.

Charles, the current King, sure as hell wasn't shy to use his influence when it came to lobbying for his interests:

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/may/13/prince-charles-black-spider-memos-published-after-10-year-legal-battle

Who knew people in power used that to benefit themselves.

In other news, the sky is blue.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To what extent are France and Portugal also being held responsible for colonizing India, in the public opinion? Their monarchies were obviously long gone by the 1950s and 60s when their Indian colonies finally gained independence. Britain and France traded Pondicherry back and forth between them for centuries. I've yet to hear an outcry about the French and Portuguese governments, or any demand for reparations from them, which makes the sudden backlash against British constitutional monarchy sound contrived. Clearly European colonialism flourished despite the absence of monarchies.

Absolutely Indians from that region (Goa) feel the Portuguese were brutal. Doesn't make British colonization "okay" (like, everyone's doing it so who cares?)

You missed the point. The point is that colonialism was also perpetuated by governments without monarchies (such as Portugal in the 20th c), so there's clearly some selective moral grandstanding going on. Portugal enriched itself by keeping Goa into the 60s. The Goan fight for independence was almost 200 years after our own, and people lost their lives for it. Yet you're still going to Portugal for your summer vacays like you DGAF that colonial human rights abuses were perpetuated by the Portuguese government a few decades ago, and probably you really don't care and didn't know. Blaming the monarchy is so convenient because it keeps the focus off our own Neocolonialism. It's not about monarchy per se, it's about power.

Are you a Catholic from Goa? That was a legacy of the Portuguese

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes people understand where some of their wealth came from. They also acknowledge some jewels were gifts. Not all of their wealth just came from this and certainly not in recent years. Some was personal jewellery of the Queens obtained in her lifetime and others royal jewellery. They did give back priceless artifacts to African countries.

A lot of countries have gained wealth by dubious means throughout the years. People acknowledge and understand the past and what happened. They just don't hold onto the hate. People understand history is riddled with violence and unfairness.

Unfortunately because she is white their will be hatred. They won't see the good she did or what she gave as well. Yes she grew up in privilege but what does it help to hate those more fortunate.

Plenty of billionaires out there whose money is made off other people's misery. Do you buy diamonds today. People today love diamonds at the expense of others. Blood diamonds. It's so easy to be righteous when a lot of things are consumed from others suffering even animals. I bet you wear leather, the list goes on. Unfortunately life is not always fair. We understand the mistakes of the past, apologies have been made to indigenous people in commonwealth countries. If they still choose to hate, what can you do. So much in recent years has been given but the past can't be changed and seeing the Royal Family broke and dead is the only answer some people have to be happy which is simply a miserable way to live.

Omg so much gaslighting. Cry me a river. You realize all this happened in the recent past right? Most of this travesty less than a century old

What are you doing to make amends?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Right because if all these places were never colonized they would have all joined hands across Asia or Africa and lived in harmony. The world happens. Wrongs cannot be made right. Blood money doesn't wash away the blood. There is no going back, only forward.

You have some nerve, I have to say,😡. Goes back to the assumption that people living there were savages who would have killed each other. British went to places that they could loot and benefit from. Simple

And, of course, all the colonizers of Africa were also drivers of the slave trade and then used the trade to justify colonization (because of course any non-European group that participated in the trade must be incapable of self-rule).

The colonizers of Africa, aided and abetted by Africans, were also drivers of the slave trade…
FTFY