VYS Soccer - better or worse?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

RantingSoccerDad wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

RantingSoccerDad wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

RantingSoccerDad wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

RantingSoccerDad wrote:I either coached or coached against a bunch of players on the VYS 06 team, and I have no idea how good they are.

Neither do you.

Either way, the team is in the middle of a downward spiral. They lost 0-3 to "powerhouse" CYA yesterday.

That's the same result they had in May 2019.

Though, they beat CYA 5-4 in August 2019, then lost to them 3-2 in Sept 2019. They were competitive games from the score sheet.
In Nov 2019, they beat Tidewater 7-0 but this year they tied 1-1.

Yeah, that's strange.

But it's incumbent on the "downward spiral" person to provide more evidence beyond a few scores. What factors led to this alleged spiral? How many were exacerbated by COVID?

They sent kids to Bethesda South and then McLean a couple of years ago. Was there a big exodus this year? If so, why?

And why does the "downward spiral" person care so much?

My theory about such people is that they left and are then trying to justify their decision. (If that's the case here, I might actually know who it is! Or I could find out rather quickly.)

They sent kids to Bethesda South? You mean "A few kids fled to Bethesda South". I know it's not much but your words put such a nice spin on it like VYS was cooperating with other clubs. These kids and parents couldn't wait to leave Vienna and play with better kids and better coaching.

Please contact me. I don't want to say anything without clearing it.

Ranting Soccer Dad. Do you have any kids left in VYS?

This guy is a complete tool. We have played against the House team he coaches across the years in different age groups and they are almost always horrible. It is just always a mess and really bad coaching - VYS balances the teams. He is also the type of Dad Coach who always puts his son on the All Star team no matter how clearly unfair that is.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This guy is a complete tool.

I have no idea if RantingSoccerDad is or isn't a complete tool. I have however formed a definite opinion on your character.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This guy is a complete tool.

I have no idea if RantingSoccerDad is or isn't a complete tool. I have however formed a definite opinion on your character.

I have no idea *who* RantingSoccerDad is, but even after only discovering this forum a month ago or so, I've already learned so much by reading all the materials that he's written about youth soccer in the DMV (honestly, it's all still way too confusing to me, but at least I have a general understanding thanks to RantingSoccerDad). So, just ignore the anonymous posters who are talking trash.

Thanks for the info you put out there, RSD!

[Anonymous]

Thank you, RantingSD, for your willingness to share information and for the book about young players. I look forward to your next live-blog.

[Anonymous]

RantingSoccerDad wrote:Yeah, I thought about reporting that post, but I figured I'd just let the anonymous guy look like an idiot. If it's who I'm thinking of, it's someone who always took rec games way too seriously, gamed the system to put together his own powerhouse teams and wasn't a well-liked guy among the other coaches in our age group, most of whom got along pretty well.

The vast majority of VYS parent coaches I've known are good people, and I'd recommend the rec program to anyone who asks. Just a couple of exceptions.

We've had nothing but great experiences with the VYS House program. I wish they were better about tracking results and maybe ended the season with some sort of playoff round ... I know it's not supposed to be about results, but with competitive boys it's always about results, and that's not a bad thing. Kids can still play and have fun and a love of the game but also engage in good-natured competition. As I recall, there's no way to track your team's progress (teams don't even have names, just named after the coach's last name) or standings. I don't know, maybe it's just me, but this would be one change that would encourage competition and give the kids a goal to aim for. They do have the all-stars tournament at the end of the spring season, but that's different than the regular season where you're playing with your team and trying to win as a team.

[Anonymous]

RantingSoccerDad wrote:

Anonymous wrote:VYS announced a winter outdoor house league. Are other clubs going to do this also?

Cool -- more reffing work.

Hey RSD, you said you are a referee. Can you as a referee send a parent to the parking lot? Can you even address parents? Do you have any authority over parents? Or can you only ask the coach to deal with parents and if the cis h doesn’t, then you can give the coach a card? What power do you have to control parents? Does it vary by state? By league?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

RantingSoccerDad wrote:

Anonymous wrote:VYS announced a winter outdoor house league. Are other clubs going to do this also?

Cool -- more reffing work.

Hey RSD, you said you are a referee. Can you as a referee send a parent to the parking lot? Can you even address parents? Do you have any authority over parents? Or can you only ask the coach to deal with parents and if the cis h doesn’t, then you can give the coach a card? What power do you have to control parents? Does it vary by state? By league?

Or start a new thread called "I'm a Referee AMA" to not take over this one.

[Anonymous]

Does VYS use Oakmarr for games or just for practice?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Does VYS use Oakmarr for games or just for practice?

In my experience, just practice.

[Anonymous]

RantingSoccerDad wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

RantingSoccerDad wrote:

Anonymous wrote:VYS announced a winter outdoor house league. Are other clubs going to do this also?

Cool -- more reffing work.

Hey RSD, you said you are a referee. Can you as a referee send a parent to the parking lot? Can you even address parents? Do you have any authority over parents? Or can you only ask the coach to deal with parents and if the cis h doesn’t, then you can give the coach a card? What power do you have to control parents? Does it vary by state? By league?

Or start a new thread called "I'm a Referee AMA" to not take over this one.

Good point!

But I'll answer quickly -- the guidance we receive is muddled. The only time it has come for me was at the WAGS Tournament this year, where our field supervisor had mysteriously disappeared. Without going into detail, I didn't handle it as well as I should have -- I should've gone straight to the coach -- but when two parents were on the verge of throwing down, I felt obliged to send them away without delay.

It doesn't come up in the youngsters' VYS games I ref. The only interaction I can remember with a parent was actually this past weekend, when a dad was five yards out on the field yelling at his kid. I gently suggested that he not do that.

Not a ref - but in my experience of watching refs refereeing youth soccer there are only two errors which I put in the category of disasters.

1. A ref who loses his temper. This is the #1 sin a ref can commit. Above all he needs to stay calm and maintain his sense of humor. That doesn't mean he shouldn't be firm - but he must stay calm and professional. Nearly all the "crazy" stuff I've seen over the years has occurred when the ref has allowed events to cause them to get riled up. For example, when you have a crazy coach who gets bent out of shape, a good ref defuses the situation before he has to hand out a red card. A bad ref escalates the problem into a macho-posturing competition and ends up handing out a red card. This same situation can occur with players and parents. The bottom line is that the ref should never be shouting at anyone. In my view - once the ref starts shouting - he's doing his job wrong.

2. The center circle ref. When a ref doesn't stay close enough to the play he makes a lot of errors. Most refs - even ones that don't know the rules perfectly - will make enough calls and mostly get them right to maintain control of the game. But a ref who never gets more than a few yards from the center of the field misses a huge percentage of calls - he calls things he shouldn't and fails to call things he should. The kids get very frustrated fairly quickly and can take things into their own hands - at which point the ref starts handing out cards - but that just makes things worse because he's still blowing the calls - handing out cards when there's been no foul and failing to blow his whistle at all when a card is deserved, and the game spirals totally out of control.

The worst ref I ever saw combined both of these and ended up with more than a dozen cards handed out in the space of twenty minutes, kids screaming at the ref, the ref screaming back and the ref fist pumping when one team scored a goal. Sadly the tournament officials sided with the ref and expelled the team which got most of the yellow cards from the tournament - but - while the kids clearly didn't cover themselves in glory - in my view the situation was 90% the ref's fault.

When it comes to parents I think the ref should avoid any interaction as far as he possibly can. Obviously if the parent is on the field then you must ask him to move. And doing it gently is definitely the best way to do so . And I would suggest that even two parents getting into a punch up is not a good place for a ref to be. Much better - as you suggest - for the coaches to sort this out. The ref could perhaps stop the game until the situation is resolved - but anything more than that is likely a mistake.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

RantingSoccerDad wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

RantingSoccerDad wrote:

Anonymous wrote:VYS announced a winter outdoor house league. Are other clubs going to do this also?

Cool -- more reffing work.

Hey RSD, you said you are a referee. Can you as a referee send a parent to the parking lot? Can you even address parents? Do you have any authority over parents? Or can you only ask the coach to deal with parents and if the cis h doesn’t, then you can give the coach a card? What power do you have to control parents? Does it vary by state? By league?

Or start a new thread called "I'm a Referee AMA" to not take over this one.

Good point!

But I'll answer quickly -- the guidance we receive is muddled. The only time it has come for me was at the WAGS Tournament this year, where our field supervisor had mysteriously disappeared. Without going into detail, I didn't handle it as well as I should have -- I should've gone straight to the coach -- but when two parents were on the verge of throwing down, I felt obliged to send them away without delay.

It doesn't come up in the youngsters' VYS games I ref. The only interaction I can remember with a parent was actually this past weekend, when a dad was five yards out on the field yelling at his kid. I gently suggested that he not do that.

Not a ref - but in my experience of watching refs refereeing youth soccer there are only two errors which I put in the category of disasters.

1. A ref who loses his temper. This is the #1 sin a ref can commit. Above all he needs to stay calm and maintain his sense of humor. That doesn't mean he shouldn't be firm - but he must stay calm and professional. Nearly all the "crazy" stuff I've seen over the years has occurred when the ref has allowed events to cause them to get riled up. For example, when you have a crazy coach who gets bent out of shape, a good ref defuses the situation before he has to hand out a red card. A bad ref escalates the problem into a macho-posturing competition and ends up handing out a red card. This same situation can occur with players and parents. The bottom line is that the ref should never be shouting at anyone. In my view - once the ref starts shouting - he's doing his job wrong.

2. The center circle ref. When a ref doesn't stay close enough to the play he makes a lot of errors. Most refs - even ones that don't know the rules perfectly - will make enough calls and mostly get them right to maintain control of the game. But a ref who never gets more than a few yards from the center of the field misses a huge percentage of calls - he calls things he shouldn't and fails to call things he should. The kids get very frustrated fairly quickly and can take things into their own hands - at which point the ref starts handing out cards - but that just makes things worse because he's still blowing the calls - handing out cards when there's been no foul and failing to blow his whistle at all when a card is deserved, and the game spirals totally out of control.

The worst ref I ever saw combined both of these and ended up with more than a dozen cards handed out in the space of twenty minutes, kids screaming at the ref, the ref screaming back and the ref fist pumping when one team scored a goal. Sadly the tournament officials sided with the ref and expelled the team which got most of the yellow cards from the tournament - but - while the kids clearly didn't cover themselves in glory - in my view the situation was 90% the ref's fault.

When it comes to parents I think the ref should avoid any interaction as far as he possibly can. Obviously if the parent is on the field then you must ask him to move. And doing it gently is definitely the best way to do so . And I would suggest that even two parents getting into a punch up is not a good place for a ref to be. Much better - as you suggest - for the coaches to sort this out. The ref could perhaps stop the game until the situation is resolved - but anything more than that is likely a mistake.

This is awesome. Fist pumping! I doubt you could make that up. That's hysterical.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

RantingSoccerDad wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

RantingSoccerDad wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

RantingSoccerDad wrote:I either coached or coached against a bunch of players on the VYS 06 team, and I have no idea how good they are.

Neither do you.

Either way, the team is in the middle of a downward spiral. They lost 0-3 to "powerhouse" CYA yesterday.

That's the same result they had in May 2019.

Though, they beat CYA 5-4 in August 2019, then lost to them 3-2 in Sept 2019. They were competitive games from the score sheet.
In Nov 2019, they beat Tidewater 7-0 but this year they tied 1-1.

Yeah, that's strange.

But it's incumbent on the "downward spiral" person to provide more evidence beyond a few scores. What factors led to this alleged spiral? How many were exacerbated by COVID?

They sent kids to Bethesda South and then McLean a couple of years ago. Was there a big exodus this year? If so, why?

And why does the "downward spiral" person care so much?

My theory about such people is that they left and are then trying to justify their decision. (If that's the case here, I might actually know who it is! Or I could find out rather quickly.)

They sent kids to Bethesda South? You mean "A few kids fled to Bethesda South". I know it's not much but your words put such a nice spin on it like VYS was cooperating with other clubs. These kids and parents couldn't wait to leave Vienna and play with better kids and better coaching.

Not an 06 family. We were at VYS. For boys U9 -U12 there is great coaching. Though, at U13 and up, the coaching IMO, falls way short. That is why we left.
But don't get me wrong, we were very happy and grateful with VYS through U12. Additionally, I'm unsure how those age brackets look now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

RantingSoccerDad wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

RantingSoccerDad wrote:

Anonymous wrote:VYS announced a winter outdoor house league. Are other clubs going to do this also?

Cool -- more reffing work.

Hey RSD, you said you are a referee. Can you as a referee send a parent to the parking lot? Can you even address parents? Do you have any authority over parents? Or can you only ask the coach to deal with parents and if the cis h doesn’t, then you can give the coach a card? What power do you have to control parents? Does it vary by state? By league?

Or start a new thread called "I'm a Referee AMA" to not take over this one.

Good point!

But I'll answer quickly -- the guidance we receive is muddled. The only time it has come for me was at the WAGS Tournament this year, where our field supervisor had mysteriously disappeared. Without going into detail, I didn't handle it as well as I should have -- I should've gone straight to the coach -- but when two parents were on the verge of throwing down, I felt obliged to send them away without delay.

It doesn't come up in the youngsters' VYS games I ref. The only interaction I can remember with a parent was actually this past weekend, when a dad was five yards out on the field yelling at his kid. I gently suggested that he not do that.

Not a ref - but in my experience of watching refs refereeing youth soccer there are only two errors which I put in the category of disasters.

1. A ref who loses his temper. This is the #1 sin a ref can commit. Above all he needs to stay calm and maintain his sense of humor. That doesn't mean he shouldn't be firm - but he must stay calm and professional. Nearly all the "crazy" stuff I've seen over the years has occurred when the ref has allowed events to cause them to get riled up. For example, when you have a crazy coach who gets bent out of shape, a good ref defuses the situation before he has to hand out a red card. A bad ref escalates the problem into a macho-posturing competition and ends up handing out a red card. This same situation can occur with players and parents. The bottom line is that the ref should never be shouting at anyone. In my view - once the ref starts shouting - he's doing his job wrong.

2. The center circle ref. When a ref doesn't stay close enough to the play he makes a lot of errors. Most refs - even ones that don't know the rules perfectly - will make enough calls and mostly get them right to maintain control of the game. But a ref who never gets more than a few yards from the center of the field misses a huge percentage of calls - he calls things he shouldn't and fails to call things he should. The kids get very frustrated fairly quickly and can take things into their own hands - at which point the ref starts handing out cards - but that just makes things worse because he's still blowing the calls - handing out cards when there's been no foul and failing to blow his whistle at all when a card is deserved, and the game spirals totally out of control.

The worst ref I ever saw combined both of these and ended up with more than a dozen cards handed out in the space of twenty minutes, kids screaming at the ref, the ref screaming back and the ref fist pumping when one team scored a goal. Sadly the tournament officials sided with the ref and expelled the team which got most of the yellow cards from the tournament - but - while the kids clearly didn't cover themselves in glory - in my view the situation was 90% the ref's fault.

When it comes to parents I think the ref should avoid any interaction as far as he possibly can. Obviously if the parent is on the field then you must ask him to move. And doing it gently is definitely the best way to do so . And I would suggest that even two parents getting into a punch up is not a good place for a ref to be. Much better - as you suggest - for the coaches to sort this out. The ref could perhaps stop the game until the situation is resolved - but anything more than that is likely a mistake.

This is awesome. Fist pumping! I doubt you could make that up. That's hysterical.

Yes. Not a game that anyone who saw it will ever forget .

[Anonymous]

Strikers were in town this weekend and VYS seemed to hold their own on the boys side.

09s, 05s, and 04s won.
10s,06s, and 02/03s lost.
07s and 08s didn't play.

Not bad.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Strikers were in town this weekend and VYS seemed to hold their own on the boys side.

09s, 05s, and 04s won.
10s,06s, and 02/03s lost.
07s and 08s didn't play.

Not bad.

Guessing the 08s and 07s will split, keeping it at exactly .500.