Summer swim kids swimming in “wrong” age group

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s an interesting point. My son is a small 7 and he is racing against kids that turned 9 mid season. There is a huge difference between a 7 year old and a 9 year old in height, weight, strength.

Hang on…wait til your swimmer is 11 swimming against that kid when he’s 13.

You poor thing. Your 11 year old swimmer must not be very fast. My 11 year old swimmer can hold their own against the 13 year olds.

Gosh. You're an awful person. Get help.

Parents of kids with summer birthdays are used to always having their kid be the youngest. It happens over and over. It seems a bit ridiculous to hear the parents of kids with school year birthdays to suddenly get bent out of shape that their kid no longer has the advantage in just this one thing. They'll harp on and on about how redshirting is wrong and age cut offs must be respected. Or how after 1st grade it doesn't really matter that their kid is 12 months older, that doesn't give an advantage, their kid is just very athletic. Yet here there is just one June 1st cutoff--the only one I've ever heard of--and those same parents are up in arms. Well, welcome to how it feels. It's no different than my 8 yo being in basketball tryouts with almost 11 yos who have already hit puberty and have 40 lbs and 14 inches on her. (And in this case the disadvantage is only for the fun summer season, your kid can still do winter swim with age cutoffs. With basketball it's the same cutoff for rec, AAU and travel so she'll never have an opportunity to not be the very youngest.)

Yes, its this exactly that is rubbing me the wrong way. I have 2 summer bday kids (who are not club swimmers). When I first read this thread, I thought well I was not allowed to make excuses for my kids behavior in school "because they were the youngest" nor do I make excuses in all the other sports they participate in by grade level where redshirted kids are literally 3 years older than my kids. I just let them play the sport and strive to get better. I have one kid that is tiny and that kid is often 8-10 inches shorter than the other kids on the soccer field. They have had to learn over the years not to be afraid to get in there and mix it up with the bigger kids if they want to get the ball.

Let's be real, for most/all of our kids sports is a way to have fun, teach discipline and sportsmanship. This thread leaves a bad taste in my mouth about swim in general. I am so happy to watch my kids do the cheers, hang over lanes to encourage their friends and goof around between races (especially after 2 years of covid). Parents who are complaining about a random date, please don't ruin it for the rest of us.

This is a little different though because there are defined age groups in summer swim, but then if your birthday falls in an 8 week period you are allowed to swim in an age group that you have aged out of. It’s also weird to see the listing of the kids’ ages in heat sheets and see Larla Smith age 10 when everyone knows that Larla Smith is actually age 11.

This happens in other sports, though. It happens in baseball, where the age cutoff for the 6+ summer tournaments my kids played in was May 1, so kids (including one of mine) were playing ___U baseball up to 2-3 months after they turned the next age (i.e., playing 9U baseball for the summer after turning 10 in May). And yeah, everyone knows that a fair number of kids in the tournament playing 9U (or 10U, or whatever) are not actually that age. The point is that they created a defined, one year age group - which in that case, is May 1 - April 30 - and everyone with a birthday in that one year age band is in that age group.

My kids are relatively young, but I swam growing up, eventually on scholarship at an NCAA division 1 program- genuine question, do these 15-18 kids not do high school swimming? We did club swimming growing up, but the focus was the HS season, where I was a 14 year old 9th grader swimming against 18-19 year old HS seniors. I'll be honest, I'm struggling to understand why this is so harmful, particularly on the girls' side. And if the concern is that kids are returning to summer league after a year in an NCAA program, then prohibit that- a strictly age-based rule won't do it. I (and plenty of other kids, I'm sure) was 18 until September of my sophomore year of college and could have competed even if you changed the age ranges.

There is a reason for that in team sports vs individual because there are positions on the court/in the field that need to be filled in team sports, as well as developing team chemistry, etc. None of those considerations come into play in swimming, it’s you against the clock. There is literally no reason for there to be kids who have aged out of a group swimming down. It’s a short season, set the cutoff date on August 1st or August 15th (to make sure all stars is complete) and be done with it. It’s so counterintuitive to have swim leagues that start Memorial Day and have an age up cutoff on June 1st as opposed to August at the end of the season. If the cutoff is august no one could complain about 13 year olds swimming in the 11-12 age group.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s an interesting point. My son is a small 7 and he is racing against kids that turned 9 mid season. There is a huge difference between a 7 year old and a 9 year old in height, weight, strength.

Hang on…wait til your swimmer is 11 swimming against that kid when he’s 13.

You poor thing. Your 11 year old swimmer must not be very fast. My 11 year old swimmer can hold their own against the 13 year olds.

Gosh. You're an awful person. Get help.

Parents of kids with summer birthdays are used to always having their kid be the youngest. It happens over and over. It seems a bit ridiculous to hear the parents of kids with school year birthdays to suddenly get bent out of shape that their kid no longer has the advantage in just this one thing. They'll harp on and on about how redshirting is wrong and age cut offs must be respected. Or how after 1st grade it doesn't really matter that their kid is 12 months older, that doesn't give an advantage, their kid is just very athletic. Yet here there is just one June 1st cutoff--the only one I've ever heard of--and those same parents are up in arms. Well, welcome to how it feels. It's no different than my 8 yo being in basketball tryouts with almost 11 yos who have already hit puberty and have 40 lbs and 14 inches on her. (And in this case the disadvantage is only for the fun summer season, your kid can still do winter swim with age cutoffs. With basketball it's the same cutoff for rec, AAU and travel so she'll never have an opportunity to not be the very youngest.)

Yes, its this exactly that is rubbing me the wrong way. I have 2 summer bday kids (who are not club swimmers). When I first read this thread, I thought well I was not allowed to make excuses for my kids behavior in school "because they were the youngest" nor do I make excuses in all the other sports they participate in by grade level where redshirted kids are literally 3 years older than my kids. I just let them play the sport and strive to get better. I have one kid that is tiny and that kid is often 8-10 inches shorter than the other kids on the soccer field. They have had to learn over the years not to be afraid to get in there and mix it up with the bigger kids if they want to get the ball.

Let's be real, for most/all of our kids sports is a way to have fun, teach discipline and sportsmanship. This thread leaves a bad taste in my mouth about swim in general. I am so happy to watch my kids do the cheers, hang over lanes to encourage their friends and goof around between races (especially after 2 years of covid). Parents who are complaining about a random date, please don't ruin it for the rest of us.

This is a little different though because there are defined age groups in summer swim, but then if your birthday falls in an 8 week period you are allowed to swim in an age group that you have aged out of. It’s also weird to see the listing of the kids’ ages in heat sheets and see Larla Smith age 10 when everyone knows that Larla Smith is actually age 11.

This happens in other sports, though. It happens in baseball, where the age cutoff for the 6+ summer tournaments my kids played in was May 1, so kids (including one of mine) were playing ___U baseball up to 2-3 months after they turned the next age (i.e., playing 9U baseball for the summer after turning 10 in May). And yeah, everyone knows that a fair number of kids in the tournament playing 9U (or 10U, or whatever) are not actually that age. The point is that they created a defined, one year age group - which in that case, is May 1 - April 30 - and everyone with a birthday in that one year age band is in that age group.

My kids are relatively young, but I swam growing up, eventually on scholarship at an NCAA division 1 program- genuine question, do these 15-18 kids not do high school swimming? We did club swimming growing up, but the focus was the HS season, where I was a 14 year old 9th grader swimming against 18-19 year old HS seniors. I'll be honest, I'm struggling to understand why this is so harmful, particularly on the girls' side. And if the concern is that kids are returning to summer league after a year in an NCAA program, then prohibit that- a strictly age-based rule won't do it. I (and plenty of other kids, I'm sure) was 18 until September of my sophomore year of college and could have competed even if you changed the age ranges.

There is a reason for that in team sports vs individual because there are positions on the court/in the field that need to be filled in team sports, as well as developing team chemistry, etc. None of those considerations come into play in swimming, it’s you against the clock. There is literally no reason for there to be kids who have aged out of a group swimming down. It’s a short season, set the cutoff date on August 1st or August 15th (to make sure all stars is complete) and be done with it. It’s so counterintuitive to have swim leagues that start Memorial Day and have an age up cutoff on June 1st as opposed to August at the end of the season. If the cutoff is august no one could complain about 13 year olds swimming in the 11-12 age group.

THIS, all of this.

[Anonymous]

God, what a bunch of whiners. There has to be a cutoff date. Good for some, bad for others. Oh well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you had kids age up on their birthday, this would just be YET ANOTHER awkward thing for kids who have summer birthdays to deal with.

My kid is still in elementary and doing summer swim is important to her in part because it allows her to celebrate her birthday with a friend group at swim. Seriously, that's like 70% of the reason she likes doing it. All her friends have always celebrated their birthdays during the school year, it's a big deal to younger kids in particular -- you go to school and everyone says happy birthday to you and when you are little your parents even send in cupcakes or something. You get to be the star of the day. For years my kid never got this and it mattered to her. And then in the summer often her friends would be traveling on her birthday so she had smaller parties. She noticed and while it's not like she had a big complex about it, it was one of the things in life that she just found unfair and was sad about.

Enter summer swim, which allows her to celebrate her birthday with her swim team and invite the team to her party and feel like she gets a special day. It's a big deal to her!

And now people want her to literally age out of her team on her birthday and move to a different team with people she may or may not know, because they are upset about rec swim league results and my kids "unfair advantage" because she is a couple months older than their kid? Really?

Y'all have the weirdest possible priorities. This is not even competitive swimming. Can you please just let kids enjoy their summer and have fun with their friends doing an activity they enjoy?

This is not some conspiracy by BIG SUMMER BIRTHDAY PARENTS. I truly do not care how my child does in competition -- she does summer swim for fun.

Ummm it’s summer swim, she doesn’t go to a different team, she is competing at the same meets as her friends but swimming in heats against the kids that are actually her age. This response was just as weirdly dramatic as the posts you’re railing against.

This makes sense.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s an interesting point. My son is a small 7 and he is racing against kids that turned 9 mid season. There is a huge difference between a 7 year old and a 9 year old in height, weight, strength.

Hang on…wait til your swimmer is 11 swimming against that kid when he’s 13.

You poor thing. Your 11 year old swimmer must not be very fast. My 11 year old swimmer can hold their own against the 13 year olds.

Gosh. You're an awful person. Get help.

Parents of kids with summer birthdays are used to always having their kid be the youngest. It happens over and over. It seems a bit ridiculous to hear the parents of kids with school year birthdays to suddenly get bent out of shape that their kid no longer has the advantage in just this one thing. They'll harp on and on about how redshirting is wrong and age cut offs must be respected. Or how after 1st grade it doesn't really matter that their kid is 12 months older, that doesn't give an advantage, their kid is just very athletic. Yet here there is just one June 1st cutoff--the only one I've ever heard of--and those same parents are up in arms. Well, welcome to how it feels. It's no different than my 8 yo being in basketball tryouts with almost 11 yos who have already hit puberty and have 40 lbs and 14 inches on her. (And in this case the disadvantage is only for the fun summer season, your kid can still do winter swim with age cutoffs. With basketball it's the same cutoff for rec, AAU and travel so she'll never have an opportunity to not be the very youngest.)

Yes, its this exactly that is rubbing me the wrong way. I have 2 summer bday kids (who are not club swimmers). When I first read this thread, I thought well I was not allowed to make excuses for my kids behavior in school "because they were the youngest" nor do I make excuses in all the other sports they participate in by grade level where redshirted kids are literally 3 years older than my kids. I just let them play the sport and strive to get better. I have one kid that is tiny and that kid is often 8-10 inches shorter than the other kids on the soccer field. They have had to learn over the years not to be afraid to get in there and mix it up with the bigger kids if they want to get the ball.

Let's be real, for most/all of our kids sports is a way to have fun, teach discipline and sportsmanship. This thread leaves a bad taste in my mouth about swim in general. I am so happy to watch my kids do the cheers, hang over lanes to encourage their friends and goof around between races (especially after 2 years of covid). Parents who are complaining about a random date, please don't ruin it for the rest of us.

I think what leaves a bad taste in my mouth is that the league used to age up on your birthday LIKE THE REST OF THE SPORT. But some parents that wanted to give an advantage to their summer birthday children (perhaps because as you have just complained your kid is the youngest, or they are up against redshirted kids 3 years older, etc) NOW wanted their kid to be the three year older kid crushing another. They intentionally gave them an advantage to disadvantage others. For swimmers that is tough, because swimming is all about the birthday and being FAIR. They took a fair system and made it unfair - and in some cases very unfair. A 19 year old D1 swimmer has no place coming back to summer, mixed age teams - should be the actual age, etc.

Please identify the 19 year old D1 swimmer. I have a hard time believing this is actually happening
https://www.mynvsl.com/leaders

This will probably be deleted, but the second place in Boys breast is coming off his Freshman year at Mt St Marys

I won’t out her by name, but my kid had a teammate this summer who also swam D1 last year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:God, what a bunch of whiners. There has to be a cutoff date. Good for some, bad for others. Oh well.

Make it Jan 1 so everyone is unhappy. Half the kids will be "too old" and half will be "too young." /s

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s an interesting point. My son is a small 7 and he is racing against kids that turned 9 mid season. There is a huge difference between a 7 year old and a 9 year old in height, weight, strength.

Hang on…wait til your swimmer is 11 swimming against that kid when he’s 13.

You poor thing. Your 11 year old swimmer must not be very fast. My 11 year old swimmer can hold their own against the 13 year olds.

Gosh. You're an awful person. Get help.

Parents of kids with summer birthdays are used to always having their kid be the youngest. It happens over and over. It seems a bit ridiculous to hear the parents of kids with school year birthdays to suddenly get bent out of shape that their kid no longer has the advantage in just this one thing. They'll harp on and on about how redshirting is wrong and age cut offs must be respected. Or how after 1st grade it doesn't really matter that their kid is 12 months older, that doesn't give an advantage, their kid is just very athletic. Yet here there is just one June 1st cutoff--the only one I've ever heard of--and those same parents are up in arms. Well, welcome to how it feels. It's no different than my 8 yo being in basketball tryouts with almost 11 yos who have already hit puberty and have 40 lbs and 14 inches on her. (And in this case the disadvantage is only for the fun summer season, your kid can still do winter swim with age cutoffs. With basketball it's the same cutoff for rec, AAU and travel so she'll never have an opportunity to not be the very youngest.)

Yes, its this exactly that is rubbing me the wrong way. I have 2 summer bday kids (who are not club swimmers). When I first read this thread, I thought well I was not allowed to make excuses for my kids behavior in school "because they were the youngest" nor do I make excuses in all the other sports they participate in by grade level where redshirted kids are literally 3 years older than my kids. I just let them play the sport and strive to get better. I have one kid that is tiny and that kid is often 8-10 inches shorter than the other kids on the soccer field. They have had to learn over the years not to be afraid to get in there and mix it up with the bigger kids if they want to get the ball.

Let's be real, for most/all of our kids sports is a way to have fun, teach discipline and sportsmanship. This thread leaves a bad taste in my mouth about swim in general. I am so happy to watch my kids do the cheers, hang over lanes to encourage their friends and goof around between races (especially after 2 years of covid). Parents who are complaining about a random date, please don't ruin it for the rest of us.

I think what leaves a bad taste in my mouth is that the league used to age up on your birthday LIKE THE REST OF THE SPORT. But some parents that wanted to give an advantage to their summer birthday children (perhaps because as you have just complained your kid is the youngest, or they are up against redshirted kids 3 years older, etc) NOW wanted their kid to be the three year older kid crushing another. They intentionally gave them an advantage to disadvantage others. For swimmers that is tough, because swimming is all about the birthday and being FAIR. They took a fair system and made it unfair - and in some cases very unfair. A 19 year old D1 swimmer has no place coming back to summer, mixed age teams - should be the actual age, etc.

Please identify the 19 year old D1 swimmer. I have a hard time believing this is actually happening
https://www.mynvsl.com/leaders

This will probably be deleted, but the second place in Boys breast is coming off his Freshman year at Mt St Marys

I won’t out her by name, but my kid had a teammate this summer who also swam D1 last year.

Oh who cares? If the swimmer was 18 at the start of the summer, let him/her have one last fun summer swimming with their old league. Why do you even care?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:God, what a bunch of whiners. There has to be a cutoff date. Good for some, bad for others. Oh well.

It’s so true there will be complaining either way but which complaint has more merit: there is a 13 year old competing against 11-12 year olds or there is a 13 year old who is competing against 13-14 year olds?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s an interesting point. My son is a small 7 and he is racing against kids that turned 9 mid season. There is a huge difference between a 7 year old and a 9 year old in height, weight, strength.

Hang on…wait til your swimmer is 11 swimming against that kid when he’s 13.

You poor thing. Your 11 year old swimmer must not be very fast. My 11 year old swimmer can hold their own against the 13 year olds.

Gosh. You're an awful person. Get help.

Parents of kids with summer birthdays are used to always having their kid be the youngest. It happens over and over. It seems a bit ridiculous to hear the parents of kids with school year birthdays to suddenly get bent out of shape that their kid no longer has the advantage in just this one thing. They'll harp on and on about how redshirting is wrong and age cut offs must be respected. Or how after 1st grade it doesn't really matter that their kid is 12 months older, that doesn't give an advantage, their kid is just very athletic. Yet here there is just one June 1st cutoff--the only one I've ever heard of--and those same parents are up in arms. Well, welcome to how it feels. It's no different than my 8 yo being in basketball tryouts with almost 11 yos who have already hit puberty and have 40 lbs and 14 inches on her. (And in this case the disadvantage is only for the fun summer season, your kid can still do winter swim with age cutoffs. With basketball it's the same cutoff for rec, AAU and travel so she'll never have an opportunity to not be the very youngest.)

Yes, its this exactly that is rubbing me the wrong way. I have 2 summer bday kids (who are not club swimmers). When I first read this thread, I thought well I was not allowed to make excuses for my kids behavior in school "because they were the youngest" nor do I make excuses in all the other sports they participate in by grade level where redshirted kids are literally 3 years older than my kids. I just let them play the sport and strive to get better. I have one kid that is tiny and that kid is often 8-10 inches shorter than the other kids on the soccer field. They have had to learn over the years not to be afraid to get in there and mix it up with the bigger kids if they want to get the ball.

Let's be real, for most/all of our kids sports is a way to have fun, teach discipline and sportsmanship. This thread leaves a bad taste in my mouth about swim in general. I am so happy to watch my kids do the cheers, hang over lanes to encourage their friends and goof around between races (especially after 2 years of covid). Parents who are complaining about a random date, please don't ruin it for the rest of us.

I think what leaves a bad taste in my mouth is that the league used to age up on your birthday LIKE THE REST OF THE SPORT. But some parents that wanted to give an advantage to their summer birthday children (perhaps because as you have just complained your kid is the youngest, or they are up against redshirted kids 3 years older, etc) NOW wanted their kid to be the three year older kid crushing another. They intentionally gave them an advantage to disadvantage others. For swimmers that is tough, because swimming is all about the birthday and being FAIR. They took a fair system and made it unfair - and in some cases very unfair. A 19 year old D1 swimmer has no place coming back to summer, mixed age teams - should be the actual age, etc.

Please identify the 19 year old D1 swimmer. I have a hard time believing this is actually happening
https://www.mynvsl.com/leaders

This will probably be deleted, but the second place in Boys breast is coming off his Freshman year at Mt St Marys

I won’t out her by name, but my kid had a teammate this summer who also swam D1 last year.

Oh who cares? If the swimmer was 18 at the start of the summer, let him/her have one last fun summer swimming with their old league. Why do you even care?

I don’t care. I was addressing a pp who demanded that people name names as if this never happens, because of course it does and it’s perfectly legit under league rules. Sorry if that wasn’t clear.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:God, what a bunch of whiners. There has to be a cutoff date. Good for some, bad for others. Oh well.

It’s so true there will be complaining either way but which complaint has more merit: there is a 13 year old competing against 11-12 year olds or there is a 13 year old who is competing against 13-14 year olds?

But this falls apart upon any close analysis.

Yes, an 11 year old might compete against a 13 year old. But not a just-turned 11 year old (who would wind up competing against younger kids). And the 13 yr old is a just-turned 13 yr old. So the idea that this is some massive age difference is silly. It's not. It's around 18 months. Just like if you aged up the kid on their birthday, they could be a just-turned 13 yr old competing against kids who are almost 15. Again -- about 18 months.

Meaning it doesn't matter. It's arbitrary and either way, you'll have kids who are 18+ months apart competing against each other. It will feel a little unfair to the younger kid and a little advantageous for the older kid (in some cases, plenty of kids are big or small for their age so it's not actually that clear cut), but it's not a huge deal. And it happens no matter where the cut offs are.

[Anonymous]

This whole thread is really the most ridiculous thing I’ve seen today. No matter where the cut off is, some kids will be old and some young. You get two years in your age group—one year you’re at the bottom, one year you’re at the top. The difference between a 10 year old who turns 11 in July and a 10 year old who turns 11 in November is nothing. Re-lax. Jeez. You’re all making me hate summer swim, which is hard.

[Anonymous]

My kid will be just 19 at all stars if he makes it that year. I give no farts if you babies whine about it. Oh, I redshirted too. No effs given.

[Anonymous]

My daughter’s birthday is June 1. So will she be aged up or down?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:God, what a bunch of whiners. There has to be a cutoff date. Good for some, bad for others. Oh well.

It’s so true there will be complaining either way but which complaint has more merit: there is a 13 year old competing against 11-12 year olds or there is a 13 year old who is competing against 13-14 year olds?

But this falls apart upon any close analysis.

Yes, an 11 year old might compete against a 13 year old. But not a just-turned 11 year old (who would wind up competing against younger kids). And the 13 yr old is a just-turned 13 yr old. So the idea that this is some massive age difference is silly. It's not. It's around 18 months. Just like if you aged up the kid on their birthday, they could be a just-turned 13 yr old competing against kids who are almost 15. Again -- about 18 months.

Meaning it doesn't matter. It's arbitrary and either way, you'll have kids who are 18+ months apart competing against each other. It will feel a little unfair to the younger kid and a little advantageous for the older kid (in some cases, plenty of kids are big or small for their age so it's not actually that clear cut), but it's not a huge deal. And it happens no matter where the cut offs are.

But at the end of the day age is age, and age isn’t arbitrary. If you are setting up competition groups in an individual sport by age, having an 11-12 age group with 13 year olds swimming in it is nonsensical. What is the point to having age groups in an individual sport if there are kids older than the age group competing in it?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My daughter’s birthday is June 1. So will she be aged up or down?

From the NVSL handbook, "The eligibility of a swimmer to compete in an age group shall be determined by his or her age on June 1 of the current year." If she turns 11 on June 1, she's 11 for summer swim. If she turns 11 on June 2, she's 10 by summer league rules.