APS Bell schedule review

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ugh I do not want to go from a 9 a.m. start to 7:40!!! Then they get out extremely early. Not every elementary age kid wakes up at the crack of dawn. Ours don't.

I don't see how APS could possibly move all elementary schools to a time that is earlier than any of them currently start?!?

At this point we actually don’t know what they are planning. They could move all elementary schools to 9am start. They haven’t released details

They're going to do whatever results in the fewest buses and greatest transportation "efficiency." That's their purpose and goal, anyway.[/quote]

THIS! Let's not kid ourselves that they are taking into consideration what is optimal for parents or children. It is about busing and gaining the most efficiency.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ugh I do not want to go from a 9 a.m. start to 7:40!!! Then they get out extremely early. Not every elementary age kid wakes up at the crack of dawn. Ours don't.

I don't see how APS could possibly move all elementary schools to a time that is earlier than any of them currently start?!?

At this point we actually don’t know what they are planning. They could move all elementary schools to 9am start. They haven’t released details

They're going to do whatever results in the fewest buses and greatest transportation "efficiency." That's their purpose and goal, anyway.

THIS! Let's not kid ourselves that they are taking into consideration what is optimal for parents or children. It is about busing and gaining the most efficiency.

And what’s wrong with efficiency? That’s good for everyone from the past issues we’ve had the scheduling due to the crazy multiple routes, cost efficiencies, school timing efficiencies, it’s a win-win. However as a parent you should be aware of the other benefits of having elementary going earlier.

[Anonymous]

I was the PP poster who stated it was about efficiency. I don't think there is a problem with that at all. I was trying to point out that people spend tons of energy debating what is best for families or children while I don't think APS is really considering that. The reason for the study is busing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I was the PP poster who stated it was about efficiency. I don't think there is a problem with that at all. I was trying to point out that people spend tons of energy debating what is best for families or children while I don't think APS is really considering that. The reason for the study is busing.

I'm the PP who posted the initial comment about efficiency that PP responded to. EXACTLY!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I was the PP poster who stated it was about efficiency. I don't think there is a problem with that at all. I was trying to point out that people spend tons of energy debating what is best for families or children while I don't think APS is really considering that. The reason for the study is busing.

+1 and I think it's great. They will piss off people no matter what they do, they may as well make it more efficient. APS has been having lots of trouble with dissatisfaction in their transportation department, I hope this makes things better for them too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Actually, flipping elementary school and middle school would be great. If you look at the rhythms of sleep for kids, as they start to go with puberty in middle school it’s important for them to have more sleep. So if you had elementary start at 7:40, middle at nine, it would work better. especially since middle school kids don’t have to work after school like high school kids.

I'd love this as a morning person and Pre-K teacher. My students are so tired by 3, late start schools are rough for some little kids!

I’m not sure how this would be beneficial though— most parents with kids work and so the vast majority of kids would be in aftercare. I can’t imagine the kids getting out at 2:30 on normal days, and 11 on early release. They would be in aftercare until 5 for most kids, that’s a really long day. Middle and highschool come home more or less independently. Also they say that elementary school has to be the latest because of an adult isn’t there to meet a child, they have to take them back to school. Can’t do that if there’s another route after.

First, all early release days should be eliminated entirely. They are a waste for everyone.
Second, kids are either going to be in before-school care or extended day after school. Why not just have extended day instead of both? Schools weren't created for the convenience of parents. THey were created to educate the populace. Parents are just going to have to figure out alternatives. It takes a village.

So there is limited space for extended day. Having kids get home at 2:30 would mean nearly everyone would need extended day. Leaving work at 3:00 to pick up at a bus stop at 3:40 is feasible, leaving at 1:50 to meet your kids at the bus at 2:30 is not feasible for most people who work full time. Aps extended day only has room for about 20% of students that age. Remember how hard it was to get into extended day pre-pandemic? There either needs to be a significant expansion of extended day, or there would need to be many more aftercare options than what currently exists.
Also my kids middle school bus picks up at 7:05. She has to wake up at 6 in order to have enough time to get ready and to eat breakfast. I would hate having to get my elementary school kids on a bus at 7:15 (which would be the shifted equivalent of their current bus — they get picked up at 8:35 for a 9:00 start). Kids get up early but that is really early! And elementary is for 6 years! They had middle school start at the earliest time because it’s the shortest length you are at one school.
Not to mention that you didn’t address the fact that elementary school bus drivers have to take kids back to their school if they aren’t met by an adult. How do you do that if they have middle and high school routes right after?

Again, the schools that already operate on that schedule manage just fine, some have extended day waitlists and others don't. This year extended day enrollment is down and I think it's reasonable to expect it to be lower than pre-pandemic as more people are on permanent telework.

No elementary school starts at 7:40. The earliest is 8 (three schools) and 8:20 (another three schools). 8 would be ok— bus pick up for most people would be after 7:20. Having bus pick up before 7:20 is not pleasant, most people drive so their kid can get another 10-15 minutes sleep. That kind of eliminates the point— for traffic reasons they want people taking the bus— and elementary school is twice as long as middle school.
For me personally, it would be pretty nice. Shifting my morning schedule to wake up at 5:30 so the kids can make the bus at 7:03 has been really tough for my sleeping patterns. I realized this morning im going to have someone in middle school for the next 8 years! If you shift elementary school to be the early ones, at least I’ll be able to sleep in in five years!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Actually, flipping elementary school and middle school would be great. If you look at the rhythms of sleep for kids, as they start to go with puberty in middle school it’s important for them to have more sleep. So if you had elementary start at 7:40, middle at nine, it would work better. especially since middle school kids don’t have to work after school like high school kids.

I'd love this as a morning person and Pre-K teacher. My students are so tired by 3, late start schools are rough for some little kids!

I’m not sure how this would be beneficial though— most parents with kids work and so the vast majority of kids would be in aftercare. I can’t imagine the kids getting out at 2:30 on normal days, and 11 on early release. They would be in aftercare until 5 for most kids, that’s a really long day. Middle and highschool come home more or less independently. Also they say that elementary school has to be the latest because of an adult isn’t there to meet a child, they have to take them back to school. Can’t do that if there’s another route after.

First, all early release days should be eliminated entirely. They are a waste for everyone.
Second, kids are either going to be in before-school care or extended day after school. Why not just have extended day instead of both? Schools weren't created for the convenience of parents. THey were created to educate the populace. Parents are just going to have to figure out alternatives. It takes a village.

So there is limited space for extended day. Having kids get home at 2:30 would mean nearly everyone would need extended day. Leaving work at 3:00 to pick up at a bus stop at 3:40 is feasible, leaving at 1:50 to meet your kids at the bus at 2:30 is not feasible for most people who work full time. Aps extended day only has room for about 20% of students that age. Remember how hard it was to get into extended day pre-pandemic? There either needs to be a significant expansion of extended day, or there would need to be many more aftercare options than what currently exists.
Also my kids middle school bus picks up at 7:05. She has to wake up at 6 in order to have enough time to get ready and to eat breakfast. I would hate having to get my elementary school kids on a bus at 7:15 (which would be the shifted equivalent of their current bus — they get picked up at 8:35 for a 9:00 start). Kids get up early but that is really early! And elementary is for 6 years! They had middle school start at the earliest time because it’s the shortest length you are at one school.
Not to mention that you didn’t address the fact that elementary school bus drivers have to take kids back to their school if they aren’t met by an adult. How do you do that if they have middle and high school routes right after?

Again, the schools that already operate on that schedule manage just fine, some have extended day waitlists and others don't. This year extended day enrollment is down and I think it's reasonable to expect it to be lower than pre-pandemic as more people are on permanent telework.

No elementary school starts at 7:40. The earliest is 8 (three schools) and 8:20 (another three schools). 8 would be ok— bus pick up for most people would be after 7:20. Having bus pick up before 7:20 is not pleasant, most people drive so their kid can get another 10-15 minutes sleep. That kind of eliminates the point— for traffic reasons they want people taking the bus— and elementary school is twice as long as middle school.
For me personally, it would be pretty nice. Shifting my morning schedule to wake up at 5:30 so the kids can make the bus at 7:03 has been really tough for my sleeping patterns. I realized this morning im going to have someone in middle school for the next 8 years! If you shift elementary school to be the early ones, at least I’ll be able to sleep in in five years!

Try shortening your morning routine! My middle schoolers wakes up 20 min before he needs to leave. The girls next door wake up 17 minutes before. A parent waking up at 5:30 for a child to make a 7:03 bus seems overkill, unless you are working/working out. And we do drive like you say (carpooling w neighbors), so our kids don’t leave until 7:38. It ridiculous that the bus comes 45 minutes before they have to be at their desks and the school is less than 2 miles away.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Actually, flipping elementary school and middle school would be great. If you look at the rhythms of sleep for kids, as they start to go with puberty in middle school it’s important for them to have more sleep. So if you had elementary start at 7:40, middle at nine, it would work better. especially since middle school kids don’t have to work after school like high school kids.

I'd love this as a morning person and Pre-K teacher. My students are so tired by 3, late start schools are rough for some little kids!

I’m not sure how this would be beneficial though— most parents with kids work and so the vast majority of kids would be in aftercare. I can’t imagine the kids getting out at 2:30 on normal days, and 11 on early release. They would be in aftercare until 5 for most kids, that’s a really long day. Middle and highschool come home more or less independently. Also they say that elementary school has to be the latest because of an adult isn’t there to meet a child, they have to take them back to school. Can’t do that if there’s another route after.

First, all early release days should be eliminated entirely. They are a waste for everyone.
Second, kids are either going to be in before-school care or extended day after school. Why not just have extended day instead of both? Schools weren't created for the convenience of parents. THey were created to educate the populace. Parents are just going to have to figure out alternatives. It takes a village.

So there is limited space for extended day. Having kids get home at 2:30 would mean nearly everyone would need extended day. Leaving work at 3:00 to pick up at a bus stop at 3:40 is feasible, leaving at 1:50 to meet your kids at the bus at 2:30 is not feasible for most people who work full time. Aps extended day only has room for about 20% of students that age. Remember how hard it was to get into extended day pre-pandemic? There either needs to be a significant expansion of extended day, or there would need to be many more aftercare options than what currently exists.
Also my kids middle school bus picks up at 7:05. She has to wake up at 6 in order to have enough time to get ready and to eat breakfast. I would hate having to get my elementary school kids on a bus at 7:15 (which would be the shifted equivalent of their current bus — they get picked up at 8:35 for a 9:00 start). Kids get up early but that is really early! And elementary is for 6 years! They had middle school start at the earliest time because it’s the shortest length you are at one school.
Not to mention that you didn’t address the fact that elementary school bus drivers have to take kids back to their school if they aren’t met by an adult. How do you do that if they have middle and high school routes right after?

Again, the schools that already operate on that schedule manage just fine, some have extended day waitlists and others don't. This year extended day enrollment is down and I think it's reasonable to expect it to be lower than pre-pandemic as more people are on permanent telework.

No elementary school starts at 7:40. The earliest is 8 (three schools) and 8:20 (another three schools). 8 would be ok— bus pick up for most people would be after 7:20. Having bus pick up before 7:20 is not pleasant, most people drive so their kid can get another 10-15 minutes sleep. That kind of eliminates the point— for traffic reasons they want people taking the bus— and elementary school is twice as long as middle school.
For me personally, it would be pretty nice. Shifting my morning schedule to wake up at 5:30 so the kids can make the bus at 7:03 has been really tough for my sleeping patterns. I realized this morning im going to have someone in middle school for the next 8 years! If you shift elementary school to be the early ones, at least I’ll be able to sleep in in five years!

No, “most “parents do not drive to give their kids an extra 20 minutes of sleep. Hello privilege.

[Anonymous]

Later high school end time would seriously impact athletic practices and other extracurricular activities.

[Anonymous]

I thought the reason we have the multiple start times is because they are trying to get as many runs out of each bus (right now, I think 3 routes in the morning and 3 routes in the afternoon is the max that any bus can do). How does consolidating start times help this? Wouldn't you need even more buses if all elementary schools start around the same time?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Actually, flipping elementary school and middle school would be great. If you look at the rhythms of sleep for kids, as they start to go with puberty in middle school it’s important for them to have more sleep. So if you had elementary start at 7:40, middle at nine, it would work better. especially since middle school kids don’t have to work after school like high school kids.

I'd love this as a morning person and Pre-K teacher. My students are so tired by 3, late start schools are rough for some little kids!

I’m not sure how this would be beneficial though— most parents with kids work and so the vast majority of kids would be in aftercare. I can’t imagine the kids getting out at 2:30 on normal days, and 11 on early release. They would be in aftercare until 5 for most kids, that’s a really long day. Middle and highschool come home more or less independently. Also they say that elementary school has to be the latest because of an adult isn’t there to meet a child, they have to take them back to school. Can’t do that if there’s another route after.

First, all early release days should be eliminated entirely. They are a waste for everyone.
Second, kids are either going to be in before-school care or extended day after school. Why not just have extended day instead of both? Schools weren't created for the convenience of parents. THey were created to educate the populace. Parents are just going to have to figure out alternatives. It takes a village.

So there is limited space for extended day. Having kids get home at 2:30 would mean nearly everyone would need extended day. Leaving work at 3:00 to pick up at a bus stop at 3:40 is feasible, leaving at 1:50 to meet your kids at the bus at 2:30 is not feasible for most people who work full time. Aps extended day only has room for about 20% of students that age. Remember how hard it was to get into extended day pre-pandemic? There either needs to be a significant expansion of extended day, or there would need to be many more aftercare options than what currently exists.
Also my kids middle school bus picks up at 7:05. She has to wake up at 6 in order to have enough time to get ready and to eat breakfast. I would hate having to get my elementary school kids on a bus at 7:15 (which would be the shifted equivalent of their current bus — they get picked up at 8:35 for a 9:00 start). Kids get up early but that is really early! And elementary is for 6 years! They had middle school start at the earliest time because it’s the shortest length you are at one school.
Not to mention that you didn’t address the fact that elementary school bus drivers have to take kids back to their school if they aren’t met by an adult. How do you do that if they have middle and high school routes right after?

Again, the schools that already operate on that schedule manage just fine, some have extended day waitlists and others don't. This year extended day enrollment is down and I think it's reasonable to expect it to be lower than pre-pandemic as more people are on permanent telework.

No elementary school starts at 7:40. The earliest is 8 (three schools) and 8:20 (another three schools). 8 would be ok— bus pick up for most people would be after 7:20. Having bus pick up before 7:20 is not pleasant, most people drive so their kid can get another 10-15 minutes sleep. That kind of eliminates the point— for traffic reasons they want people taking the bus— and elementary school is twice as long as middle school.
For me personally, it would be pretty nice. Shifting my morning schedule to wake up at 5:30 so the kids can make the bus at 7:03 has been really tough for my sleeping patterns. I realized this morning im going to have someone in middle school for the next 8 years! If you shift elementary school to be the early ones, at least I’ll be able to sleep in in five years!

No, “most “parents do not drive to give their kids an extra 20 minutes of sleep. Hello privilege.

There are over 60 kids at my middle schoolers bus stop for the afternoon. There are 8 in the morning. We live over two miles from school so they likely aren’t walking. I walked her to the bus when it was still dark when they were picking up, so I know how empty that morning bus is.
To the other poster who says I get up too early— I have to get her up at 6 in order for her to leave the house by 6:45 (which is the time she must leave the house by in order to not miss the bus). We have tried her leaving later but the walk is 10-14 minutes depending on street lights, and her bus usually picks up a few minutes early, so she’s missed it any times she’s left later. She showers in the morning, which is why it takes her a while to get ready. Either way, I don’t think that these people pushing for earlier start times realize how early it ends up being!

[Anonymous]

People will complain no matter what. I remember when APS did the big switch in the early 2000s. My high school started at 730am but switched with the middle schools for a later start time. Parents pushed for more sleep for high schoolers and now they are suggesting another bell schedule switch. It seems that no matter what they do, someone will be upset.

[Anonymous]

I would drive my kid to give myself an extra 20 minutes of sleep.

[Anonymous]

Well, the parent bell schedule survey is...pathetic. At least for elementary.

I don't think there is any good reason to start elementary school later than my school's start time of 9am and yet there is no option for "none of the above" and the question requires an answer.

So...which flawed answers will they consider valid as they search for a pre-determined answer?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Well, the parent bell schedule survey is...pathetic. At least for elementary.

I don't think there is any good reason to start elementary school later than my school's start time of 9am and yet there is no option for "none of the above" and the question requires an answer.

So...which flawed answers will they consider valid as they search for a pre-determined answer?

Agreed. It is awful. A mandatory response for every question, even though I don't agree with any of the options! And how am I supposed to answer a survey on start times that doesn't tell me which group my kid's elementary school is in?!?

Pointless.