Did MCPS do a sneaky thing for the magnet lotteries?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wonder what percent of each group take private math courses? I suspect the taking of private math courses correlates far more with 5s than does race.

You may be right, but not sure that matters. They're ignoring the details of the process like local morning which explains the delta that they're pointing to as evidence of rigging. I think they're just heavily vested in this narrative and are in heavy denial of reality.

Doesn't make the data wrong. PP just presented the data and it is pretty clear it disadvantages and penalizes a particular racial minority group for good performance. I don't think it is fair but I am not particularly bothered by it. Eventually work doesn't go waste. Just have the grace though to accept the facts. It is obvious what's happening here - could be because of local mooring which happened for a reason.

The reason for local norming is a nationwide shift towards policies that reward the top percentile students based on their home school, not their entire district. It's a sea change, it's everywhere.

And it seems much more fair than simply handing out seats at these programs to the children of people whose kids attend prep. It seems more fair to reward actual talent which is distributed evenly if opportunities aren't.

Nothing was handed out. Those kids earned those spots by proving they could do the work. Under the new system, MCPS is hoping that kids who haven't proven anything can do the work. Hint: they can't. This is a race to the bottom.

I know what you mean. I spent over $15k in prep classes for so my kids could get in. That isn't handing things out at all. It's downright expensive!

LOL!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wonder what percent of each group take private math courses? I suspect the taking of private math courses correlates far more with 5s than does race.

You may be right, but not sure that matters. They're ignoring the details of the process like local morning which explains the delta that they're pointing to as evidence of rigging. I think they're just heavily vested in this narrative and are in heavy denial of reality.

Doesn't make the data wrong. PP just presented the data and it is pretty clear it disadvantages and penalizes a particular racial minority group for good performance. I don't think it is fair but I am not particularly bothered by it. Eventually work doesn't go waste. Just have the grace though to accept the facts. It is obvious what's happening here - could be because of local mooring which happened for a reason.

The reason for local norming is a nationwide shift towards policies that reward the top percentile students based on their home school, not their entire district. It's a sea change, it's everywhere.

And it seems much more fair than simply handing out seats at these programs to the children of people whose kids attend prep. It seems more fair to reward actual talent which is distributed evenly if opportunities aren't.

Nothing was handed out. Those kids earned those spots by proving they could do the work. Under the new system, MCPS is hoping that kids who haven't proven anything can do the work. Hint: they can't. This is a race to the bottom.

I know what you mean. I spent over $15k in prep classes for so my kids could get in. That isn't handing things out at all. It's downright expensive!

Not what you're determined to believe, but many of us have kids who've attended magnets with zero prep.

Well, if a local prep center in VA claims that over 30% of the students admitted to TJ were their students and lists their names on their website. It's safe to assume the same stuff is going on here across the river. And because there are several prep centers it's safe to assume that over half or more of these kids in these magnets are heavily invested in these prep centers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wonder what percent of each group take private math courses? I suspect the taking of private math courses correlates far more with 5s than does race.

You may be right, but not sure that matters. They're ignoring the details of the process like local morning which explains the delta that they're pointing to as evidence of rigging. I think they're just heavily vested in this narrative and are in heavy denial of reality.

Doesn't make the data wrong. PP just presented the data and it is pretty clear it disadvantages and penalizes a particular racial minority group for good performance. I don't think it is fair but I am not particularly bothered by it. Eventually work doesn't go waste. Just have the grace though to accept the facts. It is obvious what's happening here - could be because of local mooring which happened for a reason.

The reason for local norming is a nationwide shift towards policies that reward the top percentile students based on their home school, not their entire district. It's a sea change, it's everywhere.

And it seems much more fair than simply handing out seats at these programs to the children of people whose kids attend prep. It seems more fair to reward actual talent which is distributed evenly if opportunities aren't.

Nothing was handed out. Those kids earned those spots by proving they could do the work. Under the new system, MCPS is hoping that kids who haven't proven anything can do the work. Hint: they can't. This is a race to the bottom.

I know what you mean. I spent over $15k in prep classes for so my kids could get in. That isn't handing things out at all. It's downright expensive!

Not what you're determined to believe, but many of us have kids who've attended magnets with zero prep.

Well, if a local prep center in VA claims that over 30% of the students admitted to TJ were their students and lists their names on their website. It's safe to assume the same stuff is going on here across the river. And because there are several prep centers it's safe to assume that over half or more of these kids in these magnets are heavily invested in these prep centers.

Seems like the trolls from Virginia are here in full force.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wonder what percent of each group take private math courses? I suspect the taking of private math courses correlates far more with 5s than does race.

You may be right, but not sure that matters. They're ignoring the details of the process like local morning which explains the delta that they're pointing to as evidence of rigging. I think they're just heavily vested in this narrative and are in heavy denial of reality.

Doesn't make the data wrong. PP just presented the data and it is pretty clear it disadvantages and penalizes a particular racial minority group for good performance. I don't think it is fair but I am not particularly bothered by it. Eventually work doesn't go waste. Just have the grace though to accept the facts. It is obvious what's happening here - could be because of local mooring which happened for a reason.

The reason for local norming is a nationwide shift towards policies that reward the top percentile students based on their home school, not their entire district. It's a sea change, it's everywhere.

And it seems much more fair than simply handing out seats at these programs to the children of people whose kids attend prep. It seems more fair to reward actual talent which is distributed evenly if opportunities aren't.

Nothing was handed out. Those kids earned those spots by proving they could do the work. Under the new system, MCPS is hoping that kids who haven't proven anything can do the work. Hint: they can't. This is a race to the bottom.

I know what you mean. I spent over $15k in prep classes for so my kids could get in. That isn't handing things out at all. It's downright expensive!

Not what you're determined to believe, but many of us have kids who've attended magnets with zero prep.

Well, if a local prep center in VA claims that over 30% of the students admitted to TJ were their students and lists their names on their website. It's safe to assume the same stuff is going on here across the river. And because there are several prep centers it's safe to assume that over half or more of these kids in these magnets are heavily invested in these prep centers.

Seems like the trolls from Virginia are here in full force.

They just want you to think they're from Virginia!

[Anonymous]

So if a student “prepped” which means that they were prepared for enriched learning then that means that they should not receive enriched learning? I’m not sure I’m understanding the argument here.

BTW, my kid went to CES with no “prep” and we don’t know anyone who did.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So if a student “prepped” which means that they were prepared for enriched learning then that means that they should not receive enriched learning? I’m not sure I’m understanding the argument here.

BTW, my kid went to CES with no “prep” and we don’t know anyone who did.

I know! The good DCUM children never have to prep it's just the other 80% that do right?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So if a student “prepped” which means that they were prepared for enriched learning then that means that they should not receive enriched learning? I’m not sure I’m understanding the argument here.

BTW, my kid went to CES with no “prep” and we don’t know anyone who did.

Yes. Even if the parents encourage kids to learn outside school or even point them in the direction of say a free enrichment resource like Khan Academy, it is inequitable. Because how can a parent who is not educated or doesn't have a fast internet connection compete? In some families there are even two parents. Not fair. Make it all equal first and then we'll see whose kids are actually gifted. How do we measure giftedness after we have equalized everything? I don't know. Why don't we just make it all a lottery and be done with it?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wonder what percent of each group take private math courses? I suspect the taking of private math courses correlates far more with 5s than does race.

You may be right, but not sure that matters. They're ignoring the details of the process like local morning which explains the delta that they're pointing to as evidence of rigging. I think they're just heavily vested in this narrative and are in heavy denial of reality.

Doesn't make the data wrong. PP just presented the data and it is pretty clear it disadvantages and penalizes a particular racial minority group for good performance. I don't think it is fair but I am not particularly bothered by it. Eventually work doesn't go waste. Just have the grace though to accept the facts. It is obvious what's happening here - could be because of local mooring which happened for a reason.

The reason for local norming is a nationwide shift towards policies that reward the top percentile students based on their home school, not their entire district. It's a sea change, it's everywhere.

And it seems much more fair than simply handing out seats at these programs to the children of people whose kids attend prep. It seems more fair to reward actual talent which is distributed evenly if opportunities aren't.

Nothing was handed out. Those kids earned those spots by proving they could do the work. Under the new system, MCPS is hoping that kids who haven't proven anything can do the work. Hint: they can't. This is a race to the bottom.

I know what you mean. I spent over $15k in prep classes for so my kids could get in. That isn't handing things out at all. It's downright expensive!

Not what you're determined to believe, but many of us have kids who've attended magnets with zero prep.

Well, if a local prep center in VA claims that over 30% of the students admitted to TJ were their students and lists their names on their website. It's safe to assume the same stuff is going on here across the river. And because there are several prep centers it's safe to assume that over half or more of these kids in these magnets are heavily invested in these prep centers.

Seems like the trolls from Virginia are here in full force.

I remember reading about the Curie scandal. Something like a third of TJ's incoming class attended this prep center. I think this is why they reworked the admission process last year. The rumors that some kids even had test answers weren't substantiated. This whole prep culture had made TJ a very toxic place. It seems likely the same type of stuff is going on here whether people want to admit it or not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So if a student “prepped” which means that they were prepared for enriched learning then that means that they should not receive enriched learning? I’m not sure I’m understanding the argument here.

BTW, my kid went to CES with no “prep” and we don’t know anyone who did.

Yes. Even if the parents encourage kids to learn outside school or even point them in the direction of say a free enrichment resource like Khan Academy, it is inequitable. Because how can a parent who is not educated or doesn't have a fast internet connection compete? In some families there are even two parents. Not fair. Make it all equal first and then we'll see whose kids are actually gifted. How do we measure giftedness after we have equalized everything? I don't know. Why don't we just make it all a lottery and be done with it?

This is getting close to Harrison Bergeron territory.

Probably should just give our kids to the government to take care of immediately after child birth to make sure that no kid was ever given a special advantage from their parents that could aid in success in any way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wonder what percent of each group take private math courses? I suspect the taking of private math courses correlates far more with 5s than does race.

You may be right, but not sure that matters. They're ignoring the details of the process like local morning which explains the delta that they're pointing to as evidence of rigging. I think they're just heavily vested in this narrative and are in heavy denial of reality.

Doesn't make the data wrong. PP just presented the data and it is pretty clear it disadvantages and penalizes a particular racial minority group for good performance. I don't think it is fair but I am not particularly bothered by it. Eventually work doesn't go waste. Just have the grace though to accept the facts. It is obvious what's happening here - could be because of local mooring which happened for a reason.

The reason for local norming is a nationwide shift towards policies that reward the top percentile students based on their home school, not their entire district. It's a sea change, it's everywhere.

And it seems much more fair than simply handing out seats at these programs to the children of people whose kids attend prep. It seems more fair to reward actual talent which is distributed evenly if opportunities aren't.

Nothing was handed out. Those kids earned those spots by proving they could do the work. Under the new system, MCPS is hoping that kids who haven't proven anything can do the work. Hint: they can't. This is a race to the bottom.

I know what you mean. I spent over $15k in prep classes for so my kids could get in. That isn't handing things out at all. It's downright expensive!

Not what you're determined to believe, but many of us have kids who've attended magnets with zero prep.

Well, if a local prep center in VA claims that over 30% of the students admitted to TJ were their students and lists their names on their website. It's safe to assume the same stuff is going on here across the river. And because there are several prep centers it's safe to assume that over half or more of these kids in these magnets are heavily invested in these prep centers.

Seems like the trolls from Virginia are here in full force.

I remember reading about the Curie scandal. Something like a third of TJ's incoming class attended this prep center. I think this is why they reworked the admission process last year. The rumors that some kids even had test answers weren't substantiated. This whole prep culture had made TJ a very toxic place. It seems likely the same type of stuff is going on here whether people want to admit it or not.

Not a scandal and nothing to do with the change.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wonder what percent of each group take private math courses? I suspect the taking of private math courses correlates far more with 5s than does race.

You may be right, but not sure that matters. They're ignoring the details of the process like local morning which explains the delta that they're pointing to as evidence of rigging. I think they're just heavily vested in this narrative and are in heavy denial of reality.

Doesn't make the data wrong. PP just presented the data and it is pretty clear it disadvantages and penalizes a particular racial minority group for good performance. I don't think it is fair but I am not particularly bothered by it. Eventually work doesn't go waste. Just have the grace though to accept the facts. It is obvious what's happening here - could be because of local mooring which happened for a reason.

The reason for local norming is a nationwide shift towards policies that reward the top percentile students based on their home school, not their entire district. It's a sea change, it's everywhere.

And it seems much more fair than simply handing out seats at these programs to the children of people whose kids attend prep. It seems more fair to reward actual talent which is distributed evenly if opportunities aren't.

Nothing was handed out. Those kids earned those spots by proving they could do the work. Under the new system, MCPS is hoping that kids who haven't proven anything can do the work. Hint: they can't. This is a race to the bottom.

I think the problem is that allocating magnet seats for 9 year olds, or 11 year olds, based on whether their families had the resources to expose them to the material ALREADY so that they could "prove" that they could "do the work" is simply perpetuating inequality.

I don't want to be part of a society that determines that kids do not deserve enrichment and acceleration if they have not already received that enrichment from the private sector before they hit 4th grade.

So you prefer living in a society that pretends that below-average kids who have never proven themselves are above average? Do you want one of them performing heart surgery on you some day or would you prefer the person who proved their qualifications? You wokes pretend that all kids are exactly equal and that the only difference is prep/no prep which is woke lunacy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So if a student “prepped” which means that they were prepared for enriched learning then that means that they should not receive enriched learning? I’m not sure I’m understanding the argument here.

BTW, my kid went to CES with no “prep” and we don’t know anyone who did.

Yes. Even if the parents encourage kids to learn outside school or even point them in the direction of say a free enrichment resource like Khan Academy, it is inequitable. Because how can a parent who is not educated or doesn't have a fast internet connection compete? In some families there are even two parents. Not fair. Make it all equal first and then we'll see whose kids are actually gifted. How do we measure giftedness after we have equalized everything? I don't know. Why don't we just make it all a lottery and be done with it?

The only way to do what you suggest is to slow the whole system down to such a crawl that it would destroy everything. The goal isn't to get everyone exactly equal. It's to find the best of the best. And those kids are the ones who study all the time and, yes, have some advantages like 2 parent households and books in the home. There's no way for kids who don't have those things to compete and that's OK. They can do something elae.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wonder what percent of each group take private math courses? I suspect the taking of private math courses correlates far more with 5s than does race.

You may be right, but not sure that matters. They're ignoring the details of the process like local morning which explains the delta that they're pointing to as evidence of rigging. I think they're just heavily vested in this narrative and are in heavy denial of reality.

Doesn't make the data wrong. PP just presented the data and it is pretty clear it disadvantages and penalizes a particular racial minority group for good performance. I don't think it is fair but I am not particularly bothered by it. Eventually work doesn't go waste. Just have the grace though to accept the facts. It is obvious what's happening here - could be because of local mooring which happened for a reason.

The reason for local norming is a nationwide shift towards policies that reward the top percentile students based on their home school, not their entire district. It's a sea change, it's everywhere.

And it seems much more fair than simply handing out seats at these programs to the children of people whose kids attend prep. It seems more fair to reward actual talent which is distributed evenly if opportunities aren't.

Nothing was handed out. Those kids earned those spots by proving they could do the work. Under the new system, MCPS is hoping that kids who haven't proven anything can do the work. Hint: they can't. This is a race to the bottom.

I get it. It's hard to give up privilege. Being able to rig the outcome by enrolling in a few prep classes makes admission easy, doesn't favor the wealthy and inserts uncertainty into a stressful process.

Studying hard is privilege? It sounds like you're lobbying for UMC parents to encourage their kids to study less. And you wonder why no one takes progressives seriously.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wonder what percent of each group take private math courses? I suspect the taking of private math courses correlates far more with 5s than does race.

You may be right, but not sure that matters. They're ignoring the details of the process like local morning which explains the delta that they're pointing to as evidence of rigging. I think they're just heavily vested in this narrative and are in heavy denial of reality.

Doesn't make the data wrong. PP just presented the data and it is pretty clear it disadvantages and penalizes a particular racial minority group for good performance. I don't think it is fair but I am not particularly bothered by it. Eventually work doesn't go waste. Just have the grace though to accept the facts. It is obvious what's happening here - could be because of local mooring which happened for a reason.

The reason for local norming is a nationwide shift towards policies that reward the top percentile students based on their home school, not their entire district. It's a sea change, it's everywhere.

And it seems much more fair than simply handing out seats at these programs to the children of people whose kids attend prep. It seems more fair to reward actual talent which is distributed evenly if opportunities aren't.

Nothing was handed out. Those kids earned those spots by proving they could do the work. Under the new system, MCPS is hoping that kids who haven't proven anything can do the work. Hint: they can't. This is a race to the bottom.

I think the problem is that allocating magnet seats for 9 year olds, or 11 year olds, based on whether their families had the resources to expose them to the material ALREADY so that they could "prove" that they could "do the work" is simply perpetuating inequality.

I don't want to be part of a society that determines that kids do not deserve enrichment and acceleration if they have not already received that enrichment from the private sector before they hit 4th grade.

So you prefer living in a society that pretends that below-average kids who have never proven themselves are above average? Do you want one of them performing heart surgery on you some day or would you prefer the person who proved their qualifications? You wokes pretend that all kids are exactly equal and that the only difference is prep/no prep which is woke lunacy.

No I want to be part of a society where the somewhat below average kid who can afford prep classes can test as gifted and take the spot of an actual gifted kid who can't afford prep classes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wonder what percent of each group take private math courses? I suspect the taking of private math courses correlates far more with 5s than does race.

You may be right, but not sure that matters. They're ignoring the details of the process like local morning which explains the delta that they're pointing to as evidence of rigging. I think they're just heavily vested in this narrative and are in heavy denial of reality.

Doesn't make the data wrong. PP just presented the data and it is pretty clear it disadvantages and penalizes a particular racial minority group for good performance. I don't think it is fair but I am not particularly bothered by it. Eventually work doesn't go waste. Just have the grace though to accept the facts. It is obvious what's happening here - could be because of local mooring which happened for a reason.

The reason for local norming is a nationwide shift towards policies that reward the top percentile students based on their home school, not their entire district. It's a sea change, it's everywhere.

And it seems much more fair than simply handing out seats at these programs to the children of people whose kids attend prep. It seems more fair to reward actual talent which is distributed evenly if opportunities aren't.

Nothing was handed out. Those kids earned those spots by proving they could do the work. Under the new system, MCPS is hoping that kids who haven't proven anything can do the work. Hint: they can't. This is a race to the bottom.

I get it. It's hard to give up privilege. Being able to rig the outcome by enrolling in a few prep classes makes admission easy, doesn't favor the wealthy and inserts uncertainty into a stressful process.

Studying hard is privilege? It sounds like you're lobbying for UMC parents to encourage their kids to study less. And you wonder why no one takes progressives seriously.

Not sure how you're getting this at all. The poster said nothing of the sort. What they said was that some kids can afford classes which give them a huge advantage over kids that canno.