APS Bell schedule review

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:quick question - how would the a later MS time impact those 8th graders that may make a high school JV sports team?

I'm in favor of a later time for my middle schooler but he is also very active after school in activities (at school) and outside school. He loves it and he NEEDS all the physical activity he can get.

If middle school got out later, they would not be able to participate in most high school sports. Practices would start before middle school ends. And little to no middle school sports would be an option.

You do not know this to be true. We don’t know what other changes would come out of shifting bell times.

+1 If bell times change, everything else will adjust to that! Extracurricular schedules are beholden to school schedules, not the other way around.

There is limited field/gym/pool space. It is logistically to have middle school sports if they get out after high schools. Period.

I'm just not understanding this argument. Other than 8th graders playing on the hs teams and any swimming that might occur, do all middle school sports have to use the high school facilities? TJ and Kenmore, at least, have tennis courts and fields available on-site. If other schools use county parks for the courts, that doesn't interfere with high school. And maybe some sports could just meet before school instead of after, if they're that critical.

Same with Williamsburg… Soccer, basketball, wrestling, track, ultimate, cheerleading, etc. all done at the school. I think swimming/dive is the one really impacted.

Middle school sports are from roughly 3-4pm. After that many middle school gyms and fields are used by high school and club teams. High schools do not have enough space for their own teams. Parks and Rec need the revenue from club teams to make budget. If middle school gets out around 4pm, there are not fields/gyms/pools for them to use.

I’m not disputing what you’re saying, but could you give a specific example of Arlington middle school fields used for high school? For various reasons we are at certain middle school field several times a week and I don’t see any high school sports going on. Lots of travel sports teams practicing.

From my experience, high school teams use middle school gyms - 6 high school basketball teams plus cheer and dance don’t fit in the high school gym space. Then club and rec teams use the middle school gyms. Club/travel teams use the fields and pools. I do not know the high school field sport practice schedule. As you say, lots of travel teams use the fields who pay a lot of money for the fields. DPR can’t afford to kick them out. Same for the fees the club swim teams pay for the pools. That income is needed for the maintainer budgets. Middle school sports are free.

Whether middle school sports are needed/valuable is a different question. But I do not believe the space is available for them to operate after 4pm.

SIX basketball teams? What high school has six basketball teams?
I don't know about WL; but both YHS and WHS have two gyms. Cheer and dance could use alternative spaces - I've seen YHS' winterguard practice in YHS' atrium when the gymnasiums are not available. If 20 kids can spin and toss flags and rifles and dance there, surely cheer or dance can manage some practice there or other spaces?

As for non-APS teams being essential for the income, that's the County's problem. APS facilities have shared-use agreements; but priority should be given to school groups.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My high schooler’s soccer practice is at WMS. That field is always busy, from the time school lets out to dark. No lights once it’s dark. Lack of field lights is one more limiting factor to enough field time for everyone.

The surrounding neighborhood pushed back against lights at Williamsburg, as they didn't want to bring "the wrong crowd" (ie, south arlington minorities who tend to use lighted fields later at night a lot.)
Neighborhood around O'connell also pushed back against lights at O'Connell (yes, I know that's not APS). Point being, it seems to be a lot of north arlington folks complaining about limited field availability; yet north arlington folks also tend to prohibit lights at the fields.

Regardless, if middle school doesn't start until 9:00, then perhaps something could use those fields before school instead of after....like a middle school team.

Lol

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:quick question - how would the a later MS time impact those 8th graders that may make a high school JV sports team?

I'm in favor of a later time for my middle schooler but he is also very active after school in activities (at school) and outside school. He loves it and he NEEDS all the physical activity he can get.

If middle school got out later, they would not be able to participate in most high school sports. Practices would start before middle school ends. And little to no middle school sports would be an option.

You do not know this to be true. We don’t know what other changes would come out of shifting bell times.

+1 If bell times change, everything else will adjust to that! Extracurricular schedules are beholden to school schedules, not the other way around.

There is limited field/gym/pool space. It is logistically to have middle school sports if they get out after high schools. Period.

I'm just not understanding this argument. Other than 8th graders playing on the hs teams and any swimming that might occur, do all middle school sports have to use the high school facilities? TJ and Kenmore, at least, have tennis courts and fields available on-site. If other schools use county parks for the courts, that doesn't interfere with high school. And maybe some sports could just meet before school instead of after, if they're that critical.

Same with Williamsburg… Soccer, basketball, wrestling, track, ultimate, cheerleading, etc. all done at the school. I think swimming/dive is the one really impacted.

Middle school sports are from roughly 3-4pm. After that many middle school gyms and fields are used by high school and club teams. High schools do not have enough space for their own teams. Parks and Rec need the revenue from club teams to make budget. If middle school gets out around 4pm, there are not fields/gyms/pools for them to use.

I’m not disputing what you’re saying, but could you give a specific example of Arlington middle school fields used for high school? For various reasons we are at certain middle school field several times a week and I don’t see any high school sports going on. Lots of travel sports teams practicing.

From my experience, high school teams use middle school gyms - 6 high school basketball teams plus cheer and dance don’t fit in the high school gym space. Then club and rec teams use the middle school gyms. Club/travel teams use the fields and pools. I do not know the high school field sport practice schedule. As you say, lots of travel teams use the fields who pay a lot of money for the fields. DPR can’t afford to kick them out. Same for the fees the club swim teams pay for the pools. That income is needed for the maintainer budgets. Middle school sports are free.

Whether middle school sports are needed/valuable is a different question. But I do not believe the space is available for them to operate after 4pm.

SIX basketball teams? What high school has six basketball teams?
I don't know about WL; but both YHS and WHS have two gyms. Cheer and dance could use alternative spaces - I've seen YHS' winterguard practice in YHS' atrium when the gymnasiums are not available. If 20 kids can spin and toss flags and rifles and dance there, surely cheer or dance can manage some practice there or other spaces?

As for non-APS teams being essential for the income, that's the County's problem. APS facilities have shared-use agreements; but priority should be given to school groups.

Well, one thing is clear- changing school start times by much for middle and high schools would really f&@# up a lot of schedules and eliminate many opportunities for sport and club participation.

[Anonymous]

basketball teams: Boys varsity, JV, freshman, Girls Varsity, JV, freshman. 6 teams.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:quick question - how would the a later MS time impact those 8th graders that may make a high school JV sports team?

I'm in favor of a later time for my middle schooler but he is also very active after school in activities (at school) and outside school. He loves it and he NEEDS all the physical activity he can get.

If middle school got out later, they would not be able to participate in most high school sports. Practices would start before middle school ends. And little to no middle school sports would be an option.

You do not know this to be true. We don’t know what other changes would come out of shifting bell times.

+1 If bell times change, everything else will adjust to that! Extracurricular schedules are beholden to school schedules, not the other way around.

There is limited field/gym/pool space. It is logistically to have middle school sports if they get out after high schools. Period.

I'm just not understanding this argument. Other than 8th graders playing on the hs teams and any swimming that might occur, do all middle school sports have to use the high school facilities? TJ and Kenmore, at least, have tennis courts and fields available on-site. If other schools use county parks for the courts, that doesn't interfere with high school. And maybe some sports could just meet before school instead of after, if they're that critical.

Same with Williamsburg… Soccer, basketball, wrestling, track, ultimate, cheerleading, etc. all done at the school. I think swimming/dive is the one really impacted.

Middle school sports are from roughly 3-4pm. After that many middle school gyms and fields are used by high school and club teams. High schools do not have enough space for their own teams. Parks and Rec need the revenue from club teams to make budget. If middle school gets out around 4pm, there are not fields/gyms/pools for them to use.

I’m not disputing what you’re saying, but could you give a specific example of Arlington middle school fields used for high school? For various reasons we are at certain middle school field several times a week and I don’t see any high school sports going on. Lots of travel sports teams practicing.

From my experience, high school teams use middle school gyms - 6 high school basketball teams plus cheer and dance don’t fit in the high school gym space. Then club and rec teams use the middle school gyms. Club/travel teams use the fields and pools. I do not know the high school field sport practice schedule. As you say, lots of travel teams use the fields who pay a lot of money for the fields. DPR can’t afford to kick them out. Same for the fees the club swim teams pay for the pools. That income is needed for the maintainer budgets. Middle school sports are free.

Whether middle school sports are needed/valuable is a different question. But I do not believe the space is available for them to operate after 4pm.

SIX basketball teams? What high school has six basketball teams?
I don't know about WL; but both YHS and WHS have two gyms. Cheer and dance could use alternative spaces - I've seen YHS' winterguard practice in YHS' atrium when the gymnasiums are not available. If 20 kids can spin and toss flags and rifles and dance there, surely cheer or dance can manage some practice there or other spaces?

As for non-APS teams being essential for the income, that's the County's problem. APS facilities have shared-use agreements; but priority should be given to school groups.

See above for the 6 teams. All APS comprehensive high schools have 6 teams plus wrestling, dance and multiple levels of cheer. They usually have 3 practice slots per gym per day so some teams need somewhere else to practice. And no, you can’t tell the cheer and dance athletes that while they are considered athletes and perform and compete on courts that they need to practice in the cafeteria.

And no, the budget is not just the county’s problem. APS can’t afford to maintain the fields/gyms/pools. The fees the county receives through club sports, parks and rec classes etc are what pay for the maintenance so that the student-athletes can use them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:quick question - how would the a later MS time impact those 8th graders that may make a high school JV sports team?

I'm in favor of a later time for my middle schooler but he is also very active after school in activities (at school) and outside school. He loves it and he NEEDS all the physical activity he can get.

If middle school got out later, they would not be able to participate in most high school sports. Practices would start before middle school ends. And little to no middle school sports would be an option.

You do not know this to be true. We don’t know what other changes would come out of shifting bell times.

+1 If bell times change, everything else will adjust to that! Extracurricular schedules are beholden to school schedules, not the other way around.

There is limited field/gym/pool space. It is logistically to have middle school sports if they get out after high schools. Period.

I'm just not understanding this argument. Other than 8th graders playing on the hs teams and any swimming that might occur, do all middle school sports have to use the high school facilities? TJ and Kenmore, at least, have tennis courts and fields available on-site. If other schools use county parks for the courts, that doesn't interfere with high school. And maybe some sports could just meet before school instead of after, if they're that critical.

Same with Williamsburg… Soccer, basketball, wrestling, track, ultimate, cheerleading, etc. all done at the school. I think swimming/dive is the one really impacted.

Middle school sports are from roughly 3-4pm. After that many middle school gyms and fields are used by high school and club teams. High schools do not have enough space for their own teams. Parks and Rec need the revenue from club teams to make budget. If middle school gets out around 4pm, there are not fields/gyms/pools for them to use.

I’m not disputing what you’re saying, but could you give a specific example of Arlington middle school fields used for high school? For various reasons we are at certain middle school field several times a week and I don’t see any high school sports going on. Lots of travel sports teams practicing.

From my experience, high school teams use middle school gyms - 6 high school basketball teams plus cheer and dance don’t fit in the high school gym space. Then club and rec teams use the middle school gyms. Club/travel teams use the fields and pools. I do not know the high school field sport practice schedule. As you say, lots of travel teams use the fields who pay a lot of money for the fields. DPR can’t afford to kick them out. Same for the fees the club swim teams pay for the pools. That income is needed for the maintainer budgets. Middle school sports are free.

Whether middle school sports are needed/valuable is a different question. But I do not believe the space is available for them to operate after 4pm.

SIX basketball teams? What high school has six basketball teams?
I don't know about WL; but both YHS and WHS have two gyms. Cheer and dance could use alternative spaces - I've seen YHS' winterguard practice in YHS' atrium when the gymnasiums are not available. If 20 kids can spin and toss flags and rifles and dance there, surely cheer or dance can manage some practice there or other spaces?

As for non-APS teams being essential for the income, that's the County's problem. APS facilities have shared-use agreements; but priority should be given to school groups.

See above for the 6 teams. All APS comprehensive high schools have 6 teams plus wrestling, dance and multiple levels of cheer. They usually have 3 practice slots per gym per day so some teams need somewhere else to practice. And no, you can’t tell the cheer and dance athletes that while they are considered athletes and perform and compete on courts that they need to practice in the cafeteria.

And no, the budget is not just the county’s problem. APS can’t afford to maintain the fields/gyms/pools. The fees the county receives through club sports, parks and rec classes etc are what pay for the maintenance so that the student-athletes can use them.

Why can’t the teams who don’t need hoops practice elsewhere? That’s what they did in my high school, used the cafeteria, common area or hallway

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:quick question - how would the a later MS time impact those 8th graders that may make a high school JV sports team?

I'm in favor of a later time for my middle schooler but he is also very active after school in activities (at school) and outside school. He loves it and he NEEDS all the physical activity he can get.

If middle school got out later, they would not be able to participate in most high school sports. Practices would start before middle school ends. And little to no middle school sports would be an option.

You do not know this to be true. We don’t know what other changes would come out of shifting bell times.

+1 If bell times change, everything else will adjust to that! Extracurricular schedules are beholden to school schedules, not the other way around.

There is limited field/gym/pool space. It is logistically to have middle school sports if they get out after high schools. Period.

I'm just not understanding this argument. Other than 8th graders playing on the hs teams and any swimming that might occur, do all middle school sports have to use the high school facilities? TJ and Kenmore, at least, have tennis courts and fields available on-site. If other schools use county parks for the courts, that doesn't interfere with high school. And maybe some sports could just meet before school instead of after, if they're that critical.

Same with Williamsburg… Soccer, basketball, wrestling, track, ultimate, cheerleading, etc. all done at the school. I think swimming/dive is the one really impacted.

Middle school sports are from roughly 3-4pm. After that many middle school gyms and fields are used by high school and club teams. High schools do not have enough space for their own teams. Parks and Rec need the revenue from club teams to make budget. If middle school gets out around 4pm, there are not fields/gyms/pools for them to use.

I’m not disputing what you’re saying, but could you give a specific example of Arlington middle school fields used for high school? For various reasons we are at certain middle school field several times a week and I don’t see any high school sports going on. Lots of travel sports teams practicing.

From my experience, high school teams use middle school gyms - 6 high school basketball teams plus cheer and dance don’t fit in the high school gym space. Then club and rec teams use the middle school gyms. Club/travel teams use the fields and pools. I do not know the high school field sport practice schedule. As you say, lots of travel teams use the fields who pay a lot of money for the fields. DPR can’t afford to kick them out. Same for the fees the club swim teams pay for the pools. That income is needed for the maintainer budgets. Middle school sports are free.

Whether middle school sports are needed/valuable is a different question. But I do not believe the space is available for them to operate after 4pm.

SIX basketball teams? What high school has six basketball teams?
I don't know about WL; but both YHS and WHS have two gyms. Cheer and dance could use alternative spaces - I've seen YHS' winterguard practice in YHS' atrium when the gymnasiums are not available. If 20 kids can spin and toss flags and rifles and dance there, surely cheer or dance can manage some practice there or other spaces?

As for non-APS teams being essential for the income, that's the County's problem. APS facilities have shared-use agreements; but priority should be given to school groups.

See above for the 6 teams. All APS comprehensive high schools have 6 teams plus wrestling, dance and multiple levels of cheer. They usually have 3 practice slots per gym per day so some teams need somewhere else to practice. And no, you can’t tell the cheer and dance athletes that while they are considered athletes and perform and compete on courts that they need to practice in the cafeteria.

And no, the budget is not just the county’s problem. APS can’t afford to maintain the fields/gyms/pools. The fees the county receives through club sports, parks and rec classes etc are what pay for the maintenance so that the student-athletes can use them.

Why can’t the teams who don’t need hoops practice elsewhere? That’s what they did in my high school, used the cafeteria, common area or hallway

Apparently because cheer and dance kids are "athletes" and are therefore entitled to official "athletic" venues; so you can't tell them they have to practice on something other than official "athletic" courts and "athletic" fields.

But back to PP: APS' inability to maintain fields/gyms/pools absolutely is the County's problem. The County funds the schools and they share responsibility because they are joint-use facilities. Even if they didn't share the facilities, the County is responsible for providing a budget that enables APS to maintain its facilities. The rec fees from others isn't so the student-athletes can use them; it's so other community members can use them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:quick question - how would the a later MS time impact those 8th graders that may make a high school JV sports team?

I'm in favor of a later time for my middle schooler but he is also very active after school in activities (at school) and outside school. He loves it and he NEEDS all the physical activity he can get.

If middle school got out later, they would not be able to participate in most high school sports. Practices would start before middle school ends. And little to no middle school sports would be an option.

You do not know this to be true. We don’t know what other changes would come out of shifting bell times.

+1 If bell times change, everything else will adjust to that! Extracurricular schedules are beholden to school schedules, not the other way around.

There is limited field/gym/pool space. It is logistically to have middle school sports if they get out after high schools. Period.

I'm just not understanding this argument. Other than 8th graders playing on the hs teams and any swimming that might occur, do all middle school sports have to use the high school facilities? TJ and Kenmore, at least, have tennis courts and fields available on-site. If other schools use county parks for the courts, that doesn't interfere with high school. And maybe some sports could just meet before school instead of after, if they're that critical.

Same with Williamsburg… Soccer, basketball, wrestling, track, ultimate, cheerleading, etc. all done at the school. I think swimming/dive is the one really impacted.

Middle school sports are from roughly 3-4pm. After that many middle school gyms and fields are used by high school and club teams. High schools do not have enough space for their own teams. Parks and Rec need the revenue from club teams to make budget. If middle school gets out around 4pm, there are not fields/gyms/pools for them to use.

I’m not disputing what you’re saying, but could you give a specific example of Arlington middle school fields used for high school? For various reasons we are at certain middle school field several times a week and I don’t see any high school sports going on. Lots of travel sports teams practicing.

From my experience, high school teams use middle school gyms - 6 high school basketball teams plus cheer and dance don’t fit in the high school gym space. Then club and rec teams use the middle school gyms. Club/travel teams use the fields and pools. I do not know the high school field sport practice schedule. As you say, lots of travel teams use the fields who pay a lot of money for the fields. DPR can’t afford to kick them out. Same for the fees the club swim teams pay for the pools. That income is needed for the maintainer budgets. Middle school sports are free.

Whether middle school sports are needed/valuable is a different question. But I do not believe the space is available for them to operate after 4pm.

SIX basketball teams? What high school has six basketball teams?
I don't know about WL; but both YHS and WHS have two gyms. Cheer and dance could use alternative spaces - I've seen YHS' winterguard practice in YHS' atrium when the gymnasiums are not available. If 20 kids can spin and toss flags and rifles and dance there, surely cheer or dance can manage some practice there or other spaces?

As for non-APS teams being essential for the income, that's the County's problem. APS facilities have shared-use agreements; but priority should be given to school groups.

See above for the 6 teams. All APS comprehensive high schools have 6 teams plus wrestling, dance and multiple levels of cheer. They usually have 3 practice slots per gym per day so some teams need somewhere else to practice. And no, you can’t tell the cheer and dance athletes that while they are considered athletes and perform and compete on courts that they need to practice in the cafeteria.

And no, the budget is not just the county’s problem. APS can’t afford to maintain the fields/gyms/pools. The fees the county receives through club sports, parks and rec classes etc are what pay for the maintenance so that the student-athletes can use them.

Why can’t the teams who don’t need hoops practice elsewhere? That’s what they did in my high school, used the cafeteria, common area or hallway

Apparently because cheer and dance kids are "athletes" and are therefore entitled to official "athletic" venues; so you can't tell them they have to practice on something other than official "athletic" courts and "athletic" fields.

But back to PP: APS' inability to maintain fields/gyms/pools absolutely is the County's problem. The County funds the schools and they share responsibility because they are joint-use facilities. Even if they didn't share the facilities, the County is responsible for providing a budget that enables APS to maintain its facilities. The rec fees from others isn't so the student-athletes can use them; it's so other community members can use them.

Ok. They can rotate, basketball does conditioning elsewhere while they use the gym, then they switch. It’s fair.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:quick question - how would the a later MS time impact those 8th graders that may make a high school JV sports team?

I'm in favor of a later time for my middle schooler but he is also very active after school in activities (at school) and outside school. He loves it and he NEEDS all the physical activity he can get.

If middle school got out later, they would not be able to participate in most high school sports. Practices would start before middle school ends. And little to no middle school sports would be an option.

You do not know this to be true. We don’t know what other changes would come out of shifting bell times.

+1 If bell times change, everything else will adjust to that! Extracurricular schedules are beholden to school schedules, not the other way around.

There is limited field/gym/pool space. It is logistically to have middle school sports if they get out after high schools. Period.

I'm just not understanding this argument. Other than 8th graders playing on the hs teams and any swimming that might occur, do all middle school sports have to use the high school facilities? TJ and Kenmore, at least, have tennis courts and fields available on-site. If other schools use county parks for the courts, that doesn't interfere with high school. And maybe some sports could just meet before school instead of after, if they're that critical.

Same with Williamsburg… Soccer, basketball, wrestling, track, ultimate, cheerleading, etc. all done at the school. I think swimming/dive is the one really impacted.

Middle school sports are from roughly 3-4pm. After that many middle school gyms and fields are used by high school and club teams. High schools do not have enough space for their own teams. Parks and Rec need the revenue from club teams to make budget. If middle school gets out around 4pm, there are not fields/gyms/pools for them to use.

I’m not disputing what you’re saying, but could you give a specific example of Arlington middle school fields used for high school? For various reasons we are at certain middle school field several times a week and I don’t see any high school sports going on. Lots of travel sports teams practicing.

From my experience, high school teams use middle school gyms - 6 high school basketball teams plus cheer and dance don’t fit in the high school gym space. Then club and rec teams use the middle school gyms. Club/travel teams use the fields and pools. I do not know the high school field sport practice schedule. As you say, lots of travel teams use the fields who pay a lot of money for the fields. DPR can’t afford to kick them out. Same for the fees the club swim teams pay for the pools. That income is needed for the maintainer budgets. Middle school sports are free.

Whether middle school sports are needed/valuable is a different question. But I do not believe the space is available for them to operate after 4pm.

SIX basketball teams? What high school has six basketball teams?
I don't know about WL; but both YHS and WHS have two gyms. Cheer and dance could use alternative spaces - I've seen YHS' winterguard practice in YHS' atrium when the gymnasiums are not available. If 20 kids can spin and toss flags and rifles and dance there, surely cheer or dance can manage some practice there or other spaces?

As for non-APS teams being essential for the income, that's the County's problem. APS facilities have shared-use agreements; but priority should be given to school groups.

Well, one thing is clear- changing school start times by much for middle and high schools would really f&@# up a lot of schedules and eliminate many opportunities for sport and club participation.

Yeah, no. Swim clubs are mostly swimming at the stupid waste of money over at Long Bridge now. They can move ALL the teams there if they need to do that MS can have practice at the HS. Or maybe they have morning practice instead. Swimmers are used to early mornings. My HS swim team practiced before school, because we had a 9 am start so they could offer “zero period” classes at 8 am for kids taking lots of APs and still wanting time in the day for art/band/chorus, etc.

The right thing to do is make the change. People can adjust.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:quick question - how would the a later MS time impact those 8th graders that may make a high school JV sports team?

I'm in favor of a later time for my middle schooler but he is also very active after school in activities (at school) and outside school. He loves it and he NEEDS all the physical activity he can get.

If middle school got out later, they would not be able to participate in most high school sports. Practices would start before middle school ends. And little to no middle school sports would be an option.

You do not know this to be true. We don’t know what other changes would come out of shifting bell times.

+1 If bell times change, everything else will adjust to that! Extracurricular schedules are beholden to school schedules, not the other way around.

There is limited field/gym/pool space. It is logistically to have middle school sports if they get out after high schools. Period.

I'm just not understanding this argument. Other than 8th graders playing on the hs teams and any swimming that might occur, do all middle school sports have to use the high school facilities? TJ and Kenmore, at least, have tennis courts and fields available on-site. If other schools use county parks for the courts, that doesn't interfere with high school. And maybe some sports could just meet before school instead of after, if they're that critical.

Same with Williamsburg… Soccer, basketball, wrestling, track, ultimate, cheerleading, etc. all done at the school. I think swimming/dive is the one really impacted.

Middle school sports are from roughly 3-4pm. After that many middle school gyms and fields are used by high school and club teams. High schools do not have enough space for their own teams. Parks and Rec need the revenue from club teams to make budget. If middle school gets out around 4pm, there are not fields/gyms/pools for them to use.

I’m not disputing what you’re saying, but could you give a specific example of Arlington middle school fields used for high school? For various reasons we are at certain middle school field several times a week and I don’t see any high school sports going on. Lots of travel sports teams practicing.

From my experience, high school teams use middle school gyms - 6 high school basketball teams plus cheer and dance don’t fit in the high school gym space. Then club and rec teams use the middle school gyms. Club/travel teams use the fields and pools. I do not know the high school field sport practice schedule. As you say, lots of travel teams use the fields who pay a lot of money for the fields. DPR can’t afford to kick them out. Same for the fees the club swim teams pay for the pools. That income is needed for the maintainer budgets. Middle school sports are free.

Whether middle school sports are needed/valuable is a different question. But I do not believe the space is available for them to operate after 4pm.

SIX basketball teams? What high school has six basketball teams?
I don't know about WL; but both YHS and WHS have two gyms. Cheer and dance could use alternative spaces - I've seen YHS' winterguard practice in YHS' atrium when the gymnasiums are not available. If 20 kids can spin and toss flags and rifles and dance there, surely cheer or dance can manage some practice there or other spaces?

As for non-APS teams being essential for the income, that's the County's problem. APS facilities have shared-use agreements; but priority should be given to school groups.

Well, one thing is clear- changing school start times by much for middle and high schools would really f&@# up a lot of schedules and eliminate many opportunities for sport and club participation.

Yeah, no. Swim clubs are mostly swimming at the stupid waste of money over at Long Bridge now. They can move ALL the teams there if they need to do that MS can have practice at the HS. Or maybe they have morning practice instead. Swimmers are used to early mornings. My HS swim team practiced before school, because we had a 9 am start so they could offer “zero period” classes at 8 am for kids taking lots of APs and still wanting time in the day for art/band/chorus, etc.

The right thing to do is make the change. People can adjust.

Only one swim club is at LB. And Arlington swimmers ARE used to early mornings because there are already morning practices at the pools.

So- yeah, no. Asking all these parents to overhaul their work schedules to shuttle their kids around to morning practices during other people’s rush hour isn’t going to work.

[Anonymous]

The lesson here is that there are MANY MANY factors that impact the current bell schedule timing. It's not a simple change to make. The high school sports, middle school sports, Career Center classes that students from all the other HS go and take, etc. There is a lot to take into account and it's not just a question of system efficiency.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:quick question - how would the a later MS time impact those 8th graders that may make a high school JV sports team?

I'm in favor of a later time for my middle schooler but he is also very active after school in activities (at school) and outside school. He loves it and he NEEDS all the physical activity he can get.

If middle school got out later, they would not be able to participate in most high school sports. Practices would start before middle school ends. And little to no middle school sports would be an option.

You do not know this to be true. We don’t know what other changes would come out of shifting bell times.

+1 If bell times change, everything else will adjust to that! Extracurricular schedules are beholden to school schedules, not the other way around.

There is limited field/gym/pool space. It is logistically to have middle school sports if they get out after high schools. Period.

I'm just not understanding this argument. Other than 8th graders playing on the hs teams and any swimming that might occur, do all middle school sports have to use the high school facilities? TJ and Kenmore, at least, have tennis courts and fields available on-site. If other schools use county parks for the courts, that doesn't interfere with high school. And maybe some sports could just meet before school instead of after, if they're that critical.

Same with Williamsburg… Soccer, basketball, wrestling, track, ultimate, cheerleading, etc. all done at the school. I think swimming/dive is the one really impacted.

Middle school sports are from roughly 3-4pm. After that many middle school gyms and fields are used by high school and club teams. High schools do not have enough space for their own teams. Parks and Rec need the revenue from club teams to make budget. If middle school gets out around 4pm, there are not fields/gyms/pools for them to use.

I’m not disputing what you’re saying, but could you give a specific example of Arlington middle school fields used for high school? For various reasons we are at certain middle school field several times a week and I don’t see any high school sports going on. Lots of travel sports teams practicing.

From my experience, high school teams use middle school gyms - 6 high school basketball teams plus cheer and dance don’t fit in the high school gym space. Then club and rec teams use the middle school gyms. Club/travel teams use the fields and pools. I do not know the high school field sport practice schedule. As you say, lots of travel teams use the fields who pay a lot of money for the fields. DPR can’t afford to kick them out. Same for the fees the club swim teams pay for the pools. That income is needed for the maintainer budgets. Middle school sports are free.

Whether middle school sports are needed/valuable is a different question. But I do not believe the space is available for them to operate after 4pm.

SIX basketball teams? What high school has six basketball teams?
I don't know about WL; but both YHS and WHS have two gyms. Cheer and dance could use alternative spaces - I've seen YHS' winterguard practice in YHS' atrium when the gymnasiums are not available. If 20 kids can spin and toss flags and rifles and dance there, surely cheer or dance can manage some practice there or other spaces?

As for non-APS teams being essential for the income, that's the County's problem. APS facilities have shared-use agreements; but priority should be given to school groups.

Well, one thing is clear- changing school start times by much for middle and high schools would really f&@# up a lot of schedules and eliminate many opportunities for sport and club participation.

Yeah, no. Swim clubs are mostly swimming at the stupid waste of money over at Long Bridge now. They can move ALL the teams there if they need to do that MS can have practice at the HS. Or maybe they have morning practice instead. Swimmers are used to early mornings. My HS swim team practiced before school, because we had a 9 am start so they could offer “zero period” classes at 8 am for kids taking lots of APs and still wanting time in the day for art/band/chorus, etc.

The right thing to do is make the change. People can adjust.

Only one swim club is at LB. And Arlington swimmers ARE used to early mornings because there are already morning practices at the pools.

So- yeah, no. Asking all these parents to overhaul their work schedules to shuttle their kids around to morning practices during other people’s rush hour isn’t going to work.

Exactly! Would the precious poster please stop commenting on things s/he doesn’t know about. There is no way all of the swim clubs could fit at LB. And, just like the fields, the high school pools would come no where close to meeting their operating budget without the fees generated from club teams.

[Anonymous]

I still go back to ... Do the proposed bell times actually accomplish the goal of optimizing operations and reducing bell times??! I still see way more than 3-4 bell times in the proposals. Once again I don't see true transparency from APS on what the heck they are trying to accomplish. I just see a bunch of options with 5 or more bell times.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I still go back to ... Do the proposed bell times actually accomplish the goal of optimizing operations and reducing bell times??! I still see way more than 3-4 bell times in the proposals. Once again I don't see true transparency from APS on what the heck they are trying to accomplish. I just see a bunch of options with 5 or more bell times.

Good point. APS has not made clear the point of this whole exercise.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:quick question - how would the a later MS time impact those 8th graders that may make a high school JV sports team?

I'm in favor of a later time for my middle schooler but he is also very active after school in activities (at school) and outside school. He loves it and he NEEDS all the physical activity he can get.

If middle school got out later, they would not be able to participate in most high school sports. Practices would start before middle school ends. And little to no middle school sports would be an option.

You do not know this to be true. We don’t know what other changes would come out of shifting bell times.

+1 If bell times change, everything else will adjust to that! Extracurricular schedules are beholden to school schedules, not the other way around.

There is limited field/gym/pool space. It is logistically to have middle school sports if they get out after high schools. Period.

I'm just not understanding this argument. Other than 8th graders playing on the hs teams and any swimming that might occur, do all middle school sports have to use the high school facilities? TJ and Kenmore, at least, have tennis courts and fields available on-site. If other schools use county parks for the courts, that doesn't interfere with high school. And maybe some sports could just meet before school instead of after, if they're that critical.

Same with Williamsburg… Soccer, basketball, wrestling, track, ultimate, cheerleading, etc. all done at the school. I think swimming/dive is the one really impacted.

Middle school sports are from roughly 3-4pm. After that many middle school gyms and fields are used by high school and club teams. High schools do not have enough space for their own teams. Parks and Rec need the revenue from club teams to make budget. If middle school gets out around 4pm, there are not fields/gyms/pools for them to use.

I’m not disputing what you’re saying, but could you give a specific example of Arlington middle school fields used for high school? For various reasons we are at certain middle school field several times a week and I don’t see any high school sports going on. Lots of travel sports teams practicing.

From my experience, high school teams use middle school gyms - 6 high school basketball teams plus cheer and dance don’t fit in the high school gym space. Then club and rec teams use the middle school gyms. Club/travel teams use the fields and pools. I do not know the high school field sport practice schedule. As you say, lots of travel teams use the fields who pay a lot of money for the fields. DPR can’t afford to kick them out. Same for the fees the club swim teams pay for the pools. That income is needed for the maintainer budgets. Middle school sports are free.

Whether middle school sports are needed/valuable is a different question. But I do not believe the space is available for them to operate after 4pm.

SIX basketball teams? What high school has six basketball teams?
I don't know about WL; but both YHS and WHS have two gyms. Cheer and dance could use alternative spaces - I've seen YHS' winterguard practice in YHS' atrium when the gymnasiums are not available. If 20 kids can spin and toss flags and rifles and dance there, surely cheer or dance can manage some practice there or other spaces?

As for non-APS teams being essential for the income, that's the County's problem. APS facilities have shared-use agreements; but priority should be given to school groups.

Well, one thing is clear- changing school start times by much for middle and high schools would really f&@# up a lot of schedules and eliminate many opportunities for sport and club participation.

Yeah, no. Swim clubs are mostly swimming at the stupid waste of money over at Long Bridge now. They can move ALL the teams there if they need to do that MS can have practice at the HS. Or maybe they have morning practice instead. Swimmers are used to early mornings. My HS swim team practiced before school, because we had a 9 am start so they could offer “zero period” classes at 8 am for kids taking lots of APs and still wanting time in the day for art/band/chorus, etc.

The right thing to do is make the change. People can adjust.

Only one swim club is at LB. And Arlington swimmers ARE used to early mornings because there are already morning practices at the pools.

So- yeah, no. Asking all these parents to overhaul their work schedules to shuttle their kids around to morning practices during other people’s rush hour isn’t going to work.

I mean, first and foremost APS should be taking Swim Team parents’ schedules into account.