Duggar son allegedly molested girls including sisters

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We have a juvenile justice system for a reason...primarily because science and medical research tell us that the adolescent brain isn't fully developed until early adulthood and impulse control is lacking. Google it. Most boys have access to the internet and porn at an early age...and that satisfies curiosity. The Duggar kid would not have groped his sisters had he owned an iPad and lived in a normal family. Had this case ever gone to court (which is a real stretch given the victims were family and the alleged acts primarily were limited to over clothing groping), even a newbie defense lawyer would have gotten him off given his age, the offenses and his circumstances.

I think if you actually knew some of the stupid shit your husband, brother or son did as a tween you'd be less shocked. Anyone know cousins who played doctor? Anyone play doctor themselves? Anyone recall playground bullying where a kids pants were pulled down or a bra was snapped?

Think about all the keg parties you went to in high school and crazy shit guys tried. Back in the day we referred to the guys at one local catholic school as date rapists because they were so crude and aggressive (no actual rapes that I know of, but I vividly remember being pinned against a wall --- and that guy is a decent adult...he just acted like a stupid shit one time).

If the Duggar kid is a serial predator, then the acts would have increased in intensity and would not have stopped. Big difference between a sexual predator and a stupid, impulsive kid.

Even if I accepted the premise that this is something curious developing boys do in the absence of normal media access, I would never accept that there was anything less than predatory about molesting a 5 year old. Healthy adolescent boys are not sexually curious about 5 years olds. That point seems to get lost a lot in this discussion.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We have a juvenile justice system for a reason...primarily because science and medical research tell us that the adolescent brain isn't fully developed until early adulthood and impulse control is lacking. Google it. Most boys have access to the internet and porn at an early age...and that satisfies curiosity. The Duggar kid would not have groped his sisters had he owned an iPad and lived in a normal family. Had this case ever gone to court (which is a real stretch given the victims were family and the alleged acts primarily were limited to over clothing groping), even a newbie defense lawyer would have gotten him off given his age, the offenses and his circumstances.

I think if you actually knew some of the stupid shit your husband, brother or son did as a tween you'd be less shocked. Anyone know cousins who played doctor? Anyone play doctor themselves? Anyone recall playground bullying where a kids pants were pulled down or a bra was snapped?

Think about all the keg parties you went to in high school and crazy shit guys tried. Back in the day we referred to the guys at one local catholic school as date rapists because they were so crude and aggressive (no actual rapes that I know of, but I vividly remember being pinned against a wall --- and that guy is a decent adult...he just acted like a stupid shit one time).

If the Duggar kid is a serial predator, then the acts would have increased in intensity and would not have stopped. Big difference between a sexual predator and a stupid, impulsive kid.

Even if I accepted the premise that this is something curious developing boys do in the absence of normal media access, I would never accept that there was anything less than predatory about molesting a 5 year old. Healthy adolescent boys are not sexually curious about 5 years olds. That point seems to get lost a lot in this discussion.

It gets lost because Duggar supporters want it lost.

[Anonymous]

My theory: someone at the Family Research Council who was jealous of Josh being paid just for existing and with no qualifications heard rumors about the molestation and tipped off In Touch to do the FOIA request. A cushy nonprofit job like his is the holy grail for operatives who have been scrapping their way up in the field--bachelors degree, masters degree, low level campaign work in some godforsaken place like Juneau, job with a congressman who then loses reelection, etc etc etc. Josh's existence would have burned some ambitious people there up.

[Anonymous]

A real journalist (not Megyn) would have walked through the whole timeline of events from beginning to end. No mention of the Oprah show, the letter in the book...?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My theory: someone at the Family Research Council who was jealous of Josh being paid just for existing and with no qualifications heard rumors about the molestation and tipped off In Touch to do the FOIA request. A cushy nonprofit job like his is the holy grail for operatives who have been scrapping their way up in the field--bachelors degree, masters degree, low level campaign work in some godforsaken place like Juneau, job with a congressman who then loses reelection, etc etc etc. Josh's existence would have burned some ambitious people there up.

These stories have been making the rounds at Free Jinger and several former Quiverfull sites since at least 2007. Sexual abuse is terrifyingly common in these unhealthy communities.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

“On 5/20/15, in full compliance with Arkansas Law, the Springdale Police Department responded to a records request under the Arkansas Freedom of Information Act. The requested record was not sealed or expunged, and at the time the report was filed, the person listed in the report was an adult. Any names of minors included in the report, as well as pronouns, were redacted from the report by the Springdale Police Department in compliance with Arkansas law prior to release.”

http://5newsonline.com/2015/06/04/city-of-springda...exual-molestation-accusations/

Not sealed? I think I better read the link.

From my post earlier today:

Ironically, if they had done everything the right way, that police report would have become part of a court case involving a juvenile and therefore sealed, just like the results of the CPS investigation were sealed. Police reports by themselves are eligible to be released with the proper redaction of the names of juveniles, as we done in this case.

PP you quoted. OK.. that makes sense. I watched a couple of minutes of the interview with the parents, and Jim Bob said something about the police assuring them it would be sealed. I didn't even clue in to the fact that it wouldn't be sealed because it wasn't a court case.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My theory: someone at the Family Research Council who was jealous of Josh being paid just for existing and with no qualifications heard rumors about the molestation and tipped off In Touch to do the FOIA request. A cushy nonprofit job like his is the holy grail for operatives who have been scrapping their way up in the field--bachelors degree, masters degree, low level campaign work in some godforsaken place like Juneau, job with a congressman who then loses reelection, etc etc etc. Josh's existence would have burned some ambitious people there up.

These stories have been making the rounds at Free Jinger and several former Quiverfull sites since at least 2007. Sexual abuse is terrifyingly common in these unhealthy communities.

True, but why made public now after all these years? The coworker angle makes sense to me. Maybe he pissed someone off there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My theory: someone at the Family Research Council who was jealous of Josh being paid just for existing and with no qualifications heard rumors about the molestation and tipped off In Touch to do the FOIA request. A cushy nonprofit job like his is the holy grail for operatives who have been scrapping their way up in the field--bachelors degree, masters degree, low level campaign work in some godforsaken place like Juneau, job with a congressman who then loses reelection, etc etc etc. Josh's existence would have burned some ambitious people there up.

These stories have been making the rounds at Free Jinger and several former Quiverfull sites since at least 2007. Sexual abuse is terrifyingly common in these unhealthy communities.

True, but why made public now after all these years? The coworker angle makes sense to me. Maybe he pissed someone off there.

The timing is curious. Why was this made public now? You could speculate that the older girls have broken free, now that they're married, but it doesn't seem to be the case. While the internet rumors have been around for a long time, no one has successfully followed up on them. The FRC angle seems likely to me. Or possibly a Democrat political operative, since the Duggars are politically active. But why not earlier, if that's the case?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My theory: someone at the Family Research Council who was jealous of Josh being paid just for existing and with no qualifications heard rumors about the molestation and tipped off In Touch to do the FOIA request. A cushy nonprofit job like his is the holy grail for operatives who have been scrapping their way up in the field--bachelors degree, masters degree, low level campaign work in some godforsaken place like Juneau, job with a congressman who then loses reelection, etc etc etc. Josh's existence would have burned some ambitious people there up.

These stories have been making the rounds at Free Jinger and several former Quiverfull sites since at least 2007. Sexual abuse is terrifyingly common in these unhealthy communities.

True, but why made public now after all these years? The coworker angle makes sense to me. Maybe he pissed someone off there.

The timing is curious. Why was this made public now? You could speculate that the older girls have broken free, now that they're married, but it doesn't seem to be the case. While the internet rumors have been around for a long time, no one has successfully followed up on them. The FRC angle seems likely to me. Or possibly a Democrat political operative, since the Duggars are politically active. But why not earlier, if that's the case?

You don’t think it’s because the chief of police, O’Kelley is preparing for retirement and thought, “Well, it’s now or never.”
Seems as if she and the Duggars had differences.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My theory: someone at the Family Research Council who was jealous of Josh being paid just for existing and with no qualifications heard rumors about the molestation and tipped off In Touch to do the FOIA request. A cushy nonprofit job like his is the holy grail for operatives who have been scrapping their way up in the field--bachelors degree, masters degree, low level campaign work in some godforsaken place like Juneau, job with a congressman who then loses reelection, etc etc etc. Josh's existence would have burned some ambitious people there up.

These stories have been making the rounds at Free Jinger and several former Quiverfull sites since at least 2007. Sexual abuse is terrifyingly common in these unhealthy communities.

My money is still on cousin Amy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The first time I saw the Duggars, I was more interested in knowing how they managed to run the household with so many kids. That was the extent of my interest. I found the mom and dad very weird.

Having said that, I feel that the reports got released mainly because the family started to become associated with Republican campaigning.Once you dip your toes in the campaign of presidential candidates, this kind of shit will come out. Oprah was not able to dig this up when it was hinted to her.

Who would do such a thing? Some jealous member of their church, the democrats, the republicans...the list is endless.

Oprah's show is the reason the police report exists in the first place. They were set to appear on her show in 2006 but were tipped off by someone to the abuse, which prompted them not to air anything. The people involved then reported it to an abuse hotline which is how the police became involved. The report was legally requested and because Josh was 18 at the time the report was taken (re,member the abuse happened three years prior), it was not sealed and names of minors are redacted. It was released by the tabloid media because the Duggars make a living out of brandishing their brand of family values and demonizing gays/transgenders as child predators.

Anonymous wrote:What Josh did was not something unnatural. In a normal household, he would have been making out with classmates behind the lockers or bleachers. Also, while his behavior was inappropriate, it was in no way that of a rapist. He himself was a hormonal teen.

If Josh had groped your 5 year old daughter under her clothes you would be singing a different tune. A 15 year old teenager does not fondle 5 year olds, he also does not go to his sister's room and touch them while they sleep.

Anonymous wrote:
I feel no moral outrage for the groping.

I can't even...

I think two separate issues are getting confused here:
1) Was this molestation and/or a criminal act?
2) Did the parents handle it properly?

I could go back and forth on (1) because of the age josh was at the time and his likely level of ignorance given his upbringing. But (2) is clear as day to me. No, the parents did NOT do the right things here. They didn't do ANYTHING until the second or third time he confessed doing something. HELLO? The *first* time you hear anything, you aggressively ensure that this can't happen again. You protect your children and you immediately seek treatment for the kid who inappropriately touched. Not at some Christian camp. With a real doctor. You take the kid to the pediatrician, tell the pediatrician about it and ask him/her what to do. And then you DO THAT. He was a minor. They knew he wasn't going to jail.
It seems to me they were much more concerned about protecting Josh than protecting their other children (their daughters). I can't help but suspect that this is because their religion/culture values men so much more than women.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The first time I saw the Duggars, I was more interested in knowing how they managed to run the household with so many kids. That was the extent of my interest. I found the mom and dad very weird.

Having said that, I feel that the reports got released mainly because the family started to become associated with Republican campaigning.Once you dip your toes in the campaign of presidential candidates, this kind of shit will come out. Oprah was not able to dig this up when it was hinted to her.

Who would do such a thing? Some jealous member of their church, the democrats, the republicans...the list is endless.

Oprah's show is the reason the police report exists in the first place. They were set to appear on her show in 2006 but were tipped off by someone to the abuse, which prompted them not to air anything. The people involved then reported it to an abuse hotline which is how the police became involved. The report was legally requested and because Josh was 18 at the time the report was taken (re,member the abuse happened three years prior), it was not sealed and names of minors are redacted. It was released by the tabloid media because the Duggars make a living out of brandishing their brand of family values and demonizing gays/transgenders as child predators.

Anonymous wrote:What Josh did was not something unnatural. In a normal household, he would have been making out with classmates behind the lockers or bleachers. Also, while his behavior was inappropriate, it was in no way that of a rapist. He himself was a hormonal teen.

If Josh had groped your 5 year old daughter under her clothes you would be singing a different tune. A 15 year old teenager does not fondle 5 year olds, he also does not go to his sister's room and touch them while they sleep.

Anonymous wrote:
I feel no moral outrage for the groping.

I can't even...

I think two separate issues are getting confused here:
1) Was this molestation and/or a criminal act?
2) Did the parents handle it properly?

I could go back and forth on (1) because of the age josh was at the time and his likely level of ignorance given his upbringing. But (2) is clear as day to me. No, the parents did NOT do the right things here. They didn't do ANYTHING until the second or third time he confessed doing something. HELLO? The *first* time you hear anything, you aggressively ensure that this can't happen again. You protect your children and you immediately seek treatment for the kid who inappropriately touched. Not at some Christian camp. With a real doctor. You take the kid to the pediatrician, tell the pediatrician about it and ask him/her what to do. And then you DO THAT. He was a minor. They knew he wasn't going to jail.
It seems to me they were much more concerned about protecting Josh than protecting their other children (their daughters). I can't help but suspect that this is because their religion/culture values men so much more than women.

And one more thing -- if I found out that my 14 year old son was touching a 4-5 year old sister, one of the major things I'd be wondering is whether my 14 year old son had been subject to some abuse himself. Because usually, abusers have been abused. I would want to look into that possibility as closely as possible so that I could get him the treatment he needs. You don't have to vilify the 14 year old in order to take this seriously. They just didn't take it seriously.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:A real journalist (not Megyn) would have walked through the whole timeline of events from beginning to end. No mention of the Oprah show, the letter in the book...?

She did. Right at the beginning of the interview she went through the whole timeline of events.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A real journalist (not Megyn) would have walked through the whole timeline of events from beginning to end. No mention of the Oprah show, the letter in the book...?

She did. Right at the beginning of the interview she went through the whole timeline of events.

You are correct that she mentioned it in the timeline. I don't think she ever asked the Duggars about this, though.

[Anonymous]

I don't remember Megyn mentioning the Oprah call to Arkansas protective services, the letter in the book, the girls reporting the molestation to Jim Bob, the "construction" therapy. This is all in the police report. Did she go through the police report timeline? I don't remember.