APS Bell schedule review

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:APS should keep tweaks as minimal as possible while meeting their transportation goals. If they need to make large shifts in time for some schools, limit it to choice schools and programs.

Wholesale flipping around of start times would have far reaching implications beyond the school day, from those that have already been mentioned, to stresses on facility and sports scheduling- pools, fields, gyms, etc. MS and HS should end their school days earlier to give students time to both participate in extracurricular activities and still have time to get homework and studying completed. Not to mention that it allows older siblings to be available to care for younger ones or hold a desperately needed part time job.

Tweaks ok, massive shifts not.

I like how you just completely ignore the research on physical and mental health impact to teenagers of early school start times (especially the current middle school start time). I guess their needs don’t deserve consideration in your analysis?

Oh, I considered it. I also considered that teenagers could get plenty of sleep if they go to bed earlier. There’s nothing magical about later school start times- it’s about getting enough sleep, whether that happens at night or in the morning. I managed early school starts, as did all my schoolmates, my husband and his schoolmates, my kids currently, along with students all around the world. The problem is bad sleep hygiene, not school start times.

The way things work in highly-populated areas today, I disagree. If your school starts at 7:50 but your soccer game isn't until 8:00 pm, that's not just a matter of irresponsibly getting to bed on time to make sure you get sufficient sleep. No, not everyone is involved in sports and such. No, you don't have to participate in extracurriculars. BUt extracurriculars - especially physical ones - are increasingly important for multiple reasons: social connections, developing social skills, and most importantly for physical health in a society where even kids are mostly sedentary.

The problem there would be a soccer game scheduled at 8 pm on a school night for middle schoolers. Activities that start that late are not the norm.

Not to mention, most of our fields in Arlington do not have lights so you cannot have too many games that late. Kids that play on middle school teams wouldn’t be finished with school games until around 530/6 ( with a 4 PM school release time). So they likely would have to make a choice between school team and other teams. Not to mention, when does homework and dinner happen? I am personally torn. I would love for my kids to be able to sleep later but I think the crunch with getting out an hour and a half later is going to impact many families, teams (Ora rice and fame times), athletic field availability— which will trickle down to impacting elementary school field availability/activity availability as well.

Having to make a choice between a school team or another team? Oh the horror...

The kids wouldn’t have to choose. There would be no middle school sports if middle school started later. The fields, gyms, pools etc are all used by high school, club and rec sports by that time. The county needs the revenue from club and rec fees for maintenance. And some middle school coaches are also high school coaches. If middle schools end around 4pm, 100% middle school sports and many clubs/activities wouldn’t be offered.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It seems like such a wasted effort. No one was asking for a change.

OTOH the community has asked for lots of other changes like reading instruction, something academic that would actually benefit students, and that is the slowest process ever

This is my question. What's so terrible about the current system that warrants this process?

It's all about consolidating the bus routes and schedules. It has nothing to do with anything else, no matter what others might say or what types of response options are on the survey. It's about transportation efficiency. Period.

I think it's dual purpose: transportation efficiencies and following the myriad of studies recommending that MS and HS start later than most currently do

It’s not. The studies were not part of their stated goal. And, the first group of times they presented to committees all had middle schools starting early. It is clearly not an APS priority to flip middle and elem school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:APS should keep tweaks as minimal as possible while meeting their transportation goals. If they need to make large shifts in time for some schools, limit it to choice schools and programs.

Wholesale flipping around of start times would have far reaching implications beyond the school day, from those that have already been mentioned, to stresses on facility and sports scheduling- pools, fields, gyms, etc. MS and HS should end their school days earlier to give students time to both participate in extracurricular activities and still have time to get homework and studying completed. Not to mention that it allows older siblings to be available to care for younger ones or hold a desperately needed part time job.

Tweaks ok, massive shifts not.

I like how you just completely ignore the research on physical and mental health impact to teenagers of early school start times (especially the current middle school start time). I guess their needs don’t deserve consideration in your analysis?

Oh, I considered it. I also considered that teenagers could get plenty of sleep if they go to bed earlier. There’s nothing magical about later school start times- it’s about getting enough sleep, whether that happens at night or in the morning. I managed early school starts, as did all my schoolmates, my husband and his schoolmates, my kids currently, along with students all around the world. The problem is bad sleep hygiene, not school start times.

The way things work in highly-populated areas today, I disagree. If your school starts at 7:50 but your soccer game isn't until 8:00 pm, that's not just a matter of irresponsibly getting to bed on time to make sure you get sufficient sleep. No, not everyone is involved in sports and such. No, you don't have to participate in extracurriculars. BUt extracurriculars - especially physical ones - are increasingly important for multiple reasons: social connections, developing social skills, and most importantly for physical health in a society where even kids are mostly sedentary.

The problem there would be a soccer game scheduled at 8 pm on a school night for middle schoolers. Activities that start that late are not the norm.

Not to mention, most of our fields in Arlington do not have lights so you cannot have too many games that late. Kids that play on middle school teams wouldn’t be finished with school games until around 530/6 ( with a 4 PM school release time). So they likely would have to make a choice between school team and other teams. Not to mention, when does homework and dinner happen? I am personally torn. I would love for my kids to be able to sleep later but I think the crunch with getting out an hour and a half later is going to impact many families, teams (Ora rice and fame times), athletic field availability— which will trickle down to impacting elementary school field availability/activity availability as well.

Having to make a choice between a school team or another team? Oh the horror...

The kids wouldn’t have to choose. There would be no middle school sports if middle school started later. The fields, gyms, pools etc are all used by high school, club and rec sports by that time. The county needs the revenue from club and rec fees for maintenance. And some middle school coaches are also high school coaches. If middle schools end around 4pm, 100% middle school sports and many clubs/activities wouldn’t be offered.

Is this why Fairfax Co doesn’t have middle school sports?

[Anonymous]

Transportation and most specifically option school bussing is a huge resource suck. Option school busses can take up to an hour to run their route and are very expensive. End option school bussing or make it sliding scale based on ability to pay (like parks and rec). Even better, end the option schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Transportation and most specifically option school bussing is a huge resource suck. Option school busses can take up to an hour to run their route and are very expensive. End option school bussing or make it sliding scale based on ability to pay (like parks and rec). Even better, end the option schools.

They already went to a hub model for option school bussing this year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:APS should keep tweaks as minimal as possible while meeting their transportation goals. If they need to make large shifts in time for some schools, limit it to choice schools and programs.

Wholesale flipping around of start times would have far reaching implications beyond the school day, from those that have already been mentioned, to stresses on facility and sports scheduling- pools, fields, gyms, etc. MS and HS should end their school days earlier to give students time to both participate in extracurricular activities and still have time to get homework and studying completed. Not to mention that it allows older siblings to be available to care for younger ones or hold a desperately needed part time job.

Tweaks ok, massive shifts not.

I like how you just completely ignore the research on physical and mental health impact to teenagers of early school start times (especially the current middle school start time). I guess their needs don’t deserve consideration in your analysis?

Oh, I considered it. I also considered that teenagers could get plenty of sleep if they go to bed earlier. There’s nothing magical about later school start times- it’s about getting enough sleep, whether that happens at night or in the morning. I managed early school starts, as did all my schoolmates, my husband and his schoolmates, my kids currently, along with students all around the world. The problem is bad sleep hygiene, not school start times.

The way things work in highly-populated areas today, I disagree. If your school starts at 7:50 but your soccer game isn't until 8:00 pm, that's not just a matter of irresponsibly getting to bed on time to make sure you get sufficient sleep. No, not everyone is involved in sports and such. No, you don't have to participate in extracurriculars. BUt extracurriculars - especially physical ones - are increasingly important for multiple reasons: social connections, developing social skills, and most importantly for physical health in a society where even kids are mostly sedentary.

The problem there would be a soccer game scheduled at 8 pm on a school night for middle schoolers. Activities that start that late are not the norm.

Not to mention, most of our fields in Arlington do not have lights so you cannot have too many games that late. Kids that play on middle school teams wouldn’t be finished with school games until around 530/6 ( with a 4 PM school release time). So they likely would have to make a choice between school team and other teams. Not to mention, when does homework and dinner happen? I am personally torn. I would love for my kids to be able to sleep later but I think the crunch with getting out an hour and a half later is going to impact many families, teams (Ora rice and fame times), athletic field availability— which will trickle down to impacting elementary school field availability/activity availability as well.

Having to make a choice between a school team or another team? Oh the horror...

The kids wouldn’t have to choose. There would be no middle school sports if middle school started later. The fields, gyms, pools etc are all used by high school, club and rec sports by that time. The county needs the revenue from club and rec fees for maintenance. And some middle school coaches are also high school coaches. If middle schools end around 4pm, 100% middle school sports and many clubs/activities wouldn’t be offered.

Is this why Fairfax Co doesn’t have middle school sports?

No. Fairfax Middle Schools start at 7:30am. They have never had the same sports tradition they arlington has. They had intramural after school sports at their schools, just didn’t play against other schools like Arlington does. Maybe because they are further apart and don’t have buses available.

[Anonymous]

I do find it funny watching the middle school teachers met down about what an impossible schedule this is while elementary teachers have been doing it for years, often with young children who are so overtired by our 3:40 dismissal.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I do find it funny watching the middle school teachers met down about what an impossible schedule this is while elementary teachers have been doing it for years, often with young children who are so overtired by our 3:40 dismissal.

I don’t know why you find it funny that a relatively drastic change in schedule is problematic for people who often work two jobs. Many middle school teachers have a second job after school or help with clubs/sports that they can’t do if school gets out around 4. Elem and middle school teachers took these positions knowing the bell schedule. They planned their lives and incomes around the schedule. Same as elem school teachers nervous about what they are going to do with childcare at 7am when many pre-schools are already full for the fall. Just because middle school teachers have done it, doesn’t mean elem school teachers can do it without enough planning. I grew up here. These bell times have been fairly constant for 30 years. People knew going into the profession about what time they would work.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:


Is this why Fairfax Co doesn’t have middle school sports?



No. Fairfax Middle Schools start at 7:30am. They have never had the same sports tradition they arlington has. They had intramural after school sports at their schools, just didn’t play against other schools like Arlington does. Maybe because they are further apart and don’t have buses available.

Fairfax Middle Schools did start later than high schools until about 5 years ago. Then, they switched times with the high schools, who used to start first and now start second, with elementary schools still starting last. (They also share the same buses, like Arlington). During that process, some parents wanted elementary schools to start first due to childcare, but that would have meant that small children would have had to wait for buses in the dark in wintertime. Also, just as people here are discussing, people realized that moving middle school times later would interfere with after-school activities.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
I do find it funny watching the middle school teachers met down about what an impossible schedule this is while elementary teachers have been doing it for years, often with young children who are so overtired by our 3:40 dismissal.



I don’t know why you find it funny that a relatively drastic change in schedule is problematic for people who often work two jobs. Many middle school teachers have a second job after school or help with clubs/sports that they can’t do if school gets out around 4. Elem and middle school teachers took these positions knowing the bell schedule. They planned their lives and incomes around the schedule. Same as elem school teachers nervous about what they are going to do with childcare at 7am when many pre-schools are already full for the fall. Just because middle school teachers have done it, doesn’t mean elem school teachers can do it without enough planning. I grew up here. These bell times have been fairly constant for 30 years. People knew going into the profession about what time they would work.

+1 million
PP is ignorant as hell

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:APS should keep tweaks as minimal as possible while meeting their transportation goals. If they need to make large shifts in time for some schools, limit it to choice schools and programs.

Wholesale flipping around of start times would have far reaching implications beyond the school day, from those that have already been mentioned, to stresses on facility and sports scheduling- pools, fields, gyms, etc. MS and HS should end their school days earlier to give students time to both participate in extracurricular activities and still have time to get homework and studying completed. Not to mention that it allows older siblings to be available to care for younger ones or hold a desperately needed part time job.

Tweaks ok, massive shifts not.

I like how you just completely ignore the research on physical and mental health impact to teenagers of early school start times (especially the current middle school start time). I guess their needs don’t deserve consideration in your analysis?

Oh, I considered it. I also considered that teenagers could get plenty of sleep if they go to bed earlier. There’s nothing magical about later school start times- it’s about getting enough sleep, whether that happens at night or in the morning. I managed early school starts, as did all my schoolmates, my husband and his schoolmates, my kids currently, along with students all around the world. The problem is bad sleep hygiene, not school start times.

The way things work in highly-populated areas today, I disagree. If your school starts at 7:50 but your soccer game isn't until 8:00 pm, that's not just a matter of irresponsibly getting to bed on time to make sure you get sufficient sleep. No, not everyone is involved in sports and such. No, you don't have to participate in extracurriculars. BUt extracurriculars - especially physical ones - are increasingly important for multiple reasons: social connections, developing social skills, and most importantly for physical health in a society where even kids are mostly sedentary.

The problem there would be a soccer game scheduled at 8 pm on a school night for middle schoolers. Activities that start that late are not the norm.

Not to mention, most of our fields in Arlington do not have lights so you cannot have too many games that late. Kids that play on middle school teams wouldn’t be finished with school games until around 530/6 ( with a 4 PM school release time). So they likely would have to make a choice between school team and other teams. Not to mention, when does homework and dinner happen? I am personally torn. I would love for my kids to be able to sleep later but I think the crunch with getting out an hour and a half later is going to impact many families, teams (Ora rice and fame times), athletic field availability— which will trickle down to impacting elementary school field availability/activity availability as well.

Having to make a choice between a school team or another team? Oh the horror...

The kids wouldn’t have to choose. There would be no middle school sports if middle school started later. The fields, gyms, pools etc are all used by high school, club and rec sports by that time. The county needs the revenue from club and rec fees for maintenance. And some middle school coaches are also high school coaches. If middle schools end around 4pm, 100% middle school sports and many clubs/activities wouldn’t be offered.

Is this why Fairfax Co doesn’t have middle school sports?

No. Fairfax Middle Schools start at 7:30am. They have never had the same sports tradition they arlington has. They had intramural after school sports at their schools, just didn’t play against other schools like Arlington does. Maybe because they are further apart and don’t have buses available.

Intramural middle schools sports is sufficient. That can continue with a later start and end time. If a lot of MS coaches also coach HS, then perhaps HSs should start doing more recruiting for coaches. Or vice versa.

[Anonymous]

The current bell schedules are fine, except for that stupid 9 am start for some elementary schools. That was the biggest PITA when my kid was at Science Focus. I had to pay a lot of money every month just to drop my kid off at a time when other elementary schools were already in session, as I had to do drop off and pick up and still commute and put in 8 hours at a job, which meant I had to pay for full aftercare anyway. Especially since the kid was up at the crack of dawn anyway. I’m loving the early morning middle school start, as we still don’t get a bus and I can now be at my desk by 8am and can be home by 4:30.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I do find it funny watching the middle school teachers met down about what an impossible schedule this is while elementary teachers have been doing it for years, often with young children who are so overtired by our 3:40 dismissal.



I don’t know why you find it funny that a relatively drastic change in schedule is problematic for people who often work two jobs. Many middle school teachers have a second job after school or help with clubs/sports that they can’t do if school gets out around 4. Elem and middle school teachers took these positions knowing the bell schedule. They planned their lives and incomes around the schedule. Same as elem school teachers nervous about what they are going to do with childcare at 7am when many pre-schools are already full for the fall. Just because middle school teachers have done it, doesn’t mean elem school teachers can do it without enough planning. I grew up here. These bell times have been fairly constant for 30 years. People knew going into the profession about what time they would work.

+1 million
PP is ignorant as hell

Seriously? Sorry, I'm not buying it. Teachers go into teaching for whatever reasons; but they take the job they can get that best suits them. Yeah, sure, they're used to their existing schedules and such; but if you're trying to convince people MS teachers can't do a schedule ES teachers do, you're not convincing me. ES teachers can also have a second job or help with after-school activities.

And "people going into the profession" do not know where they're going to be teaching or what that school or school system's bell schedules are beforehand. Bell schedules are not the same everywhere and graduating teachers-to-be don't know where they're going to end up. Like any profession, you can't always be too choosey and you take what you can and work your way through your career to more desirable situations.

Yes, some teachers might have a drastic change to their schedules after this. But you don't make decisions like this just because it's what everyone is used to. APS shouldn't be implementing this next year - that's the consideration they should give staff and parents both who will have to re-arrange logistics.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The current bell schedules are fine, except for that stupid 9 am start for some elementary schools. That was the biggest PITA when my kid was at Science Focus. I had to pay a lot of money every month just to drop my kid off at a time when other elementary schools were already in session, as I had to do drop off and pick up and still commute and put in 8 hours at a job, which meant I had to pay for full aftercare anyway. Especially since the kid was up at the crack of dawn anyway. I’m loving the early morning middle school start, as we still don’t get a bus and I can now be at my desk by 8am and can be home by 4:30.

So sorry you had to endure that, and so glad that things come around so now everything is honky-dory for you. Other people have to manage and adapt, too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I do find it funny watching the middle school teachers met down about what an impossible schedule this is while elementary teachers have been doing it for years, often with young children who are so overtired by our 3:40 dismissal.



I don’t know why you find it funny that a relatively drastic change in schedule is problematic for people who often work two jobs. Many middle school teachers have a second job after school or help with clubs/sports that they can’t do if school gets out around 4. Elem and middle school teachers took these positions knowing the bell schedule. They planned their lives and incomes around the schedule. Same as elem school teachers nervous about what they are going to do with childcare at 7am when many pre-schools are already full for the fall. Just because middle school teachers have done it, doesn’t mean elem school teachers can do it without enough planning. I grew up here. These bell times have been fairly constant for 30 years. People knew going into the profession about what time they would work.

+1 million
PP is ignorant as hell

Another reason this change, if it happens, should wait until the 23/34 school year.